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nyk4ever
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1/5/2007  4:51 PM
Posted by holfresh:



Another thing, after watching Portland, no way New York allows what happening in Portland happen in NY....Everyone talks about breaking it down but I don't think they understand what it really means...

Read above post. Just because teams like the Blazers and Hawks have piss poor management and have had serious trouble recovering, should NOT be a reason to not rebuild. These teams wouldn't be going anywhere if they never broke it down because they have poor management and they would be lost anyways. I have confidence that we're going to get a really good basketball guy as the next GM of this team and breaking it down won't be nearly as painful as it has been in Atlanta and Portland.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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holfresh
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1/5/2007  4:54 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:


Without reading most of the post here..I ask DJ or any person who has been asking for this...Do you think the ultimate decision to break it down and get under the cap,get to the lottery,to acquire such a player is Isiah's decision to make?

how about trading for marbury and giving up 2 #1's, trading for curry and giving up 2 #1's, giving jamal crawford a 7 year deal, trading kurt for quentin, giving jeffries 5 years, jerome 5 years, not protecting picks, etc...who made those choices?
Well thats the part of the arguement thats always avoided. You can talk about the 'Dolan mandate' till your blue in the face. It doesnt change the fact that the GM here has made bad trades, poor signing and poor use of what resources were available. DJ.. was Vin Baker in your list? Jerome James? If the Dolan mandate was in full effect how do you trade your only center for Malik Rose?

I call bullspit

Everyone here are always hung up on those signing and it always baffles me...Knicks are in salary cap hell and will remain that way...What difference does it make who they sign for what money???...Argue about the talent not the money paid because it makes no difference...

I thought everyone loved the Malik trade, didn't it yield DLee?...He gets a hit for that too??..Would you trade Nazr for DLee straight up?
newyorknewyork
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1/5/2007  4:55 PM
I really like the fact that Curry gets triple teamed on a consistant basis. And if he has single coverage he is going to drop 25pts. A true franchise player could really use someone like that. But who is to say that Curry doesn't improve even more over the yrs. We definatly need to bring Ewing back to show Curry what it means to be a franchise center.

We need a lanky shotblocker behind him, and another banger at C/F. Then we need outside shooters who can also defend. And an upgrade at PG who can shoot, run an offense and defend.

Then we might be in a winning position. And from a winning position and everyones value high and a position of strength. You will have a better opportunity to get upper tier players.
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Masterplan
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1/5/2007  4:56 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Another thing, after watching Portland, no way New York allows what happening in Portland happen in NY....Everyone talks about breaking it down but I don't think they understand what it really means...

would we hate that anymore than what's going on here now?
BigRedDog
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1/5/2007  5:03 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:


Without reading most of the post here..I ask DJ or any person who has been asking for this...Do you think the ultimate decision to break it down and get under the cap,get to the lottery,to acquire such a player is Isiah's decision to make?

how about trading for marbury and giving up 2 #1's, trading for curry and giving up 2 #1's, giving jamal crawford a 7 year deal, trading kurt for quentin, giving jeffries 5 years, jerome 5 years, not protecting picks, etc...who made those choices?
Well thats the part of the arguement thats always avoided. You can talk about the 'Dolan mandate' till your blue in the face. It doesnt change the fact that the GM here has made bad trades, poor signing and poor use of what resources were available. DJ.. was Vin Baker in your list? Jerome James? If the Dolan mandate was in full effect how do you trade your only center for Malik Rose?

I call bullspit


If I'm not mistaken didn't we get 2 #1 draft picks in that deal and one of them we used to get David Lee?? You can't have it both ways. I know your going to say we could have bought the pick but who knows? I do know Isiah made the trade and got Lee. Give him some credit.
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
holfresh
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1/5/2007  5:05 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:



Another thing, after watching Portland, no way New York allows what happening in Portland happen in NY....Everyone talks about breaking it down but I don't think they understand what it really means...

Read above post. Just because teams like the Blazers and Hawks have piss poor management and have had serious trouble recovering, should NOT be a reason to not rebuild. These teams wouldn't be going anywhere if they never broke it down because they have poor management and they would be lost anyways. I have confidence that we're going to get a really good basketball guy as the next GM of this team and breaking it down won't be nearly as painful as it has been in Atlanta and Portland.

There are more....Clippers,Charlotte, New Orleans,Toronto, Orlando,Chicago,Washington,etc...Some seem to be on their way but they are far from a Championship caliber team...Some teams spend 10-15 years trying to build...You think this won't happen to the Knicks because your team is different...We will have good management that won't let this happen...Remember Orlando was broken down after Shaq left...It took them 9 years to get another player to build around again...It's going to take another 4 or 5 years to compete with the elites....Do you really think this could be done in New York...I don't and frankly I don't think it's worth it...
nyk4ever
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1/5/2007  5:16 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:



Another thing, after watching Portland, no way New York allows what happening in Portland happen in NY....Everyone talks about breaking it down but I don't think they understand what it really means...

Read above post. Just because teams like the Blazers and Hawks have piss poor management and have had serious trouble recovering, should NOT be a reason to not rebuild. These teams wouldn't be going anywhere if they never broke it down because they have poor management and they would be lost anyways. I have confidence that we're going to get a really good basketball guy as the next GM of this team and breaking it down won't be nearly as painful as it has been in Atlanta and Portland.

There are more....Clippers,Charlotte, New Orleans,Toronto, Orlando,Chicago,Washington,etc...Some seem to be on their way but they are far from a Championship caliber team...Some teams spend 10-15 years trying to build...You think this won't happen to the Knicks because your team is different...We will have good management that won't let this happen...Remember Orlando was broken down after Shaq left...It took them 9 years to get another player to build around again...It's going to take another 4 or 5 years to compete with the elites....Do you really think this could be done in New York...I don't and frankly I don't think it's worth it...


Well thats where we differ Hollie.

I'm just happy you finally said the Knicks are "MY" team. It's about time you stopped calling me a Nets fan!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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1/5/2007  5:17 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:



Another thing, after watching Portland, no way New York allows what happening in Portland happen in NY....Everyone talks about breaking it down but I don't think they understand what it really means...

Read above post. Just because teams like the Blazers and Hawks have piss poor management and have had serious trouble recovering, should NOT be a reason to not rebuild. These teams wouldn't be going anywhere if they never broke it down because they have poor management and they would be lost anyways. I have confidence that we're going to get a really good basketball guy as the next GM of this team and breaking it down won't be nearly as painful as it has been in Atlanta and Portland.

There are more....Clippers,Charlotte, New Orleans,Toronto, Orlando,Chicago,Washington,etc...Some seem to be on their way but they are far from a Championship caliber team...Some teams spend 10-15 years trying to build...You think this won't happen to the Knicks because your team is different...We will have good management that won't let this happen...Remember Orlando was broken down after Shaq left...It took them 9 years to get another player to build around again...It's going to take another 4 or 5 years to compete with the elites....Do you really think this could be done in New York...I don't and frankly I don't think it's worth it...


It could be done in NY, just not under Dolan or Cablevision.
djsunyc
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1/5/2007  5:34 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:


Without reading most of the post here..I ask DJ or any person who has been asking for this...Do you think the ultimate decision to break it down and get under the cap,get to the lottery,to acquire such a player is Isiah's decision to make?

how about trading for marbury and giving up 2 #1's, trading for curry and giving up 2 #1's, giving jamal crawford a 7 year deal, trading kurt for quentin, giving jeffries 5 years, jerome 5 years, not protecting picks, etc...who made those choices?
Well thats the part of the arguement thats always avoided. You can talk about the 'Dolan mandate' till your blue in the face. It doesnt change the fact that the GM here has made bad trades, poor signing and poor use of what resources were available. DJ.. was Vin Baker in your list? Jerome James? If the Dolan mandate was in full effect how do you trade your only center for Malik Rose?

I call bullspit
gunsnewing
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1/5/2007  5:40 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:


Without reading most of the post here..I ask DJ or any person who has been asking for this...Do you think the ultimate decision to break it down and get under the cap,get to the lottery,to acquire such a player is Isiah's decision to make?

how about trading for marbury and giving up 2 #1's, trading for curry and giving up 2 #1's, giving jamal crawford a 7 year deal, trading kurt for quentin, giving jeffries 5 years, jerome 5 years, not protecting picks, etc...who made those choices?
Well thats the part of the arguement thats always avoided. You can talk about the 'Dolan mandate' till your blue in the face. It doesnt change the fact that the GM here has made bad trades, poor signing and poor use of what resources were available. DJ.. was Vin Baker in your list? Jerome James? If the Dolan mandate was in full effect how do you trade your only center for Malik Rose?

