Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by DarkKnicks:

Posted by TMS:

awesome deal for MEM imo... they unload Pau's contract & get 3 1st round calibre guys + cap relief w/Kwame's expiring... Kobe's probably happy for now but he'll start bitching about a trade again just as soon as Pau goes down to another injury.

They get 2 1st round picks which will be 25/30, which is nothing to celebrate. I see it as a typical Clippers/Hawks of 5 years ago. It might work for them, but it seems to me that they got very little for Gasol.

personally i think Gasol's very overrated on these forums... he's not a strong defender in the paint & he's injured half the time... for an 18 & 8 player getting back 3 1st round picks & cap flexibility is well worth it from the Grizzlies' perspective.

Gasol has never had the heart to be a franchise player, but he'll be a nice component on a good team. I guess the question is, were the Grizz better of taking a bunch of low picks or trying to get one high pick, a route I think they could have gone. Gasol is def worth a high pick IMO.

no doubt he'll be a nice component for that team, but how durable will he be to warrant that monster contract of his is the question for me... i'm pretty sure the Lakers are gonna reap benefits out of this deal in the immediate future, but whether they win a title because of it it doubtful for me... i think the Grizz made a great deal cuz they were going nowhere fast w/Gasol as their franchise guy... they needed to rebuild & Crittendon & 2 1st round picks is a good way to help them accomplish that IMHO... there's plenty of good talent available late in the draft, as we've seen over & over again every year the draft is held... it all depends on how they use those picks obviously, but i think they stand to really benefit nicely from this trade.

I don't understand. This has to be proof that teams hate the Knicks. Pau for trash??? That's basically what just happen. They traded a 20ish pick in Crittenton, two 24 or later picks in 09 AND 2010, plus an expiring???

SMH.................

This has david the don stern written all over it.

1ST MCHALE hooks up ainge in boston(ex-team) then stern demands kobe gets help so lakers and Boston can boost and give the nba a shot in the arm by playing in the finals coact to coast.

Who writes this stuff ?

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Well now I'm not gonna buy any of the stuff from Kobe supporters about him just having too weak a support staff. Now he should be able to show me that he really is the best player in the game. Does he make Gasol better (like the best player should). Does his team beat the other top teams?

who in your opinion is the best player in the game? just curious.

I'd say KG, Lebron, Duncan, and Dwight are the top 4 but I've gone back and forth as to the specific rankings among them. I haven't really decided for sure. Nash is close but he's not good enough on D to make it to that list. I'd rank him 5th in the league.

Posted by martin:

Posted by playa2:

This has david the don stern written all over it.

1ST MCHALE hooks up ainge in boston(ex-team) then stern demands kobe gets help so lakers and Boston can boost and give the nba a shot in the arm by playing in the finals coact to coast.

Who writes this stuff ?

when does he help NY?

I think that's the joke.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Well now I'm not gonna buy any of the stuff from Kobe supporters about him just having too weak a support staff. Now he should be able to show me that he really is the best player in the game. Does he make Gasol better (like the best player should). Does his team beat the other top teams?

who in your opinion is the best player in the game? just curious.

I'd say KG, Lebron, Duncan, and Dwight are the top 4 but I've gone back and forth as to the specific rankings among them. I haven't really decided for sure. Nash is close but he's not good enough on D to make it to that list. I'd rank him 5th in the league.

other than Duncan how exactly have any of the other guys proven to you that they make their teammates better while Kobe doesn't? Kobe's got 3 rings & has made plenty of big shots in the postseason that helped his team win those championships... what has KG ever done? Dwight hasn't even gotten there... Nash & Lebron have definitely helped their teams improve & have stepped up in the playoffs, but they both still don't have any rings to show for it... i just have a hard time drawing where u make your distinctions here... i think it's pretty crazy for anyone to talk about the best players in the NBA & not even mention Kobe's name in the top 5... yeah, Kobe played alongside Shaq to get those championships, but you could easily say the same thing about Shaq playing alongside Kobe... it's impossible to just assume that Lebron or 1 of those other guys you just mentioned would've won multiple championships if they'd had Shaq playing with them in his prime... there's so many different factors & luck considerations to figure into winning a title, to take anything away from Kobe for having won rings is mindboggling to me... the guy is 1 of the alltime greats in this game, plain & simple.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Well now I'm not gonna buy any of the stuff from Kobe supporters about him just having too weak a support staff. Now he should be able to show me that he really is the best player in the game. Does he make Gasol better (like the best player should). Does his team beat the other top teams?

who in your opinion is the best player in the game? just curious.

