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Nalod
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If you could dump Marbury and go forward with our mix of youth, would you do it? Keep Francis and start him with Craw. Q is the first shooting guard off the bench, and nate is the sparkplug. Does the team seem more balanceed without him. Say trade him for expiring "eddie jones" type player. Then let that contract and Jailen expire.
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islesfan
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10/11/2006  7:20 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Do the Knicks have anyone that can run a team as a point guard?

Maybe you were watching NJ Nets last year not being able to see the difference in how the team was ran without Marbs...

[Edited by - holfresh on 10-11-2006 3:58 PM]

Why are you taking shots? I asked a valid question, yet you bring up the Nets?

I'll say it again and this team I'll steal Martins thunder. This team does NOT have a player that can run the pointguard spot. With or without Marbury.

Not sure what that has to do with the Nets, but I guess it makes sense to you.


We are not going to have a back and forth about a guy who have been an all-star in this league running the point guard position...Don't let your hate cloud your basketball sense...Argue about a guy who probally is amoung the active assist leaders in the league and will be amoung the assist leaders in the NBA history when its all said and done...That guy can't run a team...


Statbury had one good run in the playoffs. What else he done?

4 playoffs, 1 olympics, 2 time all-star PG. He certainly can run an offense when his head is screwed on right. There shouldn't even be any question about that. The only issue is his attitude, not his passing and playmaking.

He can run an offense. An offense that is geared to him having the ball 90% of the time, can look to score as much as he wants and doesn't have to involve his teammates until he has to.

His passing is a problem, especially if they want to run as much as they say they will. He's a terrible passer on the break. He doesn't know how to get the ball to his teammates in the best position possible unless it's a drive and dish.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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nyk4ever
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10/11/2006  7:33 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:



How did Paul do against the rest of the league...


He actually had a better record against the rest of the league than Marbury did, if your asking. You honestly think Marbury is a better PG than Chris Paul?


Paul will be the best point guard in this league in 2 yrs...This is not able Paul and Marbury...It's about Marbs running a team...He can and has period...


Your qualifications of running a team are 20&8, the qualifications for the rest of the NBA include: production, leadership and stability. Marbury gets a 33%
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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10/11/2006  7:35 PM

Nonsense...you can't rack up 8 assist per game for 10 years having the ball 90 percent of the time...Ask Curry why he complained last year
about not getting the ball where he wanted it when Marbs went down...Ask Keith Van Horn what was the reson he had his best stretch as a player in Knick uniform...Ask Kurt Thomas who was the point guard his most productive year in the NBA...Ask Michael Doleac who was
the point guard when he looked for the first time like he belonged in the NBA...
holfresh
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10/11/2006  7:37 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:



How did Paul do against the rest of the league...


He actually had a better record against the rest of the league than Marbury did, if your asking. You honestly think Marbury is a better PG than Chris Paul?


Paul will be the best point guard in this league in 2 yrs...This is not able Paul and Marbury...It's about Marbs running a team...He can and has period...


Your qualifications of running a team are 20&8, the qualifications for the rest of the NBA include: production, leadership and stability. Marbury gets a 33%


I guess thats why someone offered him 20 mil per year to run their team...
eViL
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10/11/2006  7:47 PM
Marbs is a talent. Everyone knows that. But he has failed to put it all together at every stop in his career. I gave him all the chances in the world when he became a Knick, but I have finally passed judgment on him. I consider him a me-first player who is destined to go down as the ultimate stat-grubbing loser in league history. I hope I'm wrong -- trust me, I really do. If he puts it all together this year the Knicks will win a lot of games. I am certain of that. However, he shows no signs of 'getting it' and we're likely to be in the lottery again. It makes me sad to say that, but that's how I feel.
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holfresh
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10/11/2006  8:11 PM

And I can respect the way you feel...But he can run this team....Funny thing about sports is that people always uses a person positives as a negative...A guy gives you 20 and 8 for 10 years means he is selfish amd me first and want to shoot all the time...Yet look at his stats and you will see Nash took more shots per game than him last year...Lawerence Taylor's problem is that he can only pass rush...Thats all he did...Dan Marino's problem was he can't win championships...Amazing...
wsdm
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10/11/2006  8:32 PM
Posted by eViL:

Marbs is a talent. Everyone knows that. But he has failed to put it all together at every stop in his career. I gave him all the chances in the world when he became a Knick, but I have finally passed judgment on him. I consider him a me-first player who is destined to go down as the ultimate stat-grubbing loser in league history. I hope I'm wrong -- trust me, I really do. If he puts it all together this year the Knicks will win a lot of games. I am certain of that. However, he shows no signs of 'getting it' and we're likely to be in the lottery again. It makes me sad to say that, but that's how I feel.

