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FYI Dolan on Mike and the Mad Dog this afternoon
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BlueSeats
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2/17/2008  6:42 PM
Posted by iyamwutiam:

It is interesting that Dolan is attributing both Curry and Jeffries to LB. You can also throw in Jalen Rose> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2317958
""He's exactly what we need," Brown said before the game. "I think it's a no-brainer. I haven't seen a drop-off in his game. We don't have enough ball-handlers, guys that have experience back there."
< This cost the Knicks about 30M in terms of a buy-out.>

It is evident - finally - and I am sure may be more evident a few years down the road - that the moves of Marbury/Curry/Jeffries/J.Rose/Davis etc can not all be attributed to Isiah.

There is an interesting thread here: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183670

It is understandable - especially in the beginning -that Dolan, rabid fans etc - did not wish to under go the pain of rebuilding that Portland (atleast 3 seasons with less than 30 wins (average) that was necessary. Im NYC - it seems that regardless of the decade -- the only prority is to get 'in the playoffs' and not necessarily build a team that will be competitive and most importantly improving year after year on a foundation - this does not oly apply to the Knicks - see the Yankees, Mets/etc. Marbury was brought in as a lynchpin to fill the seats while the rebuilding was in process.

The multiple constraints of LB, Dolan, the ever impatient NY fans, and an always attacking media (to sell papers/tabloids-particulary the Post and the Dailey News) etc necessarily create a schizoid approach to rebuilding. No GM will have the luxury or carte blanche to suffer 3-4 straight losing seasons, have a line up of KVH, Lampje, McDyess, Eisley and Shandon Anderson for two to three years - so that you can draft players. Also the draft is a crap shoot - for every brandon roy - there is a jay williams or Randy Foye. for every La Marcus Aldridge - there is atleast one Tyrus Thomas. I know that had Derron Williams not worked out- the Utah Jazz would certainly be forever reminded of how they could have gotten Chris Paul.

I would like to see IT stay through out the extension but more importantly - be left alone from the impulses of Dolan,fans etc. There are a few things that are not disputed - :
1. That the knicks team -on paper and in terms of young players -have more talent than they had in 2004.
2. That by 2009 or 2010 they will definitely be under the cap and be in a position to make a run at Le Bron or soe legitimate superstar.
3. That since the 3 game win streak - they have played better (less blow outs, more chances of winning games etc). In the NFl - thi is generally the team that has a break out season the following year.

I expect to see a much better team -next year- and also I think a lot more players will not be so quick to raise their hand -if the question is asked - do we need Marbury!

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 02-17-2008 5:45 PM]

You are constantly trying to disempower Isiah by saying he's just an impotent pawn, and yet you want to keep him. You see him as responsible for all that is good with the team (which is little; and why ascribe any power to someone so impotent?) and all blame upon others. Many others: Dolan, Brown, Fans, media... essentially anybody but Isiah.

I believe the opposite is true: that Isiah had oodles of power for the reason that he told Dolan exactly what he wanted to hear - that he could do for NY what he witnessed Walsh do in Indiana, which was to rebuild the roster while staying competitive. They became on the the youngest teams in the league while continuing to make the playoffs.

So sure, all those pressures to win, and do so in NY, were on Isiah, but rather than attempt to educate Dolan on alternate realities he instead made Dolan believe he was the perfect man for the job.

There is one line of the interview that should tell you all you need to know about Isiah's power and allowance for decision making:

Despite the Knicks' 32 wins, Dolan praised Thomas and even said that he would never consider bringing in soon-to-be available Jerry West unless Thomas wants him.

Dolan was charmed and hoodwinked by Isiah's tales of conceit, and gave him far too much money and leeway to tool around with, but he expected eventual results which have yet to materialize. I think Dolan knows enough to terminate his command while you're still under his Svengali charms - if not terms of employment.
AUTOADVERT
iyamwutiam
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2/17/2008  7:20 PM
BlueSeats: I ask you which is more preposterous and infantile.
1. Believing Isiah has some 'voodoo' hold or blackmail on Dolan- which is why he is staying despite adding more payroll or giving up draft pickson nearly all of the 12 trades he has made and having 5 coaches in 4 years?
or
2. At times - he did what his boss wanted him to do - which may have been bringing in Marbury, Lenny Wilkens, Larry Brown and it didn't work out and his boss (Dolan) finally said - you know what -you have been a good soldier and taken the fall - for that you get an extension.

