i don't think anyone is buying into Isiah's act, or really think that he's done a great job as a Knicks' GM... some of us are just objective & choose to give him credit for some of the positive moves he's made as a GM at times, like some of his draft choices & 1 or 2 of his positive trades (Q Rich for example)... just because we don't engage in bashing the guy on every other thread doesn't mean we don't recognize the mistakes he's made as the GM.

Posted by TMS:

i don't think anyone is buying into Isiah's act, or really think that he's done a great job as a Knicks' GM... some of us are just objective & choose to give him credit for some of the positive moves he's made as a GM at times, like some of his draft choices & 1 or 2 of his positive trades (Q Rich for example)... just because we don't engage in bashing the guy on every other thread doesn't mean we don't recognize the mistakes he's made as the GM.

*shrug* You enjoy the team we have out on the court. I like maybe 3-4 players on the team, another 3 I'm indifferent about, and the rest I flat out do not care for at all. Many of the fans feel this way. The Garden is hitting all-time attendance lows. Our record is challenging all-time lows. There's a lot more negatives than there are positives. Somehow a few good draft picks, to go with 9 or 10 bad trades, and all of the disgusting things I just mentioned just aren't enough to balance out.

This isn't a glass half-empty, glass half-full type of thing. I see the scenario more like this: I see the glass as 90% empty. But from how you sound, you may see the glass as 50% full (correct me if I'm wrong). That's a major difference of opinion.

Posted by TMS:

to hear all the disappointment & resentment from alot of you guys it would seem your expectations for this season were alot higher than mine.

That's just it. We hung our expectations on more than a single season. We're a worse team than we were three years ago, and we're on track, in three years, to be about as good as we were three years ago. Some would call that six years with no progress. Things are bleak. I'm not that disappointed in the team this year. I knew a certain group was bums and they've played like it. I knew we had no stars and they've played like a team with no stars. I'm disappointed in the foolish GM who actually thought that this group of misfits was a good team to build around. I'm disappointed in having three fake stars on this team. Again, from my view, we played the stocks, we bet on a few stocks that looked good (to some) and tanked (Marbury, Francis and arguably Curry). We bet on a few others that haven't been up to par either (Crawford, etc...). We bet on a few that were outright overpriced ones (Jerome James, Mo Taylor). But, a few penny stocks worked in our favor, so all is forgiven, because Isiah's a master of picking the penny stocks? No. I don't think so. This team is an embarassment. It's easy to be disappointed and mad under the circumstances. In another sport, maybe Isiah's strategy would've worked. In baseball, if you throw big money at free agents every year, you can build a contender (even if it may hurt the team in a long run). Basketball doesn't work that way, because of the salary cap. Every single basketball person realized that you can't run a team like a Playstation game, except for Isiah Thomas.

[Edited by - Solace on 08-12-2006 1:41 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by TMS:

to hear all the disappointment & resentment from alot of you guys it would seem your expectations for this season were alot higher than mine.

Every single basketball person realized that you can't run a team like a Playstation game, except for Isiah Thomas.
[Edited by - Solace on 08-12-2006 1:41 PM]

Your forgetting MustafaB

Hahahaha. So true. "I like Jerome James, because I turned on my playstation, and I was able to back down smaller centers and score inside. I scored 20 points in one game"

Us: "But... it's a video game"

Mustafaab: "Playstation 2 is a well-known expert simulation of real basketball situations."

Mustafaab: "Don't forget, we need battle-tested playoff veterans and a 10 man rotation."

Posted by eViL:

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by holfresh:

I'm always amazed that no matter how piss poor the job Larry has done with the Knicks, fans here somehow are still riding his jock...



[Edited by - holfresh on 12-06-2006 11:31 PM]

Typical. Missed the point entirely because his hatred for Larry is so strong.

How about this, replace Larry's name with Don Chaney's name. Or how about Lenny Wilkens' name? Or maybe Herb Williams' name? It works with any of them.

I get ur trying to diss Isiah's poor construction of this roster...It's just over a month into the season and ur whining and moaning not even giving the team a chance to gel...

We're more than a quarter of the way through the season now. We're on pace for 28 wins.

You are really distorting the math there. You can always look at a teams record and then project out. But, look at Chicago, not that long ago they were playing really bad, no offense from the center position, but now they are kicking out wins. If you would have "projected" them out, you would have gotten... 28 wins. But now?

You need to look deeper. We are playing better, we are in most games. Our record may be comparable to last years, but not our play, especially from the center position. We have got Jefferies coming back soon. Things can change in a heartbeat. I will say that we need to turn things around soon. 1/4 of the way through the season is a good point to start at, as we will see the fruits of our labor.

