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O.T. War in the middle East...
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NumberTwoPencil
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7/15/2006  12:14 AM
I'd feel a lot worse about this new war if we hadn't won so decisively in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least our army isn't pinned down in the ME and that have resupplied and rested. And thank goodness democracy has taken hold in Iraq and Afghanistan. I have to confess I was worried when the wars started that we might get bogged down and end up occupying Iraq and Afghanistan for years. And, hey, even if oil prices go up, well, we're not starting from $75 a barrel or anything like that.





AUTOADVERT
arkrud
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7/15/2006  12:23 AM
Democracy...
The same one as in Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran...
Nice little Islamic democracy...
Are you kidding man or what?
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
BasketballJones
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7/15/2006  12:25 AM
Mission Accomplished.

[Edited by - BASKETBALLJONES on 07-15-2006 00:26]
https:// It's not so hard.
BasketballJones
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7/15/2006  12:27 AM
Posted by arkrud:

Democracy...
The same one as in Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran...
Nice little Islamic democracy...
Are you kidding man or what?
Duh? I think the might be a tippoff.

[Edited by - BASKETBALLJONES on 07-15-2006 00:27]
https:// It's not so hard.
arkrud
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7/15/2006  12:32 AM
Yep.. You are right.

Companies get their money, mothers get their coffins, soldiers their artificial legs and hands, and we get the fat energy bill.

Mission Accomplished.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
BasketballJones
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7/15/2006  12:34 AM
Don't forget the global warming.
https:// It's not so hard.
arkrud
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7/15/2006  1:07 AM
I dont think it is Mr. Bush fault.
However...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Solace
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7/15/2006  6:40 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Solace:

Killa, you make some very good arguments. With Iraq, I have very mixed feelings. When it comes to the decisions this country makes, it's hard to not be a little suspicious of the motivations sometimes. With Israel's situation, I think it's more clear cut.

I'm here to make you stop mixing your feelings on Iraq. The proof is all over the place, we want to believe that our gov't is doing the right thing,but they are definitely not. What is it you are unclear about?

Well certainly, I've seen Loose Change 2, which makes me even more suspicious, because while LC2 isn't 100% accurate, it brings up some excellent points and really gets you thinking. Furthermore, the world is run by money, so now think about it, if our motives were money, is there some possibility we had some knowledge of 9/11 before it happened and we let it happen for financial reasons.... or even didn't know but covered up our own government's screw up, because of the potential financial gain. Then what's going on in Iraq, in reality, from what happened in 9/11 I don't think we should've been in Iraq. At the same time, the terrorists do need to be dealt with, in some way, but I can't say I'm happy with how we handled it or our justification for being there. My feelings are mixed, because these terrorists have attacked many times before, often without justification or warning, and the victims always seem to be civilians. Then, of course, we spent so much money rebuilding Iraq. Anyway, put all these things together, and yes, my feelings are quite mixed about the Iraq situation.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Killa4luv
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7/15/2006  5:31 PM
What Are They Fighting For
By Prof. Tanya Reinhart
Source: Information Clearing House

– Whatever may be the fate of the captive soldier Gilad Shalit, the Israeli army’s war in Gaza is not about him. As senior security analyst Alex Fishman widely reported, the army was preparing for an attack months earlier and was constantly pushing for it, with the goal of destroying the Hamas infrastructure and its government. The army initiated an escalation on 8 June when it assassinated Abu Samhadana, a senior appointee of the Hamas government, and intensified its shelling of civilians in the Gaza Strip. Governmental authorization for action on a larger scale was already given by 12 June, but it was postponed in the wake of the global reverberation caused by the killing of civilians in the air force bombing the next day. The abduction of the soldier released the safety-catch, and the operation began on 28 June with the destruction of infrastructure in Gaza and the mass detention of the Hamas leadership in the West Bank, which was also planned weeks in advance. (1)

In Israeli discourse, Israel ended the occupation in Gaza when it evacuated its settlers from the Strip, and the Palestinians’ behavior therefore constitutes ingratitude. But there is nothing further from reality than this description. In fact, as was already stipulated in the Disengagement Plan, Gaza remained under complete Israeli military control, operating from outside. Israel prevented any possibility of economic independence for the Strip and from the very beginning, Israel did not implement a single one of the clauses of the agreement on border-crossings of November 2005. Israel simply substituted the expensive occupation of Gaza with a cheap occupation, one which in Israel’s view exempts it from the occupier’s responsibility to maintain the Strip, and from concern for the welfare and the lives of its million and a half residents, as determined in the fourth Geneva convention.