I call bullspit



that clip was after the embarassing loss to Sacramento. I wanted to throw up
newyorknewyork
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1/5/2007  5:49 PM
I think im a very understanding person. But I still don't know what he was thinking when he signed Jerome James to that contract. Thats something I will never understand. Especially when he could have signed Diop or Hunter for way less. The only thing I can think of is that he severly got fooled by James 17-9 playoff performance vs the Kings.

Other than Mo Taylor. I pretty much understand his other moves. Though that doesn't mean they were good moves.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
holfresh
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1/5/2007  5:51 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I think im a very understanding person. But I still don't know what he was thinking when he signed Jerome James to that contract. Thats something I will never understand. Especially when he could have signed Diop or Hunter for way less. The only thing I can think of is that he severly got fooled by James 17-9 playoff performance vs the Kings.

Other than Mo Taylor. I pretty much understand his other moves. Though that doesn't mean they were good moves.

OK mr. understanding...explain how you sign a guy that avg 1 pt and 2 reb a game and present this as your starting center?
SlimPack
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1/5/2007  5:54 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:



Another thing, after watching Portland, no way New York allows what happening in Portland happen in NY....Everyone talks about breaking it down but I don't think they understand what it really means...

Read above post. Just because teams like the Blazers and Hawks have piss poor management and have had serious trouble recovering, should NOT be a reason to not rebuild. These teams wouldn't be going anywhere if they never broke it down because they have poor management and they would be lost anyways. I have confidence that we're going to get a really good basketball guy as the next GM of this team and breaking it down won't be nearly as painful as it has been in Atlanta and Portland.

There are more....Clippers,Charlotte, New Orleans,Toronto, Orlando,Chicago,Washington,etc...Some seem to be on their way but they are far from a Championship caliber team...Some teams spend 10-15 years trying to build...You think this won't happen to the Knicks because your team is different...We will have good management that won't let this happen...Remember Orlando was broken down after Shaq left...It took them 9 years to get another player to build around again...It's going to take another 4 or 5 years to compete with the elites....Do you really think this could be done in New York...I don't and frankly I don't think it's worth it...


is that really true about orlando? btw clippers is a bad choice becuase there gm didnt care about winning, only making money, and the bobcats, hornets, raptors, and bulls all have better futures than us so i dont see why you'd mention them. not so sure about washington though. they're a better team than us obviously but Im not sure about where they are headed as a franchise, but I think that they are in a better position than us since theyre players have higher trade value becuase they arent a losing team and arent overpaid like almost all of our players are.
newyorknewyork
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1/5/2007  5:55 PM
explain how you sign a guy that avg 1 pt and 2 reb a game and present this as your starting center?

Easy! you contact his agent. Offer him money that is more than any other team is willing to offer. And then have a press confrence to inform the world.

In all seriousness. Which center are you refering to?
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
holfresh
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1/5/2007  6:04 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:



Another thing, after watching Portland, no way New York allows what happening in Portland happen in NY....Everyone talks about breaking it down but I don't think they understand what it really means...

Read above post. Just because teams like the Blazers and Hawks have piss poor management and have had serious trouble recovering, should NOT be a reason to not rebuild. These teams wouldn't be going anywhere if they never broke it down because they have poor management and they would be lost anyways. I have confidence that we're going to get a really good basketball guy as the next GM of this team and breaking it down won't be nearly as painful as it has been in Atlanta and Portland.

There are more....Clippers,Charlotte, New Orleans,Toronto, Orlando,Chicago,Washington,etc...Some seem to be on their way but they are far from a Championship caliber team...Some teams spend 10-15 years trying to build...You think this won't happen to the Knicks because your team is different...We will have good management that won't let this happen...Remember Orlando was broken down after Shaq left...It took them 9 years to get another player to build around again...It's going to take another 4 or 5 years to compete with the elites....Do you really think this could be done in New York...I don't and frankly I don't think it's worth it...


is that really true about orlando? btw clippers is a bad choice becuase there gm didnt care about winning, only making money, and the bobcats, hornets, raptors, and bulls all have better futures than us so i dont see why you'd mention them. not so sure about washington though. they're a better team than us obviously but Im not sure about where they are headed as a franchise, but I think that they are in a better position than us since theyre players have higher trade value becuase they arent a losing team and arent overpaid like almost all of our players are.

