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Channing Frye Impressing Blazers
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misterearl
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8/13/2007  11:36 PM
Line of The Day

"Zach and curry will bust his ass."

- enyspree
once a knick always a knick
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TMS
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8/13/2007  11:41 PM
let's trade Zach Randolph for him.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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8/13/2007  11:54 PM
ny press is an adversary to everybody. not just isiah and the knicks. they try to create drama at every turn ("the loneliest yankee" from last september).

so what should any gm/coach do in this instance?

when i talk about ny fans, i talk about all fans of all sports teams here, not just knicks fans.

what the media prints is the only way fans can get insight for their team. and even IF the product is producing, it's still through the media can a fan have a closer connection to a team.

it's always about results but we all know that there's more to it. nobody is asking for an isiah blueprint press conference, but nobody wants to hear about getaway games either. it's a delicate balance but it's one in where isiah is not doing a good job based purely on fan reaction to the team. there's alot of people that like the team and there's alot of people that don't. the fanbase has never been this polarized.

this ain't some deep sh t. this ain't about trying to understand the corporate policy of the team and how it operates. this is about a fan and their team. we can take this discussion to many levels but at the core, i'm taking the position of the general fanbase and how it reacts which makes up the majority. they read the papers and they react accordingly. if one writer says player A and player B don't like each other, 75% of the fanbase will believe it. and expecting that fanbase to change is not in the cards. and alot of posters here look down on that group which i think makes them look really bad. dolan/isiah have to recognize that and play by the media rules b/c it's obvious what they're doing is not working.

i can ignore them. you can ignore them. but we are in the big time minority. you're a new yorker, you know how it works here. for 15+ years, we never really heard excuses yet those knicks teams got grilled ALOT. we've heard alot of excuses over the past 2 years...what else would be expected?

and isiah already has some negative press in his career. so he came in walking on egg shells already. dolan has to take these things into account before hiring these guys.
tkf
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8/14/2007  12:03 AM
Posted by misterearl:

tkf - I enjoy reading your work as well.

Show me a coach or GM who bends with the wind to suit the prevalent opinion of the moment, and I'll show you a dude who will last about 48 hours in New York City.

Isiah knows the media operates not as allies but also as adversaries. Their mission is to create the headlines that sell the newspapers. His mission is to create an environment where his players can focus, while at the same time nurturing, teaching and protecting his players from distractions and dissension. Notice the conflict?

It is naive for people who desire that Zeke lay out some franchise blueprint for public scrutiny via the wolfpack of writers whose job it is to translate quotes in the context of their agenda of sensationalism. Journalism is dead.

The beat writers want stories to make deadlines as fast as possible. Ergo, there is little analysis beyond the standard repetitive fare. Frye is a bust? Okayfine. Good Riddance.

Then again, Channing Frye could develop as quickly in Portland as Travor Ariza in Orlando, Matt Carroll in Charlotte or Matt Barnes in Golden State. Whether Frye would have blossomed in New York, we will never know.

It ain't been a new school kinda party until Isiah gradually convinced Dolan he knew how to evaluate talent and (something Larry Brown didn't understand) knew how to gain the trust of borderline generation Xers like David Lee, Mardy Collins, Renaldo, Randolph Morris, Demetris and the next Mayor - Wilson Chandler.

Isiah may not hold all the answers but the more I watched the young dudes go about their business, without any clowning or celebration, in Las Vegas, the more I liked them.

How much longer are we willing to (cough) "suffer" and wait for them to become a team?

GOOD points. I really have no problem with Isiah. I think to some people, he comes off as sneaky, spiteful, not genuine. I think every succesful GM has some of that in their blood, balancing the media, the fans and the players is tough and as you said Isiah understands the media, he has been dealing with them in the spotlight since his days as a player, he is no fool. All I ask for as a fan is a chance to win, if not now, then show me a plan, and so far, Isiah has said we would be younger and more athletic, and so far that has been accomplished, the next step for me is to see some cohesion and victories. While people has bashed Isiah on this site and in the media, as you have mentioned the emergence of guys like lee, balk, collins and curry is a testament to Isiah doing something right, NY is not for everyone, and maybe it wasn't for frye, and i think frye will be a good player, but for people to say Isiah put him in a position to fail is the same regurgitated baseless crap that is circulated along with the whirlwind of media BS that really makes me wonder about some fans and media people.

