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Knicks-Brown Dispute Resolved
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eViL
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10/31/2006  9:49 PM
If there was a clause in LB's contract that specified that he would forfeit his entire salary if he spoke to players through the media, do you think LB would have said a word? Of course not. The whole speaking to players through the media is so blown out of proportion it's not even funny. What did Isiah just say about Curry in the press? Last season, didn't Zeke tell the media that Marbury needs to "be a man"? It's an ancillary issue and certainly not an issue that would cause LB to lose most of his salary.

The Knicks were an informed party in their contract negotiations with Brown. They knew what they were getting themselves into and they offered LB a long-term deal anyway. It's unlikely that he got less than than the $40M remaining on his deal.
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CrushAlot
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10/31/2006  11:04 PM
The Knicks management and ownership team is a joke. I know when Brown was signed to coach I thought that finally they were making a move in the right direction. I am not sure if Brown tried to sabbotage the season so that he could get Isiah's job but you could make a strong argument that it appeared that way. Isiah's biggest mistake was involving Brown in personnel decisions. Brown is notorious for having his flavor of the month player and guys that need to be traded immediately. His success depends on a strong GM who doesn't waiver from his own vision of the team. Larry always wants to trade almost every player on his roster at some point during the season. Just like coaches have to adapt to their players GMs have to adapt to their coaches and recognize their faults. Brown did a horrible job last year but while he can make suggestions he is not responsible for roster moves. Isiah as GM of the Knicks is a disaster. Anucha is on deck.
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franco12
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11/1/2006  12:09 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by islesfan:

I think LB got the present day value of the $40M that the Knicks still owed him.

So the Knicks would have to write a check for less than $40M and they can say it was a compromise and save face.

Of course you do.


And what do you think the outcome was? What I suggested was more than plausible since David Stern is never going to set a precedent of having a team not pay a contract of someone that they fired.

That's just logical. Now go ahead and tell us your "I hate LB and he deserved nothing" slanted view of what happened.


I agree- that is how I read this- that Brown got half or less. Otherwise, why talk about precedent?

Stern is no dummy - he's watched enough basketball to know that LB did a horrible job last season and that while Dolan has mismanaged, he's also paid enough of a financial penalty in terms of players and taxes.
crzymdups
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11/1/2006  1:49 AM
Posted by martin:


agreed. I am thinking that Dolan's biggest mistake was letting Riley go. He was the one that could have put in an atmosphere of winning and a culture that would instill it.

wait, I wasn't actually watching the business side of things back then, just the games. wasn't dolan not officially here then? wasn't it ITC who owned the team? I thought Dolan bought in like 97.
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Bippity10
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11/1/2006  9:07 AM
Posted by CrushAlot:

The Knicks management and ownership team is a joke. I know when Brown was signed to coach I thought that finally they were making a move in the right direction. I am not sure if Brown tried to sabbotage the season so that he could get Isiah's job but you could make a strong argument that it appeared that way. Isiah's biggest mistake was involving Brown in personnel decisions. Brown is notorious for having his flavor of the month player and guys that need to be traded immediately. His success depends on a strong GM who doesn't waiver from his own vision of the team. Larry always wants to trade almost every player on his roster at some point during the season. Just like coaches have to adapt to their players GMs have to adapt to their coaches and recognize their faults. Brown did a horrible job last year but while he can make suggestions he is not responsible for roster moves. Isiah as GM of the Knicks is a disaster. Anucha is on deck.

Good post
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Bippity10
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11/1/2006  9:08 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by martin:

You are one of the only posters who bring up LB lovers. If this was Chaney or Wilkens I would be saying the same thing.

I didn't say I had a source about the contract, this is my own opinion.

OK, so what did LB do that Wilkens didn't do? What clause did he breach?

There are, of course, breaches like you can't break the law of the USA, you can't just not show up for work. Those I understand and would constitute breaches that would end in termination without pay.

Was LB not supposed to talk to other GMs? Was that in his contract? If so, LB was wrong and should get no money. But that was not in there, I am pretty sure.

So what did LB do that was wrong and in breach of contract? Dude had a crap season as coach. So what. So do about 5 coaches a year... are all of those in breach of contract? Is Isiah in breach?
I bring up LB lovers because its relevant. All of those formerly belonging to the LB camp have surmised that he got all of the money. Is that just a coincidence? I don't think so and thats why I broguht it up.