To go into my happiness/unhappiness with the team, I'd say I'm sad with certain players. I like the fact that most are playing hard, but the defense is just killing us. Again, looking forward to when Jefferies gets back. Looking forward to Collins defending. Things may end up crappy for us, but I have a feeling we will do all right. I DON'T want to see Chicago get a high lottery pick from us, that will probably put me in your camp... I'm just not ready yet...

EMS

Posted by eViL:

Posted by earthmansurfer:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by holfresh:

I'm always amazed that no matter how piss poor the job Larry has done with the Knicks, fans here somehow are still riding his jock...



[Edited by - holfresh on 12-06-2006 11:31 PM]

Typical. Missed the point entirely because his hatred for Larry is so strong.

How about this, replace Larry's name with Don Chaney's name. Or how about Lenny Wilkens' name? Or maybe Herb Williams' name? It works with any of them.

I get ur trying to diss Isiah's poor construction of this roster...It's just over a month into the season and ur whining and moaning not even giving the team a chance to gel...

We're more than a quarter of the way through the season now. We're on pace for 28 wins.

You are really distorting the math there. You can always look at a teams record and then project out. But, look at Chicago, not that long ago they were playing really bad, no offense from the center position, but now they are kicking out wins. If you would have "projected" them out, you would have gotten... 28 wins. But now?

You need to look deeper. We are playing better, we are in most games. Our record may be comparable to last years, but not our play, especially from the center position. We have got Jefferies coming back soon. Things can change in a heartbeat. I will say that we need to turn things around soon. 1/4 of the way through the season is a good point to start at, as we will see the fruits of our labor.

To go into my happiness/unhappiness with the team, I'd say I'm sad with certain players. I like the fact that most are playing hard, but the defense is just killing us. Again, looking forward to when Jefferies gets back. Looking forward to Collins defending. Things may end up crappy for us, but I have a feeling we will do all right. I DON'T want to see Chicago get a high lottery pick from us, that will probably put me in your camp... I'm just not ready yet...

EMS

I don't think we're playing better than last year. So far, this year -- we are still wildly inconsistent. And while our C is putting up better numbers, other players are playing much worse. So it's a wash. Our young guys have improved. Our vets have deteriorated. At least we put up a six-game win streak last year. And I'm not distorting any math. I just multiplied our wins by four. I said we were on pace for 28 wins. I didn't say we were definitely going to win 28 games. Who knows maybe we'll win 32 or 33 -- then we can all be happy!!

Yeah, some players are playing worse. Crawford comes to mind. Damn, I wish he was going back to the mid range jumpshots. Remember that? He has a great one and he can take it at will. He isn't consistent from the outside, so he might as well go back to it. I'm dying to see Collins get some minutes. The conspiracy guy in me says he isn't cause he will so severely outplay the other two "point guards" that it will put Isiah in a bad place

Regarding distorting the math, I see your point, but do you see what I'm saying? The season changes, just like a game does. You can have a really bad first quarter but that second quarter can change things and carry on into the next few quarters. Think of the first quarter as two key players got into foul trouble (Frye and Jefferies) so we played small. This might help us in the later quarters cause guys like Balkman got some playing time, did well and can contribute if needed later in the game/season.

I'm not happy to see the inconsistent play, it really sucks to not get a feeling of better or worse. We had three 20 point wins so far! and then a loss! Once we turn it around it can be like dominos falling. The thing is we are sort of hovering in the middle, we need to fall in the right direction.

EMS

Posted by earthmansurfer:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by earthmansurfer:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by holfresh:

I'm always amazed that no matter how piss poor the job Larry has done with the Knicks, fans here somehow are still riding his jock...



[Edited by - holfresh on 12-06-2006 11:31 PM]

Typical. Missed the point entirely because his hatred for Larry is so strong.

How about this, replace Larry's name with Don Chaney's name. Or how about Lenny Wilkens' name? Or maybe Herb Williams' name? It works with any of them.

I get ur trying to diss Isiah's poor construction of this roster...It's just over a month into the season and ur whining and moaning not even giving the team a chance to gel...

We're more than a quarter of the way through the season now. We're on pace for 28 wins.

You are really distorting the math there. You can always look at a teams record and then project out. But, look at Chicago, not that long ago they were playing really bad, no offense from the center position, but now they are kicking out wins. If you would have "projected" them out, you would have gotten... 28 wins. But now?

You need to look deeper. We are playing better, we are in most games. Our record may be comparable to last years, but not our play, especially from the center position. We have got Jefferies coming back soon. Things can change in a heartbeat. I will say that we need to turn things around soon. 1/4 of the way through the season is a good point to start at, as we will see the fruits of our labor.

