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BlueSeats
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6/3/2006  12:44 AM
"Nah, I'm not accepting that," Marbury said. "I don't think Isiah thinks that way. I think he [looks at it] as we pretty much have to play with what [we] have and then just add as opposed to trying to rebuild and go young to get good again."
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nyk4ever
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6/3/2006  1:50 AM
Blue, great post with the results of the survey, myself and Fish have been harping on that survey for awhile now. That survey is really the only opinion that matters in all this arguing, becuase that survey is done by Exec's around the league and their opinions matter the most, not Peter Vecseys, not Marc Bermans, not anyone elses.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
newyorknewyork
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6/3/2006  7:03 AM
Thats after he won the NBA championship. His stock was kind of high at that time. If they made that poll today Id bet it would be different. Not that im dissagreeing with you just putting it in perspective.

I don't think Brown cares about the age as much as he cares about how much that player plays "the right way".

Curry & Frye don't really play the way he envisions his bigs. He would probably be cool with one of them. But I doubt he would want both of them as his frontcourt. He would like 2 defensive bangers who rebound bigtime and patrol the paint around one of them.`
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misterearl
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6/3/2006  9:23 AM
Things Change

>>But Dumars also believes Brown is the right coach to nurture young players such as Prince, Hamilton, Okur and rookie Darko Milicic.

Did he really say Darko?

Okur?

NOW, Let's Go To The 2006 Survey

6. Who is the best interview in the middle of traffic?
Larry Brown 53%
Jeff Van Gundy 4%
Rick Carlisle 1%
Pat Riley .5%

7. Who is the best head coach in the NBA?
Avery Johnson 43%
Pat Riley 22%
Mike D'Antoni 19%
Phil Jackson 19%
Larry Brown 5%
Rick Adelman .5%

8. If you could have a do-over in the 2005 draft who would be lottery?
Channing Frye 54%
Andrew Bogut 21%
Jackie Butler 30%
David Lee 3%

9. Best topping on pizza
Pepperoni 55%
Sausage 24%
Green Pepper and mushrooms 22%
Anchovies 2%
Pineapple .7%


once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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6/3/2006  9:24 AM
10. Who Would You Rather Have?

Darko Milicic 20%
Channing Frye 80%
once a knick always a knick
McK1
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6/3/2006  9:29 AM
Darko >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Frye
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
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6/3/2006  9:39 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Thats after he won the NBA championship. His stock was kind of high at that time. If they made that poll today Id bet it would be different. Not that im dissagreeing with you just putting it in perspective.

I don't think Brown cares about the age as much as he cares about how much that player plays "the right way".

Curry & Frye don't really play the way he envisions his bigs. He would probably be cool with one of them. But I doubt he would want both of them as his frontcourt. He would like 2 defensive bangers who rebound bigtime and patrol the paint around one of them.`

agree with you.

I think Brown may be an advocate of testing the market for both of them. Watching 6' 8 225 lb Granger push Frye around in Indy could not have left a good impression.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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6/3/2006  9:44 AM
Holfresh.. great post which does nothing to answer my question, but thank you for clarifying how Brown is ruining the Knicks as we are aquiring players on his behalf that havent gotten here yet and probably wont. Ratliff and KMart? Thats your retort? Good to know your talking out your bum, thanks.

The truth (this is hard for some of you guys) is the GM makes all the moves regardless of the coach. Just ask Lenny who asked that Isiah did NOT trade KVH and Doleac as he thought he had them playing very well in his system, and of course Isiah did anyway.

I know it pains you so but Isiah has built this team, every player on it from QWoods to Frye to Francis to Jerome JAmes.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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6/3/2006  10:20 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by misterearl:

BlueSeats - NBA GMs voted LB "best" at devloing youth? What year was that?

2003. Just before he started a 23 yr old Prince on a run to the Championship.

The Pistons are an NBA anomaly in many ways. Yes, they are two-time defending Central Division champions. Yes, they were one series away from the NBA Finals a year ago, but this also is a team in the early stages of its development. The Pistons were 32-50 just three years ago. Technically, this is the third year of Dumars' rebuilding plan. The two 50-win seasons were, in the end, pleasant surprises.

So, yes, Brown was hired because Dumars believed he was the guy to take Detroit to the championship level. But Dumars also believes Brown is the right coach to nurture young players such as Prince, Hamilton, Okur and rookie Darko Milicic.

"The reason we came here was the respect we had for what's been done here and for what the future holds," Brown says. "We have a lot of great young kids, and I like to think I can make a difference in terms of teaching them how to play and the right way to play.

"(Pistons owner Bill Davidson) said it best: 'We want to be successful every year for a long time, and every year come playoff time, we want to have an honest chance to win a championship" That's how I am going to approach it."

Same coach, same approach, different venue. And considering Brown has won more than 60 percent of his games as a coach, maybe that's not such a bad thing.
Brown delivers

Ten NBA teams hired a new head coach this offseason. Of those 10, the
Pistons had the best record last season at 50-32, making Detroit the
choice job when Larry BroWn was looking for employment. But did the
team make the right choice with him? A recent poll of NBA general
managers suggets it Did.

1. Which head coach is the best at developing young players?
Larry Brown 24%
Eric Musselman 14%
Jeff Bzdelik 10%
Paul Silas 10%

2. Which head coach is the best manager/motivator of people?
Phil Jackson 41%
Pat Riley 21%
Larry Brown 19%

3. Who is the best X's and O's coach?
Larry Brown 33%
Jeff Van Gundy 14%
Rick Carlisle 10%
Pat Riley 10%

4. Who is the best head coach in the NBA?
Larry Brown 43%
Gregg Popovich 19%
Phil Jackson 19%




[Edited by - BlueSeats on 06-02-2006 11:45 PM]



I have always said Larry is a great coach, but it's funny that three years removed from that GM poll the man has been fired from two jobs...I guess GM polls don't entirely paint the whole picture...
holfresh
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6/3/2006  10:29 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Holfresh.. great post which does nothing to answer my question, but thank you for clarifying how Brown is ruining the Knicks as we are aquiring players on his behalf that havent gotten here yet and probably wont. Ratliff and KMart? Thats your retort? Good to know your talking out your bum, thanks.

The truth (this is hard for some of you guys) is the GM makes all the moves regardless of the coach. Just ask Lenny who asked that Isiah did NOT trade KVH and Doleac as he thought he had them playing very well in his system, and of course Isiah did anyway.

I know it pains you so but Isiah has built this team, every player on it from QWoods to Frye to Francis to Jerome JAmes.



Which is true fish, the onus is always on the GM...Larry has been raging about getting these guys here for months and if you think that Larry stands idly by and let him GM do the work, I'll refer you to a thread DJ dug up when Isiah was in the process of hiring Larry...

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=16213

Enjoy
misterearl
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6/3/2006  10:41 AM
Road Rage

McK1 - did I read correctly that you prefer Darko OVER Channing Frye?

okayfine

>>One young player who felt Brown's wrath was Darko Milicic, the player taken after LeBron James and three picks before Dwyane Wade in the 2003 NBA Draft. Brown's decision not to work Milicic into the rotation is one reason why Brown and Pistons president Joe Dumars had a falling out.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=16213

Great Linkage to history



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McK1
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6/3/2006  11:16 AM
we all know Brown isn't perfect and Detroit's frontcourt personnel isn't the better of it.

he may not have played Darko but I believe Flip would've found substantial use for a guy like Mehmet in his offense.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
BlueSeats
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6/3/2006  12:25 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Thats after he won the NBA championship. His stock was kind of high at that time. If they made that poll today Id bet it would be different. Not that im dissagreeing with you just putting it in perspective.

No, it was 2003, BEFORE coaching the Pistons to two finals and a championship.
BlueSeats
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6/3/2006  12:39 PM
Can we just keep in mind that Detroit traded Darko AFTER Larry left.

Darko may or may not have a lot of potential, but as the youngest guy in the NBA he was not better than Sheed, Ben, Okur or Dyess. Were the Pistons in the gutter things might have been different but they were chasing championships at the time.

Boy, we should have their problems, to have to work in high draft picks like Prince and the 18 yr old Darko at the same time we're chasing championships and trying to build a dynasty. Poor Detroit got "Browned" and had to win that damned championship with a 23 yr old Prince starting when they reallyshould have been playing Darko over Ben and Sheed. But because Darko was behind guys like Ben, Sheed, Okur and Dyess it means Larry is a monster. It means Larry would have traded Prince for Eric Snow.

