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nichols asked to be cut?
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Andrew
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10/25/2007  11:27 AM
This just in: KNICKS WAIVE JORDAN, NICHOLS & WALKER
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islesfan
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10/25/2007  11:28 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Masterplan:
if his agent thinks he gets his client drafted AND gets a cut of a heftier european salary, maybe he doesn't disclose all to the kid.

plausible, yes?

No.

Its speculation, but speculation based on common sense. I simply don’t find it plausible that an agent would make a deal to send a player to Europe, then spring that deal on his client expecting him to be ok with that.

There simply had to be some discussion between the two on the matter beforehand.

And Andrew, I don’t think it rare for second rounders to go to Europe. I don’t have the numbers for you, sorry. I think the practice will only increase now that NBDL players count on your roster.

What makes you think there was an actual deal? Do you think maybe the agent spoke out of turn and said they would consider it and Isiah took that and is making is out to look as if they agreed to it?

What is the advantage to the player to accept going to Europe?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
oohah
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10/25/2007  11:31 AM
Posted by Andrew:

Can anyone list any 2nd round picks that have decided to go to Europe at the request of the drafting team so their rights could be retainied?

I wouldn't know how to find the info on how many picks get stashed in Europe, but I know it happens.

Another good question is: How many guys picked 50 or later get cut as rookies?

oohah

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BasketballJones
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10/25/2007  11:33 AM
Posted by Andrew:

This just in: KNICKS WAIVE JORDAN, NICHOLS & WALKER


Not Walker Russell Jr. ?!? WTF is Isiah thinking?
https:// It's not so hard.
RemBee76
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10/25/2007  11:33 AM
Posted by eViL:
I think you overestimate the respect that these agents have for their clients.

We are cool, evil, but that’s an absurd statement. Agents are hired by the players, and can be fired by the players. Any agent that openly disrespects his client is an agent that doesn't have any clients.

No one is saying these guys are angels and don't ultimately work in their own self-interest. But it’s simply fantasy to think an agent would pursue the potentially risky move of signing a player in Europe without some go-ahead from that player.
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Masterplan
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10/25/2007  11:35 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Masterplan:
if his agent thinks he gets his client drafted AND gets a cut of a heftier european salary, maybe he doesn't disclose all to the kid.

plausible, yes?

No.

Its speculation, but speculation based on common sense. I simply don’t find it plausible that an agent would make a deal to send a player to Europe, then spring that deal on his client expecting him to be ok with that.

There simply had to be some discussion between the two on the matter beforehand.

come on, man. you absolutely don't believe an agent could have made the handshake agreement with isiah (one that he figured would net him more money or whatever), agent keeps demetris in the dark for most of the summer and then glossed it over in meetings? something like, "not looking good, demetris. i know you have your heart set on playing in the NBA, but as a late 2nd rounder you *may have to* play in europe for the year." truth comes out later and he fires the guy. there are dozens of ways it could have happened.

my scenario is no less plausible than thinking the buzz of being #54 in the draft and hitting some summer league jumpers went to nichols' head. you can spare me your lectures on common sense.
islesfan
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10/25/2007  11:36 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by islesfan:

As for the agent, why exactly would Nichols agree to give up a year of NBA eligibility to go to Europe on the hope that the Knicks would give him a guaranteed contract after that? All months before training camp would even start? Just to help out the Knicks and Isiah? That doesn't make any sense but some people will believe it and suggest that others are stupid if they don't.

Yeah, why help out the team that drafted you while gainig valuable experience playing in a skilled league when you otherwise would have been sitting on the bench all season.

That would be just crazy.

"Help out the team that drafted you"? That's a bit too pollyannish, even for you.

We're also supposed to believe that he agreed to this at the draft. So on the night that he's realizing his dream of being drafted in the NBA and playing in that league, he agrees to play in Europe this year just to help out the Knicks so they can retain his rights? Yeah, that's believable.

You don't think Nichols would have gained even more valuable experience by playing against NBA players everyday in practice and getting used to life in the NBA? I sure as hell do.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Andrew
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10/25/2007  11:36 AM
I think this is a plausible scenerio.

Agent: Will you goto Europe?

DN: Sure, if I can't make it in the NBA.