As you said, Isiah has come in and changed the culture, we see a team with guys who seem to like each other and will fight for one another, guys who will play with that chip on their shoulders and handle their business like men, and I am referring to guys like lee, balkman, collins, Q to name a few, but it seems that people will take the likes of nates antics and make them indicative of what things are under Isiah and that is unfair. Again with all this young talent and high paid veterans, where will this lead us? who knows, but I like what we have right now..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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8/14/2007  12:11 AM
Posted by tkf:

As you said, Isiah has come in and changed the culture, we see a team with guys who seem to like each other and will fight for one another, guys who will play with that chip on their shoulders and handle their business like men, and I am referring to guys like lee, balkman, collins, Q to name a few, but it seems that people will take the likes of nates antics and make them indicative of what things are under Isiah and that is unfair. Again with all this young talent and high paid veterans, where will this lead us? who knows, but I like what we have right now..

was there in house fighting before isiah came here? was there quit from the roster of the 2002/2003 season? what bad culture did isiah have to change? please explain.
4949
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8/14/2007  5:49 AM
Posted by sebstar:

Thread starter = utterly predicable, but I will add my two cents...The Channing Frye story leads credence to the idea that rebuilding in NY is an impossibility because of the lack of patience among fans, media, and management.

Channing Frye had monster first half in his rookie season, and an overall strong one. He comes back and has a subpar sophomore campaign and he is rediculed, villified, and eventually jettisoned to the delight of fans. We luv to watch our youngsters develop [sarcasm].

This is still big man with a boat load of potential. It was funny that when it came to analyzing the Randolph trade, Frye's remaining potential was rarely included in the convo. It was like its a foregone conclusion that he is a bust.

Could still very well turn out to be one, but NY sure as hell aint gonna stick around and wait to find out.

Your definately right about NY being impatient. Frye's confidence and career will depend on his knee ultimately. I don't expect a bust out season for him, because of the knee thing. If anytihng, he'll get as far as his first seasons stats for starters. The new team, city will help boost his confidence again. Take into consideration that his games increased (72) as well as his minutes, in which he averaged over two mintues extra per game last year. But the numbers definately went down, so it was a confidence thing due to the knee injury. Had' to be! Unless he has another major injury, he'll do well overall. But he's not ours anymore, so.....
I'll never trust this' team again.
EnySpree
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8/14/2007  5:59 AM
The bad culture was Scott layden and his reign of blunder. Anybody coming in after that guy was gonna be sent to hell. Kinda like when mayor dinkins followed Koch. Isiah knew that when he took the job.

I think isiah did the beat he could to change the roster to compete with the rest of the league. His mistake was broadcasting propaganda to the public with his win now, build on the fly, quick offense, new earl and Clyde, etc. Some can see where he's coming from and just disregard it, but not everyone is like me. In fact, 90% of the fans aren't like me. Isiah needs to stop teasing the monkeys if he doesn't want **** thrown at him.

Well isiah in my opinion has redeemed himself with his handling of the roster. There is not one bad move on the roster as of this date. His next move can keep the pace or totally screw up everything. That roster has to be trimmed sooner or later. I hope he makes the wise decision.
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4949
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8/14/2007  6:49 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

The bad culture was Scott layden and his reign of blunder. Anybody coming in after that guy was gonna be sent to hell. Kinda like when mayor dinkins followed Koch. Isiah knew that when he took the job.

I think isiah did the beat he could to change the roster to compete with the rest of the league. His mistake was broadcasting propaganda to the public with his win now, build on the fly, quick offense, new earl and Clyde, etc. Some can see where he's coming from and just disregard it, but not everyone is like me. In fact, 90% of the fans aren't like me. Isiah needs to stop teasing the monkeys if he doesn't want **** thrown at him.

Well isiah in my opinion has redeemed himself with his handling of the roster. There is not one bad move on the roster as of this date. His next move can keep the pace or totally screw up everything. That roster has to be trimmed sooner or later. I hope he makes the wise decision.

I agree that whoever came in for Layden, was going to get it. But the fact that Isiah has continued on, it appears, in the same fasion (feeding people propaganda) is confusing. I agree that the roster 'looks' good, but the question is, can this team 'live up to it's potential'? If they can, they can be great. But if they cannot and there's every reason to believe this, based on what we know, then there will always be questions. The questions need to be eliminated asap. Keep in mind, I'm basing my beliefs on what we already know and less on the potential at this point, because I can only be told about potential for only so long. I stuck with Isiah up until mid season and the reason I changed my mind on him was because after several years, I didn't think we were any better. As far as redeeming himself, that depends on what this roster does this next season. But this is my' take on it.

