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Something I've Noticed About The Lovers
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TrueBlue
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2/20/2007  12:41 PM
LOL I had to bump this thread again after reading some of the responses from the LOVERS on the current 9gm projected record thread by DJ.

I mean at what point in the season do the LOVERS stand behind this team and confidently say they'll win 5-8gms in a row or go on a stint considerably better than .500? Their talk all season has been gaurded, cautious, nervous, timid, passive.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 02-20-2007 12:03 PM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
AUTOADVERT
kam77
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2/20/2007  1:01 PM
I support the team, i dont bash them at every opportunity like others do.
Call me a LOVER then. Its better than being a hater. As whatever you want to call me, i have been gaurded all year. I predicted 38 wins.

Thats 15 wins better than last year. To me, expecting more than 15 win improvement is being greedy. Now next year, i want contonued improvement. This years record means nothing unless we can build on it as a starting point ( a point we should have already been at last year if not for the disaster that happened and the team mutiny than ensued ).

If you want to say that 15 wins is not enough progress, then you can say that, I respect that opinion.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
islesfan
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2/20/2007  1:13 PM
Posted by kam77:

I support the team, i dont bash them at every opportunity like others do.
Call me a LOVER then. Its better than being a hater. As whatever you want to call me, i have been gaurded all year. I predicted 38 wins.

Thats 15 wins better than last year. To me, expecting more than 15 win improvement is being greedy. Now next year, i want contonued improvement. This years record means nothing unless we can build on it as a starting point ( a point we should have already been at last year if not for the disaster that happened and the team mutiny than ensued ).

If you want to say that 15 wins is not enough progress, then you can say that, I respect that opinion.

And I'm considered to be the biggest hater on this board and I predicted 39 wins. Go figure.

Oh, but it's probably because I'm just being a typical hater who sets unfair expectations.

Or others are lowering expectations so that anything looks like progress.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TrueBlue
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2/20/2007  1:18 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

I support the team, i dont bash them at every opportunity like others do.
Call me a LOVER then. Its better than being a hater. As whatever you want to call me, i have been gaurded all year. I predicted 38 wins.

Thats 15 wins better than last year. To me, expecting more than 15 win improvement is being greedy. Now next year, i want contonued improvement. This years record means nothing unless we can build on it as a starting point ( a point we should have already been at last year if not for the disaster that happened and the team mutiny than ensued ).

If you want to say that 15 wins is not enough progress, then you can say that, I respect that opinion.

And I'm considered to be the biggest hater on this board and I predicted 39 wins. Go figure.

Oh, but it's probably because I'm just being a typical hater who sets unfair expectations.

Or others are lowering expectations so that anything looks like progress.


I guess what I don't understand judging by some of these recent projected records by the Lovers why they feel it's ok for this team not to be a playoff team? Didn't ZAYU supposedly acquire more talent than when he took over. Isn't the East somewhat watered down or more paired? Haven't they played in the weakest division the past 2-3yrs?
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
djsunyc
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2/20/2007  1:27 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

I support the team, i dont bash them at every opportunity like others do.
Call me a LOVER then. Its better than being a hater. As whatever you want to call me, i have been gaurded all year. I predicted 38 wins.

Thats 15 wins better than last year. To me, expecting more than 15 win improvement is being greedy. Now next year, i want contonued improvement. This years record means nothing unless we can build on it as a starting point ( a point we should have already been at last year if not for the disaster that happened and the team mutiny than ensued ).

If you want to say that 15 wins is not enough progress, then you can say that, I respect that opinion.

And I'm considered to be the biggest hater on this board and I predicted 39 wins. Go figure.

Oh, but it's probably because I'm just being a typical hater who sets unfair expectations.

Or others are lowering expectations so that anything looks like progress.


I guess what I don't understand judging by some of these recent projected records by the Lovers why they feel it's ok for this team not to be a playoff team? Didn't ZAYU supposedly acquire more talent than when he took over. Isn't the East somewhat watered down or more paired? Haven't they played in the weakest division the past 2-3yrs?

the response will be b/c we are young (in terms of actual age). and b/c they had to bounce back from last year. and these kids are still developing. that's probably an argument that can be used to justify not making the playoffs.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-20-2007 1:27 PM]
Bonn1997
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2/20/2007  1:29 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

I support the team, i dont bash them at every opportunity like others do.
Call me a LOVER then. Its better than being a hater. As whatever you want to call me, i have been gaurded all year. I predicted 38 wins.

