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isiah: expiring contracts not as asset
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nixluva
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10/31/2006  12:12 PM
Posted by islesfan:

The bottom line is that Isiah has done a ridiculously poor job as the GM and President of the Knicks.

As far as the team itself:

- he's spent hundreds of millions of dollars
- he's traded away 4 possibly very high draft picks
- he's onto his 5th head coach in his 2 1/2 years here
- he has put together a mismatched roster that doesn't compliment each other well and the best we can hope for after close to 4 full seasons here is a mediocre team

As far as the organization he's made us into the laughingstock of the league by:
- being involved in a sexual harrassment case
- going through coach after coach making it impossible to get a good proven coach here as long as Isiah is here
- getting involved in immature spats with sportswriters because his ego can't stand criticism
- seemingly changing plans and directions more often than he changes head coaches

It's not hate (ok, maybe a little bit), it's about wanting what's best for a franchise that a lot of us have put a lot of time and passion into for a lot of years. It's become obvious for most of us (thank God) that Isiah's tenure has done more harm than good to this franchise and think that it's time for change.

My question is what method of retooling/rebuilding a team has proven to be more effective in the same amount of time? To my knowledge NONE. Unless part of your retooling includes adding Shaq, it's VERY difficult to build a team from a loser into a playoff contender.

Forget the money, cuz it's Cablevisions to spend.
Forget the embarrasing media scandals, cuz if the team wins none of that history means anything.
Forget the number of coaches, cuz if we exclude Chaney who already showed he wasn't very good and Herb who was an interim coach, then that leaves Lenny an obvious short term solution and LB, who quit on the team cuz he lacks the will to stick it out when it's tough.

Now the roster may not be textbook, but neither are LOT of winning teams in this league. If the team wins this year that's all that is important. How many prototypical NBA teams are there in the league anyway? You bring in talent and fit the pieces around that to make it work.

My point is that he hasn't won a lot of games, but then if you're trying to change the roster as drastically as he has then you're gonna have some rough times. This is a good roster! Isiah rebuilt this team in 3 years and I think it's ready to start winning now. That's not bad. How long has it been in Boston, Atlanta, Toronto etc. There are plenty of teams that have been trying to get back for as long and even longer than Isiah has been on the job. He may not be a very good GM, but I think he's going to prove to have been more effective than it might seem from all of his mistakes.

[Edited by - nixluva on 10-31-2006 05:13 AM]
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Bippity10
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10/31/2006  12:22 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by islesfan:

The bottom line is that Isiah has done a ridiculously poor job as the GM and President of the Knicks.

As far as the team itself:

- he's spent hundreds of millions of dollars
- he's traded away 4 possibly very high draft picks
- he's onto his 5th head coach in his 2 1/2 years here
- he has put together a mismatched roster that doesn't compliment each other well and the best we can hope for after close to 4 full seasons here is a mediocre team

As far as the organization he's made us into the laughingstock of the league by:
- being involved in a sexual harrassment case
- going through coach after coach making it impossible to get a good proven coach here as long as Isiah is here
- getting involved in immature spats with sportswriters because his ego can't stand criticism
- seemingly changing plans and directions more often than he changes head coaches

It's not hate (ok, maybe a little bit), it's about wanting what's best for a franchise that a lot of us have put a lot of time and passion into for a lot of years. It's become obvious for most of us (thank God) that Isiah's tenure has done more harm than good to this franchise and think that it's time for change.

My question is what method of retooling/rebuilding a team has proven to be more effective in the same amount of time? To my knowledge NONE. Unless part of your retooling includes adding Shaq, it's VERY difficult to build a team from a loser into a playoff contender.

Forget the money, cuz it's Cablevisions to spend.
Forget the embarrasing media scandals, cuz if the team wins none of that history means anything.
Forget the number of coaches, cuz if we exclude Chaney who already showed he wasn't very good and Herb who was an interim coach, then that leaves Lenny an obvious short term solution and LB, who quit on the team cuz he lacks the will to stick it out when it's tough.

Now the roster may not be textbook, but neither are LOT of winning teams in this league. If the team wins this year that's all that is important. How many prototypical NBA teams are there in the league anyway? You bring in talent and fit the pieces around that to make it work.

