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Bippity10
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8/18/2006  11:24 AM
I'm just waiting for Solace's contract to come off the books
I just hope that people will like me
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martin
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8/18/2006  11:31 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

I'm just waiting for Solace's contract to come off the books

you didn't hear? The guy just re-upped with a new team for the full MLE for 5 years. Good deal for both sides.
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nyk4ever
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8/18/2006  11:42 AM
Screw all of you. You all suck and I'm the best. All Alone NYK4EVER.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Masterplan
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8/18/2006  11:44 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Masterplan:

i'm pretty sure steph's katrina invovlement was based on more than getting himself some good PR.

oh shucks. Right now I don't really care for Marbury the basketball player but I strongly would disagree with the above. What makes you think it and what real hard proof do you have? If anything, his agents/PR folks pushed him into the spotlight. I just can't see Marbury instigating this.

matin, remember that press conference? that was some pretty hardcore emotional stuff. if steph's agents put him up on the stage, what poured out of him seemed entirely heartfelt to me. you didn't feel that?

I did... it was just about the only time I could take Marbury in front of a mic. Very good stuff right from the heart. I just don't think Marbury did the whole thing for PR purposes.

hey, now we're agreeing. that's basically what i said, and i also said marbury's done a lot of nice stuff seemingly NOT for PR. Marv apparently understood me...
martin
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8/18/2006  11:46 AM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Masterplan:

i'm pretty sure steph's katrina invovlement was based on more than getting himself some good PR.

oh shucks. Right now I don't really care for Marbury the basketball player but I strongly would disagree with the above. What makes you think it and what real hard proof do you have? If anything, his agents/PR folks pushed him into the spotlight. I just can't see Marbury instigating this.

matin, remember that press conference? that was some pretty hardcore emotional stuff. if steph's agents put him up on the stage, what poured out of him seemed entirely heartfelt to me. you didn't feel that?

I did... it was just about the only time I could take Marbury in front of a mic. Very good stuff right from the heart. I just don't think Marbury did the whole thing for PR purposes.

hey, now we're agreeing. that's basically what i said, and i also said marbury's done a lot of nice stuff seemingly NOT for PR. Marv apparently understood me...

oh whoops... I may have read that wrong.
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wsdm
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8/18/2006  1:55 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Masterplan:

i'm pretty sure steph's katrina invovlement was based on more than getting himself some good PR.

oh shucks. Right now I don't really care for Marbury the basketball player but I strongly would disagree with the above. What makes you think it and what real hard proof do you have? If anything, his agents/PR folks pushed him into the spotlight. I just can't see Marbury instigating this.

matin, remember that press conference? that was some pretty hardcore emotional stuff. if steph's agents put him up on the stage, what poured out of him seemed entirely heartfelt to me. you didn't feel that?
Yeah, I'm disappointed to hear that kind of cynicism put on Marbury's charitable work. He's done much more than most people and we should just thank him for it.

www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
Bippity10
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8/18/2006  2:05 PM
Okay, someone write a letter to Marbs about how we love his charity work. He deserves our respect and appreciation for his efforts. He needs to hear from the fans that we are happy to see that some people haven't lost a grip on where they came from and it's great to see him give back to his community. We can all sign it and put a big UK salute on it.

Then we can write another letter telling him to take that same charitable attitude he shows off the court and bring it to the court instead of constantly whining and making excuses like a biotch. Just play.

Off-court and On-court for me are two seperate things. One has nothing to do with the other. Some people are great off the court and would stab you in the brain on the court and vice versa. When I'm watching the Knicks I could give to flying f's about their off court contributions. NO MORE NUMBERS STEPH. NO MORE TALK. NO MORE EXCUSE. EFFORT IS ALL I WANT.

Good luck with the sneakers, I will buy some for my nephews.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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8/18/2006  2:07 PM
Oh and by the way so the "lovers" don't think I'm piling on marbs be clear that I would copy that second letter and send it to every player on the Knicks.
I just hope that people will like me
wsdm
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8/18/2006  3:13 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Okay, someone write a letter to Marbs about how we love his charity work. He deserves our respect and appreciation for his efforts. He needs to hear from the fans that we are happy to see that some people haven't lost a grip on where they came from and it's great to see him give back to his community. We can all sign it and put a big UK salute on it.

Then we can write another letter telling him to take that same charitable attitude he shows off the court and bring it to the court instead of constantly whining and making excuses like a biotch. Just play.

Yeah, I'd definitely agree with that. I really like Steph and want him to do well. He's my favorite player. But he needs to do some growing up on the court. I'm optimistic that we'll get closer to the 80% mature Marbury under Isiah (mature, good decision-maker 80% of the time).
www.selltheknicks.com----No more DOLANOMICS!
Andrew
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8/18/2006  3:21 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Nah it's actually from The Rock, Sean Connery's real line: Losers always whine about doing their best, winners go home and **** the prom-queen.

Just for the record I married a prom queen.
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newyorknewyork
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8/18/2006  3:42 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by Bippity10:

I do find one thing very weird. Just another observation, I don't have an opinion on this. But some people say Isiah has done a great job of adding talent to the team. Then when the losses increase year to year some of the same people say Marbs' has no talent next to him. I guess you can have it both ways.



On the flip side. The knicks are a poorly constructed roster. With a bunch of overpaid, redundant, underachievers. The defense for everything not Isiah & Marbury is just as strong.

The knicks have talent. But its not put together talent. Curry & Crawford (to name a few) have great talent. But its far from put together or complete. Isiah gotta find the roles that each person excells at and put them in a position of strength. We gotta force teams to play are game. We have a team full of guys who can put the ball in the basket right. There for Isiahs job as coach is to exploit that and win games doing so.

So what you're saying is that as a coach Isiah has to perform Magic with the poorly constructed roster that he put together? Kind of like what he's been asking his other FOUR COACHES to do.

I actually liked the job Chaney did when he was here. Knicks averaged the most 3s, and had the least amount of turnovers. He had them playing to the best of there abilities. Swapping Sprewell for KVH was a bad move that Dolan & Layden wanted. Isiah wanted to clean house and didn't care to give him a shot. I liked what Wilkens did to. To bad Houston went down with career ending injury. And to bad Houston, Crawford, Tim Thomas, Kurt Thomas, Sweetney all went down with injuryduring the worst month in Knicks history which got Lenny fired. And it wasn't performing magic for what Larry Brown was asked to do last season. He just wanted to do his own thing. I understood what he wanted. And I understood what Isiah and Dolan wanted. But I feel Brown should have been the one more understanding of the situation and fell back a little until the knicks had the flexability to do what he wanted to do. But he is old school and old school guys are stubborn.

I don't feel its magic to put guys in position of strength. What would be magic would be trying to turn Curry into a complete player or trying to turn Crawford into a complete player and depending on them to do so. In practice they should be working on being complete players. But during games stick to the bread and butter and let Isiah figure out the matchups in which there bread and butter will overshadow there weaknesses. The difference in Isiah and Brown is Brown is not a good offensive mind. In order for last yrs roster to have had success they had to stick to there bread and butter which was offense. If we had Flip Saunders mind with last yrs roster we would have done WAAAAY better as our offensive punch would have overshadowed our defense for the regular season. That doesn't make Saunders better than Brown just a better fit for the roster. But Brown would be able to win you a championship eventually as you mold it to his liking. Thats why you would want to stick with Brown. Isiah has a very good offensive mind and he also has added more defensive minded perimeter players. He also has the ability to make players play hard for him.

All im saying is I think Isiah is in better position and a better fit than all the other coaches. So you can't really compare there situations. But if they fail, I will join the tirade. But until then I will be sip sipping on my kool-aid.
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oohah
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8/18/2006  4:35 PM
by "true colors" i mean that they underachieved last year, but we have no real idea how much. the debate is, do we have a team of underacheiving losers, or was it larry's fault? i see no reason this year should be effected by last year. whatever their record is, that is what our team is now. if we win 33 games, IT has assembled an expensive lottery team of losers. if we win 40, we have a borderline playoff team with some youth not yet at their potential that got screwed last season. no excuses.

does that make more sense?

Hmmm, what you say makes absolute sense and it does not contradict what I am saying either.

And let's not forget the original question you asked me: "oohah- so, if we win somewhere in the mid-30's, then does that mean that IT has actually assembled a cast of losers and should be gone?"

This team is pretty much in the exact same spot they were last year. (This is really the only relevance LB has and why we can use his job as a standard.) They are not improved except slightly on paper with JJ2 and Balkman. They do not know each other on the court the way they should, they still need to establish an identity, who the real leaders are, etc... I don't know if you would consider this to be "effected by last year" or not.

All it means is we should not be expecting miracles just because LB has been ejected and IT is standing in his spot. It will take time. This team will have to learn to play together and they will probably take some lumps along the way.

That is why I am looking for a quite reasonable 37-41. Just like I was last year. I hold IT and LB to the same standard. Other guys seem eager to see "Marsiah" fail and have projected "higher minimum wins for satisfaction" based on what "Should have happened last year". This is absurd. We cannot build on something that never happened. They cannot build on a non-existant result.

What should have happened last year is what better happen this year: The Knicks should be reasonably competitive, contend for a playoff spot and hopefully make the playoffs. But if It wins just 37, he has shown what I would have expected last year, and I will be satisfied, though not happy.

I think that is fair and reasonable, don't you?

