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channing frye - untouchable
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misterearl
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1/11/2007  8:05 PM
>>No chance they cut Eddy's minutes. Part of this season has been showcasing Eddy Curry. The fans who are still watching are eating it up (based on this board). It's the only thing that's kept Isiah from being fired, I think.

Showcasing Edy for what? Oh, my bad, the next fantasy trade rumor...

Still, Isiah deserves no recognition for acquiring Eddy in the first place, or the decision to employ him as the focal point of the offense?

Curry's peceived value as opposed to David Lee's perceived value?

Help me out on determining the difference

What I find amusing is splitting the Knicks into individuals, rather than any appreciation for their coherance as a team.

"MY guy is better than YOUR guy because he has unlimited potential while your guy should be traded because he's due to hit an inevitable ceiling in a few years at 27 years old"

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misterearl
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1/11/2007  8:07 PM
Hold up, I almost forgot

Channing Frye is WAY better than David Lee.

That's why he starts
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holfresh
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1/11/2007  8:42 PM
I'm not sure how intuitive basketball skills are judged or how important it is for that matter...If this were a ballet forum or ice skating chat session I would think you guys all have a point...The guy has sound basketball skills where he dropped 17 and 8 against the lowly Sixers..Hit some key baskets against Detroit in a playoff atmosphere like game...He is a gamer no doubt about it but he may not be a great dancer...I'm more worried about the former right now...He has shown to be more skills than some who are considered better athletes, which should be important...No one would confuse Larry Bird with beinf a great athlete, yet besides Jordan, he was the most fun player to watch because of his skills and how he played the game...Frye is a keeper, no if or ands about it....





[Edited by - holfresh on 01-11-2007 8:52 PM]
oohah
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1/11/2007  8:50 PM
Frye has intuitive scoring skills.

David Lee has intuitive rebounding skills.

Curry has intuitive dunking skills.

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
babyKnicks
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1/11/2007  8:58 PM
Posted by fishmike:

thats not fair... I dont think people have soured on him. What I have maintained all offseason and into this season is that he's a center, and a poor fit next to Curry. Thats been completely true.

this is true.
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islesfan
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1/11/2007  9:13 PM
Gilbert Arenas has intuitive scoring skills.

Karl Malone had intuitive scoring skills.

Channing Frye can hit an open jumper from 15-18 feet about 45% of the time and only if he's wide open.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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1/11/2007  9:45 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by fishmike:

oohah, at what point does this become bad management?

How much evidence do we need to see before we decide to try something different? You tell me.... We are looking at what? 80-100 NBA games?

I havent said the only option is to trade or dump him. Eddy is still fat and maybe cutting his minutes a bit gets him working harder on both ends of the floor. Play Eddy 30 and give Frye the other 18 minutes at center where he can be featured off the bench. That will help his growth much more than having him stand 18 feet from the basket where he doesnt rebound, doesnt have a chance to block shots and does nothing but launch long jumpers.

I would think a good coach would be able to see Frye clearly excels playing center and clearly struggles playing PF. The coach can either keep forcing the issue because of "never ever" or he can put guys in a position to suceed where they have proven they can do so.

What would you rather see?

No chance they cut Eddy's minutes. Part of this season has been showcasing Eddy Curry. The fans who are still watching are eating it up (based on this board). It's the only thing that's kept Isiah from being fired, I think. While it makes logical sense, we're driving up Curry's perceived value, making him out to be Shaq-lite or Ewing-lite. That's what it's come to, and a lot of people are so desperate to see the Knicks succeed that they will buy into Curry being the new savior.

The reality is we don't have a savior, have no plan to acquire one and we probably have another two years of Isiah, because he has the Knicks playing 'just well enough', combined with Curry's progress, to not get fired.
I think thats a positive though. The only downside is Frye, but he's not going anywhere being in a rookie scale contract. His value for the next couple of seasons is insured.

As for Curry though I would hope we gauge his market value this offseason. Anyone that watches him play live knows his impact doesnt match his numbers. But his numbers *are* impressive and you cant teach size.

If Eddy matures enough to commit to basketball, stay in shape, work on his game good for us.
If Eddy has a great statistical season and the Knicks at least get close to .500 thats good for us also.

I would have no problem with trading Eddy for a bigtime prospect (prefferably a guard) and going with Frye/Lee up front.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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1/11/2007  10:10 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Gilbert Arenas has intuitive scoring skills.

Karl Malone had intuitive scoring skills.