That is all I am saying. The radio interview also gives you a glimpse - tat when LB was around he had input. As for Jeffries - I am only stating what was quoted in the interview- but I would agree that Jeffries -may/could be an Isiah signing- I pointed out that both he and James were mid-level exceptions - which meant no luxury cap implications.

GKFv2-whatever bro - I am sure the mindless pratle of Fire Isiah, Isiah sucks, etc is the only thing you contribute. I have no doubt that other than mindless trades - there is little for you to contemplate on - such as - is all of what appears - real? See the aboove options 1 or 2 - to understand my point. As for always defending isiah - I would say its an unfair statement. I think what i am trying to say - and have said is - that it is much more RATIONAL to believe that the reason he got an extension for 20 soething million dollars - is because he didn't rock the boat and toed the line between the desires of Dolan and trying to do something.

The link at http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183670 - is an interesting read- not because the discussion is supporting isiah. Rather the contrary - it is pointing out very factually in a chronological fashion all his mistakes. However- the discussion does travel to the fact that NY is notorious for wanting quick fixes in their teams and no GM has complete carte blanche - becausethe owners main concern is getting revenue and or keeping the revenue stream going; in addition - it points out that there were many fans who approved some of these moves - and that saying in hindsight - 'Oh - this was so stupid, this was obviously bad' is not only disingenuous but also non-contributory - because if there was a prize for hindsight -everyone would get one.

Martin:
Whatever - you wish to say regardig the off the ark issues - I would like you to atleast buttress your point with some logic. Previously - it was regarding Curry's point per season - you were right - that was fine. But I am not sure - why pointing out that Dolan - does feel that the LB thing cost them a years , and that LB was involved in the decisions during his tenure is 'off the mark'.

I am just tryig to bring perspective here. I am not saying nor have ever said - IT has done a wonderful job. But what I am saying is that from day 1 -when your not even the second choice for the job , have no real talent on your roster and have salary cap hell on top off it to deal with - it is simply not an ideal situation for anyone. IT did what he needed to do to keep his job- because as the saying goes - 'You can't change things -if your not there!'. I think thats all I am saying.

Colangelo/West/ etc were all contacted before isiah ever came on the scene. Not one of the gentlemen were interested in the position and not one interviewed. Now - you have a cap situation that s much less out of control. A bunch of expiring contracts coming up in a year or two and atleast 4 young player that can play - and suddenly - everyone is 'interested'. Well - i would be too- now that I don't have Marcel Lampje, a stubborn non-retiring money sucking Allan Hoouston, Charlie Ward,Michhael Doleac. Shandon Anderson, Eisley etc to deal with-30 M in expiring contracts coming up, Lee/Nate/Randolph/Crawford/Balkman/Collins on my roster and a top ten draft pick. Who wouldn't?!
BlueSeats
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2/17/2008  10:04 PM
Posted by iyamwutiam:

BlueSeats: I ask you which is more preposterous and infantile.
1. Believing Isiah has some 'voodoo' hold or blackmail on Dolan- which is why he is staying despite adding more payroll or giving up draft pickson nearly all of the 12 trades he has made and having 5 coaches in 4 years?
or
2. At times - he did what his boss wanted him to do - which may have been bringing in Marbury, Lenny Wilkens, Larry Brown and it didn't work out and his boss (Dolan) finally said - you know what -you have been a good soldier and taken the fall - for that you get an extension.


I called nothing preposterous or infantile. Not even Voodoo. I speculate the hold Isiah has had on Dolan is charismatic. Dolan seems to be a guy who wants to be in with the players and thought of as cool, and I think Isiah knows how to charm him with stories of his own accomplishments and assorted tales of NBA lore. IOW, Isiah knows how to starphuch Dolan into tantric oblivion.