My point is that he hasn't won a lot of games, but then if you're trying to change the roster as drastically as he has then you're gonna have some rough times. This is a good roster! Isiah rebuilt this team in 3 years and I think it's ready to start winning now. That's not bad. How long has it been in Boston, Atlanta, Toronto etc. There are plenty of teams that have been trying to get back for as long and even longer than Isiah has been on the job. He may not be a very good GM, but I think he's going to prove to have been more effective than it might seem from all of his mistakes.

[Edited by - nixluva on 10-31-2006 05:13 AM]

You keep saying forget the money as if that doesn't affect us. Part of the reason we can't obtain the superstars we covet is because we overpay the okay players that we have. NO?
I just hope that people will like me
Masterplan
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10/31/2006  12:25 PM
nixluva, IT wasn't given a team that was a "loser." it was a mediocre team, a borderline playoff team. now, we do have a team of losers, second worst record in the league, and we're hoping to be a mediocre, borderline playoff team. we didn't even get the high draft pick you usually get when your team is as bad as ours.

i don't miss the layden days. that team won some games, but it had a very questionable future, built around houston and dice's knees, frank williams and mike sweetney's diets and waiting for young euros who have done nothing. i love the young guys we've collected. but our moves for veterans have been hideous. when we basically trade ariza for francis and then need a defensive SF, or butler for jerome and then need a backup C, or call players' contracts "assets" and then buy them out, i think it gives the fans a definite right to question our management.

you believe this year is the one we put it all together. if it isn't, would you still support IT or would you agree it's time for a change?
Masterplan
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10/31/2006  12:28 PM
Posted by Bippity10:


You keep saying forget the money as if that doesn't affect us. Part of the reason we can't obtain the superstars we covet is because we overpay the okay players that we have. NO?

i can't stand people who say "it's not your money." now we're buying out "assets" and letting young guys walk to other teams- not necessarily moves i disagree with, but when it looks like the motivation is Dolan tightening his purse strings- hmmmmm.... it had to happen, folks.
fishmike
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10/31/2006  12:46 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Isiah's time here hasn't been abysmal. If he had done what some wanted and basically tried to gut the team at the start, there are no guarantees we'd be any closer to a title. He had a so so, 1st half season, followed by a bad year in his 1st full season. Last year should've been the 1st yr of our new youth movement, but LB didn't do his job. now this year we can get this thing cranked up. It hasn't been a bad 3 yrs. If he hadn't retooled this team and brought in talented youth then i'd say it was a bad 3 years. The thing is some of you guys can't look at what he's done in a very short time and give him credit for remaking this team which was pure garbage when he got here.

Let me ask you realistically how soon was he supposed to be able to turn around this team which was headed NOWHERE when he got here? 1 year, 2 years, 3 years? So many of you guys and the media are SO OFF BASE ! They only look at the money spent and ignore that it almost always takes YEARS to fix a totally broken team.
And here we have the mother of all copouts.

So by saying its possible that one plan can fail justifies all the current failures. Read what Islesfan wrote and tell which part of it is not true.

My #1 knock on Isiah isnt just the bad trades, its the total lack of a plan. Isiah has no plan. Or shall we say Isiah has 3 plans.
His 3 plans are...
stock young talent and rebuild through the draft.
Add veteran players to win now.
Stockpile expiring contacts to trade for a mega star later.

Problem is none of those works together, and everyone knows it. You have to pick your course and stay with it. The expiring contracts plan already blew up in his face and has been scrapped. The win now with veteran players (and a veteran coach) produced 59 losses last year. We brought in Eddie Curry, Antonio Davis, Jerome James, QRich and had Marbury, Crawford, Mo T and Malik Rose all returning. Thats a veteran team.
Meanwhile the rebuild though the draft plan took a bit of a hit when Chicago picked Ty Thomas, and is sitting pretty next year barring a magical Knick season orchestrated by our savior Isiah himself. Not to mention we still owe Utah a #1 at some point

Bad GM

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
wsdm
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10/31/2006  2:41 PM
Posted by Rich:

Jalen's and Stevie's contracts can be viewed as a "Larry tax."

"Larry Tax"; good one!
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martin
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10/31/2006  3:39 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by Rich:

Jalen's and Stevie's contracts can be viewed as a "Larry tax."

"Larry Tax"; good one!

more like an Isiah stupid tax
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McK1
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10/31/2006  4:54 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Isiah buying Jalen out was a shock initially, but now I'm womndering what plans he has for that roster spot.

the newly available James White if he has any executive gray matter left.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
isiah: expiring contracts not as asset

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