[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

This sporting news guy kills Isiah and the Knicks. Ouch
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 5 of 5 « First‹ Previous 3  4  5 
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Solace
Posts: 30002
Alba Posts: 20
Joined: 10/30/2003
Member: #479
USA
1/19/2007  8:29 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Solace - who is your model NBA General Manager?

I'm not going to talk ideals, but some of the ones I've really been impressed with are Dumars, Vanderweigh, Colangelo, Riley. Also have been very impressed with what Dallas has done in its management over the last 6 or 7 years. Dumars, aside from the drafting of Darko over Melo, was almost flawless for a few years. Very impressive.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
AUTOADVERT
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
1/19/2007  8:32 AM
Solace - if I'm not mistaken, Shandon Anderson was not acquired via a trade. He was a free agent signing.

Clarence Weatherspoon was a dinosuar. A 6'5 forward in an era where forwards were much taller cats and suddenly running the floor with the skill sets of guards. The Euro forwards were on the way and the game passed Clarence by in a flash. Not of much use.

Howard Eisley was another of Layden's Utah dudes that didn't amount to much on the court at any price.

Bring back Felton Spencer!

[Edited by - misterearl on 01-19-2007 08:32 AM]
once a knick always a knick
Solace
Posts: 30002
Alba Posts: 20
Joined: 10/30/2003
Member: #479
USA
1/19/2007  9:30 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Solace - if I'm not mistaken, Shandon Anderson was not acquired via a trade. He was a free agent signing.

Sign-and-trade. Technically I consider that a trade, since we would not have been able to acquire him without intervention from the Rockets. Bad move any way you want to slice it, no argument.
Posted by misterearl:

Clarence Weatherspoon was a dinosuar. A 6'5 forward in an era where forwards were much taller cats and suddenly running the floor with the skill sets of guards. The Euro forwards were on the way and the game passed Clarence by in a flash. Not of much use.

Howard Eisley was another of Layden's Utah dudes that didn't amount to much on the court at any price.

Bring back Felton Spencer!

Spoon was 6'7" and the team did well when he was on the court. He was just a role player, though. And dinosaur? I think he was 31 when we signed him. Not quite ancient at the time. Eisley I thought played well for his role.

The problem with guys like Spoon, Eisley, Anderson, was that they were getting more playing time than they should've. These are 7th, 8th, 9th men on a good team. On the Knicks, they were 4th, 5th and 6th men, because we weren't that great. Those aren't bad pieces on the right team, though.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
1/19/2007  9:53 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Solace - if I'm not mistaken, Shandon Anderson was not acquired via a trade. He was a free agent signing.

Clarence Weatherspoon was a dinosuar. A 6'5 forward in an era where forwards were much taller cats and suddenly running the floor with the skill sets of guards. The Euro forwards were on the way and the game passed Clarence by in a flash. Not of much use.

Howard Eisley was another of Layden's Utah dudes that didn't amount to much on the court at any price.

Bring back Felton Spencer!

here's the greatest move in nba history:

August 10 2001
Traded forward Glen Rice to the Houston Rockets and guard Muggsy Bogues to the Dallas Mavericks for guard Howard Eisley from the Dallas Mavericks and forward Shandon Anderson from the Houston Rockets.
JesseDark
Posts: 22829
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/9/2003
Member: #467
1/19/2007  10:36 AM
I think the article skews the facts to the conclusion he wants to draw. For instance the q/a about Patrick. He states that Checketts and Van Gundy forced the Ewing trade. It was Patrick and his agent who asked to be traded.
Also in the q/a about Larry Brown. He says that Isiah should be whacked for throwing 50 mill at him. Can you imagine the outrage if he didn't pursue Larry Brown?
Bring back dee-fense
buddapaw
Posts: 23218
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 2/22/2006
Member: #1101
1/19/2007  11:28 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by buddapaw:



C'mon Amare and Artest are proven commodities, can you say the same about Bynum and Williams? What have they done so far? I call a spade a spade my friend. Double standard? where. Your main points are that Layden bringing in good players like Weatherspoon, Van Horn, Mutombo. Yeah I with you there sheesh
if your calling a spade a spade what have Curry, Crawford, Francis, Marbury, Jerome, JJSkinny or anyone else Isiah has brought in done in this league?
Marbury and Francis were all stars once weren't they? Curry is improving, Crawford I personally can't stand; James played well his contract year and Isiah got chumped it happens every year. JJskinny hasn't even played twenty games yet. So what's your point we should have stucked with Layden? Should we have stayed with Larry Brown?(personally I never liked the guy -never wanted him here in the first place)
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
1/19/2007  11:31 AM
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by buddapaw:



C'mon Amare and Artest are proven commodities, can you say the same about Bynum and Williams? What have they done so far? I call a spade a spade my friend. Double standard? where. Your main points are that Layden bringing in good players like Weatherspoon, Van Horn, Mutombo. Yeah I with you there sheesh
if your calling a spade a spade what have Curry, Crawford, Francis, Marbury, Jerome, JJSkinny or anyone else Isiah has brought in done in this league?
Marbury and Francis were all stars once weren't they? Curry is improving, Crawford I personally can't stand; James played well his contract year and Isiah got chumped it happens every year. JJskinny hasn't even played twenty games yet. So what's your point we should have stucked with Layden? Should we have stayed with Larry Brown?(personally I never liked the guy -never wanted him here in the first place)

fish has been bitter like this ever since they fired john mcleod and traded brian quinett.
fishmike
Posts: 53903
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/19/2007  1:14 PM
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by buddapaw:



C'mon Amare and Artest are proven commodities, can you say the same about Bynum and Williams? What have they done so far? I call a spade a spade my friend. Double standard? where. Your main points are that Layden bringing in good players like Weatherspoon, Van Horn, Mutombo. Yeah I with you there sheesh
if your calling a spade a spade what have Curry, Crawford, Francis, Marbury, Jerome, JJSkinny or anyone else Isiah has brought in done in this league?
Marbury and Francis were all stars once weren't they? Curry is improving, Crawford I personally can't stand; James played well his contract year and Isiah got chumped it happens every year. JJskinny hasn't even played twenty games yet. So what's your point we should have stucked with Layden? Should we have stayed with Larry Brown?(personally I never liked the guy -never wanted him here in the first place)
look again at my question:
what have Curry, Crawford, Francis, Marbury, Jerome, JJSkinny or anyone else Isiah has brought in done in this league?

Did Marbury and Francis go to more all star games than Allan Houston or Dikembe Mutumbo?

Isiah brought in a slew of guys who have accomplished nothing in this league, except lose a lot of games and collect huge paychecks.

Jerome James NEVER put up good stats FYI.

Do I think we should have stuck w/ Layden? God no... I was leading the charge to have him replaced. All I am saying is if you calling a spade a spade Isiah has been brutal, and certainly close to being as bad as Layden. That people around here that defend Isiah are being hypocritical, because the same things previous guys are killed for Isiah gets a pass on.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
buddapaw
Posts: 23218
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 2/22/2006
Member: #1101
1/19/2007  2:21 PM
I'm giving Thomas the benefit of the doubt because he has brought somethings to Knick that I have not seen in years which is youth. For years we have suffered with the mirage of being "this Close" to winning it all. We could have found the compliment Ewing within the draft but chose to get over the hill and injured player for our draft picks. All of that caught up to us and for the first time since forever we have what may be considered a young team. Layden was a moron who tried to create the New York Jazz
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
fishmike
Posts: 53903
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/19/2007  2:40 PM
every team has youth. Your SUPPOSED to use the draft to add players. Thats why every team gets to pick. The Clippers have been mismanaged for 20 years, but they always had youth. So what?
When you look at the number of mistakes Isiah has made, and the kind of mistakes he has made, how anyone can give him a pass is beyond me.

Here is what Isiah has going for him:
He followed one of the few GMs in sport who was actually worse than he is.
He's waived, or is in the process of waiving about $60mm of his own mistakes
He's playing in a conference where 5 or 6 teams are playing .500 or better. This notion that we are "in it" has nothing to do with Isiah's success as a GM

So we can pretend that we are right there with other teams in the conference.
We can pretend that winning 35, 38 or even 40 games is a wonderful improvement.
We can pretend Jalen Rose, Mo Taylor, Vin Baker, Jerome James or the picks we gave up never happened

I'm glad a lot of our guys are improving and playing better. I'm glad Curry is scoring the way he is. I'm glad Lee's turning into a stud right before our eyes. I'm glad that despite all our issues we arent bickering. I'm glad we have some guys who can finish and win some games late. I'm glad stinkbury is playing defense like everyone thought he could.

I'm not happy because I know with just some normal management skills we could be much further along, and I dont trust Isiah to make future personnel decisions, any more than I trust George W's assessment of our needs in Iraq.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30353
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
1/19/2007  5:08 PM
I dont trust Isiah to make future personnel decisions, any more than I trust George W's assessment of our needs in Iraq.