And the reason Isiah got the extension wasn't because he took "the fall" as a good soldier, it was because the players pledged allegiance to him, showed a month of honest effort, and the fans did the wave, so Dolan thought there was gonna finally be a payoff after all the drama and hundreds of millions shelled out.
That is all I am saying. The radio interview also gives you a glimpse - tat when LB was around he had input. As for Jeffries - I am only stating what was quoted in the interview- but I would agree that Jeffries -may/could be an Isiah signing- I pointed out that both he and James were mid-level exceptions - which meant no luxury cap implications.

I don't know what you are referring to regarding the interview and Brown's input. However, I would agree that Jeffries and perhaps even Balkman are guys Brown wanted isiah to get. But Isiah only got them after Brown was gone. They were no good to Brown by then.

And I have no idea what your point was, but guys acquired via the MLE have every bit as great an impact on luxury taxes as anyone else on the payroll.
Colangelo/West/ etc were all contacted before isiah ever came on the scene. Not one of the gentlemen were interested in the position and not one interviewed. Now - you have a cap situation that s much less out of control. A bunch of expiring contracts coming up in a year or two and atleast 4 young player that can play - and suddenly - everyone is 'interested'. Well - i would be too- now that I don't have Marcel Lampje, a stubborn non-retiring money sucking Allan Hoouston, Charlie Ward,Michhael Doleac. Shandon Anderson, Eisley etc to deal with-30 M in expiring contracts coming up, Lee/Nate/Randolph/Crawford/Balkman/Collins on my roster and a top ten draft pick. Who wouldn't?!

What evidence do you have that Colangelo and West were contacted before Isiah came on the scene? The first I remember Colangelo's name being mentioned was in the LB year when Stern told Dolan Isiah was awful and he should talk to Colangelo but Dolan told Stern to mind his own business. Colangelo turned nothing down as Dolan had so much confidence in isiah he did want to speak with anyone else.

And how is our cap situation better? When Isiah took over our payroll was $89M with huge contracts coming off the books each of the first three years. Those were the assets used to acquire Marbury, Crawford, Curry, Francis, Etc. We'd have been under the cap right now rather looking 3 years out. And don't kid yourself, just about every team is slated to be under the cap three years from now, just like we were when Isiah took over. But if Isiah had any intention of getting under the cap he wouldn't have just extended our payroll woes with the addition of Randolph.

You seem to just pull stuff out of a hat as you go along.


[Edited by - blueseats on 02-17-2008 10:09 PM]
iyamwutiam
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2/17/2008  11:16 PM

b]I called nothing preposterous or infantile. Not even Voodoo. I speculate the hold Isiah has had on Dolan is charismatic. Dolan seems to be a guy who wants to be in with the players and thought of as cool, and I think Isiah knows how to charm him with stories of his own accomplishments and assorted tales of NBA lore. IOW, Isiah knows how to starphuch Dolan into tantric oblivion.[[/b]

Fine - its not 'voodoo' its charisma- it still doesn't change the options of what is rational and what is not. It would be more rational to believe that Herb Williams is a total company suck up and spy - then that he has some hidden talent/charisma that allows him to survive multiple GMs, multiple coaches. The same thing can be applied to Isiah - it is the more rational of the two probable explanations.

Blueseats- did you read the link @ prosportsdaily- because it is exactly what your saying - with the added details of how much salary the Knicks added per trade- since we all know abot the draft picks. It is a very good set of posts and does talk a lot about the same concerns and views Knicks fans have. Essentially the argument boiled down to - it is part of 'our' own making - give me the playoffs and salary cap hell - even with lousy teams - but don't put us through 2-3 years of ignomy-so we can really build the team from the ground up.
Good luck. The Knicks' payroll is $89 million. They're committed to $69 million in contracts next year(about $23 million over the projected cap). In 2006-07, the Knicks will owe nearly $38 million to graybeards Eisley, Anderson and Allan Houston.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/oconnor/2003-12-23-thomas_x.htm

I can not prove my contention that other GMs were approached - I concede that.