'Isiah needs to stop teasing the monkeys if he doesn't want **** thrown at him'. I liked that movie to, 'Cooley High'.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Marv
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8/14/2007  7:46 AM
some of these posts blaming frye's performance on the fans are really leaving me shaking my head. people really believe it is the fans' responsibility to determine how these guys perform? cheering consistently and somewhat inanely in the face of the team playing like crap is required if we want these guys to turn into good nba players????? wtf?????
misterearl
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8/14/2007  9:31 AM
The Answer Man Makes a Cameo

Q. djsu - was there in house fighting before isiah came here?

A. See Checketts wack VanGundy over dinner or Checketts faxing Riley, who thirsted for more power. In fighting is a New York Knicks tradition dating back to Holzman

Q. djsu - was there quit from the roster of the 2002/2003 season?

A. Quit is impossible to measure. All I know is that the Knicks tallest player was 6'9 and played center

Q. djsu - what bad culture did isiah have to change?

A. The culture of not having a basketball guy, a man who played the game at the highest level and who understood how to evaluate players at a fundamental level, in the board room with the suits.
once a knick always a knick
MS
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8/14/2007  9:40 AM
Earl in typical fashion it's the fans fault and booing was the fashionalbe thing to do. Isiah was sticking up for his players, your perception of what is actually going on is nonexistent....

Fans boo for one reason and thats when the misfits, and you can't call them anything else like Francis, Marbury, etc were out there dogging it not giving their all and the team was getting blown out game after game in the first quarter because a lack of effort and unity.....

Fans never boo Lee, they never boo balkman and rarley will you see a fan get on Q. Especially coming off his horrific season prior fans appreciated his heart, rebounding and defensive commitment. If your professional and leave it on the floor the fans won't boo.

And your naive to think people don't law out blueprints. There is a reason we have jefferies, rose, james, and a lot of other spare parts we don't need because when you do things without a plan, you change your plan constantly and that turns into a problem with contracts and the types of players you bring in.

Tim Thomas, Jalen Rose, Penny Hardaway, Marbury, Mo Taylor, Francis, Curry your dealing with a lot of question mark players, and players whose effort and commitment has been called into question. And when you think your smarter than everyone else you end up having to buy out your coach, fire a coach, make a coach step down and then spend close to 25 million getting rid of players you brought in so they don't destroy the lockeroom. And right now since you want to annoint players to office you should realize your taking minutes away from younger talented players with good attitude, work ethics, etc in favor of veterans with no mental toughness and fragile egos
misterearl
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8/14/2007  9:49 AM
Q. djsu - EXACTLY what every fan wanted here before that december day layden was fired. but why the love/hate relationship between the fans and the gm/coach?

A. djsu - this issue probably goes deeper than we have space for here. But allow to list the Top 11 Reasons For The Love/Hate Isiah Thomas Bug Up Peoples Azz, each of which can be a separate thread

1. Some people will never, ever forgive Isiah for the remarks on Larry Legend

2. The smiling, confident image of Zeke is too much for some to stomach, especially the media members who would love to wipe that smile off his face

3. The CBA Thing

4. He's from Chicago, played for Detriot and is considered an "outsider"

5. You never know what he is really thinking, which is exactly the way he played point guard. Ergo, "he's a liar"

5. He kissed Magic on national tv. Yucky.

6. The idea of an African American as President of anything still makes some people squirm

7. He gave too many guys too much money, even though it ain't his money

8. He hired and fired a bunch of head coaches, including the honorable Don Chaney, who Letterman cajoled a laugh about

9. He was Dolans second choice but Magic turned the gig down

10. He hasn't done the job quickly enough

11. Anucha

None of which have a damn thing to do with Knicks basketball or the fact that Wilson Chandler is the next Mayor

once a knick always a knick
BigC
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8/14/2007  9:50 AM
Posted by Marv:

some of these posts blaming frye's performance on the fans are really leaving me shaking my head. people really believe it is the fans' responsibility to determine how these guys perform? cheering consistently and somewhat inanely in the face of the team playing like crap is required if we want these guys to turn into good nba players????? wtf?????

The thing that is beyond funny is, Frye didn't even get 1/8 of the pressure the fans could have gave his butt. I thought fans were nice to him especially since it was clear to everyone that has normal vision and to Steven Wonder that Lee out played him. The fans were beyond nice to this Frye Guy. Had this been anyone else but Frye in the lineup they probably would have gotten their legs broke by the fans.
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misterearl
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8/14/2007  9:54 AM
MS - I cannot go around in cirlces with you over trivial points, My apology

When fans boo the Knicks the noise is not segregated to not include Balkman and Lee.

same as when the Knicks in 1970 were booed collectively for lack of effort

That team had the reserves to pick up the slack
once a knick always a knick
Marv
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8/14/2007  9:57 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Q. djsu - EXACTLY what every fan wanted here before that december day layden was fired. but why the love/hate relationship between the fans and the gm/coach?

