Posted by Marv:

Posted by yrubram:

STEVEN A IS RIGHT.

YALL CONSTANTLY DOWN ON MARBS BUT HE PLAYIN HURT! THEN YALL JUST LOVE YOU SOME VANILLA ICE DAVID LEE. LIKE HE CANT PLAY WITH A SORE ANKLE. WHAT IS THAT SHIT? BUT IN YOUR EYES HE CANT DO NO WRONG.

dude - 2 questions for you:

1. can david lee play the game or not?

2. does marbury get ripped here for not playing hurt or for making stupidass decisions as a playmaker?

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Can someone remind me just what has been said about Lee relative to others that warrants this debate?

To me the whole question has about as much merit as the accusation that Isiah keeps Lee chained to the bench because he's white. IOW, very little.

I actually read that on this forum before.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by BRIGGS:

who are the people complaining?

david lee jamal and q are hurt--what the F does that have to do with the rality that CHANNING FRYE JEFFERIES and CURRY HAVE NOT STEPPED up in their absence. Sephon Marbury sure as heck stepped up Balkman stepped up Malik Rose stepped up Nate has stepped up Francis has been up and down but he also WON two games for us

the problem in the last 10 games IS we havent RECEIVED the offensive production from FRYE NUMBER 1 CURRY has REGRESSED or has been run into the ground maybe both and Jefferies is making 5+mm and he is shooting 35% from the FT line--forget lee or JC--those players HAVE not stepped up IF they did we would be in the playoffs--because THEY have not we arent no inury excuse BS NO race BS No IT?Dolan BS I just outlined the BOTTOM LINE---NO one can refute it.

I have a bigger problem with Q Rich. He has a sore back. Frye is no longer in my vision whatever you get for him is just a freakin bonus. You trade him to get a Sean Williams in the draft. I rather go with Morris and Williams and the center position. I would rather see the Knicks land a guy like Green or Thaddeous Young at the SF or take the approach of drafting Young if he falls and Almond who most likely be at the Knicks pick.

Posted by tomverve:

Couple of things:

1) People have correctly pointed out that Lee is popular because of his effort and playing style. But it is impossible for us to say that Lee is popular *only* because of his effort and playing style, and that his race has no effect on his popularity. Maybe if Lee were black he wouldn't be quite so popular.

2) What people say about this issue is unreliable. That's not to say that people are outright lying, but rather that they may not be the best judge of what is forming their thought processes. Race may play some role in how people view players even if they don't realize it, and even if they don't want it to be true. See for instance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_Association_Test

Posted by tomverve:

Couple of things:

1) People have correctly pointed out that Lee is popular because of his effort and playing style. But it is impossible for us to say that Lee is popular *only* because of his effort and playing style, and that his race has no effect on his popularity. Maybe if Lee were black he wouldn't be quite so popular.

2) What people say about this issue is unreliable. That's not to say that people are outright lying, but rather that they may not be the best judge of what is forming their thought processes. Race may play some role in how people view players even if they don't realize it, and even if they don't want it to be true. See for instance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_Association_Test

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by tomverve:

Couple of things:

1) People have correctly pointed out that Lee is popular because of his effort and playing style. But it is impossible for us to say that Lee is popular *only* because of his effort and playing style, and that his race has no effect on his popularity. Maybe if Lee were black he wouldn't be quite so popular.

2) What people say about this issue is unreliable. That's not to say that people are outright lying, but rather that they may not be the best judge of what is forming their thought processes. Race may play some role in how people view players even if they don't realize it, and even if they don't want it to be true. See for instance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_Association_Test

Good call Tom. Many of my colleagues do research using the IAT. What field is your training in? Are you a research psychologist or are you just knowledgeable about the IAT?

Posted by Bippity10:

Tomverve: If you read the posts you will see that noone has disputed that race plays a factor in how popular a player is. the question is what is wrong with it. If a white guy likes a white player because he is white who cares. If I like a player because they came from my home town who cares. If you like a guy because he has your style of play who cares?

What are we going to start setting up sensitivity camps to teach white people to enjoy black players more???

People like what they can relate to. That's human nature. There is no harm in people being attracted to something that they can relate to. I guarantee that black fans favor black players as much as white fans favor black players. We all have the same mindset but we don't want white people to have our mindset because they are a majority. Taht's the only reason whey we suddenly view this as wrong.

David Lee is always going to be popular and given the benefit of the doubt as long as he plays hard. In the meantime he will never be viewed with the legendary eye that black guys like John Starks, and patrick Ewing and Charles Oakley receive whne they enter the garden unless he wins games. IN the end that is what matters. NYers are very fair. Race is an issue. But to insinuate that this is a racist issue is just plain wrong in my opinion.

Posted by arkrud:

Different races have different physical abilities. This was defined by live conditions in various areas of the world.
People from Kenya are exceptional long distance runners as they developed the genetic skills to run long distance when they hunt in the African flatlands.
The style of basketball in today’s NBA is more suitable for black players as they are naturally more athletic, have less body fat, better jumping ability, etc. I am talking on average. There are definitely a couple of white guys who can do same stuff but not too many.
Whites are on average more focused and persistent in developing skills. Have more stable character. They can have better stamina too. Again it will be some black guys with same abilities but not too many.
There is nothing wrong with NBA having majority of black athletes, Marathon running have Kenyans winning all the time, and Hockey having a majority of white players (it is no ice in Africa )

However if you will look which NBA teams are more balanced (Dallas, Spurs, Huston) you will see the mix of black and white players. Each group can bring their best to the table.
I am not telling that Knicks should have more white players just because they white but it will be great to bring some balance to this severely one-dimensional team. And Lee is a good example how different kind of player can immediately contribute.






[Edited by - arkrud on 03-28-2007 10:17 AM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by arkrud:

Different races have different physical abilities. This was defined by live conditions in various areas of the world.
People from Kenya are exceptional long distance runners as they developed the genetic skills to run long distance when they hunt in the African flatlands.
The style of basketball in today’s NBA is more suitable for black players as they are naturally more athletic, have less body fat, better jumping ability, etc. I am talking on average. There are definitely a couple of white guys who can do same stuff but not too many.
Whites are on average more focused and persistent in developing skills. Have more stable character. They can have better stamina too. Again it will be some black guys with same abilities but not too many.
There is nothing wrong with NBA having majority of black athletes, Marathon running have Kenyans winning all the time, and Hockey having a majority of white players (it is no ice in Africa )

However if you will look which NBA teams are more balanced (Dallas, Spurs, Huston) you will see the mix of black and white players. Each group can bring their best to the table.
I am not telling that Knicks should have more white players just because they white but it will be great to bring some balance to this severely one-dimensional team. And Lee is a good example how different kind of player can immediately contribute.






[Edited by - arkrud on 03-28-2007 10:17 AM]

One of the most unintentionally racist posts I have ever read. Hopefully it's a good attempt at sarcasm.