I will also concede that no one 'knew' Layden would be fired in 2003. I mean after all - all he did was:

* Starting in 2002 extend Kurt Thomas to a 3-year, $13M contract (expiring contract netted Nate Robinson)
* Allan Houston re-signed as a free agent to a 6-year, $100M guaranteed contract that would keep him in New York until the 2006-07
* 01/02-Eisley brought in at the second year of a 7-year, $41 Million (thats 2007/08)
* Shandon Anderson while in the first year of a 6-year, $42 Million contract that he signed with the Rockets, which extended through the 2006-07 season
* 2003-Van Horn's salary of 3-years still remaining on a 6-year $73 Million

So actually no huge contracts were coming off until 2006/2007.
Essentially - the GM would have fielded a team of KVH, etc etc for atleast 3 1/2 seasons before they came off the cap. In the meanwhile - the team tanks and in three years no one wants to watch the Knicks. (This strategy used in Portland -did have a consequence - they lost public financing for the Rose Garden).

This is essentially the argument by posters on prosports daily- that NYC is not a market where you can do that sort of thing. The various poster's were atleast honest enoough to admit that many at the time were 'happy' regarding the Marbury trade -as well as some others. It is the nature of the beast- fill the seats , keep interest in the team (first) and then rebuild.
iyamwutiam
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2/17/2008  11:53 PM
We went from 89M with expiring contracts basically in 2003/4 when the cap was like 40M to 89 million with 30M in expiring contracts next year when the cap is like 53M- so as a percentage we are less 'over' the cap then when he started. No doubt that we ballooned to 130 million after 2005 with the signings of Rose/Francis and also having to pay off Antonio Davis.

But - if we can grant two years lee way for LB - then what we see is -Isiah increasing the payroll -but essentially being under the cap with a stable of developing rookies and some pieces by 2009/2010.

Lastly - almost every single GM who tried to build through the draft - was in danger of losing his job - McHale/Ainge/Kupchak/Billy King/Billy Knight.

right now- Billy King - looks smart for sticking with the draft, shedding salary and trading Iverson- but guess what - he has NO JOB!! All GMs are evntually pressured to make trades and bring in 'stars' as some 'movement' towards building a team. And before anyone says Portland - both John Nash and Steve Patterson were let go -due to abysmal attendance by fans watching the team win less than 30 games a year for 3 years.

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 02-17-2008 11:55 PM]
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2/18/2008  12:03 AM
Posted by iyamwutiam:

We went from 89M with expiring contracts basically in 2003/4 when the cap was like 40M to 89 million with 30M in expiring contracts next year when the cap is like 53M- so as a percentage we are less 'over' the cap then when he started. No doubt that we ballooned to 130 million after 2005 with the signings of Rose/Francis and also having to pay off Antonio Davis.

But - if we can grant two years lee way for LB - then what we see is -Isiah increasing the payroll -but essentially being under the cap with a stable of developing rookies and some pieces by 2009/2010.

Lastly - almost every single GM who tried to build through the draft - was in danger of losing his job - McHale/Ainge/Kupchak/Billy King/Billy Knight.

right now- Billy King - looks smart for sticking with the draft, shedding salary and trading Iverson- but guess what - he has NO JOB!! All GMs are evntually pressured to make trades and bring in 'stars' as some 'movement' towards building a team. And before anyone says Portland - both John Nash and Steve Patterson were let go -due to abysmal attendance by fans watching the team win less than 30 games a year for 3 years.

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 02-17-2008 11:55 PM]


Billy King didn't shed salary. He traded for Webber, gave Dalembert an extension, gave Willie Green and Korver extensions. Not sure about Aaron Mckie but he even bought him out. He didn't start trimming salary until after he saw the Webber deal blow up in his face, in which he bought out Webber and then traded A.I. Every single one of those GM's teams have been to the playoffs except ATL more than I SAY UGH has since his arriving here. So if they were under the gun I SAY UGH surely should be too, even more so.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-17-2008 11:09 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
nyk4ever
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2/18/2008  12:07 AM
I'm surprised so many people are still reading iyamwutiam's posts after he based many of his first posts on complete and utter lies and then just hid when he was called out on them.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
iyamwutiam
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2/18/2008  12:29 AM
Hid on what? Please remind me - as I am ready to admit when I am wrong :
as far as i remember :
1. Confusing Grunfeld for Grunwald - and I accepted that
2. saying Curry had two season of ruffly 20/6 - when he averaged 16/6 and I tink 20/9 - I agreed i was wrong.

I am not sure -what I have said - is so upsetting. Like I said - either there is some mystical reason Isiah is staying and received an extension or the extension is due to some admission by Dolan that perhaps he didn't let isiah do things his way. After all - it is clear - that salary cap management was bad, so many coaching chnges, disgruntled players and an under-performing team. So why get an extension? Especially when Layden -didn't survive this long?!?!

As for Billy King - yes - he traded for Webber- we all know they were trying to hang on - to that 2000 season when they made the finals - we also know that LB quit - because he saw that by 2003 -he was not going to ever get there even though that team actually finsihed the season with 48 wins!!

Essentially - I think anyone would try to keep a team that finished with 48 wins in 2003 as having potential to have a chance at the finals like they did in 2000 finals.

Billy King did buy out Webber as well and trade Iverson in 2006 when he realized this team was like the Nets this year - going nowhere. He did trades for Thaddeus Young, Jason Smith, got draft picks from Denver. By 2008 this team is in great shape cap wise and youth wise. Thats pretty good don't you think? I am not sure why giving Dalembert n extension was a bad thing- it seems a lot of peple on this board like him - and they definitely did not over -pay for him - as it appears so far.

Ainge- if it wasn't for the Garnett deal -he wa done. Kupchak was taking crazy heat - till Bynum busted out this year and Sasha and Farmer finally played a little better. Billy Knights been at it for years - and as we can see - he also ended up taking on 14M a year.

Look - I am not saying that people do not have a right to be disappointed, or that Isiah has done a splendid job. I am simply stating - that given the teams roster, cap situation, multiple coaches- particularly LB etc - it was a bad situation and he did not get lucky on his core transactions of Curry/Crawford. However- I do contend that the cap situation is better (if we do not trade), the bench has genuine from the day I was drafted I am a Knick- benchplayers and (which has some quality).

The only reason - I don't respond all the time - is because I am tired of responding to a rote recitation of Isiah was in full control etc. all I am sayig his - and I could be wrong - it doesn't apear that way to me. it appears like from day one - he was told to get star power, hire hall of fame coaches and do what he can to get the team competitive. That said - he definitely could have done a better job - but I don't see thi as the end of the world.

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 02-18-2008 12:31 AM]

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 02-18-2008 12:32 AM]
Panos
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2/18/2008  12:32 AM
Posted by iyamwutiam:

We went from 89M with expiring contracts basically in 2003/4 when the cap was like 40M to 89 million with 30M in expiring contracts next year when the cap is like 53M- so as a percentage we are less 'over' the cap then when he started. No doubt that we ballooned to 130 million after 2005 with the signings of Rose/Francis and also having to pay off Antonio Davis.

But - if we can grant two years lee way for LB - then what we see is -Isiah increasing the payroll -but essentially being under the cap with a stable of developing rookies and some pieces by 2009/2010.

Lastly - almost every single GM who tried to build through the draft - was in danger of losing his job - McHale/Ainge/Kupchak/Billy King/Billy Knight.

right now- Billy King - looks smart for sticking with the draft, shedding salary and trading Iverson- but guess what - he has NO JOB!! All GMs are evntually pressured to make trades and bring in 'stars' as some 'movement' towards building a team. And before anyone says Portland - both John Nash and Steve Patterson were let go -due to abysmal attendance by fans watching the team win less than 30 games a year for 3 years.

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 02-17-2008 11:55 PM]

Go away
Your posts are not only annoying, but verbose and annoying. Can't you be quicker to your annoying point?


[Edited by - panos on 18-02-2008 12:34 AM]
iyamwutiam
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2/18/2008  12:41 AM
I was - but most of you are too obtuse to concede a simple point and have an informed discussion. Name calling is always the refuge of scoundrels and fools - which are you
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2/18/2008  12:47 AM
Posted by iyamwutiam:

I was - but most of you are too obtuse to concede a simple point and have an informed discussion. Name calling is always the refuge of scoundrels and fools - which are you

The only fool is the one attempting to defend Isiah Thomas in every post.