To go into my happiness/unhappiness with the team, I'd say I'm sad with certain players. I like the fact that most are playing hard, but the defense is just killing us. Again, looking forward to when Jefferies gets back. Looking forward to Collins defending. Things may end up crappy for us, but I have a feeling we will do all right. I DON'T want to see Chicago get a high lottery pick from us, that will probably put me in your camp... I'm just not ready yet...

EMS

I don't think we're playing better than last year. So far, this year -- we are still wildly inconsistent. And while our C is putting up better numbers, other players are playing much worse. So it's a wash. Our young guys have improved. Our vets have deteriorated. At least we put up a six-game win streak last year. And I'm not distorting any math. I just multiplied our wins by four. I said we were on pace for 28 wins. I didn't say we were definitely going to win 28 games. Who knows maybe we'll win 32 or 33 -- then we can all be happy!!

Yeah, some players are playing worse. Crawford comes to mind. Damn, I wish he was going back to the mid range jumpshots. Remember that? He has a great one and he can take it at will. He isn't consistent from the outside, so he might as well go back to it. I'm dying to see Collins get some minutes. The conspiracy guy in me says he isn't cause he will so severely outplay the other two "point guards" that it will put Isiah in a bad place

Regarding distorting the math, I see your point, but do you see what I'm saying? The season changes, just like a game does. You can have a really bad first quarter but that second quarter can change things and carry on into the next few quarters. Think of the first quarter as two key players got into foul trouble (Frye and Jefferies) so we played small. This might help us in the later quarters cause guys like Balkman got some playing time, did well and can contribute if needed later in the game/season.

I'm not happy to see the inconsistent play, it really sucks to not get a feeling of better or worse. We had three 20 point wins so far! and then a loss! Once we turn it around it can be like dominos falling. The thing is we are sort of hovering in the middle, we need to fall in the right direction.

EMS

from the Hollinger article:

The Knicks have played a quarter of a season, and find themselves at 7–14. At this rate they will end up winning 27 games, a mere four-game improvement on the Larry Brown-led fiasco of a year earlier.

And despite Thomas's relentless, near-comic optimism, there's nothing in particular to suggest the Knicks are any better than their record shows. For instance, they have not played a particularly difficult schedule. The Knicks' slate has been the 11th-toughest in the league to date according to USA Today's Jeff Sagarin, which is more challenging than most Eastern teams have faced but hardly an excuse for a 7–14 start.

They have not suffered from an abundance of travel. Ten of their 21 games have been at home, their longest road trip was three games, and they've yet to hit the West Coast. Besides, they've played so poorly at the Garden that they'd probably prefer road games anyway.

They have not been victimized by bad luck in close games. If anything, it's the opposite. The Knicks are 3–2 in games decided by five points or less, and were it not for Jamal Crawford's heave in Denver and the triple-OT escape in Memphis we'd looking at an even bigger disaster.

They have not suffered from an unusual rash of injuries. Yes, they haven't had free-agent pick-up Jared Jeffries yet but take a look around the league. Pretty much everybody is missing a rotation player at this point. Besides, if you can't win without Jared Jeffries, the problem isn't the injury to Jeffries. The problem is that you stink.

quote]

there really is no need to go through all the bad moves Isiah's made in every other thread... i'm well aware of the sorry situation this team is in... i simply don't choose to harp on the topic everytime a discussion comes up on this year's squad because i find it's really a waste of time to keep beating the dead horse... i am taking this season as this season only... i came in w/very low expectations, & only wanted to see some development out of the young players... so far i've seen that, so i'm satisfied for now... of course i'd like to see them playing better & winning games, that's a given... everyone of us has the same longrange vision... we ALL want this team to win a championship... the fact that i have low expectations for this current squad doesn't discount that whatsoever... i just know the reality of the situation & don't see the point in constantly complaining about it.
[/quote]


Watchout TMS you might be considerd a homer. Because they don't consider that type of talk realism. Thats considerd homerism.

Posted by Bippity10:

I think last year Craw was being told to shoot more short range jumpers. His game was being reigned in. Now in order to give him his joy back we are letting him shoot whatever shot comes to mind. Now he's regressing.

This is a guy whose game and attitude is dying for disclipline. Dying for someone to show him the correct way to play. Sadly some coaches have failed him.

Yet he's actually playing either better than or the same as last year in every category.

I'm not so sure that the cablevision will be effected in manner because the Knicks are rebuilding. Can a drop in the price of the stock directly be linked to the Knicks being in the lottery the last 2 years?