Thats 15 wins better than last year. To me, expecting more than 15 win improvement is being greedy. Now next year, i want contonued improvement. This years record means nothing unless we can build on it as a starting point ( a point we should have already been at last year if not for the disaster that happened and the team mutiny than ensued ).

If you want to say that 15 wins is not enough progress, then you can say that, I respect that opinion.

And I'm considered to be the biggest hater on this board and I predicted 39 wins. Go figure.

Oh, but it's probably because I'm just being a typical hater who sets unfair expectations.

Or others are lowering expectations so that anything looks like progress.


I guess what I don't understand judging by some of these recent projected records by the Lovers why they feel it's ok for this team not to be a playoff team? Didn't ZAYU supposedly acquire more talent than when he took over. Isn't the East somewhat watered down or more paired? Haven't they played in the weakest division the past 2-3yrs?

the response will be b/c we are young (in terms of actual age). and b/c they had to bounce back from last year. and these kids are still developing. that's probably an argument that can be used to justify not making the playoffs.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-20-2007 1:27 PM]

If this team still doesn't make the playoffs in Isiah's 4th year, then that's the final straw and he should (but won't) be fired. And Cablevision should replace Dolan.
arkrud
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2/20/2007  1:32 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

I support the team, i dont bash them at every opportunity like others do.
Call me a LOVER then. Its better than being a hater. As whatever you want to call me, i have been gaurded all year. I predicted 38 wins.

Thats 15 wins better than last year. To me, expecting more than 15 win improvement is being greedy. Now next year, i want contonued improvement. This years record means nothing unless we can build on it as a starting point ( a point we should have already been at last year if not for the disaster that happened and the team mutiny than ensued ).

If you want to say that 15 wins is not enough progress, then you can say that, I respect that opinion.

And I'm considered to be the biggest hater on this board and I predicted 39 wins. Go figure.

Oh, but it's probably because I'm just being a typical hater who sets unfair expectations.

Or others are lowering expectations so that anything looks like progress.


I guess what I don't understand judging by some of these recent projected records by the Lovers why they feel it's ok for this team not to be a playoff team? Didn't ZAYU supposedly acquire more talent than when he took over. Isn't the East somewhat watered down or more paired? Haven't they played in the weakest division the past 2-3yrs?

the response will be b/c we are young (in terms of actual age). and b/c they had to bounce back from last year. and these kids are still developing. that's probably an argument that can be used to justify not making the playoffs.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-20-2007 1:27 PM]

If this team still doesn't make the playoffs in Isiah's 4th year, then that's the final straw and he should (but won't) be fired. And Cablevision should replace Dolan.

And Bush has to impeach himself...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TMS
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2/20/2007  2:28 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

I support the team, i dont bash them at every opportunity like others do.
Call me a LOVER then. Its better than being a hater. As whatever you want to call me, i have been gaurded all year. I predicted 38 wins.

Thats 15 wins better than last year. To me, expecting more than 15 win improvement is being greedy. Now next year, i want contonued improvement. This years record means nothing unless we can build on it as a starting point ( a point we should have already been at last year if not for the disaster that happened and the team mutiny than ensued ).

If you want to say that 15 wins is not enough progress, then you can say that, I respect that opinion.

And I'm considered to be the biggest hater on this board and I predicted 39 wins. Go figure.

Oh, but it's probably because I'm just being a typical hater who sets unfair expectations.

Or others are lowering expectations so that anything looks like progress.

the problem isn't w/the predictions of Wins this season... i think most people were on board w/the 33-38 win range this season... i said 36 myself.

the difference is that while some people choose to take some encouragement out of the improvement they're seeing from some of the young players this year, others see nothing to be excited over & choose to be down on this team regardless of whatever form of progress they see out of these players.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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2/20/2007  3:19 PM
Listen we have been terrible for nearly 5 years and yes; we have better pieces now, how could we not, we have suffered through bad ownership, terrible coaching, boring basketball, smooth talking executives that don't know anything about ny and building a mentally strong tough group of guys, we have heard a million excuses, and watched our past two coaches come up with diasterous rotations, play the wrong guys and make moves the common idiot wouldn't think about doing....

Your not a hater if you know the game of basketball and look at this team and say this group has limited growth potential and has little chance of developing into a great team.....I love Lee he is going to be a star there is no question, Balkman has good potential, and q is a warrior, but.....

Our leader and vetran influence on this team is injury prone at 26, we owe over 100 million to two guards that have never won anything in their entire career, while being selfish children, yes one of them has taken the necessary steps to improve his defense and leadership after the city he grew up in turned on him, called for his head and was tired of his second rate game and third person references, our combo guard hasn't improved in the past four seasons can't guard a stationary cut out and continues to make poor decisions turn the ball over while taking selfish shots, we are locked into two players that don't provide anything to the team for another 4 years because isiah was compeled to sign them with the midlevel exception, our center is one of the laziest players in the entire league and provides an interior presence comprable to earl boykins, not to mention he makes oliver miller and shawn kemp look like body builders, our cap situation is the worst in the entire league, and a good majority of the executives in the league relish our failure, coupled with the fact that the fate of the franchise rest in a 5'7 combo guard that probably acts more immature than his son and our 6'11 power foward is yet to assert himself enough to grab 10 rebounds in a single regular season game, our best shotblocker doesn't play because our gm needs to justify signing a one dimentional sub par defender in the offseason
kam77
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2/20/2007  3:34 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by kam77:

I support the team, i dont bash them at every opportunity like others do.
Call me a LOVER then. Its better than being a hater. As whatever you want to call me, i have been gaurded all year. I predicted 38 wins.

Thats 15 wins better than last year. To me, expecting more than 15 win improvement is being greedy. Now next year, i want contonued improvement. This years record means nothing unless we can build on it as a starting point ( a point we should have already been at last year if not for the disaster that happened and the team mutiny than ensued ).

If you want to say that 15 wins is not enough progress, then you can say that, I respect that opinion.

And I'm considered to be the biggest hater on this board and I predicted 39 wins. Go figure.

Oh, but it's probably because I'm just being a typical hater who sets unfair expectations.

Or others are lowering expectations so that anything looks like progress.


I guess what I don't understand judging by some of these recent projected records by the Lovers why they feel it's ok for this team not to be a playoff team? Didn't ZAYU supposedly acquire more talent than when he took over. Isn't the East somewhat watered down or more paired? Haven't they played in the weakest division the past 2-3yrs?

the response will be b/c we are young (in terms of actual age). and b/c they had to bounce back from last year. and these kids are still developing. that's probably an argument that can be used to justify not making the playoffs.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-20-2007 1:27 PM]


Zeke came aboard in the middle of the 03-04 season.
He made the Marbury (add) and Van Horn (subtract) trades.
We finished above .500 in games under Marbury, and made the playoffs.
Many were already fed up with Isiah (and after some success, no less)

The 04-05 Knicks won a dissapointing 33 games.
Could have won more but AHouston broke down. Injuries happened to catch up to him.
JCrawford was thrust into a role he was not supposed to take over so soon.
A historic losing streak under a hal of fame coach, fired, interim coach fares the same.
Many were fed up with Isiah for not anticipating Houston's demise earlier (i guess?) and failing to blow it all up sooner (preferably before the Marbury trade)
Talk about hindsight being 20/20.

In comes a new hall worthy coach and Eddy Curry,
The 05-06 Knicks thought they were for real, but really stunk it up. Winning 23 games.

So the big debate is if we should be measured against 23 wins or 33 wins or against a .500 team.

Obviously, you're not comparing equivalent teams since almost half the team wasn't even here two years ago and have never won more than 23 games together. But certainly we are going to reverse the trend of losing more games every year. We should surpass the 33 victories from two years ago or as I like to call it, 2004-2005 B.C. (before curry). And we will challenge the record of the 2003-2004 squad that wound up with 39.

THAT team was chock full of veterans who were about to start their career decline.
THIS team is 180 degrees different in terms of potential.