Yeah, I understand how you feel, but I think people view Marbury in far too black and white terms. He HAS had some very good stretches, even extended stretches, as a point gaurd in his career. You don't get chosen to be the PG for your country in the olympics if you've always been an awful PG. You don't get chosen several player of the month awards, all-star nominations, all nba 3rd or 2nd (I forget) awards, the list goes on...if you've always been an awful point gaurd. He's been a great PG at times--just never for a full season other than possibly the one in Phoenix before he got the huge contract extension. We're all down on Marbury because of a "recency effect" (i.e., how awful last season was). I think a lot of people make it sound like he's been an awful PG 100% of his career.
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nyk4ever
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10/11/2006  8:40 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:



How did Paul do against the rest of the league...


He actually had a better record against the rest of the league than Marbury did, if your asking. You honestly think Marbury is a better PG than Chris Paul?


Paul will be the best point guard in this league in 2 yrs...This is not able Paul and Marbury...It's about Marbs running a team...He can and has period...


Your qualifications of running a team are 20&8, the qualifications for the rest of the NBA include: production, leadership and stability. Marbury gets a 33%


I guess thats why someone offered him 20 mil per year to run their team...


And then traded him that same year, aka let him be someone elses problem.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
islesfan
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10/11/2006  9:14 PM
Posted by holfresh:


And I can respect the way you feel...But he can run this team....Funny thing about sports is that people always uses a person positives as a negative...A guy gives you 20 and 8 for 10 years means he is selfish amd me first and want to shoot all the time...Yet look at his stats and you will see Nash took more shots per game than him last year...Lawerence Taylor's problem is that he can only pass rush...Thats all he did...Dan Marino's problem was he can't win championships...Amazing...

Stats don't always tell the whole story. Nobody is disputing that Starbury is a talent. But his idea of running an offense is give me the ball and let me try to score and if I can't I'll look to pass. Instead of first looking to involve his teammates and getting them the ball where the chances of them succeeding are greatest before he looks to score.

Nash took more shots than Marbury but Marbury took 17.6% of his teams shots as opposed to Nash's 15.3%. You can attribute Nash's total number of shots to his teams run and gun style of play where they led the NBA in shot attempts. It's not a measure of his style of play as a PG. He's always looking to pass first and usually only takes what the defense gives him in terms of his own scoring.

LT was one of the best, if not the best, linebacker ever. Marbury is not the best at anything.

Marino was one of the most prolific QB's of all time and got to a Super Bowl. He couldn't do anything on the defensive side which is usually what wins championships in the NFL.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Allanfan20
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10/11/2006  9:28 PM
Posted by wsdm:
Posted by eViL:

Marbs is a talent. Everyone knows that. But he has failed to put it all together at every stop in his career. I gave him all the chances in the world when he became a Knick, but I have finally passed judgment on him. I consider him a me-first player who is destined to go down as the ultimate stat-grubbing loser in league history. I hope I'm wrong -- trust me, I really do. If he puts it all together this year the Knicks will win a lot of games. I am certain of that. However, he shows no signs of 'getting it' and we're likely to be in the lottery again. It makes me sad to say that, but that's how I feel.

Yeah, I understand how you feel, but I think people view Marbury in far too black and white terms. He HAS had some very good stretches, even extended stretches, as a point gaurd in his career. You don't get chosen to be the PG for your country in the olympics if you've always been an awful PG. You don't get chosen several player of the month awards, all-star nominations, all nba 3rd or 2nd (I forget) awards, the list goes on...if you've always been an awful point gaurd. He's been a great PG at times--just never for a full season other than possibly the one in Phoenix before he got the huge contract extension. We're all down on Marbury because of a "recency effect" (i.e., how awful last season was). I think a lot of people make it sound like he's been an awful PG 100% of his career.

There's no doubt he has the ability to be a great PG. He can run an offense decently at times, depending on what the defense presents. However, when you say he's had stretches, that's actually alarming. A great PG is always a great PG. Marbury is nowhere near being a GREAT PG. He's a great scorer who can kick the ball out while driving, and he can run a pick and roll. But he's not good at directing an offense, b/c his main thing is SCORING.

And another thing you mentioned that's alarming is "When his head is n straight." He's almost 30. We shouldn't be worried about him having his head on straight. He should be committed to doing whatever is best for the organization, and when he's still talking about Starbury, you wonder if they're is something not right up there.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
holfresh
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10/11/2006  9:33 PM

When his head is on straight is not really alarming...Let's put it another way...When his coach is not picking on him..How is that?
BlueSeats
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10/11/2006  9:56 PM
Marbury is already at the point in his career that you have to worry that his mental capacity wont increase as much as his physical capacity decreases.