[Edited by - gkfv2 on 02-18-2008 12:48 AM]
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
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2/18/2008  12:58 AM
Posted by iyamwutiam:


Fine - its not 'voodoo' its charisma- it still doesn't change the options of what is rational and what is not. It would be more rational to believe that Herb Williams is a total company suck up and spy - then that he has some hidden talent/charisma that allows him to survive multiple GMs, multiple coaches. The same thing can be applied to Isiah - it is the more rational of the two probable explanations.

Herb does have a charisma, it's called hard work, integrity, and a connection to a time when the knicks left their blood, sweat and tears on the court instead of half-time's KFC crumbs.

Isiah is a company man in that he knows how to swoon Dolan with his smile and stories, tells him exactly what he wants to hear, and knows when to call him "Jim" and when to call him "Mister Dolan". He also abides by the media policy. But those don't mean he's impotent; on the contrary, those maneuvers earn him power.

Listen, all Dolan's people are company men, but one of them is sure as hell making decisions, and that person is Isiah. Or do you suppose Dolan is on the phones with GMs swinging the deals and giving them to isiah to announce to the press? That seems to be the extension of your logic.

Blueseats- did you read the link @ prosportsdaily- because it is exactly what your saying - with the added details of how much salary the Knicks added per trade- since we all know abot the draft picks. It is a very good set of posts and does talk a lot about the same concerns and views Knicks fans have. Essentially the argument boiled down to - it is part of 'our' own making - give me the playoffs and salary cap hell - even with lousy teams - but don't put us through 2-3 years of ignomy-so we can really build the team from the ground up.

I just skimmed pages 1, 3 and 5 and it was a waste of time. It's the same conversation that's been had many times over on every Knicks board, including this one. The Knicks could have been under the cap years ago, and flush with youth from lottery draft picks, but instead Isiah spent lavishly on contracts typically considered among the most overvalued in the league for castoffs and malcontents, and fans like yourself lapped it up, praised our level of "talent", and said this is the year we can compete. I don't need a link to a 5 page thread to know that.
This is essentially the argument by posters on prosports daily- that NYC is not a market where you can do that sort of thing. The various poster's were atleast honest enoough to admit that many at the time were 'happy' regarding the Marbury trade -as well as some others. It is the nature of the beast- fill the seats , keep interest in the team (first) and then rebuild.

I have two things to say on this. The first I unfortunately have to repeat since the last time I said it you dropped out of the tread without comment.

1) Magic Johnson (the man you consider to have been Dolan's very most firstest choice in the whole wide world) said on TNT, shortly after Isiah's hire, that the first order of business for the Knicks should be to bring the payroll down. How do you justify that, and Dolan wanting to hire him, with your assertion that Isiah had to go after every obscene contract available?

You know, it's possible another GM would have taken more than a week to ascertain Houston and McDyess's health before setting the franchise on another spiraling course into extended payroll hell. But isiah did not.

2) You are confusing the desire to remain competitive, like Walsh/Indiana did, with the poorly executed fallen-starphuck that Isiah conducted. Isiah promised the Walsh/Carslile Indiana success, but delivered the Isiah/Isiah Knicks disaster.

It's really not that complicated. Isiah knew what Dolan wanted, he told him he could deliver it, Dolan believed him, gave him nearly unlimited funding and latitude for 2.5 years, then told him to prove something... the littlest thing... just a tiny morsel of progress. And when he did he re-upped him and gave him more funds for Randolph, presumably to take things further.

Isiah made promises, Dolan gave him all the money in the world for players and coaches, and what we have today is what Isiah's delivered with such largess. You can blame it on company men all you want, but no other GM with the same constraints would have done things exactly like Isiah has, and few could have done worse.

This team is FUBAR'ed.

But what do you care, you like our direction.
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2/18/2008  1:03 AM
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
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2/18/2008  1:04 AM
iyamwatiam you are dead wrong about Billy King trimming payroll please fess up to this.