1. He actually didn't show up for work, or left early at the pre-draft camp.
2. It seems totally plausible that there is a clause which includes something about obstructing transactions, or attempting to conduct transactions that are outside of your jurisdiction. How you are so sure there isn't one is rather interesting I'd say.
3. Him having a crappy season is utterly and completely irrelevant in terms of this contractual dispute.
4. It appears as though the whole 'speaking to players through the media thing' and other media matters, were explicitly in the contract.

You guys crack me up arguing for hours about stuff when nobody knows the end result.
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Killa4luv
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11/1/2006  11:17 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by martin:

You are one of the only posters who bring up LB lovers. If this was Chaney or Wilkens I would be saying the same thing.

I didn't say I had a source about the contract, this is my own opinion.

OK, so what did LB do that Wilkens didn't do? What clause did he breach?

There are, of course, breaches like you can't break the law of the USA, you can't just not show up for work. Those I understand and would constitute breaches that would end in termination without pay.

Was LB not supposed to talk to other GMs? Was that in his contract? If so, LB was wrong and should get no money. But that was not in there, I am pretty sure.

So what did LB do that was wrong and in breach of contract? Dude had a crap season as coach. So what. So do about 5 coaches a year... are all of those in breach of contract? Is Isiah in breach?
I bring up LB lovers because its relevant. All of those formerly belonging to the LB camp have surmised that he got all of the money. Is that just a coincidence? I don't think so and thats why I broguht it up.

1. He actually didn't show up for work, or left early at the pre-draft camp.
2. It seems totally plausible that there is a clause which includes something about obstructing transactions, or attempting to conduct transactions that are outside of your jurisdiction. How you are so sure there isn't one is rather interesting I'd say.
3. Him having a crappy season is utterly and completely irrelevant in terms of this contractual dispute.
4. It appears as though the whole 'speaking to players through the media thing' and other media matters, were explicitly in the contract.

You guys crack me up arguing for hours about stuff when nobody knows the end result.
Yeah, its kinda like a pretty big part about being on a Knicks message board. I guess you crack up alot.
Allanfan20
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11/1/2006  11:22 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by martin:

You are one of the only posters who bring up LB lovers. If this was Chaney or Wilkens I would be saying the same thing.

I didn't say I had a source about the contract, this is my own opinion.

OK, so what did LB do that Wilkens didn't do? What clause did he breach?

There are, of course, breaches like you can't break the law of the USA, you can't just not show up for work. Those I understand and would constitute breaches that would end in termination without pay.

Was LB not supposed to talk to other GMs? Was that in his contract? If so, LB was wrong and should get no money. But that was not in there, I am pretty sure.

So what did LB do that was wrong and in breach of contract? Dude had a crap season as coach. So what. So do about 5 coaches a year... are all of those in breach of contract? Is Isiah in breach?
I bring up LB lovers because its relevant. All of those formerly belonging to the LB camp have surmised that he got all of the money. Is that just a coincidence? I don't think so and thats why I broguht it up.

1. He actually didn't show up for work, or left early at the pre-draft camp.
2. It seems totally plausible that there is a clause which includes something about obstructing transactions, or attempting to conduct transactions that are outside of your jurisdiction. How you are so sure there isn't one is rather interesting I'd say.
3. Him having a crappy season is utterly and completely irrelevant in terms of this contractual dispute.
4. It appears as though the whole 'speaking to players through the media thing' and other media matters, were explicitly in the contract.

You guys crack me up arguing for hours about stuff when nobody knows the end result.
Yeah, its kinda like a pretty big part about being on a Knicks message board. I guess you crack up alot.

No it isn't! LB is gone and nobody cares about him anymore, nor what kind of money he gets. We care about how our team plays tonight and from tonight and on. F' LB.

It's amazing how bitter towards him some of you are and he's gone.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bippity10
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11/1/2006  11:28 AM
We should spend the next 6 months talking about whether Don Chaney has enough money to retire or if he is collecting a welfare check. Who friggin cares.
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Killa4luv
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11/1/2006  11:28 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by martin:

You are one of the only posters who bring up LB lovers. If this was Chaney or Wilkens I would be saying the same thing.

I didn't say I had a source about the contract, this is my own opinion.

OK, so what did LB do that Wilkens didn't do? What clause did he breach?

There are, of course, breaches like you can't break the law of the USA, you can't just not show up for work. Those I understand and would constitute breaches that would end in termination without pay.

Was LB not supposed to talk to other GMs? Was that in his contract? If so, LB was wrong and should get no money. But that was not in there, I am pretty sure.

So what did LB do that was wrong and in breach of contract? Dude had a crap season as coach. So what. So do about 5 coaches a year... are all of those in breach of contract? Is Isiah in breach?
I bring up LB lovers because its relevant. All of those formerly belonging to the LB camp have surmised that he got all of the money. Is that just a coincidence? I don't think so and thats why I broguht it up.

