Posted by martin:

Donnie Walsh of Indiana must have been on crack for taking talent over position 2 YEARS IN A ROW with Granger and Shawne Williams. Talent over need is something almost every good team uses, epecially when the talent far outweighs the position the person was drafted at. But that's certainly not to say that drafting need is a bad. But really, you say Marcus Williams is a PG who is behind a logjam at a position? Isn't Baulkman behind a logjam?

See...if Isiah took Shawne Williams over Marcus Williams, don't you think there would be some upset people here anyway? Why did Indiana pass on Marcus Williams with Tinsley always injured?

I don't think Balkman is in any kind of logjam. This team was desperate for someone who could play small forward, defend the position and mesh with the frontline of Curry and Frye. Balkman arguably can do that. This team has tried stockpiling talent and then try to work it out later and it hasn't worked. The Francis trade was all about stockpiling talent over addressing needs. Francis is clearly a blue chip talent, Briggs begged Isiah to get Francis, and that move was a certified disaster. Because of the logjam, because of the players attitude, because of the fact he ignored team cohesion and roster balance.

Now he goes out and does the exact opposite in the draft - pays attention to team needs, tries to balance the roster, tries to compliment the other players on the team, gets two guys with great attitudes who will hustle all day and there's a problem? Are you guys kidding me? Which do you want? 8 borderline all-star PGs who we can't trade or a real team?


also, if Marcus came here, he would not have any trade value. Jermaine O'neal had very little trade value in Portland, despite playing there for four years. Marcus wouldn't have trade value for years, if that. It would have been a colossal waste. people comparing this to passing on Jordan need to step back and take a deep breath, because this is not the same.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-30-2006 1:16 PM]

Posted by martin:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by oohah:

Even if Williams is the best player available, which I believe is highly debateable, haven't so many pointed out that Isiah should not amass so much talent, but instead players who fit? And the minute he does that, he's decried.

No, instead we should take a redundant player, with a poorer personal history than anyone on this team with the possible exception of Q2.

oohah

This point seems to have been totally missed. We should have drafted for talent because ? Didn't we get Steve Francis for Penny and Trevor? We see hoew that worked out, but lets do it again with a player playing the same position as 4 other guys on the team, who has red flags all over him? Isn't this what guys were crying about.

One thing about the Brownites (because although this has nothing to do with LB, these are the same people) logic escapes them. Contradictions abound. The arguments they use to discredit Isiah for things he has done, is the exact same argument they use to discredit him for things he has not done.

Criticize him for getting too many pgs, and then criticize him for not drafting another pg.

Criticize him for not getting any defensive players than criticize him for drafting 2 defensive players.

Criticize him for making trades that improve team talent but make us lopsided and create logjams at positions and then criticize him for not making drafting a guy who would have increased the talent but would have added to the logjam at a position.

Criticize Isiah!! Must be a Brownite! Even though he has nothing to do with anything! Good one.

Portland GM is still kicking himself for having taken position/need over duplicated talent with Sam Bowie when he had Clyde the Glide sitting on his roster. Donnie Walsh of Indiana must have been on crack for taking talent over position 2 YEARS IN A ROW with Granger and Shawne Williams. Talent over need is something almost every good team uses, epecially when the talent far outweighs the position the person was drafted at. But that's certainly not to say that drafting need is a bad. But really, you say Marcus Williams is a PG who is behind a logjam at a position? Isn't Baulkman behind a logjam?

Yeah Martin, its MJ and Sam Bowie all over again.

Shawne Williams wasn't expected to go that high, and Marcus williams was expected to go higher, yet Bird who has a gaping hole at pg, and 2-3 players at the 3, chose a 3 anyway instead of Marcus Williams. Care to interpret that for me?

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by martin:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by oohah:

Even if Williams is the best player available, which I believe is highly debateable, haven't so many pointed out that Isiah should not amass so much talent, but instead players who fit? And the minute he does that, he's decried.