Thats the thing. Im not going to stress his past moves. Because they could have all still worked. Other than the James & Taylor moves. If Houston was allways healthy we are a different team.

I want to look more toward what we have now and where we could go from here. This season should all be about finding out what we have in Curry,Frye,Lee. Next season as well until we feel good about making a honest assestment. The next 2 seasons we can unload some serious money off this cap. And know what we have in Curry, Frye, Lee, Balkman, Nate.

If they are keepers then we build around/with them. If they aren't then we have value pieces to move. Along with shorter contracts and better cap situation. Meaning a ton of flexability.

Just draft, and let the pieces that are about to expire expire. Aim for that flexability.

Objectively speaking. Isiah has not produced results. And if he was fired I wouldn't really think nothing of it. I just want the GM whoever he is to just draft, let contracts expire, see what we have in the young players. And aim for all the flexability we can have in 2 seasons. If Isiah was willing to do that I would give him a pass for his lack of results just like I would have given to Layden if thats what he was aiming to do when he acquired Milos, Lampe, Sweetney. But again the question is can we trust Isiah to do that. Can we trust Dolan to let Isiah do that. Since he already cost him a few yrs.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
1/21/2007  9:39 PM
The Things Isiah Has going for him are the exact things fishmike lists:

a lot of our guys are improving and playing better. (the exact same guys Isiah Thomas acquired, by the way)

Curry is scoring the way he is. (developing daily under the coaching staff Isiah Thomas hired)

Lee's turning into a stud right before our eyes. ("...with the 30th selection in the draft, the New York Knicks select Dav...."

we arent bickering. (the Knicks are playing with more determination and resolve than they have played with in five years)

we have some guys who can finish and win some games late. (hmmm, just a skootch away from stopping one extra creatve assist and a put back back by Uncle Cliffy and being 20-22... yeah, yeah...

... before you start with the "yeah BUT we are a few games away from being 10-32... think of the WAY the Knicks have played, and hung tough, since the Detroit triple overtime game)

one more thing, forget the personal biases and knocks on his verbal iterations, Marbury has been playing in pain and playing excellent defense
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
1/21/2007  9:55 PM
newyorknewyork - you want the GM to draft and allow contracts to expire and see how the young players develop...?

cool. just remember...

Thomas has cultivated six picks in three drafts that are on active NBA rosters with two from the second round.


The new and improved Ariza

The same Balkman who was booed of draft night

Nate Robinson

Channing "the best is yet to come" Frye

Mister double-double - David Lee

and Mardy "The Hitman" Collins

Now add the trade gamble on the heart of Eddy Curry... and the next time you see Ty Thomas muscled out of the paint... just think...

Now, just for kicks and giggles... just stick a post-it on his creative pickups of Jackie Butler, Ime Udoka and Matt Barnes who are also seeing minutes in other places. oh yeah, Don't forget Camby and McGrady.

That ain't too bad.



The point being (and worth repeating)

If you look at the entire draft history of the Knicks franchise since 1946, one could submit that the brief Isiah Thomas draft resume holds up against any General Manager that preceeded him.

That is a period of over 50 years.






once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
1/21/2007  10:24 PM
earl - is there any way we can just make isiah the draftologist and have another guy handle the trade and free agent aspect of it?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01-21-2007 10:24 PM]
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
1/22/2007  10:44 AM
djsu - visualize a two-headed NBA executive in New York?

Given how the NYC press alternates between their truth and anticipated fiction, visualize two men caught inside a never-ending web of conflicting reports on trade rumors or roster moves.

Is it a sure-fire recipe for disaster

Having the coach and GM on the same page is difficult enough. Why add a third to the mix?
once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
1/22/2007  10:47 AM
Posted by misterearl:

djsu - visualize a two-headed NBA executive in New York?

Given how the NYC press alternates between their truth and anticipated fiction, visualize two men caught inside a never-ending web of conflicting reports on trade rumors or roster moves.

Is it a sure-fire recipe for disaster

Having the coach and GM on the same page is difficult enough. Why add a third to the mix?

yes, tis a very volatile situation.

then can we get isiah a better a support staff and counsel?
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
1/22/2007  11:03 AM
I thought the hire of Kelly Tripucka as a scout was a start

Can we find a gig for Bernard King as jump shot doctor or Bill Bradley as fiscal advisor?
once a knick always a knick
Page 5 of 5 « First‹ Previous 3  4  5 
« Reply To Topic
This sporting news guy kills Isiah and the Knicks. Ouch
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy