[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Team USA loses to Greece. No more gold!
Author Thread
nyballer
Posts: 21019
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/4/2001
Member: #108
USA
9/3/2006  6:43 PM
how long is he out for? the grizz must be pissed
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
AUTOADVERT
martin
Posts: 80251
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
9/3/2006  6:44 PM
Posted by nyballer:

how long is he out for? the grizz must be pissed

I think I read 3 months.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
wsdm
Posts: 20803
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/16/2006
Member: #1167

9/3/2006  8:25 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by wsdm:

Wow, Pau broke his ankle! I thought the play was bizarre because he didn't land on an uneven surface (e.g., someone's foot). It just came out of nowhere.

He broke his foot not his ankle.

Equally bizarre considering there was no contact. It just broke for no reason.


[Edited by - wsdm on 09-03-2006 8:25 PM]
www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
9/3/2006  9:22 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543

This is terrible. We were playing good basketball but we still lost to Greece. I was one of those that blamed Larry Brown for not winning the Olympic gold a few years ago. I cant pin that on him anymore. We aren't as good as I thought we were. We are no longer the dominant force we used to be in the 90's. Its a shame.
A lot of people around here used Larry's bronze to descredit him. How stupid he was for not playing and 18 year old Lebron and a 19 year old Carmello more, etc etc etc

USA basketball doesnt translate into the international game, and yes... there are international players that are as good as ours.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rojasmas
Posts: 21207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/25/2004
Member: #639
9/3/2006  10:07 PM
So Spain destroys Greece without Gasol, their best player. And our collection of NBA'ers can't get it done one more time. And we get smoked in the international baseball competition also. What gives? We never win the Ryder Cup. What sport are we dominant in now? Lacrosse maybe.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
9/5/2006  9:15 AM
Coach K must be a horrible coach
I just hope that people will like me
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
9/5/2006  10:33 AM
Posted by tomverve:

Great post by Dan Rosenbaum from the APBRmetric board about this, pasted below. In a nutshell, offense is NOT the problem whatsoever-- the offense was very good, it's just that the defense was drop-dead awful. Rosenbaum thinks we couldn't guard the pick and roll because coach K committed to a defensive style that relies too much on trying to force turnovers and doesn't feature enough help defense concepts. Chris Sheridan has been saying the same thing on ESPN for a while now.

Forget about blaming the loss on a deficiency in the offense, whether you think it's not enough shooting or too much one-on-one play. Maybe both of those areas could use improvement, but we're talking about the difference between "great" and "perfect." We don't really need to upgrade the offense from great to perfect, we need to upgrade the defense from putrid to at least acceptable levels. And it's not so much about one-on-one D as it is about play help D as a team.
According to my calculations, Team USA had an offensive efficiency of 128.1 points per 100 possessions in the loss against Greece. To put that into perspective, the difference between 128.1 and the best team in the NBA last season (Phoenix at 114.1) was larger than the difference between the best team in the NBA and the worst (Portland at 103.3). So, according to NBA standards, Team USA had a phenomenal offensive game.

But if you go to the polling at ESPN.com, most respondents to a poll are blaming "poor outside shooting" as the #1 reason Team USA lost. Of course, Team USA could have shot better from the three-point line, but with their off the charts offensive efficiency, it seems remarkable that most people are pointing to the offense as the excuse for the loss.

To further drive home this point, 62.2% of the respondents say that Michael Redd or another outside shooter would have made the difference in this game. Again that is remarkable.

Team USA lost this game because it could not defend Greece. Plain and simple. Our defensive efficiency was 136.2 points per 100 possessions. Greece did shoot the ball pretty well, but that was not the main story here. Greece got a lot of layups, mismatches, and wide open looks at threes. And they converted on those high percentage opportunities.

And this is not a matter of teams playing more efficient offense in international basketball. Spain and Argentina averaged 101 points per 100 possessions in their semi-final match-up, which is lower than that of any NBA team.

This was not a matter of Team USA not playing hard or even smart on defense. Or "a lack of fundamentals." To me it looked like Team USA was executing the defensive game plan, but the defensive game plan had no answer for the pick and roll. And with Team USA forcing just 4 steals for the whole game, the pressure defense that bothered lesser teams had no positive effect. What happened was that the pressure defense led to Team USA defending the pick and roll with no help defense and I just don't think there is much of a track record of that working well against skilled professionals.

Playing the type of defense that Team USA plays, it can be OK if they are able to force 10 or more steals a game like they did in the earlier contests. But against better teams where it is hard to force so many steals, this defensive strategy of pressuring the ball and playing the passing lanes makes it impossible for even good athletes like those on Team USA to play effective defense.