I mention them because as of today they are not on the road to a Championship...All those teams have tried to rebuild by the draft and cap moves....
holfresh
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1/5/2007  6:07 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
explain how you sign a guy that avg 1 pt and 2 reb a game and present this as your starting center?

Easy! you contact his agent. Offer him money that is more than any other team is willing to offer. And then have a press confrence to inform the world.

In all seriousness. Which center are you refering to?

Diop...avg 1 pt and 2 reb his free agent year....Hunter was good with PHX but wasn't a starter and too skinny to man the middle...



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-05-2007 6:08 PM]
SlimPack
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1/5/2007  6:15 PM
Posted by holfresh:



I mention them because as of today they are not on the road to a Championship...All those teams have tried to rebuild by the draft and cap moves....


how can you say they arent on the road? I wouldnt necesarily say that. but theyre a heck of alot closer than us thats for sure.

and as for orlando they didnt try to rebuild immediately after shaq left. they tried to still "win now" for 3 years with penny hardaway but it didnt work, so finally they rebuilt in the 98-99 season. that may not have resulted in a championship but Id still say it was a more succseeful strategy than Isiah's as they were able to draft mike miller, as well as sign tracy mcgrady and grant hill with all the cap space they cleared. so its not exactly as though they were rebuilding for 9 years and it took them that long to wind up with dwight howard. in fact, the magic werent even rebuilding when they drafted howard, the only reason they were able to draft him is becuase they only won 21 games that year due to tmac not caring anymore, and grant hill's injuries.



[Edited by - slimpack on 01-05-2007 6:34 PM]
holfresh
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1/5/2007  6:55 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by holfresh:



I mention them because as of today they are not on the road to a Championship...All those teams have tried to rebuild by the draft and cap moves....


how can you say they arent on the road? I wouldnt necesarily say that. but theyre a heck of alot closer than us thats for sure.

and as for orlando they didnt try to rebuild immediately after shaq left. they tried to still "win now" for 3 years with penny hardaway but it didnt work, so finally they rebuilt in the 98-99 season. that may not have resulted in a championship but Id still say it was a more succseeful strategy than Isiah's as they were able to draft mike miller, as well as sign tracy mcgrady and grant hill with all the cap space they cleared. so its not exactly as though they were rebuilding for 9 years and it took them that long to wind up with dwight howard. in fact, the magic werent even rebuilding when they drafted howard, the only reason they were able to draft him is becuase they only won 21 games that year due to tmac not caring anymore, and grant hill's injuries.



[Edited by - slimpack on 01-05-2007 6:34 PM]

For 9 years they use the cap and draft strategy to get back to the championship and it didn't work...Your time line probably began when Penny was traded but they entire world knew that Penny alone wasn't winning one for you...To say they tried to build around Penny and win now I think is wrong...

Sure you can say Orlando and the others are on better footing..But as a Knick fan, will you be willing to post good things in these forum for 9 years with no hopes of a Championship for the chance to land someone like D Howard??...I'll take my chances with Curry...



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-05-2007 6:55 PM]
nyk4ever
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1/5/2007  8:06 PM
Posted by holfresh:



I mention them because as of today they are not on the road to a Championship...All those teams have tried to rebuild by the draft and cap moves....


What are you talking about that they aren't on the road to winning a championship. They have 2 componenets that are necessary: a big man and a point guard. They currently boast a 19-14 record and when Grant Hill comes off the cap this year they are going to have a ton of salary cap space to go and find the missing 3rd component. They are WELL on their way to a championship
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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1/5/2007  8:14 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:



I mention them because as of today they are not on the road to a Championship...All those teams have tried to rebuild by the draft and cap moves....


What are you talking about that they aren't on the road to winning a championship. They have 2 componenets that are necessary: a big man and a point guard. They currently boast a 19-14 record and when Grant Hill comes off the cap this year they are going to have a ton of salary cap space to go and find the missing 3rd component. They are WELL on their way to a championship

How long after Shaq would say before they could or would become a legitimate contender again?...What like 15 years?



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-05-2007 8:14 PM]

[Edited by - holfresh on 01-05-2007 8:15 PM]
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