Israel does not need this piece of land, one of the most densely populated in the world, and lacking any natural resources. The problem is that one cannot let Gaza free, if one wants to keep the West Bank. A third of the occupied Palestinians live in the Gaza strip. If they are given freedom, they would become the center of Palestinian struggle for liberation, with free access to the Western and Arab world. To control the West Bank, Israel needs full control Gaza. The new form of control Israel has developed is turning the whole of the Strip into a prison camp completely sealed from the world.

Besieged occupied people with nothing to hope for, and no alternative means of political struggle, will always seek ways to fight their oppressor. The imprisoned Gaza Palestinians found a way to disturb the life of the Israelis in the vicinity of the Strip, by launching home-made Qassam rockets across the Gaza wall against Israeli towns bordering the Strip. These primitive rockets lack the precision to focus on a target, and have rarely caused Israeli casualties; they do however cause physical and psychological damage and seriously disturb life in the targeted Israeli neighborhoods. In the eyes of many Palestinians, the Qassams are a response to the war Israel has declared on them. As a student from Gaza said to the New York Times, “Why should we be the only ones who live in fear? With these rockets, the Israelis feel fear, too. We will have to live in peace together, or live in fear together.” (2)

The mightiest army in the Middle East has no military answer to these home-made rockets. One answer that presents itself is what Hamas has been proposing all along, and Haniyeh repeated this week - a comprehensive cease-fire. Hamas has proven already that it can keep its word. In the 17 months since it announced its decision to abandon armed struggle in favor of political struggle, and declared a unilateral cease-fire (“tahdiya” - calm), it did not participate in the launching of Qassams, except under severe Israeli provocation, as happened in the June escalation. However, Hamas remains committed to political struggle against the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. In Israel’s view, the Palestinians elections results is a disaster, because for the first time they have a leadership that insists on representing Palestinian interests rather than just collaborating with Israel’s demands.

Since ending the occupation is the one thing Israel is not willing to consider, the option promoted by the army is breaking the Palestinians by devastating brutal force. They should be starved, bombarded, terrorized with sonic booms for months, until they understand that rebelling is futile, and accepting prison life is their only hope for staying alive. Their elected political system, institutions and police should be destroyed. In Israel’s vision, Gaza should be ruled by gangs collaborating with the prison wards.

The Israeli army is hungry for war. It would not let concerns for captive soldiers stand in its way. Since 2002 the army has argued that an “operation” along the lines of “Defensive Shield” in Jenin was also necessary in Gaza. Exactly a year ago, on 15 July (before the Disengagement), the army concentrated forces on the border of the Strip for an offensive of this scale on Gaza. But then the USA imposed a veto. Rice arrived for an emergency visit that was described as acrimonious and stormy, and the army was forced to back down (3). Now, the time has finally came. With the Islamophobia of the American Administration at a high point, it appears that the USA is prepared to authorize such an operation, on condition that it not provoke a global outcry with excessively-reported attacks on civilians.(4)

With the green light for the offensive given, the army’s only concern is public image. Fishman reported this Tuesday that the army is worried that “what threatens to burry this huge military and diplomatic effort” is reports of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Hence, the army would take care to let some food into Gaza. (5) From this perspective, it is necessary to feed the Palestinians in Gaza so that it would be possible to continue to kill them undisturbed.
A shorter version of this article was scheduled to appear Thursday, July 13 in Yediot Aharonot, but postponed to next week because of the developments in Southern Lebanon. (*)

*Parts of this article were translated from Hebrew by Mark Marshall.

(1) Alex Fishman, Who is for the elimination of Hamas, Yediot Aharonot Saturday Supplement, June 30, 2006. See also Alex Fishman, The safety-catch released, Yediot Aharonot June 21, 2006 (Hebrew), Aluf Benn, An operation with two goals, Ha’aretz, June 29 2006.

(2) Greg Myre, Rockets Create a ‘Balance of Fear’ With Israel, Gaza Residents Say. The New York Times, July 9, 2006.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/world/middleeast/09rockets.html?ex=1310097

(3) Steven Erlanger, “U.S. Presses Israel to Smooth the Path to a Palestinian Gaza”, New York Times, August 7 2005. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/07/international/middleeast/07israel.html?ex=1281067200&en=82f12ac7eed5ee24&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss The planned July 2005 offensive is documented in detail in my The Road Map to Nowhere - Israel Palestine since 2003, Verso, September 2006.

(4) For a detailed survey of the U.S. administration’s present stands, see Ori Nir, U.S. Seen Backing Israeli Moves To Topple Hamas, The Forward, July 7, 2006. http://www.forward.com/articles/8063

(5) Alex Fishman, Their food is finished, Yediot Aharonot, July 11, 2006.

Copyright Tanya Reinhart http://www.tau.ac.il/~reinhart/
Israel is a facist state, there is no way around that fact.
TemujinKnick
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7/15/2006  5:53 PM
The way around that is that it's not a fact. Not even close. If you really think that I feel sorry for you. I hope you never experience what real fascism is.
firefly
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7/15/2006  6:31 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
What Are They Fighting For
By Prof. Tanya Reinhart
Source: Information Clearing House

– Whatever may be the fate of the captive soldier Gilad Shalit, the Israeli army’s war in Gaza is not about him. As senior security analyst Alex Fishman widely reported, the army was preparing for an attack months earlier and was constantly pushing for it, with the goal of destroying the Hamas infrastructure and its government. The army initiated an escalation on 8 June when it assassinated Abu Samhadana, a senior appointee of the Hamas government, and intensified its shelling of civilians in the Gaza Strip. Governmental authorization for action on a larger scale was already given by 12 June, but it was postponed in the wake of the global reverberation caused by the killing of civilians in the air force bombing the next day. The abduction of the soldier released the safety-catch, and the operation began on 28 June with the destruction of infrastructure in Gaza and the mass detention of the Hamas leadership in the West Bank, which was also planned weeks in advance. (1)

In Israeli discourse, Israel ended the occupation in Gaza when it evacuated its settlers from the Strip, and the Palestinians’ behavior therefore constitutes ingratitude. But there is nothing further from reality than this description. In fact, as was already stipulated in the Disengagement Plan, Gaza remained under complete Israeli military control, operating from outside. Israel prevented any possibility of economic independence for the Strip and from the very beginning, Israel did not implement a single one of the clauses of the agreement on border-crossings of November 2005. Israel simply substituted the expensive occupation of Gaza with a cheap occupation, one which in Israel’s view exempts it from the occupier’s responsibility to maintain the Strip, and from concern for the welfare and the lives of its million and a half residents, as determined in the fourth Geneva convention.

Israel does not need this piece of land, one of the most densely populated in the world, and lacking any natural resources. The problem is that one cannot let Gaza free, if one wants to keep the West Bank. A third of the occupied Palestinians live in the Gaza strip. If they are given freedom, they would become the center of Palestinian struggle for liberation, with free access to the Western and Arab world. To control the West Bank, Israel needs full control Gaza. The new form of control Israel has developed is turning the whole of the Strip into a prison camp completely sealed from the world.

Besieged occupied people with nothing to hope for, and no alternative means of political struggle, will always seek ways to fight their oppressor. The imprisoned Gaza Palestinians found a way to disturb the life of the Israelis in the vicinity of the Strip, by launching home-made Qassam rockets across the Gaza wall against Israeli towns bordering the Strip. These primitive rockets lack the precision to focus on a target, and have rarely caused Israeli casualties; they do however cause physical and psychological damage and seriously disturb life in the targeted Israeli neighborhoods. In the eyes of many Palestinians, the Qassams are a response to the war Israel has declared on them. As a student from Gaza said to the New York Times, “Why should we be the only ones who live in fear? With these rockets, the Israelis feel fear, too. We will have to live in peace together, or live in fear together.” (2)

The mightiest army in the Middle East has no military answer to these home-made rockets. One answer that presents itself is what Hamas has been proposing all along, and Haniyeh repeated this week - a comprehensive cease-fire. Hamas has proven already that it can keep its word. In the 17 months since it announced its decision to abandon armed struggle in favor of political struggle, and declared a unilateral cease-fire (“tahdiya” - calm), it did not participate in the launching of Qassams, except under severe Israeli provocation, as happened in the June escalation. However, Hamas remains committed to political struggle against the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. In Israel’s view, the Palestinians elections results is a disaster, because for the first time they have a leadership that insists on representing Palestinian interests rather than just collaborating with Israel’s demands.