A. djsu - this issue probably goes deeper than we have space for here. But allow to list the Top 11 Reasons For The Love/Hate Isiah Thomas Bug Up Peoples Azz, each of which can be a separate thread

1. Some people will never, ever forgive Isiah for the remarks on Larry Legend

2. The smiling, confident image of Zeke is too much for some to stomach, especially the media members who would love to wipe that smile off his face

3. The CBA Thing

4. He's from Chicago, played for Detriot and is considered an "outsider"

5. You never know what he is really thinking, which is exactly the way he played point guard. Ergo, "he's a liar"

5. He kissed Magic on national tv. Yucky.

6. The idea of an African American as President of anything still makes some people squirm

7. He gave too many guys too much money, even though it ain't his money

8. He hired and fired a bunch of head coaches, including the honorable Don Chaney, who Letterman cajoled a laugh about

9. He was Dolans second choice but Magic turned the gig down

10. He hasn't done the job quickly enough

11. Anucha

None of which have a damn thing to do with Knicks basketball or the fact that Wilson Chandler is the next Mayor

bull. the team's performed poorly, we've given up multiple lottery picks and our payroll is astronomical. end of story.
EnySpree
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8/14/2007  10:00 AM
Posted by BigC:
Posted by Marv:

some of these posts blaming frye's performance on the fans are really leaving me shaking my head. people really believe it is the fans' responsibility to determine how these guys perform? cheering consistently and somewhat inanely in the face of the team playing like crap is required if we want these guys to turn into good nba players????? wtf?????

The thing that is beyond funny is, Frye didn't even get 1/8 of the pressure the fans could have gave his butt. I thought fans were nice to him especially since it was clear to everyone that has normal vision and to Steven Wonder that Lee out played him. The fans were beyond nice to this Frye Guy. Had this been anyone else but Frye in the lineup they probably would have gotten their legs broke by the fans.

I have been pleading with the forum faithfull to join me on my back yard bully crusade on that "frye guy"(I like that.)

He is gone thank the saints!
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djsunyc
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8/14/2007  10:03 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by Marv:

some of these posts blaming frye's performance on the fans are really leaving me shaking my head. people really believe it is the fans' responsibility to determine how these guys perform? cheering consistently and somewhat inanely in the face of the team playing like crap is required if we want these guys to turn into good nba players????? wtf?????

The thing that is beyond funny is, Frye didn't even get 1/8 of the pressure the fans could have gave his butt. I thought fans were nice to him especially since it was clear to everyone that has normal vision and to Steven Wonder that Lee out played him. The fans were beyond nice to this Frye Guy. Had this been anyone else but Frye in the lineup they probably would have gotten their legs broke by the fans.

I have been pleading with the forum faithfull to join me on my back yard bully crusade on that "frye guy"(I like that.)

He is gone thank the saints!

you hate frye. you hate jeffries.

looks like you are directing your hate to all the light skin-ded players that may threaten your spot on the next polo sport cologne ad.
misterearl
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8/14/2007  10:07 AM
>>bull. the team's performed poorly, we've given up multiple lottery picks and our payroll is astronomical. end of story.

Marv - excellent
once a knick always a knick
Nalod
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8/14/2007  10:11 AM
Im gonna go on the wins/losses to judge Isiah as GM since he has been here.

Jack up the Payroll big time, have 5 coaches under your watch, including the two biggest bone head hires in Lenny and Larry.

And misjudgeing Marbury as some kind of leader of men.

The $5000 suits, Sex, Lies, and Videotape that surround him are all not important if your just judgeing on wins!

Team chemistry was all fine and good with Chaney and Layden. There were no stars and we were sub 40 wins with no buzz in the garden.

We went from a mature team that played hard to a youthier and more athletic team that makes a lot more money and does not play to win for a myriad of reasons.

The team is more interesting, but would another GM, including Layden done similar or better given the resources that were used to construct this team?

Will never know, but one thing is certain. Wins and losses!

Regarding defending Isiah for the 2007-08 season? Well, the games will speak for themselves. The last few years we have entered the season with higher expectations as the roster on paper kept improving with drafts and starphuch trades. So why should this year be different?

I'll watch, I'll root, and we'll see what happens.
EnySpree
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8/14/2007  10:15 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by Marv:

some of these posts blaming frye's performance on the fans are really leaving me shaking my head. people really believe it is the fans' responsibility to determine how these guys perform? cheering consistently and somewhat inanely in the face of the team playing like crap is required if we want these guys to turn into good nba players????? wtf?????

The thing that is beyond funny is, Frye didn't even get 1/8 of the pressure the fans could have gave his butt. I thought fans were nice to him especially since it was clear to everyone that has normal vision and to Steven Wonder that Lee out played him. The fans were beyond nice to this Frye Guy. Had this been anyone else but Frye in the lineup they probably would have gotten their legs broke by the fans.

I have been pleading with the forum faithfull to join me on my back yard bully crusade on that "frye guy"(I like that.)

He is gone thank the saints!

you hate frye. you hate jeffries.

looks like you are directing your hate to all the light skin-ded players that may threaten your spot on the next polo sport cologne ad.

You are certified maniac bro.
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