Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Layden's team ended 5-3 without their savior (McDyess) and Houston playing 82 games through career ending pain.

This team is ending ~ 1-8, in spite of having their original starting 5 available: Marbury, Francis, Skinny, Frye and Curry.

They went out on an uptick, we're going out through the toilet.

I really don't see how this squad would have a chance. If you don't count injuries you have to add McDyess, another all-star, to go with Spree, Houston and Kurt. If you do count injuries then your fielding this bunch (our starters) who've been plummeting like a bird with no wings.


What are the mental contortions one performs to think this squad would beat that one?

Original starting five? The original starting five was done in December. Marbury, Craw, Q, Lee along with Curry led the team in minutes played and none of them (with the exception of Curry) has been available during this horrible stretch. Its a little unfair compairing how both teams faired down the stretch when one is missing 4 of its top five players.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Layden's team ended 5-3 without their savior (McDyess) and Houston playing 82 games through career ending pain.

This team is ending ~ 1-8, in spite of having their original starting 5 available: Marbury, Francis, Skinny, Frye and Curry.

They went out on an uptick, we're going out through the toilet.

I really don't see how this squad would have a chance. If you don't count injuries you have to add McDyess, another all-star, to go with Spree, Houston and Kurt. If you do count injuries then your fielding this bunch (our starters) who've been plummeting like a bird with no wings.


What are the mental contortions one performs to think this squad would beat that one?

Original starting five? The original starting five was done in December. Marbury, Craw, Q, Lee along with Curry led the team in minutes played and none of them (with the exception of Curry) has been available during this horrible stretch. Its a little unfair compairing how both teams faired down the stretch when one is missing 4 of its top five players.

Our original starting 5 was Marbury, Francis, JJ, Frye, Eddy. All available, even Marbury with his stubbed toe. It is what it is.

It's also unfair counting injuries to one team and not another, no?

Bottom line, they finished 5-3 without McDyess, their savior, and we're finishing 1-8 with our original starting 5 available. Is that true or false?

First of all the stubbed-toe is keeping Marb out of the lineup whereas the Knee didn't keep Houston out of the line-up. And you can't say that Marb would be playing if they were still n playoff contention because Marb was missing games when we were still mathematically still in it.

Blue, why do you keep harping on the original starting five when Q, Craw and Lee averaged more minutes than JJ, Francis and Frye repectively? Q, Craw and Lee finished the games when it counted, that should count for something. Q, Craw and Lee are 3 of the top five players on this team regardless of who is/was starting and playing without them is an obvious disadvantage.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by misterearl:

BlueSeats - okay, so "Layden's" Knicks would defeat Isiah's Knicks...maybe.

...but in two years Isiah's feisty young Knicks will be just reaching their prime career years (26-29) and continuing to bond as a team...

... while ALL of Layden's Knicks will be using walkers to get around the house, metal detectors on the beach, motorized wheelchairs at the grocery store and receiving retirement checks in the mail.


[Edited by - misterearl on 04-16-2007 11:28 AM]

Isiah's team is younger and more athletic, just like he said it would be. That is another undeniable fact.

These conversations go so much better when we don't deny the facts.

That said, guys like Houston, Spree and McDyess weren't all that unathletic. They might not have had the hops of Balkman and Nate, but when you take in the fullness of their game they were vastly better bball players than anyone on this team. And peole forget that when Dyess came he was regarded as a guy who could jump out of the gym.

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Layden's team ended 5-3 without their savior (McDyess) and Houston playing 82 games through career ending pain.

This team is ending ~ 1-8, in spite of having their original starting 5 available: Marbury, Francis, Skinny, Frye and Curry.

They went out on an uptick, we're going out through the toilet.

I really don't see how this squad would have a chance. If you don't count injuries you have to add McDyess, another all-star, to go with Spree, Houston and Kurt. If you do count injuries then your fielding this bunch (our starters) who've been plummeting like a bird with no wings.