Since ending the occupation is the one thing Israel is not willing to consider, the option promoted by the army is breaking the Palestinians by devastating brutal force. They should be starved, bombarded, terrorized with sonic booms for months, until they understand that rebelling is futile, and accepting prison life is their only hope for staying alive. Their elected political system, institutions and police should be destroyed. In Israel’s vision, Gaza should be ruled by gangs collaborating with the prison wards.

The Israeli army is hungry for war. It would not let concerns for captive soldiers stand in its way. Since 2002 the army has argued that an “operation” along the lines of “Defensive Shield” in Jenin was also necessary in Gaza. Exactly a year ago, on 15 July (before the Disengagement), the army concentrated forces on the border of the Strip for an offensive of this scale on Gaza. But then the USA imposed a veto. Rice arrived for an emergency visit that was described as acrimonious and stormy, and the army was forced to back down (3). Now, the time has finally came. With the Islamophobia of the American Administration at a high point, it appears that the USA is prepared to authorize such an operation, on condition that it not provoke a global outcry with excessively-reported attacks on civilians.(4)

With the green light for the offensive given, the army’s only concern is public image. Fishman reported this Tuesday that the army is worried that “what threatens to burry this huge military and diplomatic effort” is reports of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Hence, the army would take care to let some food into Gaza. (5) From this perspective, it is necessary to feed the Palestinians in Gaza so that it would be possible to continue to kill them undisturbed.
A shorter version of this article was scheduled to appear Thursday, July 13 in Yediot Aharonot, but postponed to next week because of the developments in Southern Lebanon. (*)

*Parts of this article were translated from Hebrew by Mark Marshall.

(1) Alex Fishman, Who is for the elimination of Hamas, Yediot Aharonot Saturday Supplement, June 30, 2006. See also Alex Fishman, The safety-catch released, Yediot Aharonot June 21, 2006 (Hebrew), Aluf Benn, An operation with two goals, Ha’aretz, June 29 2006.

(2) Greg Myre, Rockets Create a ‘Balance of Fear’ With Israel, Gaza Residents Say. The New York Times, July 9, 2006.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/world/middleeast/09rockets.html?ex=1310097

(3) Steven Erlanger, “U.S. Presses Israel to Smooth the Path to a Palestinian Gaza”, New York Times, August 7 2005. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/07/international/middleeast/07israel.html?ex=1281067200&en=82f12ac7eed5ee24&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss The planned July 2005 offensive is documented in detail in my The Road Map to Nowhere - Israel Palestine since 2003, Verso, September 2006.

(4) For a detailed survey of the U.S. administration’s present stands, see Ori Nir, U.S. Seen Backing Israeli Moves To Topple Hamas, The Forward, July 7, 2006. http://www.forward.com/articles/8063

(5) Alex Fishman, Their food is finished, Yediot Aharonot, July 11, 2006.

Copyright Tanya Reinhart http://www.tau.ac.il/~reinhart/
Israel is a facist state, there is no way around that fact.

You know what Killa? If you want to believe this article go right ahead. I've lived in Israel and I know for a fact that most of this article is pure falsehood. Ask the author of this piece about the holocauset, I wonder what they would say.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
Silverfuel
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7/15/2006  6:38 PM
Killa, how are these facts? They are one persons interpretation of event in the past and present. Not to mention this article is full of typical anti-Israel rhetoric. Sad part is that the Hezbollah intensified this war only so that they can gain some credibility in the Sunni dominated middle-east. These are the same guys that danced in the streets when the twin towers came down. There is something wrong with these fundametalists and history has shown there is no negotiating with them.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Rich
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7/15/2006  10:02 PM
After 9/11, I was in favor of the US cleaning out the Bekka Valley of terrorists rather than invading Iraq. It would have done far more toward furthering the goals of winning the war on terrorism and promoting peace in the Middle East.
simrud
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7/15/2006  11:10 PM
Killa is just an antisemitic racist punk. I would not recommend to anybody to waste their time agruing with him. He is not even man enough to admit he hates Jews, so he has to come up with roundabout ways of attacking them. I respect the terrorists more than I do him. At least they are ohnest in their intensions.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
PresIke
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7/16/2006  12:00 AM
Posted by firefly:

Democratic countries dont target ordinary people on the street. Terrorists do.


Firefly, you certainly can't believe that to be true. Generally, most modern democratic countries are relatively hesitant to kill civilians but the reality is that "democratic" countries have targeted civilians, as in the case of the US dropping nukes on Hiroshima & Nagasaki in WW II, if they determine that that is the way to end a conflict. Fortunately, most countries are hesitant to drop nuclear bombs because of the political ramifications of such an action.

However, one could argue that launching missiles or any other kind of strong military incursion into heavily populated areas (by civilians) via a given state is related to the justification for the past nuclear attacks. The problem is that so-called "terrorist" groups reside, for their own reasons, in these areas purposely as to make states like Israel and the US -- who are unpopular with locals -- look bad. Why do they stay there? Well, those who hate these "terrorist" groups see this as a way of "unfairly" bringing those who are "innocent" into the conflict and manipulate locals hatred of Israel and the US to their advantage. The reason groups like Hezbollah do this is because they cannot match Israel militarily so they use other tactics where they have an advantage, like propaganda/perception with their public.

I'm not saying I approve of Hezbollah's' tactics, but I don't necessarily see them as "terrorists." Terrorists is a dirty word in the West, which demeans Hezbollah's goals, and are arguably just as defensible as Israel's right to exist as a state and use force to maintain it. Do I think it's reasonable to say Israel should seize to exist now? Not really, but they are hardly innocent, nor are the Western powers who helped create the state of Israel and use Eastern European Jews for their own strategic/economic agenda, nor are the Arab nations who have used/neglected the Palestinians and Lebanese for their own political reasons.

Let's not turn this into a oversimplistic fight of "good" (democratic nations) against "evil" ("terrorists") because there is very little evidence to support such a sophomoric argument regarding the constant conflict of that region, and does little towards resolving it.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Rich
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7/16/2006  12:05 AM
Dropping the bomb during WWII saved lives by shortening the war. It was a cost/benefit calculus.
PresIke
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7/16/2006  12:28 AM
Posted by Rich:

Dropping the bomb during WWII saved lives by shortening the war. It was a cost/benefit calculus.

Yes, that's the argument presented by proponents of dropping the bomb in WW II (of which is not the consensus as there are respected historians who disagree with this assessment), but that does not take away the fact that the target of "the bomb" was civilians. The idea of targeting civilians had a purpose, as you outlined in your post, to end the war and "save" (American) lives. The killing of civilians by "terrorist organizations" also, usually, has an expressed goal in mind. In the case of Hezbollah, their attacks of military and civilian targets purpose is to eliminate the state of Israel.



[Edited by - PresIke on 07-16-2006 12:29 AM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Rich
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7/16/2006  12:30 AM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by Rich:

Dropping the bomb during WWII saved lives by shortening the war. It was a cost/benefit calculus.

Yes, that's the argument presented by proponents of dropping the bomb in WW II (of which is not the consensus as there are respected historians who disagree), but that does not take away the fact that the target of "the bomb" was civilians. The idea of targeting civilians had a purpose, as you outlined in your post, to end the war and "save" (American) lives. The killing of civilians by "terrorist organizations" also, usually, has an expressed goal in mind. In the case of Hezbollah, their attacks of military and civilian targets purpose is to eliminate the state of Israel.

But that's the important difference: Hezbollah's goal is evil, while the US's goal in WWII was noble by any objective standard.