1. He actually didn't show up for work, or left early at the pre-draft camp.
2. It seems totally plausible that there is a clause which includes something about obstructing transactions, or attempting to conduct transactions that are outside of your jurisdiction. How you are so sure there isn't one is rather interesting I'd say.
3. Him having a crappy season is utterly and completely irrelevant in terms of this contractual dispute.
4. It appears as though the whole 'speaking to players through the media thing' and other media matters, were explicitly in the contract.

You guys crack me up arguing for hours about stuff when nobody knows the end result.
Yeah, its kinda like a pretty big part about being on a Knicks message board. I guess you crack up alot.

No it isn't! LB is gone and nobody cares about him anymore, nor what kind of money he gets. We care about how our team plays tonight and from tonight and on. F' LB.

It's amazing how bitter towards him some of you are and he's gone.

I don't see anything in my post that indicates that I'm bitter. But why shouldn't I be, he ruined our season last year.
BRIGGS
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11/1/2006  12:12 PM
Posted by Elite:

who cares

I bet the wife hit up 5th avenue pretty hard on the news. Um Larry could you import that quaint English Medieval stone cottage from Colchester? We'll have them bring it over stone by stone.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 11-01-2006 12:17 PM]
RIP Crushalot😞
Killa4luv
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11/9/2006  10:48 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by martin:

I think LB would have gotten pretty close to full value on contract. Imagine a situation where he did not: ALL owners would then be in a position to fire their coaches and arbitrate (with Stern or otherwise). This would be BAAAADDDDD for the NBA. You can't set a precident like that with the owners OR coaches.

You all seem to be parroting this line, however, contracts are the length they are for a reason, otherwise you could sum it up in a sentence. There is always a breach clause, ESPECIALLY in a 60 million dollar contract. There is no coaches union, therefore I can reasonably assume there is a just cause to breach the contract, as there is a pretty powerful player's union and they have breach clauses in their contracts. My thinking is this:

1. Stern knows this is bad for the league on both counts, if LB gets everything it sends a message to the owners (who are the damn ruling class of the NBA) that they have no recourse for coaches who violate terms of their contract. If they have to pay nothing, it sends the message that the contracts are meaningless and hints of lawlessness. He can't do either, if honestly looks at the situation he can find enough fault on both sides to decide that neither should have their complete demands met.

2. He'll get some portion of his salary, around half, give or take a couple mil. No way Larry gets 53, its totally outside of the realm of possibility and no way they settle at 40, and no way he gets zero either. Any of these outcomes would mean, that this is not a 'settlement' and in fact one side won. Stern is pretty clearly saying that that wont be the outcome by ordering both sides to settle.

3. Stern also wants LB to coach again and wants this to go away, he'll make sure LB settles to something south of 40, arguing that he is going to sign a new contract soon, there is a case to be made against him, and that this is essentially free money he is asking for. He will not allow an owner in the league to be completely fleeced. He is accountable to owners, not coaches.

How all of you LB lovers happen to draw the conclusion he got 40 is pretty comical. Personally I think he ought to get nothing, but I think he will get about half.


ARK, your source says nothing about how much he got.
For the only coherent pre-settlement analysis see above.


[Edited by - killa4luv on 11-09-2006 10:49 AM]
eViL
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11/9/2006  12:03 PM
Killa predicts the settlement
thinks brown's case is embezzlement
ask his old teams
there's no tellin' where the fella went
Isiah is heaven sent and hell bent to mend egos
we know the team only goes as far as he goes
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Killa4luv
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11/9/2006  12:51 PM
Posted by eViL:

Killa predicts the settlement
thinks brown's case is embezzlement
ask his old teams
there's no tellin' where the fella went
Isiah is heaven sent and hell bent to mend egos
we know the team only goes as far as he goes

eViL spittin that FIRE!!!!!!!!!!
eViL
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11/9/2006  8:57 PM
Yeah Killa, you know we gonna (eventually) bless the UK masses with a little exclusive joint that'll have heads nodding... We gotta top that ballad of Isiah and show 'em that not only does UK have the best posters and the most knowledge -- we also got the most talent.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Killa4luv
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11/9/2006  9:39 PM
Posted by eViL:

Yeah Killa, you know we gonna (eventually) bless the UK masses with a little exclusive joint that'll have heads nodding... We gotta top that ballad of Isiah and show 'em that not only does UK have the best posters and the most knowledge -- we also got the most talent.

COuldn't have said it better myself.
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