I'd say KG, Lebron, Duncan, and Dwight are the top 4 but I've gone back and forth as to the specific rankings among them. I haven't really decided for sure. Nash is close but he's not good enough on D to make it to that list. I'd rank him 5th in the league.

other than Duncan how exactly have any of the other guys proven to you that they make their teammates better while Kobe doesn't? Kobe's got 3 rings & has made plenty of big shots in the postseason that helped his team win those championships... what has KG ever done? Dwight hasn't even gotten there... Nash & Lebron have definitely helped their teams improve & have stepped up in the playoffs, but they both still don't have any rings to show for it... i just have a hard time drawing where u make your distinctions here... i think it's pretty crazy for anyone to talk about the best players in the NBA & not even mention Kobe's name in the top 5... yeah, Kobe played alongside Shaq to get those championships, but you could easily say the same thing about Shaq playing alongside Kobe... it's impossible to just assume that Lebron or 1 of those other guys you just mentioned would've won multiple championships if they'd had Shaq playing with them in his prime... there's so many different factors & luck considerations to figure into winning a title, to take anything away from Kobe for having won rings is mindboggling to me... the guy is 1 of the alltime greats in this game, plain & simple.

We're surely not gonna agree. Let's just say that Kobe's got a VERY good frontcourt all with many prime years left. If he's truly the best player in the game, he should win at least one (I think more than one if he's the best player) championship with them. No excuses.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Well now I'm not gonna buy any of the stuff from Kobe supporters about him just having too weak a support staff. Now he should be able to show me that he really is the best player in the game. Does he make Gasol better (like the best player should). Does his team beat the other top teams?

who in your opinion is the best player in the game? just curious.

I'd say KG, Lebron, Duncan, and Dwight are the top 4 but I've gone back and forth as to the specific rankings among them. I haven't really decided for sure. Nash is close but he's not good enough on D to make it to that list. I'd rank him 5th in the league.

other than Duncan how exactly have any of the other guys proven to you that they make their teammates better while Kobe doesn't? Kobe's got 3 rings & has made plenty of big shots in the postseason that helped his team win those championships... what has KG ever done? Dwight hasn't even gotten there... Nash & Lebron have definitely helped their teams improve & have stepped up in the playoffs, but they both still don't have any rings to show for it... i just have a hard time drawing where u make your distinctions here... i think it's pretty crazy for anyone to talk about the best players in the NBA & not even mention Kobe's name in the top 5... yeah, Kobe played alongside Shaq to get those championships, but you could easily say the same thing about Shaq playing alongside Kobe... it's impossible to just assume that Lebron or 1 of those other guys you just mentioned would've won multiple championships if they'd had Shaq playing with them in his prime... there's so many different factors & luck considerations to figure into winning a title, to take anything away from Kobe for having won rings is mindboggling to me... the guy is 1 of the alltime greats in this game, plain & simple.

We're surely not gonna agree. Let's just say that Kobe's got a VERY good frontcourt all with many prime years left. If he's truly the best player in the game, he should win at least one (I think more than one if he's the best player) championship with them. No excuses.

Is it your assumption that each year the championship is won by the best player in the league?

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Well now I'm not gonna buy any of the stuff from Kobe supporters about him just having too weak a support staff. Now he should be able to show me that he really is the best player in the game. Does he make Gasol better (like the best player should). Does his team beat the other top teams?

who in your opinion is the best player in the game? just curious.