Agent to Knicks: Yup, he will goto Europe.

Not lying, but not completely telling the truth either.
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BasketballJones
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10/25/2007  11:36 AM
Posted by Andrew:

I think this is a plausible scenerio.

Agent: Will you goto Europe?

DN: Sure, if I can't make it in the NBA.

Agent to Knicks: Yup, he will goto Europe.

Not lying, but not completely telling the truth either.

What was the scenario with Walker Russell Jr.'s agent?
https:// It's not so hard.
Andrew
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10/25/2007  11:38 AM
I thought Walker Russell was only on the roster as a favor.
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Masterplan
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10/25/2007  11:38 AM
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by Andrew:

Can anyone list any 2nd round picks that have decided to go to Europe at the request of the drafting team so their rights could be retainied?

Can anyone name at least 10 2nd round pics that were actually the "real deal"

Monta Ellis
Ryan Gomes
Anderson Varejao
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Steve Blake
Carlos Boozer
Gilbert Arenas
Mehmet Okur
Brian Scalabrine

isles, i said real deal.

I only see gilbert arenas, boozer and okur. The others are simply role players.

did you see my responses?

and why knock role players? even if d-nice is a role player he'd be worth keeping around. i don't think he has the inflated ego you think he does.
Michael6835
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10/25/2007  11:39 AM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by Masterplan:
if his agent thinks he gets his client drafted AND gets a cut of a heftier european salary, maybe he doesn't disclose all to the kid.

plausible, yes?

No.

Its speculation, but speculation based on common sense. I simply don’t find it plausible that an agent would make a deal to send a player to Europe, then spring that deal on his client expecting him to be ok with that.

There simply had to be some discussion between the two on the matter beforehand.

And Andrew, I don’t think it rare for second rounders to go to Europe. I don’t have the numbers for you, sorry. I think the practice will only increase now that NBDL players count on your roster.

I think you overestimate the respect that these agents have for their clients. These agents probably look at guys like DNic as pawns. They expect these kids to just follow along with whatever "professional" advice their agent gives them. Is it far-fetched that some slick agent with a law degree would expect his 20 year old, fresh out of school, never dealt with real negotiations, athlete client to accept his advice and go to Europe? I think it's perfectly plausible that this agent didn't respect DNic at all and, if anything, the agent was probably trying to develop his own relationship with Isiah and the Knicks because it could serve him well in the future. Agents are not angels.

Seriously people, apply some common sense logic. Why would someone make arrangements on behalf of someone else if they didn't agree with it to begin with. There is nothing to gain, he is not making any money until he gets the player signed to a deal. C'mon, I know all agents are not angels, but this just doesn't make sense. And why would the agent be trying to get in good with Thomas, what will that give him. Thomas is literally holding on by a thread, he has one foot out the door and he has lost what little clout he had to begin with. It's easier to believe that Nichols agreed to go to Europe, than to believe that his agent played him
M
islesfan
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10/25/2007  11:39 AM
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by Andrew:

Can anyone list any 2nd round picks that have decided to go to Europe at the request of the drafting team so their rights could be retainied?

Can anyone name at least 10 2nd round pics that were actually the "real deal"

Monta Ellis
Ryan Gomes
Anderson Varejao
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Steve Blake
Carlos Boozer
Gilbert Arenas
Mehmet Okur
Brian Scalabrine

isles, i said real deal.

I only see gilbert arenas, boozer and okur. The others are simply role players.

So unless you're an all star, you're useless?

The others are good players and solid role players. But I guess you think the Knicks are so good that they don't need players like that.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
BasketballJones
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10/25/2007  11:40 AM
Posted by Andrew:

I thought Walker Russell was only on the roster as a favor.

Yeah, I think his dad works for the team.
https:// It's not so hard.
eViL
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10/25/2007  11:50 AM
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by eViL:
I think you overestimate the respect that these agents have for their clients.

We are cool, evil, but that’s an absurd statement. Agents are hired by the players, and can be fired by the players. Any agent that openly disrespects his client is an agent that doesn't have any clients.

No one is saying these guys are angels and don't ultimately work in their own self-interest. But it’s simply fantasy to think an agent would pursue the potentially risky move of signing a player in Europe without some go-ahead from that player.