That's if you want him to be a really good/great player going forward. But if you just want him back to a 33 win player, but a step slower, that shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation for this season.
Allanfan20
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10/11/2006  10:28 PM
you
Posted by holfresh:


When his head is on straight is not really alarming...Let's put it another way...When his coach is not picking on him..How is that?


Yeah, Larry Brown, Herb Williams, Lenny Wilkins, Don Chaney, Mike D'antoni, John Calipari, Flip Saunders, Danny Ainge??? Who else am I missing. All have just been soo terrible to poor Stephon and he's given the same crap to everyone.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
holfresh
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10/11/2006  10:57 PM

Herb never complained about Marbs..Chaney said he wished he had more time with Marbs..D'antoni hasn't said anything bad about Marbs...Flip loves Marbs, I nver heard Ainge said anything about Marbs if he ever coached him...Herb as well...
martin
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10/11/2006  11:54 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Herb never complained about Marbs..Chaney said he wished he had more time with Marbs..D'antoni hasn't said anything bad about Marbs...Flip loves Marbs, I nver heard Ainge said anything about Marbs if he ever coached him...Herb as well...

you have to differentiate between a coach with a contract and a coach who is on a year to year lease (Herb, Chaney). D'antoni has complained plenty about Marb (something like "he never bought into our system"). Some coaches are young and some are in the last year of their contract. Sometimes a player has TONS of power (LeBron, even if he is WAAAAY our of line, will never hear a bad word from a coach). Like that.
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joec32033
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10/11/2006  11:55 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Herb never complained about Marbs..Chaney said he wished he had more time with Marbs..D'antoni hasn't said anything bad about Marbs...Flip loves Marbs, I nver heard Ainge said anything about Marbs if he ever coached him...Herb as well...

So they all kissed his ass, and didn't get on him and he still couldn't win. Did you just contradict your own point?
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nyk4ever
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10/12/2006  12:06 AM
Posted by joec32033:

So they all kissed his ass, and didn't get on him and he still couldn't win. Did you just contradict your own point?

Posted by martin:

you have to differentiate between a coach with a contract and a coach who is on a year to year lease (Herb, Chaney). D'antoni has complained plenty about Marb (something like "he never bought into our system"). Some coaches are young and some are in the last year of their contract. Sometimes a player has TONS of power (LeBron, even if he is WAAAAY our of line, will never hear a bad word from a coach). Like that.

Both excellent and very true points.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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10/12/2006  12:15 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:


Herb never complained about Marbs..Chaney said he wished he had more time with Marbs..D'antoni hasn't said anything bad about Marbs...Flip loves Marbs, I nver heard Ainge said anything about Marbs if he ever coached him...Herb as well...

you have to differentiate between a coach with a contract and a coach who is on a year to year lease (Herb, Chaney). D'antoni has complained plenty about Marb (something like "he never bought into our system"). Some coaches are young and some are in the last year of their contract. Sometimes a player has TONS of power (LeBron, even if he is WAAAAY our of line, will never hear a bad word from a coach). Like that.


Why are you so ready to assume that everyone has something bad to say even if they didn't say it...Why is it so easily to assume that Cheney and Herb had bad stuff to say but not having a contract prevented them from saying it..What if they had no opinion of the guy and said nothing..Not possible?
Allanfan20
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10/12/2006  12:22 AM
Holfresh, lets just get real, Marbury is a Cannibal and a Communist. It's not looking good for him. Might as well become a Brevin Knight fan.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
martin
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10/12/2006  12:33 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:


Herb never complained about Marbs..Chaney said he wished he had more time with Marbs..D'antoni hasn't said anything bad about Marbs...Flip loves Marbs, I nver heard Ainge said anything about Marbs if he ever coached him...Herb as well...

you have to differentiate between a coach with a contract and a coach who is on a year to year lease (Herb, Chaney). D'antoni has complained plenty about Marb (something like "he never bought into our system"). Some coaches are young and some are in the last year of their contract. Sometimes a player has TONS of power (LeBron, even if he is WAAAAY our of line, will never hear a bad word from a coach). Like that.


Why are you so ready to assume that everyone has something bad to say even if they didn't say it...Why is it so easily to assume that Cheney and Herb had bad stuff to say but not having a contract prevented them from saying it..What if they had no opinion of the guy and said nothing..Not possible?

I have heard of personal accounts that Marbury is a lockerroom cancer.
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