I'd say KG, Lebron, Duncan, and Dwight are the top 4 but I've gone back and forth as to the specific rankings among them. I haven't really decided for sure. Nash is close but he's not good enough on D to make it to that list. I'd rank him 5th in the league.

other than Duncan how exactly have any of the other guys proven to you that they make their teammates better while Kobe doesn't? Kobe's got 3 rings & has made plenty of big shots in the postseason that helped his team win those championships... what has KG ever done? Dwight hasn't even gotten there... Nash & Lebron have definitely helped their teams improve & have stepped up in the playoffs, but they both still don't have any rings to show for it... i just have a hard time drawing where u make your distinctions here... i think it's pretty crazy for anyone to talk about the best players in the NBA & not even mention Kobe's name in the top 5... yeah, Kobe played alongside Shaq to get those championships, but you could easily say the same thing about Shaq playing alongside Kobe... it's impossible to just assume that Lebron or 1 of those other guys you just mentioned would've won multiple championships if they'd had Shaq playing with them in his prime... there's so many different factors & luck considerations to figure into winning a title, to take anything away from Kobe for having won rings is mindboggling to me... the guy is 1 of the alltime greats in this game, plain & simple.

We're surely not gonna agree. Let's just say that Kobe's got a VERY good frontcourt all with many prime years left. If he's truly the best player in the game, he should win at least one (I think more than one if he's the best player) championship with them. No excuses.

Is it your assumption that each year the championship is won by the best player in the league?

No. My assumption is that if you're the best player in the league and you have a better front-court than any other superstar guard, you should win at least one championship over 5 to 8 years (what I estimate Kobe has left). And if everyone stays health, you should at least get pretty far in the playoffs in most of the other seasons. If we put KG with the best back-court among the franchise-level PFs, I'd hold him to that same standard--probably even a higher standard actually.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 02-02-2008 6:27 PM]

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by Bonn1997:

We're surely not gonna agree. Let's just say that Kobe's got a VERY good frontcourt all with many prime years left. If he's truly the best player in the game, he should win at least one (I think more than one if he's the best player) championship with them. No excuses.
*

Is it your assumption that each year the championship is won by the best player in the league?

No. My assumption is that if you're the best player in the league and you have a better front-court than any other superstar guard, you should win at least one championship over 5 to 8 years (what I estimate Kobe has left). And if everyone stays health, you should at least get pretty far in the playoffs in most of the other seasons. If we put KG with the best back-court among the franchise-level PFs, I'd hold him to that same standard--probably even a higher standard actually.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 02-02-2008 6:27 PM]

I'm not here to argue Kobe is "the best" player in the game, and I'm not sure there even i such a thing, but nor do I agree with your standards for determination. Nor am I convinced that LA's frontcourt is as good as you claim. Gasol is decent but not spectacular. Bynum is still relatively raw, and I never considered Odom elite or a good fit with Kobe. So do those three amount to a better frontcourt than one that does include elite players, like San Antonio or Boston?

That's not quite what I was claiming. I said Kobe has the best front-court *among teams whose best player is in the back-court.* In other words, if you invest your assets to build around one front-court player (like Duncan), then you probably are going to have a better front-court than the Lakers have. But among the teams that chose to build around a guard, I don't think any have given that guard a better starting front-court than the Lakers have now given Kobe.

And if you have guys like KG and Duncan ranked higher than Kobe, and they have some pretty complete teams to play with themselves, does every year that they fail to win a championship disprove your rankings of them?

No, not every year, but maybe any 5 to 8 years (see previous post) in which they failed to win any championships despite having strong support casts would disprove my rankings, and then I'd readily admit I was wrong. Any consecutive seasons of poor playoff showings (1st or 2nd round exits or earlier) I think would fairly disprove my rankings too. If you're health, if you have a very strong support cast, and if you claim to be great, eventually you've gotta produce wins in the playoffs.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:
If we put KG with the best back-court among the franchise-level PFs, I'd hold him to that same standard--probably even a higher standard actually.

KG has 2 of the better teammates among franchise level players in Pierce & Allen right now... under your system of determination he should have no excuse not to win multiple championships in the next few years either.

At least one championship in about a 5 to 8 year stretch assuming all players stay healthy. You might be shocked but I'm actually not going to use a different standard for different players.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 02-02-2008 8:05 PM]