Remember at the end of the day, if Team USA was able to play defense at the level of the worst defensive team in the NBA last season - Seattle at 116.5 points per 100 possessions - we win this game by almost 10 points.

But before I close, I should add that it is possible that the type of defense that Coach K put in may be the best we can do in the short period of time we have to put together a team. Putting in a San Antonio-type keep-players-out-of-the-middle-and-off-the-three-point-line defense takes a lot of time, and maybe we don't have the time to do that on Team USA. Playing that type of defense may help us with the good teams, but against the lesser teams it may open us up to embarrassing defeats while we are still working out the kinks. There are a lot of tough choices to make - choices that need to be made by folks who know a helluva lot more about basketball than I do.

Tom--good piece and the final game proved it 90-47. I've also used the name Mike Redd, but there are two possibly three names that come to my mind for the future of this team.
A. Kobe Bryant--this may be cliche but I do believe that if we had him, we wouldve won. there were to many young guys who havent won anything--yes wade but thats not a team. Kobe is the leader --mentally physically that they missed.

I would like to see Greg Oden and either of Tim Duncan or KG play next time. I wasnt thrileed with either of Howard or Chris Bosh--especially defensively--i will even throw in a darkhorse name Joakim Noah of Florida. Id rather have the vets but I don't know if they will play--I think the young guys can. If anyone has seen Noah play, how perfect is he for this style of play? The guy is 7-1 and has every skill with tremendous length. He wouldve been the number 1 pick by a mile this year and really looks to be a unique type player you only see once every 5-10 years.If Oden wasnt coming out, Noah would go 1 next year. And Noah like KG can use that length on the perimeter--hes long enough to disrupt the pick and roll. I think what the USA was trying to do was score more than everyone like Pheonix.
RIP Crushalot😞
NYKBocker
Posts: 38525
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
9/5/2006  11:19 AM
I like the idea of sending the defending champs from the NBA and then filling it up with need players due to possible international players in the team. That would solve the cohesion and set play problems.
joec32033
Posts: 30632
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
9/5/2006  12:00 PM
I still think we are building this the absolute wrong way. How many American born players DOMINATE the international game overseas? That is who we should build this team with.

Anthony Parker was 3rd rated player in the league and league MVP, Venson Hamilton 5th, Shammond Williams was 6th, Will Solomon 10, Luis Bullock 12, Tyus Edney 13.

5 of the top 10 scorers were American(Bullock and Solomon were top 2, Edney was #4)(Quincey Lewis was 15, also). Top 2 rebounders (Parker and Hamilton) were American. 3 of top 10 in assists (Shammond WIlliams was #1, Edney and Solomon were in top 10, Parker was 13).

You can build a pretty good team of Americans that actually PLAY the European game-and not only play but almost dominate-and we can get better results with less red tape and concerns than we have now.

~You can't run from who you are.~
Masterplan
Posts: 21571
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2002
Member: #362
9/5/2006  1:42 PM
Posted by joec32033:

I still think we are building this the absolute wrong way. How many American born players DOMINATE the international game overseas? That is who we should build this team with.

Anthony Parker was 3rd rated player in the league and league MVP, Venson Hamilton 5th, Shammond Williams was 6th, Will Solomon 10, Luis Bullock 12, Tyus Edney 13.

5 of the top 10 scorers were American(Bullock and Solomon were top 2, Edney was #4)(Quincey Lewis was 15, also). Top 2 rebounders (Parker and Hamilton) were American. 3 of top 10 in assists (Shammond WIlliams was #1, Edney and Solomon were in top 10, Parker was 13).

You can build a pretty good team of Americans that actually PLAY the European game-and not only play but almost dominate-and we can get better results with less red tape and concerns than we have now.

i've wondered about that approach. good research on those names. wouldn't sell many team USA jerseys, but would be ready for what the rest of the world throws at us.
rojasmas
Posts: 21207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/25/2004
Member: #639
9/5/2006  6:24 PM
NBA champ might lose also. Imagine Shaq running around and defending the high pick and roll.
Also him missing his foul shots. We saw that great as Wade is, he still can't shoot the 3 with any consistency. I don't know if the Heat would have won.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
9/5/2006  6:31 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

NBA champ might lose also. Imagine Shaq running around and defending the high pick and roll.
Also him missing his foul shots. We saw that great as Wade is, he still can't shoot the 3 with any consistency. I don't know if the Heat would have won.