Billy King was promoted as a GM sometime in 2000 I believe and was named Team President/GM in 2003 in which he had full control of the team

Philly's payroll by yr


2000-2001 16. Philadelphia 76ers $50,633,956 16th highest in the league
2001-2002 4. Philadelphia 76ers $58,073,366 4rth highest in the league
2002-2003 5. Philadelphia 76ers $64,822,488 5th highest in the league
2003-2004 11. Philadelphia 76ers $60,411,084 11th highest in the league
2004-2005 4. Philadelphia 76ers $71,951,888 4rth highest in the league
2005-2006 3. Philadelphia 76ers $84,690,863 3rd highest in the league
2006-2007 5. Philadelphia 76ers $69,140,163 5th highest in the league
2007-2008 10. Philadelphia 76ers $71,417,379 10th highest in the league


When he took over and had complete control in 2003 the Sixers faired as follows

2003-2004 missed playoffs
2004-2005 made playoffs
2005-2006 missed playoffs
2006-2007 missed playoffs
2007-2008 out of playoffs when fired


So in essence if someone such as him was under the gun producing such results, then obviously I SAY UGH royally doesn't deserve to stick around.


[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-18-2008 12:14 AM]
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martin
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2/18/2008  1:12 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:

iyamwatiam you are dead wrong about Billy King trimming payroll please fess up to this.

Billy King was promoted as a GM sometime in 2000 I believe and was named Team President/GM in 2003 in which he had full control of the team

Philly's payroll by yr


2000-2001 16. Philadelphia 76ers $50,633,956 16th highest in the league
2001-2002 4. Philadelphia 76ers $58,073,366 4rth highest in the league
2002-2003 5. Philadelphia 76ers $64,822,488 5th highest in the league
2003-2004 11. Philadelphia 76ers $60,411,084 11th highest in the league
2004-2005 4. Philadelphia 76ers $71,951,888 4rth highest in the league
2005-2006 3. Philadelphia 76ers $84,690,863 3rd highest in the league
2006-2007 5. Philadelphia 76ers $69,140,163 5th highest in the league
2007-2008 10. Philadelphia 76ers $71,417,379 10th highest in the league

yo blueballs, where did you get those stats? they are good.
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2/18/2008  1:38 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TrueBlue:

iyamwutiam you are dead wrong about Billy King trimming payroll please fess up to this.

Billy King was promoted as a GM sometime in 2000 I believe and was named Team President/GM in 2003 in which he had full control of the team

Philly's payroll by yr


2000-2001 16. Philadelphia 76ers $50,633,956 16th highest in the league
2001-2002 4. Philadelphia 76ers $58,073,366 4rth highest in the league
2002-2003 5. Philadelphia 76ers $64,822,488 5th highest in the league
2003-2004 11. Philadelphia 76ers $60,411,084 11th highest in the league
2004-2005 4. Philadelphia 76ers $71,951,888 4rth highest in the league
2005-2006 3. Philadelphia 76ers $84,690,863 3rd highest in the league
2006-2007 5. Philadelphia 76ers $69,140,163 5th highest in the league
2007-2008 10. Philadelphia 76ers $71,417,379 10th highest in the league

yo blueballs, where did you get those stats? they are good.


Hey why am I referred to as Blueballs?


I'm still talking to you BTW iyamwutiam......




When Scott took over in a GM role our cap situation was at $69.5mil. I'm not sure who was already on the books then but is it fair to say that we should afford Layden the same allowances as you're trying to give I SAY UGH with existing contracts on board? Yet his team was closer to a championship by far, than when I SAY UGH took over his crew.

You could justify him adding to the payroll at least a yr or two to try and eek out a chip. Meanwhile what was I SAY UGH'S excuse for not trimming it because we had absolutely no shot? $100mil+ payroll is championship money not just making the playoffs and getting swept money.