Still waiting to find out what significant youth Larry has EVER traded. Guys been in the league forever, been on a zillion teams, has a reputation for hating kids and trading them for broken kneed, over the hill veterans, so where's the list? There must be dozens, right? Can someone give me two or three? How about ONE?
Pharzeone
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6/3/2006  12:47 PM
Brown's history says that his teams get worst after they peak under him. For example the Pacers.

In 1993-94, Brown joined an Indiana Pacers team that was bound to improve after coming off a mediocre season. This team's roster included Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Dale Davis, Byron Scott and a rookie named Antonio Davis. Needless to say, it posted a respectable 45-37 record, picked up a sixth seed in the playoffs and almost made the championship game (they lost to the Knicks in seven games in the Eastern Conference Finals).

In 1994-95, the Pacers returned its best players and won 52 games, reaching Game Seven of the Eastern Conference Finals before bowing out to the Shaquille O'Neal-led Orlando Magic.

In 1995-96, Brown and the Pacers went 52-30 again, but lost in the first round of the playoffs. This was a step backwards.

In 1996-97, the Pacers disappointed and finished 39-43, failing to make the playoffs. It appeared that Brown's coaching methods had failed to reach his players. It was time for a change and Brown departed while hometown hero Larry Bird took on his first coaching gig. Interestingly enough, the Pacers improved under Bird. Let's look:

In 1997-98, the Pacers tied its second best performance in franchise history by posting a 58-win season. This marked a near 20-win improvement from the previous season. Furthermore, the team reached Game Seven of the Eastern Conference Finals only to lose valiantly -- not one game in series was decided by more than six points; last game finished 88-83 -- to the Chicago Bulls. In his first season, with all of its starters back from the previous year, Bird and the Pacers perhaps came closest to denting the Bulls' final title run.
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BlueSeats
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6/3/2006  1:35 PM
• 1993: The Pacers were stuck in neutral, having won 40 to 42 games and losing in the first round of the playoffs for four straight seasons. Walsh fired coach Bob Hill and brought in Larry Brown, who sought one major trade: Detlef Schrempf (30) to Seattle for Derrick McKey (26). The Pacers, who had not won an NBA playoff series to that point, reached the Eastern Conference finals in 1994 and '95.

That was his one major trade and it made them 4 years younger and brought them to the conference finals twice.
misterearl
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6/3/2006  4:58 PM
Pharzeone - great research

Larry Brown is the Billy Martin of basketball

No malice intended. I'm jus' sayin'

Does the consideration of Mark Aguirre as a potential head coach pose a problem because of the loyalty and good-soldioering of Herb Williams?

or does it matter?

mcK1 - you think Darko is a better basketball player than Channing Frye?

(cough) REALLY?

C'mon dude...

really?

c'mon....

dude...

c'mon....
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McK1
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6/3/2006  5:14 PM
YES Darko is a better basketball player than Channing ****ing Frye

get over it

he is a better defender, shotblocker, ball-handler, passer, floor runner, rebounder

Frye is a better outside shooter

you like Frye & jizz over the fact his grandpappy was a Tuskegge airmen thats all well and good.

That has nothing to do with basketball skill and what each player can do on the court. When it comes down to it, Darko can do much more on the court than Channing.




[Edited by - McK1 on 06-03-2006 5:16 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
misterearl
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6/3/2006  6:43 PM
>>When it comes down to it, Darko can do much more on the court than Channing.

McK1 - its only your opinion dude.

No need for the disparaing comments about Frye or his family. But, as usual,, when someone poses an opinion you don't agree with... the best you can do is make it personally insulting.

Sad.

once a knick always a knick
McK1
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6/3/2006  6:51 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>When it comes down to it, Darko can do much more on the court than Channing.

McK1 - its only your opinion dude.

No need for the disparaing comments about Frye or his family. But, as usual,, when someone poses an opinion you don't agree with... the best you can do is make it personally insulting.

Sad.

what the hell are you talking about? how exactly did I disparage Frye or his family? the term "grandpappy" is dispariging. Get a grip dude.

anyways the things Darko can do on the court are not my opinion, they are fact. Seeing is believing and Darko shoed he is a 5-cat player over the second half of the season in Orlando
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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