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Larry Brown -- Dead Man Walking
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rojasmas
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5/31/2006  8:12 PM
High school athletics aren't about winning. Or they shouldn't be. They are about kids and camraderie. Unfortunately, too many coaches and parents make them about winning and showing off. So spare me the high school harry histrionics, this is a Knicks website. No comparison. I pity poor kids who have to put up with the high school Knute Rocknes and Red Aurbachs wannabees. So many kids leave high school with a bad taste in their mouth because of their high school coach. Not because they lost, but because of the win at all costs mentality. In the pros you are supposed to win. In high school, you are supposed to have fun.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
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Bonn1997
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5/31/2006  8:15 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Bippity10:

Bonn do you think that much changed about LB since he left Detroit or has he always been a bast-ard?
What do I think? Neither. I think toward the end of his stay at Detroit, whatever personality problems he always had began to intensify and have not stopped intensifying. I bet anyone in the Detroit or Knicks' ogranization would agree.

What does that have to do with the team quitting?
? I've said many times I want to fire everyone including most of the team and all of the executives! I don't understand the rest of your post either. I never supported one player on any team. Your thinking in both the Knicks and Detroit exampes seems to be that EITHER the coach OR the players are wrong. But they are in fact two separate issues. One party being wrong (e.g., the players) does not preclude another (e.g., the coach, the GM, the owner) from being wrong.


[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 05-31-2006 8:23 PM]
CrushAlot
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5/31/2006  10:39 PM
Dolan is waiting for another team to recognize what a prize he has in Brown just like he is waiting for a team to want Marbury or Francis. Unfortunately no one else is interested. Dolan is not ready to ante up all of Larry's contract money for nothing. Isiah had better hope that he doesn't f'up again prior to another team expressing interest in Brown because the media and fans will force Dolan to fire him.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
holfresh
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5/31/2006  11:15 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Bippity10:

Bonn do you think that much changed about LB since he left Detroit or has he always been a bast-ard? The only difference is our wonderful media. LB should have adjusted and so should our players.

I don’t know who the hell his father is, but Brown has always had a strong reputation as having 'wanderlust'. To me that’s just a euphemism. The parallels between his behavior and T.O are striking, yet T.O is a sports pariah. Brown has ostracized players everywhere he has gone and has never missed an opportunity to bail on a team when he thinks there might be a few shiny nickels in it for him. Detroit players were thrilled to see him go.

He’s a great coach. I wont deny that. However, he was handed a talented, albeit flawed roster and because everything didn’t go his way and because he was met with resistance from some players his recourse was to whine to anyone who would listen. Instead of digging in his heels and showing leadership, he threw his players and his G.M under the bus when pretty much everybody was in agreement that this was at worst a borderline playoff team heading into the season. This guy never met a challenging b-ball situation he wasn’t ready to run away from.

The lack of accountability directed his way has been almost frightening. Once again its another “poor L.B saga” and not a 'how the hell did this coach only produce 23 wins' story. I guess 40 mil doesn’t buy a lot these days.


I couldn't agree with you more..Lots of posters here feel that this organization needs continuity, needs direction, needs accountability, needs leadership, etc and I do agree with that assessment..What they all fail to see is that Larry Brown has none of those traits...Larry Brown is the guy you call when you have your core players in place, you have a strong ownership and management staff...He is the guy you call when you are on the verge of being a good team and you need to get over the hump... He will test your organization, so you have to be strong internally..
He is not the guy you want in the Knicks' situation...He has been here for one year and has already worn out his welcome with management... Hell he has been fired most of the places he has worked and it's not because of his coaching skills..He readily admitted after being fired from San Antonio gig that he should have been fired at other places as well...We need a young coach who understand todays players and who can adapt to today's game...Larry is a great coach but he brings too much drama to the table...He works better with veterans and we want to go young and build around the Frye's and Curry's of the world....Brown wants vets to win now and we as Knick fans don't need to go down that slippery slope once again...So let's cut our losses now and wish him luck in his future endevours and build from within with youth...Please, it's time to let go...

fishmike
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6/1/2006  7:37 AM
of all the places LArry has won (he's won everywhere) Detroit was the only place where the core of players was intact.

But your right about one thing.. you do need strong management anytime you have a coach with clout, so they should have just kept Herb, appeased the babies players and won their 33 games.

[Edited by - fishmike on 06-01-2006 07:37 AM]
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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6/1/2006  9:02 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by Bippity10:

Bonn do you think that much changed about LB since he left Detroit or has he always been a bast-ard? The only difference is our wonderful media. LB should have adjusted and so should our players.

I don’t know who the hell his father is, but Brown has always had a strong reputation as having 'wanderlust'. To me that’s just a euphemism. The parallels between his behavior and T.O are striking, yet T.O is a sports pariah. Brown has ostracized players everywhere he has gone and has never missed an opportunity to bail on a team when he thinks there might be a few shiny nickels in it for him. Detroit players were thrilled to see him go.

