Riles would make him play defense. Riles has as much cred in the league as Larry. Larry was voted by players very high? Higher than Riles.

Both are winners.

IF Marbs was doing what Larry wanted, why would any coach complain? During the winnin stretch Larry was high in praise of steph.

I also don't think Larry expect steph to be all world defensive. His comments were more in response to Stephs wanting more freedom for the team to do its thing. Larry won't let them off the leash unil the transitional defense is tighter.

"keeping it real" is ok for the prima donna player who wants to "keep it real for them". I posted elsewhere its a matter of trust. Steph keeps it honest, but its an "in your face bring it on" kind of thing. I could understand if Him and larry did not see it as there is a difference in age and maybe ethnic background, but his team certainly is right there with him and does not take to it.

I think there is a lot being blown out of proportion with most of the arguments here. Most are not out for blood, most would rather just see marbs be the leader that comes with being a captain,and be outspoken. Thats fine. If he does not want the leadership role as you proclaim, thats cool too but then if your not a general, you must be a soldier and do what your told. That seems to be Stephs dilemma. Its tough to back down, but also can't handle defering the starring role to anyone either. He has got to choose his role. Talent alone can get you so far, and super wealthy, but aco****ability is part of the job too.

Posted by holfresh:

Why should we look at the guy as a leader, why are we putting this mantle on him, he doesn't want it... He is not the answer, he is not the guy you build a team around

& that's all alot of us are saying... we want a guy who's a leader to play PG on this team... Marbury isn't a good fit... no one's ragging on his basketball skills... everyone knows he's a prolific scoring G, just not one that plays well in the type of system LB's trying to implement... therefore, he needs to go & we need to find a PG who DOES work well in LB's system & will make everyone around him better by playing good defense & being a leader on the floor.

he is a piece of the puzzle...

what puzzle is he a piece to in your estimation? a championship puzzle? i just don't see it... isn't that what we're aiming for afterall? a championship? or are you just concerned with watching a guy put up 20 & 8 while playing highly inconsistent defense, have teammates dislike playing w/him, & struggle to finish w/a .500 record year in & year out? i certainly won't be happy w/that, & i think i can fairly speak for plenty of others on this board that feel the same way.

I think people are trying to make him something he is not and because he doesn't live up to certain people's expectation they want to get rid of him...

seems to me that you agree w/alot of what we've been saying about Marbury & yet can't understand why we want to get rid of him... that's the puzzling part.

Posted by rvhoss:

I agree. I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme to account for our lack of front court quickness and defensive skills.

Maybe box and 1, 2x3 zone, something different than watching our point guards get killed.

i'd like to hear Bip or someone else who has coaching experience comment on this one... i have a hard time believing that any coach can devise a foolproof scheme to compensate for poor perimeter defense when he has no shotblockers on the roster.

Posted by rvhoss:

If Larry wasn't so busy trying to make marbs look bad, he'd know we have a pretty good point guard in steph. One that before his exclamation of being the best point guard in the league, was in fact top 3 at the time, if not the best.

Since then, it's been all down hill...could it be his knee, age, coaching, whatever, I do know, he isn't as bad as he was this year playing the "larry brown way".

he goes back to starbury, we win a handful more games, he has better stats and we go back to him being top 5 in the league.

But to suddenly say chris paul after one year in the league, tony parker who really doesn't do much more than marbs does (if marbs is give the same responsibility AND tim duncan) and the others you listed is pretty stupid IMHO.

sorry, I'm just not as short sighted and history ignoring as some of you.

I realize it's a reactionary post, but it's time to start admitting you just hate marbury as a person.

As a player, he's pretty awesome when given the chance to play to his strengths, which is drive and score until the defense adjusts and then drive and dish.

give him duncan, my oh my.

trust me, I'm not making this up, it's just how it is.

I'm glad you are such a fan of individual achievement. thats going to get Steph far.

Others demand that he subjugate some of his trust in his individual worth to join 4 other guys on the court the 7 on the bench and for the first time in Larry's 30 year career "one coach for every player" (Isiah gets it from Larry too) and do the things necessary to win ball games.

It wouldn't matter if duncan was his teammate, spurs win with execution on offense D and hustle. Tony Parker runs the O dqamn near flawlessly. Tony Parker keeps his hands up and his feet moving. Tony Parker HUSTLES. loose balls you see Tony; long rebounds you see Tony; a hand in the passing lane; a hard double on a big. Tony does all the things key to winning. And he did it as much under the gun as steph has been. Pop is a SOB as well and he rode Tony hard his first 3 years. Plus unlike these Knicks, the sports country expected BIG things out of the Spurs.