[Edited by - Rich on 07-16-2006 12:30 AM]
Bobby
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7/16/2006  1:08 AM
the casulty of war and the lost of innocent life has become the human standard in the middle east.....very very sad.

israel is the superpower in the middle east. watch how they surgically isolate lebanon
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
PresIke
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7/16/2006  3:28 AM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by Rich:

Dropping the bomb during WWII saved lives by shortening the war. It was a cost/benefit calculus.

Yes, that's the argument presented by proponents of dropping the bomb in WW II (of which is not the consensus as there are respected historians who disagree), but that does not take away the fact that the target of "the bomb" was civilians. The idea of targeting civilians had a purpose, as you outlined in your post, to end the war and "save" (American) lives. The killing of civilians by "terrorist organizations" also, usually, has an expressed goal in mind. In the case of Hezbollah, their attacks of military and civilian targets purpose is to eliminate the state of Israel.

But that's the important difference: Hezbollah's goal is evil, while the US's goal in WWII was noble by any objective standard.

[Edited by - Rich on 07-16-2006 12:30 AM]

Hmm....I'm not so sure about that. What is one group's evil is another group's good, and vice versa. Perspective is extremely important when considering "good" and "evil" and to suggest that those oppossed to Israel's existence are merely "evil" is arguably worse than saying that Native Americans who see America as lacking the right to exist (which is a reasonable perspective, based upon history, I might add) are "evil." I say this based on the fact that Israel, as a state, is a modern pheonenon. which gives it less authority than those that have been around previous to the 20th century (at least) like the U.S..

One must understand that in the minds of many Arabs (as well as other Muslims, and other critics) the state of Israel is essentially a colony of the West and therefore an extention of the constant aggression and disrespect of Arabs and Muslims (which some see as occurring since the Crusades, and then with the Reconquista and Explusion of Muslims --and Jews btw -- in Spain, etc.). Combine this with the rise of the state of Israel as a power, and the decline of Palestinians and other Arab nations -- due to Israel's military might (as a result of Western support) and lack of concern for the Arab/Musilim inhabitants of the region perspectives and you have many, who are mostly very poor, who see themselves fighting a just war against anyone who condones (passively, or actively) a state that seems so wrong. Add on the religious and cultural problems and you are going to have large numbers of people who will see what many Westerners will call "terrorism" a just war.

So, then is Hezbollah absoultely evil? If they are, then is it really ONLY because the Lebonese govt. (and other Arab & Muslim nations i.e. Syria/Iran) "won't stop the terrorists?" because they fear the political ramifications and may benefit politically from Israeli retrebution? It isn't only because there are those in the Arab & Muslim world media that distort "facts" either (which does happen). Surely our own media and propaganda machine does the same (hence why over 40% of the population thought Saddam was responsible for 9/11) when those with power find it convenient. Arabs and other Muslims are deeply tied to a conflict with the West and anger over colonialsim so they are naturally going to see Israel as "evil." I suggest you watch the film 'Battle of Algiers' and see how Algerian "terrorists"/revolutionaries in Algeria killed "innocent" French via bombings in cafes, etc., but did so because that was -- what they saw -- as the best way to achieve indepedence from the French, which they got.

I also think one is really reaching to suggest that to drop a bomb on hundreds of thousands of innocent people can be distinctly classified as "noble." Am I saying dropping the bomb was wrong? Not necessarily, but the candy coating of the U.S.'s role in history is clearly an example of our own propaganda machine at work (as can be illustrated in too many examples to list).

Basically, if you believe that the U.S. is good, and only does "bad when it only really has to" then it is only logical that one would see Hezbollah and other "terrorist" groups as "evil." Of course, history demonstrates that the U.S. does not act this way, nor has any other state in history really, but for a number of reasons many Americans happen to believe our government and others here in power are "good at heart." Again, I DO NOT CONDONE KILLING OF INNOCENT PEOPLE, but unless one is honestly willing to empathize with the so-called "terrorists" point of view and more importantly why they have support as well as look at our own government and power structures critically then it is quite difficult to see things outside of a black and white worldview, which makes The West generally "good" and Arab "terrorists" and their supporters generally "evil." This doesn't mean groups that kill civilians are acceptable but does mean that conflicts cannot be primarily resolved militarily. Economic, social and political issues must be addressed as well through dimplomatic means. Sadly, that does not seem to be the case now.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
O.T. War in the middle East...

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