He’s a great coach. I wont deny that. However, he was handed a talented, albeit flawed roster and because everything didn’t go his way and because he was met with resistance from some players his recourse was to whine to anyone who would listen. Instead of digging in his heels and showing leadership, he threw his players and his G.M under the bus when pretty much everybody was in agreement that this was at worst a borderline playoff team heading into the season. This guy never met a challenging b-ball situation he wasn’t ready to run away from.

The lack of accountability directed his way has been almost frightening. Once again its another “poor L.B saga” and not a 'how the hell did this coach only produce 23 wins' story. I guess 40 mil doesn’t buy a lot these days.


I couldn't agree with you more..Lots of posters here feel that this organization needs continuity, needs direction, needs accountability, needs leadership, etc and I do agree with that assessment..What they all fail to see is that Larry Brown has none of those traits...Larry Brown is the guy you call when you have your core players in place, you have a strong ownership and management staff...He is the guy you call when you are on the verge of being a good team and you need to get over the hump... He will test your organization, so you have to be strong internally..
He is not the guy you want in the Knicks' situation...He has been here for one year and has already worn out his welcome with management... Hell he has been fired most of the places he has worked and it's not because of his coaching skills..He readily admitted after being fired from San Antonio gig that he should have been fired at other places as well...We need a young coach who understand todays players and who can adapt to today's game...Larry is a great coach but he brings too much drama to the table...He works better with veterans and we want to go young and build around the Frye's and Curry's of the world....Brown wants vets to win now and we as Knick fans don't need to go down that slippery slope once again...So let's cut our losses now and wish him luck in his future endevours and build from within with youth...Please, it's time to let go...



He does not do better with "veterans". They tune him out. The younger players listen and marvel how much they learn. The old guys got the contract and marvel what a pain in the ass he is.

A young coach might not get starburys respect. And away we go.............
Bippity10
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6/1/2006  9:20 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

High school athletics aren't about winning. Or they shouldn't be. They are about kids and camraderie. Unfortunately, too many coaches and parents make them about winning and showing off. So spare me the high school harry histrionics, this is a Knicks website. No comparison. I pity poor kids who have to put up with the high school Knute Rocknes and Red Aurbachs wannabees. So many kids leave high school with a bad taste in their mouth because of their high school coach. Not because they lost, but because of the win at all costs mentality. In the pros you are supposed to win. In high school, you are supposed to have fun.


Did you read my post or did you just respond. I'm not about winning. I coach to teach kids how to play together as a team and to have higher standards for themselves. It's just amazing how winning always seems to accompany this. Lastly you sell high school kids short. Sports is a competive environment. Many have forgotten this. Kids play because they enjoy the competition along with the friendships they build. It's the parents who fear their kids losing who want the competition taken out of it. It's these kids that are sheltered from the concept of winning and losing that have low self-esteem when real life takes affect and winning and losing is there whether you like it or not. But if coach's teach kids the "right way" to play and what you are playing for, they can come out and lose every game(trust me this has happened to me before) and still come out excited, happy, with a sense of accomplishment.

Bottom line: if you do whatever it takes and give it your all to win, but instead you lose there is a certain amoutn of pride associated with the sacrifice and discipline in giving your all. When you pretend the purpose of the game(winning) does not exist and you don't raise your standards and then lose you often times feel an element of shame because you know in your heart you did not give your all. I have yet to have a kid spend more than a year with me and not come back and thank me. Parents too. The outsiders that hate disciplinrians seem to be the only one's that have a problem with it.

Lastly. I tell of my high school coaching not to preach but to give an idea of what shapes my opinion. I clearly made a side note so that if anyone is offended by it they did not have to read it. You clearly were offended by this. So why did you read it?
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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6/1/2006  9:21 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Sorta sounds like the plot to "Hoosiers".

As a matter of fact I stole ideas from the movie. I also stole ideas from my father, former disciplinarian coach's that I played for and books that I read by other coach's who have similar opinions as mine. And amazingly these kids(all starved for discipline) eat it up. It's the parents who won't discipline their kids that are intimidated by people that will.

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 06-01-2006 09:24 AM]
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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6/1/2006  9:42 AM
My practices are open to every parent of every child. I challenge them to watch my practices and point out anything they don't agree with. I challenge them to find a moment when I am unfair to their children. I have simple rules of conduct. The kids that follow them get no grief. Those that don't, get berated until they are back in line. If they don't like being told what to do they can play somewhere else, I will not hate them. But I treat everyone fairly. If you box out consistently you are my boy. If you don't, you run. If you get back on D you are my favorite. If you are lazy and let your teammates down by not getting back for them I will yell at you. Nothing out of line. Yet there are so many people that are afraid of someone actually asking their kids or any kid/person anywhere to do what is expected of them. It amazes me.
I just hope that people will like me
Larry Brown -- Dead Man Walking

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