To NOT see that is criminal.



lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
islesfan
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2/20/2007  4:51 PM
Funny how the Lovers always talk about how much better this team is than the one that Isiah inherited and the one from just 2 years ago but they never want to compare those teams won-loss records to this one.

If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
kam77
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2/20/2007  4:57 PM
Uhhh i just did compare their won loss records, and they're just about the same with the difference being we're putting up these quivalent win totals with youth.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
islesfan
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2/20/2007  5:14 PM
Posted by kam77:

Uhhh i just did compare their won loss records, and they're just about the same with the difference being we're putting up these quivalent win totals with youth.

Uhhh, you just came up with reasons why you think it's unfair to compare their won loss records.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
MS
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2/20/2007  5:17 PM
some people just don't know what they are watching......

if you have been in the league five years you should have some semblance of an idea what is going on....

Eddy Curry is not that young he is 24 and has been in the league 6 years he should know how to rebound and defend
Crawford has been in the league 7 seasons he should know when to shoot and when to get others involved
Jefferies has been in the league six years and still can't shoot
Q has six season in the league

Lottery Picks
2nd Pick Francis (8th season)
4th Pick Curry (6th Season)
4th Pick Marbury (11th season)
7th pick Frye (2nd Season)
8th pick-Crawford (6th Season
11th pick-Jefferies

Underachieving lottery talent is all this team is made up of....so lets not play the youth card thats disgraceful we have two player in the rotations that really play a ton of minutes lee and frye and two guys that get spot minutes balkman and nate.....

Excuses are for losers, so keep making them

We haven't made big progress in four seasons under isiah, and the measuring stick is last year, what a ****ing joke

We are not as young as you make the team out to be
kam77
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2/20/2007  5:19 PM
True, i did say you're not comparing equal teams, but i went on to conclude that we'll likely end up this season no worse record wise than any of those 23, 33, 39 win teams.
Obviously, you're not comparing equivalent teams since almost half the team wasn't even here two years ago and have never won more than 23 games together. But certainly we are going to reverse the trend of losing more games every year. We should surpass the 33 victories from two years ago or as I like to call it, 2004-2005 B.C. (before curry). And we will challenge the record of the 2003-2004 squad that wound up with 39.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
kam77
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2/20/2007  5:21 PM
MS - what progresss were we making 4 years ago? Did we have an established core? Did we have an established marquee player? Did we have a go-to guy? A style of play? A late game hero?

You root for the ghost of what never was i guess.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
islesfan
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2/20/2007  5:25 PM
Posted by kam77:

True, i did say you're not comparing equal teams, but i went on to conclude that we'll likely end up this season no worse record wise than any of those 23, 33, 39 win teams.

Whew, that's comforting to know that we still suck just as much as we did in years that were bad enough to cost all 3 head coaches their job.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
kam77
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2/20/2007  5:31 PM
Yes we suck the same record-wise and money was spent, but the team is MUCH YOUNGER and has POTENTIAL. The team you're comparing to was NOT going to win 39 games again, those guys were on the downside.

Agree at least with me there?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
nyk4ever
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2/20/2007  5:39 PM
Posted by kam77:

Yes we suck the same record-wise and money was spent, but the team is MUCH YOUNGER and has POTENTIAL. The team you're comparing to was NOT going to win 39 games again, those guys were on the downside.

Agree at least with me there?

What is the potential of this team? Just because some of the players are young doesn't mean they have potential. Lee is good, you're right about his potential, other than that...Frye is a bust, Balkman can only play in a run&gun, Curry is one-dimensional. Are we talking about potential to end up in the lottery(as if we'd be so lucky for Isiah to not trade our lottery picks away)
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
kam77
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2/20/2007  5:44 PM
nyk4ever,

i'll try to have a discussion with you, but if you are going to say things like "Frye is a bust", i don't see how we can ever have a real discussion.

you may not like his game, but he at least can be traded for something that is valuable. your attitude of the knicks having no useful pieces makes it difficult for me to try and talk to you. its like i'm talking to a bulls fan or a lakers fan and they just wanna bag the players on the knicks.

if you're the Knicks GM, are you going to approach the negotiating table with the Jerry Wests of the world with that attitude? ".. okay,,., this guy Frye is a total bust, i want him off my team, what say we try and work a deal Jerry..."
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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