Now here's salary info when Scott Layden was Exec VP/GM 1999-2001 then Pres/GM 2001-2003 let's look at our payroll situation


1999-2000 2. New York Knicks $71,340,801 2nd highest in the league
2000-2001 2. New York Knicks $73,556,256 2nd highest in the league
2001-2002 1. New York Knicks $85,457,889 1rst highest in the league
2002-2003 2. New York Knicks $93,452,376 2nd highest in the league


1999-2000 made playoffs
2000-2001 made playoffs
2001-2002 missed playoffs
2002-2003 missed playoffs


Now let's examine our payroll when I SAY UGH took over December of 2003


2003-2004 1. New York Knicks $89,444,816 1rst highest in the league

(notice payroll was down from over $93mil and what does I SAY UGH do the following yr)

2004-2005 1. New York Knicks $102,442,544 1rst highest in the league
2005-2006 1. New York Knicks $126,610,272 1rst highest in the league......... ROTFLMBAOLOL!
2006-2007 1. New York Knicks $117,024,192 1rst highest in the league
2007-2008 2. New York Knicks $88,877,161 2nd highest in the league



2003-2004 made playoffs got swept
2004-2005 missed playoffs
2005-2006 missed playoffs
2006-2007 missed playoffs
2007-2008 NO CHANCE IN H.E. DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS WE MAKE THE PLAYOFFS






FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY AND MERCIFUL CAN WE PLEASE FIRE THIS FRAUD ALREADY!





[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-18-2008 12:55 AM]
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2/18/2008  1:48 AM
Uh, seriously, where did you get this info? I'm just curious.
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martin
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2/18/2008  1:50 AM
Posted by iyamwutiam:

We went from 89M with expiring contracts basically in 2003/4 when the cap was like 40M to 89 million with 30M in expiring contracts next year when the cap is like 53M- so as a percentage we are less 'over' the cap then when he started. No doubt that we ballooned to 130 million after 2005 with the signings of Rose/Francis and also having to pay off Antonio Davis.

But - if we can grant two years lee way for LB - then what we see is -Isiah increasing the payroll -but essentially being under the cap with a stable of developing rookies and some pieces by 2009/2010.

Lastly - almost every single GM who tried to build through the draft - was in danger of losing his job - McHale/Ainge/Kupchak/Billy King/Billy Knight.

right now- Billy King - looks smart for sticking with the draft, shedding salary and trading Iverson- but guess what - he has NO JOB!! All GMs are evntually pressured to make trades and bring in 'stars' as some 'movement' towards building a team. And before anyone says Portland - both John Nash and Steve Patterson were let go -due to abysmal attendance by fans watching the team win less than 30 games a year for 3 years.

[Edited by - iyamwutiam on 02-17-2008 11:55 PM]

dude, this is why we have trouble reading your posts:

from old blueballs just above:

2003-2004 1. New York Knicks $89,444,816 1rst highest in the league

(notice payroll was down from over $93mil and what does I SAY UGH do the following yr)

2004-2005 1. New York Knicks $102,442,544 1rst highest in the league
2005-2006 1. New York Knicks $126,610,272 1rst highest in the league......... ROTFLMBAOLOL!
2006-2007 1. New York Knicks $117,024,192 1rst highest in the league
2007-2008 2. New York Knicks $88,877,161 2nd highest in the league
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TrueBlue
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2/18/2008  2:18 AM
Best websites I've found to reference NBA Team and player Salaries



#1 My favorite for Team Salary History it's also good for Player salary but doesn't quite have in glossary linked format like the next site
http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/index.html


#2 My favorite for Team/Player Salary History when they signed their deals
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/salaries/default.aspx


#1 My favorite for current Team/Salary
http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm


#1 My favorite for current and future Team/Player Payroll Exceptions/Options/Exemptions/Contract Options/Trade Restrictions etc etc
http://www.realgm.com/src_team_exceptions/all/


Notable sites

Here's a good one for finding current teams players and the Free Agents
http://www.sportscity.com/NBA/NBA-Free-Agents-2008/
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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2/18/2008  9:38 AM
"If Isiah asks for Jerry West, Dolan will get him him Jerry west."

"If Isiah asks for a chicken, he'll get a chicken!"



Isiah is a chicken Phucher!
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