No, instead we should take a redundant player, with a poorer personal history than anyone on this team with the possible exception of Q2.

oohah

This point seems to have been totally missed. We should have drafted for talent because ? Didn't we get Steve Francis for Penny and Trevor? We see hoew that worked out, but lets do it again with a player playing the same position as 4 other guys on the team, who has red flags all over him? Isn't this what guys were crying about.

One thing about the Brownites (because although this has nothing to do with LB, these are the same people) logic escapes them. Contradictions abound. The arguments they use to discredit Isiah for things he has done, is the exact same argument they use to discredit him for things he has not done.

Criticize him for getting too many pgs, and then criticize him for not drafting another pg.

Criticize him for not getting any defensive players than criticize him for drafting 2 defensive players.

Criticize him for making trades that improve team talent but make us lopsided and create logjams at positions and then criticize him for not making drafting a guy who would have increased the talent but would have added to the logjam at a position.

Criticize Isiah!! Must be a Brownite! Even though he has nothing to do with anything! Good one.

Portland GM is still kicking himself for having taken position/need over duplicated talent with Sam Bowie when he had Clyde the Glide sitting on his roster. Donnie Walsh of Indiana must have been on crack for taking talent over position 2 YEARS IN A ROW with Granger and Shawne Williams. Talent over need is something almost every good team uses, epecially when the talent far outweighs the position the person was drafted at. But that's certainly not to say that drafting need is a bad. But really, you say Marcus Williams is a PG who is behind a logjam at a position? Isn't Baulkman behind a logjam?

Yeah Martin, its MJ and Sam Bowie all over again.

Shawne Williams wasn't expected to go that high, and Marcus williams was expected to go higher, yet Bird who has a gaping hole at pg, and 2-3 players at the 3, chose a 3 anyway instead of Marcus Williams. Care to interpret that for me?

bird's plan is to replace peja. he said he's going to play both shawne and granger together and develop shawne into a 4.

a trade is going to go down with bird acquiring a backcourt player.

Posted by djsunyc:

bird's plan is to replace peja. he said he's going to play both shawne and granger together and develop shawne into a 4.

a trade is going to go down with bird acquiring a backcourt player.

Posted by BRIGGS:

"He fell to us; we are ecstatic," Ed Stefanski, the Nets' general manager, said at the team's practice facility. "We had him ranked as the best point guard, by far, in the draft."

With the pick, the Nets may finally have a bona fide backup for Jason Kidd. It may be the one asset the Nets have valued as much as an elite big man.

"We've been looking for five years to try to help J out," said Stefanski, adding that he had the 6-foot-3 Williams ranked as the 12th best player in the draft.

"We feel this is a young kid who can come in and learn under a future Hall of Famer and really help our cause



Thats the way the draft worked out--the big guys went first. The Nets are saying they had Williams ranked #12 and the best PG BY FAR. Unlike the Knicks, the Nets are run by people with some credibilty--they are not saying they made a pick based on a fabricated story that another team was taking their pick. isiah couldve simply said, this is our pick this is where we had him rated--he had to make a BS story. Anyway, IMHO, the Nets management trumps the knicks by MILES. Even if the knicks didnt want Williams , they couldve easily picked him and held him to trade while picking balkman at 29. its like everything we do--we make excuses and were not savvy in negotiating. Its not that we traded Ed Curry for ty thomas Tim Thomas Sweetney and who else--its that that 2 pick shouldnt have been part of the equation.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by fishmike:

who disputed Shawne Williams = first round talent? Every mock I saw had him in the 20s and only that because of some suspect work habits, not talent. draftexpress had us taking him at 20

I'm not saying anyone disputed it. I liked him. He filled a need. But if the Knicks had taken Shawne Williams over Marcus Williams, there would have been the same belly aching, despite the fact that Shawne filled the teams needs better than Marcus. People were already complaining that Shawne wasn't a good pick for us from the mocks, I suspect Indiana taking him makes him a more better prospect in many people's minds than if Zeke had taken him.