What are the mental contortions one performs to think this squad would beat that one?

Original starting five? The original starting five was done in December. Marbury, Craw, Q, Lee along with Curry led the team in minutes played and none of them (with the exception of Curry) has been available during this horrible stretch. Its a little unfair compairing how both teams faired down the stretch when one is missing 4 of its top five players.

Our original starting 5 was Marbury, Francis, JJ, Frye, Eddy. All available, even Marbury with his stubbed toe. It is what it is.

It's also unfair counting injuries to one team and not another, no?

Bottom line, they finished 5-3 without McDyess, their savior, and we're finishing 1-8 with our original starting 5 available. Is that true or false?

First of all the stubbed-toe is keeping Marb out of the lineup whereas the Knee didn't keep Houston out of the line-up. And you can't say that Marb would be playing if they were still n playoff contention because Marb was missing games when we were still mathematically still in it.

Blue, why do you keep harping on the original starting five when Q, Craw and Lee averaged more minutes than JJ, Francis and Frye repectively? Q, Craw and Lee finished the games when it counted, that should count for something. Q, Craw and Lee are 3 of the top five players on this team regardless of who is/was starting and playing without them is an obvious disadvantage.

Beast, I just want a level playing field, and I'm content enough if you choose the parameters. We are asked which team would win a playoff series. To do so do we use the line-ups, and their concommitant records, that ended the seasons, or do we take the theoretical full health rosters that would include all-star McDyess? Your choice.

I think your unwillingness thus far to go there speaks volumes, but I'm enjoying the show. It's funny how hard Isiah's supporters have to work to give him every advantage possible over "the worst GM in the history of sports" in the face of that GM's team probably beating his.

[Edited by - blueseats on 04-16-2007 2:42 PM]

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Layden's team ended 5-3 without their savior (McDyess) and Houston playing 82 games through career ending pain.

This team is ending ~ 1-8, in spite of having their original starting 5 available: Marbury, Francis, Skinny, Frye and Curry.

They went out on an uptick, we're going out through the toilet.

I really don't see how this squad would have a chance. If you don't count injuries you have to add McDyess, another all-star, to go with Spree, Houston and Kurt. If you do count injuries then your fielding this bunch (our starters) who've been plummeting like a bird with no wings.


What are the mental contortions one performs to think this squad would beat that one?

Original starting five? The original starting five was done in December. Marbury, Craw, Q, Lee along with Curry led the team in minutes played and none of them (with the exception of Curry) has been available during this horrible stretch. Its a little unfair compairing how both teams faired down the stretch when one is missing 4 of its top five players.

Our original starting 5 was Marbury, Francis, JJ, Frye, Eddy. All available, even Marbury with his stubbed toe. It is what it is.

It's also unfair counting injuries to one team and not another, no?

Bottom line, they finished 5-3 without McDyess, their savior, and we're finishing 1-8 with our original starting 5 available. Is that true or false?

First of all the stubbed-toe is keeping Marb out of the lineup whereas the Knee didn't keep Houston out of the line-up. And you can't say that Marb would be playing if they were still n playoff contention because Marb was missing games when we were still mathematically still in it.

Blue, why do you keep harping on the original starting five when Q, Craw and Lee averaged more minutes than JJ, Francis and Frye repectively? Q, Craw and Lee finished the games when it counted, that should count for something. Q, Craw and Lee are 3 of the top five players on this team regardless of who is/was starting and playing without them is an obvious disadvantage.

Beast, I just want a level playing field, and I'm content enough if you choose the parameters. We are asked which team would win a playoff series. To do so do we use the line-ups, and their concommitant records, that ended the seasons, or do we take the theoretical full health rosters that would include all-star McDyess? Your choice.

I think your unwillingness thus far to go there speaks volumes, but I'm enjoying the show. It's funny how hard Isiah's supporters have to work to give him every advantage possible over "the worst GM in the history of sports" in the face of that GM's team probably beating his.

