Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by nixluva:

How can you say that Lee didn't show any development. He looked awful shooting from the floor at first, but he kept working on it and was actually pretty good at the end of the year. Its not like he didn't put in any effort. So far this year it looks like he's improved from the FT line and his shot looks altogether much smoother.

I'm less convinced than you. Did you watch summer league last year? I did and both Frye and lee were already winning over fans way back then, before the season started. I'm not sure they made such great gains since.

As for lee's shot, I felt the same way with Ariza over his first season. I felt like he gained confidence in his shot from beginning to end, but less convinced it stuck by the start of his second season. Stats bear this out:

04-05 in NY Trevor shot .442.
05-06 in NY Trevor shot .418
05-06 in Orlando Trevor shot .400

Similarly, here are Lee's percentages month by month:
.483
.429
.683
.619
.585
.612

Other than a slow start, probably attributable to rookie jitters, is that really the arc of a sustained progression? We really don't know yet, do we?

Posted by nixluva:
Frye showed me a lot. He wasn't even supposed to be much of anything according to many pundits, but he was the 2nd best rookie for much of the year despite all the turmoil on the team. I really hate to include these guys in any argument about showing something, since the really just got started. Hopefully this year they'll show more growth.

Frye earned the potential ROY accolades in the first third of the season. He was surprising people then; less so later in the season.

Again, lets look at his FG% month by month:
.503
.526
.462
.426
.424

Is that a sustained arc of progress?

You seem to be talking about isiah's draft ability, while I am talking about an arc of improvement across the season, or from one season to the next.

We MAY see an improvement from last season to this. One absolutely SHOULD expect almost automatic improvement over a player's first three to five years in the league. Such is the normal developmental curve as a player's body matures, and he learns the NBA game. It's the ramp up to his peak productivity years.

When you don't see that ramp up is when you become concerned (TT, Eddy Curry, Steve Francis, Jerome James, even Marbury).

So a sustained upward climb in productivity and/or leadership is one of the things I'll be looking for. But I'd hardly declare it a fait accompli at this point.

Been good my daughter's running my ass into the ground, but been doing well. Got a second daughter due in Dec so no I am waiting on that one. Can't wait to get all this estrogen in one house....woohoo. How about yourself?

I agree whith what Briggs said in another thread another thread. We have 50 win talent. Right now my ideal season is 45 wins and a trip to the semis. My expectation is somewhere aroune 35-38 wins.

As for player expectations, as a group if they give me their hearts and leave them on the floor, they can have mine. Individually there are only certain guys I really have meaningful expectations for-

Marbury-Shut up and lead. Be the leader you have the talent to be. You're the PG, the floor general, you have the reigns-don't waste it.

Frye-Learn to rebound and defend. Don't fall into the injury waiting to happen category(I was nervous in SL), you shouldn't have said anything about LB-you came across as a spoiled brat-earn my respect back.

Nate-Shut-up and play. You also ain't earned nothing yet. Just because you have the talet to start(I think he has the talent to be better than JCraw is now-Maybe become our Ben Gordon) does not mean you should be.

Francis-Please at least play up to what you used to be on a bad day.

Curry-Prove us wrong-that you are not a heart attack waiting to happen. Show some desire.

I speak my expectations in generalities, because generally, specifics suck, specifically trying to predict specifics of guys who played so bad last year.

Acceptable to me is 40+ wins and just showing some heart and not acting like spoiled babies. They made me set my bar pretty low, huh?

Posted by EnySpree:

I think nixluva had the best take on the knick actual offense. None of are actually talking how the real offense works and how it will fit the players. Most of you guys like to fry the individual players saying what they need to do individually. They all have to step up but their has to be a plan of attack for the guys to really step into a role and do what they are capable of.

Just the summer league alone was an eye opener to what the verbal hype is about. All the no name guys and the knicks 5 draft picks made it look fun and easy.

In summer league the strategy was play team defense and on the turnover or rebound start the fast break everytime. Guys were taking off down court even off the inbounds pass. That's not individual. That's what isiah is telling these guys to do. Its their strategy. When the break wasn't their they went right into their offense. Guys imediately got into their cuts, picks and theire was constant movement. Guys were getting lay-ups and jumpshots. Passing was a given cuz guys were popping open all the time.

Yeah that was summer league but a lot of guys arguments is about last year. The offense is for real and I think the vets will love it. It truly is geared for the guards and the natural ability of the players. It will be a very interesting training camp. I can't wait till pre-season so we can see this all play out.