Marbury is part of a TEAM not an island unto himself. What makes him better than all others who have made it to this level. Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Parker none may have his individual scoring talent but all are better QB's and get the national accolades because they play in the trenches and do things to earn their teammates trust and respect. They get

the floorburns (Steph has none)

dive for the looseballs (when is the last time you seen Steph going into the stands)

help their big men out on the boards (rarely see Steph below the foul line)

set screens for others (Steph'll call 40 screens and not go and set ne'er 1 for someone else)

rotate into the paint defensively (rarely see Steph below the foul line)

Posted by djsunyc:

we can completely discard everything ever reported in the media. that's cool.

still doesn't change the fact that steph was traded many times over his career. but the most important one was from a suns team, at that time, the darlings of the nba and the "future" of the nba...fresh off giving him a max extension.

so forget everything else, he was traded from a suns team for "junk" with no knowledge whatsoever that they were going to end up with nash, kobe, or manu. they just gambled by trading away their point guard, the guy that helped them push the spurs the year before.

that's all we need to know.

kvh, tim thomas, glenn robinson...all guys traded many times. there's a reason these guys are always moved.

you trade FOR them expecting something...but ultimately they don't give you what you want so you move them along.

and this has NOTHING to do with anything reported or in the media.

lb has clashed with many players, especially his primary ball handlers, but every single one of them, to this day pretty much say that he's made them a better player. billups said it. iverson cried on national tv. marbury is somewhere between those two talent wise. maybe one day it will be him on tv crying about how lb made him a better player. but that door is closing pretty quickly.

and personally...thats what I want to see.

During Browns pit stop in Philly, there was PLENTY of trade rumors involving Iverson. A couple of them having him come to the knicks as a matter of fact.

but Philly front office didn't budge on that...basically forcing Brown and Iverson to work through their differences...and at the end, I think, it worked out pretty well for both of them. I want Knicks management to handle this the same way.

love him or hate...Marbury is the Knicks best player and one of the most talented in the league. and no matter what you guys think, with his contract, there is no way the Knicks are going to get equal value back.

Frye used to be a shot blocker...maybe he could be used like Zo is being used in Miami, just stand in the paint and block shots.

Oh, sorry, he has to rotate to the three point line to cover the jump shooter because the rotation says to do so.

I never see zo on the perimeter.

What are you, silly, you think every team in the league has a better defending point guard than marbs? Stop being wierd, there are far worst point guards on defense than marbs, heck, Riley currently has one in JWill.

You need bip to tell you that? How old are you again? Have you ever played organized ball and your point sucked on defense? have you ever played basketball in a video game against iverson? How do you think other teams guard iverson and Tony Parker?

Jeez...now you don't even know anything about playing defense...you just hate marbs.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by rvhoss:

I agree. I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme to account for our lack of front court quickness and defensive skills.

Maybe box and 1, 2x3 zone, something different than watching our point guards get killed.

i'd like to hear Bip or someone else who has coaching experience comment on this one... i have a hard time believing that any coach can devise a foolproof scheme to compensate for poor perimeter defense when he has no shotblockers on the roster.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 03-21-2006 5:01 PM]

Posted by rvhoss:

Frye used to be a shot blocker...maybe he could be used like Zo is being used in Miami, just stand in the paint and block shots.

Oh, sorry, he has to rotate to the three point line to cover the jump shooter because the rotation says to do so.

I never see zo on the perimeter.

What are you, silly, you think every team in the league has a better defending point guard than marbs? Stop being wierd, there are far worst point guards on defense than marbs, heck, Riley currently has one in JWill.

You need bip to tell you that? How old are you again? Have you ever played organized ball and your point sucked on defense? have you ever played basketball in a video game against iverson? How do you think other teams guard iverson and Tony Parker?

Jeez...now you don't even know anything about playing defense...you just hate marbs.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by rvhoss:

I agree. I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme to account for our lack of front court quickness and defensive skills.

Maybe box and 1, 2x3 zone, something different than watching our point guards get killed.

i'd like to hear Bip or someone else who has coaching experience comment on this one... i have a hard time believing that any coach can devise a foolproof scheme to compensate for poor perimeter defense when he has no shotblockers on the roster.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 03-21-2006 5:01 PM]

that's about as worthless a reply as you can find on these forums, & that's saying alot... i guess you feel the need to throw personal insults my way when i present a question to posters on this site who have real experience in coaching & not just in fantasy mode in NBA 2k6... but go ahead & expound on your apparent deep knowledge on the topic of how to organize an NBA defense for a team w/horrible perimeter defenders w/o a shotblocker... i'd love to hear it coach.

Frye was a shot blocker in college

so was Loren Woods. Players are bigger and faster in the NBA. Its not the same thing.

and jerome james was a shot blocker in seattle...

James was a tall hack who occasionally got a block. Shotbblockers don't have such a high foul rate.

they could be employed like Zo is being used in Miami.

Miami doesn't play zone either. Zo is who he is. Frye James are employed like Zo, they just lack the leg strength sight and agility to play the ball like Zo does.

Riley and George Karl played it before it was legal.

Posted by joec32033:

Must be selective memory. I am sure all this sniping back and forth is all part of Larry's plan with Marbs. Also, the part where Marbury keeps saying "I still don't know what I am supposed to do." is just a ploy so the other teams come in unprepared right?

One six game streak Marbs and Larry were actually on the same page....Marbs played his best basketball of the season in six games in freakin' January.

You saying he bought into it from the begining is a joke. We've all heard the clips and quotes where Marbury says he doesn't know what the hell Larry wants. Now we are doubting Marbury's own words.

Word to the wise...Buying into a system actually implies you know what to do in it and then you actually do it.

what do you mean by a "system" joe? please excuse my basketball ignorance... i only know what i know from video games... i don't actually watch the games or follow the NBA... thanks.

Why is this team unable to get as many wins?

lack of chemistry is a huge reason for that... which is why alot of us want to get rid of Marbury, because we feel he's undermining the head coach & being a detriment to team chemistry... is that such a difficult concept to understand?