[Edited by - blueseats on 04-16-2007 2:42 PM]

You got me wrong Blue. I'm no Supporter (lover, I believe is the term used here most often) I like to think I'm a realist. I've slammed Isiah when he needs to be slammed and and given credit when I see it fit.

As far as the Dyess situation is concerned, he had no impact on wins and loses that yr so its hard to include him. But we are getting off subject. My only point was its unfair for you to compare the way the Layden (Grunfeld, Checkettes,) Knicks finished with the way this knick team finished while missing 4 of there best 5 players.




[Edited by - bigbeast on 04-16-2007 5:52 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Listen all you idiots, I'm going to tell you exactly how this 7 game series would go down. I dare anyone to challenge me on this one because in your hearts you know I'm right.

The Layden led Knicks would rush out to a 3-0 lead, blasting the Isiah knicks by over 20 pts in each game. With their backs against the wall the Isiah led Knicks would come back with a vengeance. Winning the next 3 games by a combined total of 175 pts. They would win the games so easily that the Layden led Knicks would be ready to roll over and die. Isiah's Knicks would talk of championships and Layden's Knicks would talk about "giving sustained effort and it not being over until it's over". The press would be declaring Isiah's KNicks as the team of the decade.

Then game 7 would start. Isiah's KNicks would fall behind by 30 at halftime. Storm back outscoring Layden's team in the 3rd quarter 29-0. The battle would go back and forth in the fourth with Isiah's Knicks able to take a late 12 pt lead with about 2 minutes left. With the game all but over, Isiah's Knicks would proceed to turn the ball over on 10 straight possessions to give Layden's team a chance to get back into the game. Layden's team would tie it with 10 seconds on the clock. Isiah's Knicks would come down dump it into Curry and he would score the go ahead basket. Isiah would call timeout and without saying anything he would just simply hold up a banner that read "no three pointers!!!". The Knicks would come out of the timeout primed to take away the three pointline to force a tie as a worst case scenario. On the ensuing inbound Isiah's Knicks would triple team Othella in the post leaving Allan Houston wide open for a game winning three.

After the game quotes:

Allan Houston: "I just want to thank god for letting us play such an asse dumb team"
Charlie Ward: "I want to thank God for loving Layden more than Isiah"
Kurt Thomas: "I want to thank God for helping us win, now let's get some hoes"
Scott Layden:"I like our team and am just trying to find a way to make us better"

Isiah: "I'm just happy we played hard" and "god damne refs"
Stephon: "hey until they win the title they are all losers like me"
Nate: "Where are my leggos"
Steve Francis: "hey at least I got paid"
Jerome James: "CAn't talk, eating"

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Simply put, the Thomas team IMO. That Layden team was one of the most healthiest teams that the Knicks have ever put on the court. Spreewell was the only starter who missed more than 5 days. They finished with 37 wins while this year team has 32wins and hasn't finished the season yet. But like 4949 said they are both bad but the Layden team was worst or atleast played like it.

Houston 82 games played
Thomas 81 games played
Eisley 82 games played (he was the starter not Ward)
Sprewell 74 games played
Anderson 82 games played

http://www.nba.com/knicks/stats/
http://www.nba.com/knicks/stats/2002/index.html

[Edited by - pharzeone on 14-04-2007 7:47 PM]

I guess losing McDyess for the season doesnt qualify as an injury?

That was the big aquisition. A 20/10 froncourt player to put with Houston/Sprewell. Yea, he was injured. Yea it blew up in Layden's face, but he was still on the roster and before his knee cracked in the preseason he was ripping down like 14 boards a game in his first couple.

Layden's team won 37 games because guys like Kurt, Spree, Houston, Harringont, Spoon, Ward, Anderson, etc didnt need a system. They didnt need special plays, a favorite coach or any of the baby crap ISiah's players need. They played hard for Chaney and won 37 games because thats the kind of players they were.

We have like 2 of them now