Rojasmas,

Anyone "might" lose, but what gives us the best chance of winning? The reason I say the NBA championship team is because they will have top-notch players AND will be a very good team as well. I wouldn't mind sending out the NCAA champs either. They might lose but at least we will be sending a real team.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
9/5/2006  6:33 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

NBA champ might lose also. Imagine Shaq running around and defending the high pick and roll.
Also him missing his foul shots. We saw that great as Wade is, he still can't shoot the 3 with any consistency. I don't know if the Heat would have won.



One other thing, you wouldn't make Shaq defend the high pick and roll much. It wouldn't be the right way to use him. More importantly, Shaq would foul out the entire front line of the other team, so whoever it was the were trying to make him chase probably could not stay in the game.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Marv
Posts: 35540
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
9/5/2006  9:22 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by rojasmas:

NBA champ might lose also. Imagine Shaq running around and defending the high pick and roll.
Also him missing his foul shots. We saw that great as Wade is, he still can't shoot the 3 with any consistency. I don't know if the Heat would have won.


Rojasmas,

Anyone "might" lose, but what gives us the best chance of winning? The reason I say the NBA championship team is because they will have top-notch players AND will be a very good team as well. I wouldn't mind sending out the NCAA champs either. They might lose but at least we will be sending a real team.

oohah

antoine would shimmy after a basket and we'd have WWIII on our hands.
rojasmas
Posts: 21207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/25/2004
Member: #639
9/5/2006  9:54 PM
I may be crazy, but I don't think the Heat would do that great. They would be prone to scoring droughts and a hot team, in a one game and out scenario, would eliminate them, more than likely. The process wouldn't favor our best team. Just as it didn't really with our major league baseball team and that team losing earlier than expected.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
9/6/2006  5:24 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by rojasmas:

NBA champ might lose also. Imagine Shaq running around and defending the high pick and roll.
Also him missing his foul shots. We saw that great as Wade is, he still can't shoot the 3 with any consistency. I don't know if the Heat would have won.


Rojasmas,

Anyone "might" lose, but what gives us the best chance of winning? The reason I say the NBA championship team is because they will have top-notch players AND will be a very good team as well. I wouldn't mind sending out the NCAA champs either. They might lose but at least we will be sending a real team.

oohah

antoine would shimmy after a basket and we'd have WWIII on our hands.

If the Germans could shimmy we'd all be part of Deutschland!

By the way, I haven't forgotten about you Marv, I just gotta push it back a bit.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 06-09-2006 05:24 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
9/6/2006  5:25 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

I may be crazy, but I don't think the Heat would do that great. They would be prone to scoring droughts and a hot team, in a one game and out scenario, would eliminate them, more than likely. The process wouldn't favor our best team. Just as it didn't really with our major league baseball team and that team losing earlier than expected.


You're crazy!!!

Maybe the Heat would lose, but I don't see a good working solution out there. What's the worst that could happen? The worst already happened twice!

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 06-09-2006 05:27 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
9/6/2006  6:52 AM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by rojasmas:

I may be crazy, but I don't think the Heat would do that great. They would be prone to scoring droughts and a hot team, in a one game and out scenario, would eliminate them, more than likely. The process wouldn't favor our best team. Just as it didn't really with our major league baseball team and that team losing earlier than expected.


You're crazy!!!

Maybe the Heat would lose, but I don't see a good working solution out there. What's the worst that could happen? The worst already happened twice!

oohah
I agree. We have no better idea than sending the best NBA team to the world championships.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Marv
Posts: 35540
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
9/6/2006  8:03 AM
Posted by oohah:


By the way, I haven't forgotten about you Marv, I just gotta push it back a bit.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 06-09-2006 05:24 AM]

no problem man.
Masterplan
Posts: 21571
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2002
Member: #362
9/6/2006  12:58 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by rojasmas:

NBA champ might lose also. Imagine Shaq running around and defending the high pick and roll.
Also him missing his foul shots. We saw that great as Wade is, he still can't shoot the 3 with any consistency. I don't know if the Heat would have won.


Rojasmas,

Anyone "might" lose, but what gives us the best chance of winning? The reason I say the NBA championship team is because they will have top-notch players AND will be a very good team as well. I wouldn't mind sending out the NCAA champs either. They might lose but at least we will be sending a real team.

oohah

oohah, do you really want shandon anderson representing your country ?

it is a tough question, though. maybe do something that resembles today's system but make an emphasis on getting groups of stars from the same teams, like kidd/carter, franbury, kobe odom... damn we're screwed.
Team USA loses to Greece. No more gold!

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy