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Treatment of David Lee


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islesfan
Posts: 11474
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
Which coach did the following to David Lee: - Jerked his minutes around - Pulled him in and out of the starting lineup - Took away his starting spot despite clearly outplaying the player who replaced him - Badmouthed his game to the media, saying that he has no offensive game to speak of
Larry Brown
Isiah Thomas
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Author Thread
izybx
Posts: 22366
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Joined: 10/16/2006
Member: #1178
USA
1/2/2007  4:20 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

David Lee 2005-2006 16.48mins per game, 67games out of 82.

David Lee 2006-2007 30.00mins per game, 33games out of 33.

Another observation. When Brown left Lee for dead on the bench. You same most Anti Isiah posters defended Brown for it. Not because Brown was right just because to you Brown can't do no wrong. But yet Isiah close to doubles his mins and plays him every game. And your critiquing Isiah's treatment of Lee.

While I agree that Lee should start, and should get 30+ mins per game. So don't think im changing my tune on Lee because Isiah is now the coach like you guys do. But why was Brown right for leaving Lee for dead on the bench with 16.48mins per game.(mostly garbage time since we got blown out so much last season) & 15 DNPs when he was clearly better than the other options other than Frye. But Isiah is wrong for not playing him 30+mins and not starting him.

I think it has more to do with the amount of respect that Lee has earned, I think we all feel that he simply needs to be on the floor as much as possible, its the kind of thing where a player is so good, that if hes not playing without a specific reason given (foul trouble, fatigue, injury) than we are all going to demand answers...Fact is, Lee needs to play REGARDLESS OF MATCHUPS.
Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
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King1
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Member: #998
USA
1/2/2007  5:06 PM
If what Lee is doing so easy in getting a double-double why is only 10 players in the whole league averging one. Not saying he is a top player but he can even start on a really bad team.
Ray15
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1/2/2007  6:33 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Ray15:
Posted by holfresh:


Come on dude DLee does not get treated bad...I'm amazed he doesn't get benched for not playing defense on outside shooter...For now Zeke gives him a pass...But he clearly doesn't run out to three point shooters...He basket hangs for the rebounds...I like the guy but to say he is treated badly, come on....



What a joke. You want Lee to get benched for not running out to 3 point shooters? We wouldn't be able to play games if we were going to bench guys for not playing defense.

Your boy Frye is putrid. When we try to hide his defensive flaws by putting him at the top of the zone he just lolly-gagged around waiving his arms. I think it was in the Detroit game where we tried this for all of 5 possessions before we realized it couldn't work -- Billups had a 3 Frye half-heartedly closed out, Billups pump faked, and Frye ran by and made on attempt to hustle back and recover. At least Lee has quick enough feet to guard post players. Frye is so damn flat footed that when a post player squares up, he gets beat so cleanly.

Forget about Curry on the defensive end.

What about Crawford? He is so miserable one-on-one that it forces Marbury to guard guys like RIP. It's not like RIP blows Craw away in the weight room so I don't understand why he can't stay with him.

Even Jefferies (who I thought was a good signing but I'm afraid I was wrong) isn't doing anything defensively.

Lee gives us more than anybody on this team. He puts up 11ppg with zero plays run for him. He gives us so many extra opportunities and takes second chances away from the opposition. Give him 40mpg and he's an allstar next season -- it's as simple as that. Not to mention the fact that he's the only one of our youngsters who CLEARLY worked on his game during the offseason -- you don't go from an awful free throw shooter to close to 80% without putting in tons of time. That baseline jumper is going to be developed next year and I am extremely worried Isiah will trade him.

Are you really giving Frye sheit for not being able to guard Billups on tne perimeter? You keep picking stellar game to knock people...If I remember, Frye hit some clutch shots in that game..Didn't he have like 26 or something like that...He play the top of the key in the zone because Detroit is a very good three point shooting team...You needs some work on your game analysis bro...Isn't Frye our best shot blocker..Why would Isiah pull him form the post to play the top of the key if it wasn't necessary...



[Edited by - holfresh on 01-02-2007 1:21 PM]


Yeah he hit big shots in that game. Why does that blind you from all the things he didn't do well? If you remember correctly, the night that David Lee won the game with the tip in and pulled down 19 rebounds, I said he could've played much better. He didn't have the normal quickness off the floor to pull down rebounds and I said he should've ended the game with 25 boards -- even pointing to a play where he got out hustled on an easy rebound and ended up turning the ball over.