No doubt, we're cool. I just think that an agent doesn't necessarily value his 2nd round pick clients as much as he values an ongoing relationship with a GM / Basketball team. Ultimately, this guy screwed up and in the end he got fired. He might have screwed himself out of future jobs as well. But I don't think it's far-fetched that he would substitute his client's will for his own in an act of "Agent knows best" figuring that with his superior knowledge and experience he'd be able to get his client to play along. Something along the lines of, "Hey man, you're gonna end up in Europe regardless. Wouldn't you rather be back in NY next year where the city is great and maybe we can get you a role on the team after they clear up some spots? Plus, if you can crack the rotation in a year or two and make some noise -- there could be endorsements coming."

[Edited by - eViL on 10-25-2007 11:53 AM]
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islesfan
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10/25/2007  11:52 AM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by RemBee76:
Posted by eViL:
I think you overestimate the respect that these agents have for their clients.

We are cool, evil, but that’s an absurd statement. Agents are hired by the players, and can be fired by the players. Any agent that openly disrespects his client is an agent that doesn't have any clients.

No one is saying these guys are angels and don't ultimately work in their own self-interest. But it’s simply fantasy to think an agent would pursue the potentially risky move of signing a player in Europe without some go-ahead from that player.

No doubt, we're cool. I just think that an agent doesn't necessarily value his 2nd round pick clients as much as he values an ongoing relationship with a GM / Basketball team. Ultimately, this guy screwed up and in the end he got fired. He might have screwed himself out of future jobs as well. But I don't it's far-fetched that he would substitute his client's will for his own in an act of "Agent knows best".

Don't kid yourself. He hates you and wants you off this board because you're not completely happy with everything associated with the Knicks.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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10/25/2007  11:54 AM
rembee emailed me and called evil an idiot.
evil emailed me and called rembee a dummy.

you guys are so totally not cool.
efw
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10/25/2007  11:56 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by Andrew:

Can anyone list any 2nd round picks that have decided to go to Europe at the request of the drafting team so their rights could be retainied?

Can anyone name at least 10 2nd round pics that were actually the "real deal"

Monta Ellis
Ryan Gomes
Anderson Varejao
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Steve Blake
Carlos Boozer
Gilbert Arenas
Mehmet Okur
Brian Scalabrine

isles, i said real deal.

I only see gilbert arenas, boozer and okur. The others are simply role players.

So unless you're an all star, you're useless?

The others are good players and solid role players. But I guess you think the Knicks are so good that they don't need players like that.


Our whole roster is filled with those kinds of players. We just don't have a superstar.
eViL
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10/25/2007  11:57 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Don't kid yourself. He hates you and wants you off this board because you're not completely happy with everything associated with the Knicks.

Posted by djsunyc:

rembee emailed me and called evil an idiot.
evil emailed me and called rembee a dummy.

you guys are so totally not cool.

HAHA!! This board is so awesome that when two people respectfully disagree. The crew comes in and makes sure that the disagreement becomes a little more entertaining.

F YOU REMBEE!!! I'M SICK OF THE ARGUING!!! IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME THEN DON'T READ OR RESPOND TO MY POSTS AND I WON'T READ OR RESPOND TO YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!



[Edited by - eViL on 10-25-2007 11:58 AM]
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islesfan
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10/25/2007  11:58 AM
Posted by efw:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by Andrew:

Can anyone list any 2nd round picks that have decided to go to Europe at the request of the drafting team so their rights could be retainied?

Can anyone name at least 10 2nd round pics that were actually the "real deal"

Monta Ellis
Ryan Gomes
Anderson Varejao
Jason Kapono
Luke Walton
Steve Blake
Carlos Boozer
Gilbert Arenas
Mehmet Okur
Brian Scalabrine

isles, i said real deal.

I only see gilbert arenas, boozer and okur. The others are simply role players.

So unless you're an all star, you're useless?

The others are good players and solid role players. But I guess you think the Knicks are so good that they don't need players like that.


Our whole roster is filled with those kinds of players. We just don't have a superstar.

What role player on the Knicks has the size and shooting ability that Nichols has?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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