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 08-18-2006 4:36 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Masterplan
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8/18/2006  5:01 PM
oohah-

i agree we're not really arguing with each other. partly it comes down to numbers. you say you'd be happy with 37 wins, and i say i'd be unhappy with 33. no real beef there. just, if the knicks end up in between, it could still be ambiguous and we have to look at stuff like "promise" and "improvement" that are tougher to judge. that's the mid-30's i was talking about, the gray area.

i guess i may have slightly higher expectations of IT than you, and slightly less patience. either way i hope we exceed them.
"Marsiah"

is that a combo of "isiah" and "messiah?"
oohah
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8/18/2006  5:13 PM
is that a combo of "isiah" and "messiah?"

Marsiah = Marbury + Isiah.

36 wins and I am unhappy with Isiah.

The reason I have lower expectations is because it hurts less and they are easier to exceed. That last few years have trained me!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Masterplan
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8/18/2006  5:16 PM
The reason I have lower expectations is because it hurts less and they are easier to exceed. That last few years have trained me!

they've made me bitter
Anji
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8/18/2006  5:34 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by holfresh:


Just one thing tho...If Isiah some how get this same roster that Larry had to 40 victories, please admit that Larry was the reason for the 23 wins and not Marbs or Isiah or Curry or JJ....I'm laying my balls on the line that things will get turned around this year...I just hope many of you Larry lovers will do the same....



Now you are really living in a dream world holfresh. Get ready for a lot of "I never said that", or simply a lot of new tunes whistlin' while dudes pretend they never held the contrary opinion.

I find it easier to say: "I was wrong." Less tapdancing.

oohah
Pretty much........... and you forgot the,"Check my post", defense. LOL
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nyk4ever
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8/18/2006  5:52 PM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by holfresh:


Just one thing tho...If Isiah some how get this same roster that Larry had to 40 victories, please admit that Larry was the reason for the 23 wins and not Marbs or Isiah or Curry or JJ....I'm laying my balls on the line that things will get turned around this year...I just hope many of you Larry lovers will do the same....



Now you are really living in a dream world holfresh. Get ready for a lot of "I never said that", or simply a lot of new tunes whistlin' while dudes pretend they never held the contrary opinion.

I find it easier to say: "I was wrong." Less tapdancing.

oohah
Pretty much........... and you forgot the,"Check my post", defense. LOL

If the Knicks play Team basketball and Marbury, Curry, Frye are all playing good defense you can come knocking at my door and I will be right there saying you guys were right. I'm firm in my beliefs but I also know when I'm wrong. I don't think I'll be wrong here but I'll be happy if I am because if those guys do that than the Knicks will be winning basketball games and that is by far the most important thing.
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oohah
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8/18/2006  6:02 PM
If the Knicks play Team basketball and Marbury, Curry, Frye are all playing good defense you can come knocking at my door and I will be right there saying you guys were right.

Oh man, that will be too delicious to pass up!

Lessgoknickz!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Solace
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8/19/2006  5:54 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bippity10:

I'm just waiting for Solace's contract to come off the books

you didn't hear? The guy just re-upped with a new team for the full MLE for 5 years. Good deal for both sides.

Bwahahaha. And the new team is in Jersey. :P On the minus side, I owe the "Knicks" some tuition payments back.

Anyway, the contract that's really bogging down the team is Stevie "Bippity" Francis's massive deal. :P
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
nixluva
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8/19/2006  2:47 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

If the Knicks play Team basketball and Marbury, Curry, Frye are all playing good defense you can come knocking at my door and I will be right there saying you guys were right. I'm firm in my beliefs but I also know when I'm wrong. I don't think I'll be wrong here but I'll be happy if I am because if those guys do that than the Knicks will be winning basketball games and that is by far the most important thing.

How about if the team simply WINS no matter how it gets that done? Its to vague to say playing good defense. If they play well enough to win games that is sufficient. Not every team is going to be good on both ends. Tho I expect the defense to be better than last year. For one thing there will be consistency and that alone helps ANY team to play better defense. I'm not expecting miracles tho. Having Jared will help cuz now at least we have someone who can hold his own in most cases at the SF spot where we often got torched.

Look this is an OFFENSIVE team and if we're functioning on a high level as we should that will put more pressure on the other team. We didn't see that last year for a lot of reasons. Tho this team should've been a VERY good offensive team. I expect that to actually happen this year. I thought we'd have to win with our offense last year and nothing much has changed. Sure we'll have to be better defensively, but this ain't the Pistons. In truth teams often blew us out, cuz we SUCKED on offense. It was easy to defend our lame attack thanks to LB. We made too many TO's, most of which were unforced. I think that will change due to having an offense that actually fits the players strengths. We're gonna put points up and we'll have to use TIMELY defensive stops to win games, cuz we can't expect this team to defend great for 48 minutes. Its just not equipped to be that kind of team. But I think you'll all be pleasantly surprised with how much better we look on D this year. We may start off slow, but I expect things to pick up as the team gets more familiar with the new system.
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