David Lee is by far my favorite player on this team because he does all the little things and reminds me how much fun it was to be a Knick fan in the 90's. However, that doesn't blind me when he could've played better -- even when he pulls down 19 boards and wins the game for us.

And on that specific Frye play, it was by no means not being able to guard Billups. Billups stood still at the top of the key, pump faked, and then shot the 3. The reason I was so pissed with Frye is because he showed a lack of effort recovering. Billups didn't move his damn feet and Frye doesn't get his 7 foot wing span in his face? C'mon, the guy shows all the effort on one side of the floor and then just gives up sometimes on the other. Watch objectively and maybe you won't be blinded by your love affair with him. And don't think I'm taking anything away from Frye offensively -- he's been spectacular since coming back from the injury -- I just wish he would show the effort on both sides of the ball.

You claimed I don't watch the games because it couldn't have been Frye who was getting outrebounded due to being at the top of the zone. However, we were in that zone for all of 5 possessions that game. I'm starting to wonder if you watch the entire game.
Defense and Toughness
Ray15
Posts: 20281
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Joined: 4/29/2004
Member: #668
1/2/2007  6:35 PM
No. Why go away from what works. I think it should be Curry, Frye, Lee, Craw, Steph. That team played really really well together. Bring Jefferies off the bench. The lineup still is somewhat flawed but for now, it's the best we got.
Posted by Michael6835:
Posted by Ray15:
Posted by holfresh:


Come on dude DLee does not get treated bad...I'm amazed he doesn't get benched for not playing defense on outside shooter...For now Zeke gives him a pass...But he clearly doesn't run out to three point shooters...He basket hangs for the rebounds...I like the guy but to say he is treated badly, come on....



What a joke. You want Lee to get benched for not running out to 3 point shooters? We wouldn't be able to play games if we were going to bench guys for not playing defense.

Your boy Frye is putrid. When we try to hide his defensive flaws by putting him at the top of the zone he just lolly-gagged around waiving his arms. I think it was in the Detroit game where we tried this for all of 5 possessions before we realized it couldn't work -- Billups had a 3 Frye half-heartedly closed out, Billups pump faked, and Frye ran by and made on attempt to hustle back and recover. At least Lee has quick enough feet to guard post players. Frye is so damn flat footed that when a post player squares up, he gets beat so cleanly.

Forget about Curry on the defensive end.

What about Crawford? He is so miserable one-on-one that it forces Marbury to guard guys like RIP. It's not like RIP blows Craw away in the weight room so I don't understand why he can't stay with him.

Even Jefferies (who I thought was a good signing but I'm afraid I was wrong) isn't doing anything defensively.

Lee gives us more than anybody on this team. He puts up 11ppg with zero plays run for him. He gives us so many extra opportunities and takes second chances away from the opposition. Give him 40mpg and he's an allstar next season -- it's as simple as that. Not to mention the fact that he's the only one of our youngsters who CLEARLY worked on his game during the offseason -- you don't go from an awful free throw shooter to close to 80% without putting in tons of time. That baseline jumper is going to be developed next year and I am extremely worried Isiah will trade him.

You miss the point. no one on this board will argue with you. DLEE is the man and plays well, and probably should start. But what would the lineup be, if you started LEE now.
Curry,LEE,Jeffries,Craw,Steph.

Great so now instead of sending one man to double Eddy, they can send 2. Because no one has to d lee of jeffries!

Defense and Toughness
Ray15
Posts: 20281
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Joined: 4/29/2004
Member: #668
1/2/2007  6:38 PM
Posted by bigbeast:

D Lee is averaging 30 mins per game. I fail to see where Isiah is jerking him around. Lee only started out of necessity because of injuries and suspensions. BTW, Lee usually finishes games. Who cares if he starts as long as he gets his minutes.


The fact is Lee would still be averaging 25 per game if it wasn't for the suspensions and all the OT games he played close to 50 mpg. Interesting that when he plays close to the entire game, we win more often than not. If Jefferies didn't get hurt preseason, what do you think Lee would average - 20 mpg?

The guys is our best/most consistent player and gets jerked in and out of the starting lineup, plays 8 mins in the first half when we come out flat, lacking energy. Please.
Defense and Toughness
Treatment of David Lee

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