Channing Frye can hit an open jumper from 15-18 feet about 45% of the time and only if he's wide open.

yeah, I like that description better.
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kam77
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1/11/2007  11:44 PM
45% of the time is 45% of the entire time, open or not. Don't add "if he's wide open" after quoting his shooting percentage - it makes no sense.

And by the way its 46% for the career not 45%, and 82% from the line.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
martin
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1/11/2007  11:50 PM
Posted by kam77:

45% of the time is 45% of the entire time, open or not. Don't add "if he's wide open" after quoting his shooting percentage - it makes no sense.

And by the way its 46% for the career not 45%, and 82% from the line.

well, here is a better picture of his shot selection:

Shot Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
Jump 75% .364 75% 4% 5.9
Close 20% .579 42% 7% 2.4
Dunk 2% 1.000 100% 0% 0.5
Tips 3% .500 0% 0% 0.3
Inside 25% .611 48% 6% 3.3
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tomverve
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1/12/2007  12:29 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Frye is a much better player than these #s show, but my good. Look at the position difference between center and pf.

If those numbers were accurate you'd have nothing to complain about, since they have Frye playing 37% of the team's center minutes and 2% of the team's PF minutes. The numbers there are wrong.
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Solace
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1/12/2007  9:06 AM
Posted by fishmike:

I think thats a positive though. The only downside is Frye, but he's not going anywhere being in a rookie scale contract. His value for the next couple of seasons is insured.

As for Curry though I would hope we gauge his market value this offseason. Anyone that watches him play live knows his impact doesnt match his numbers. But his numbers *are* impressive and you cant teach size.

If Eddy matures enough to commit to basketball, stay in shape, work on his game good for us.
If Eddy has a great statistical season and the Knicks at least get close to .500 thats good for us also.

I would have no problem with trading Eddy for a bigtime prospect (prefferably a guard) and going with Frye/Lee up front.

It wasn't necessarily a knock, just a reason. I don't think Eddy gets traded unless we're getting a stud bigman in the deal. Other teams fans are drooling over the idea of being able to trade for him (whether they'd feel that way after the trade is up for debate). But, considering I think we're committed to Eddy, and trading him could seriously hurt morale, I think Frye is the one who gets traded. I also think Eddy is more talented than Frye, so i'm not against Frye being traded. I think, honestly, they can't both be on the same team, because the defense between the two of them is among the league worst.
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Masterplan
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1/12/2007  9:39 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by kam77:

45% of the time is 45% of the entire time, open or not. Don't add "if he's wide open" after quoting his shooting percentage - it makes no sense.

And by the way its 46% for the career not 45%, and 82% from the line.

well, here is a better picture of his shot selection:

Shot Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
Jump 75% .364 75% 4% 5.9
Close 20% .579 42% 7% 2.4
Dunk 2% 1.000 100% 0% 0.5
Tips 3% .500 0% 0% 0.3
Inside 25% .611 48% 6% 3.3

cool. where'd you get that?
Masterplan
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1/12/2007  9:44 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Gilbert Arenas has intuitive scoring skills.

Karl Malone had intuitive scoring skills.

Channing Frye can hit an open jumper from 15-18 feet about 45% of the time and only if he's wide open.

yeah, I like that description better.

i disagree. i actually don't think i've seen him miss a pull-up jumper yet- that move where he takes a few dribbles stops and pops with his man on him. i also think if he just set up one small step (for a 6'11 dude) closer to the hoop his shooting % would go up a decent bit.
martin
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1/12/2007  10:17 AM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by kam77:

45% of the time is 45% of the entire time, open or not. Don't add "if he's wide open" after quoting his shooting percentage - it makes no sense.

And by the way its 46% for the career not 45%, and 82% from the line.

well, here is a better picture of his shot selection:

Shot Att. eFG% Ast'd Blk'd Pts
Jump 75% .364 75% 4% 5.9
Close 20% .579 42% 7% 2.4
Dunk 2% 1.000 100% 0% 0.5
Tips 3% .500 0% 0% 0.3
Inside 25% .611 48% 6% 3.3

cool. where'd you get that?

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tomverve
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1/12/2007  10:42 AM
i disagree. i actually don't think i've seen him miss a pull-up jumper yet- that move where he takes a few dribbles stops and pops with his man on him. i also think if he just set up one small step (for a 6'11 dude) closer to the hoop his shooting % would go up a decent bit.

Frye's numbers are down in part because of the unbelievably awful start to the season that he had. Last year his eFG% on jumpers was .417, which is actually pretty good for a player who doesn't shoot any 3s.
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oohah
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1/12/2007  12:30 PM
^^^Those shooting statistics prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Isiah is playing Frye on the perimeter.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TheGame
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1/12/2007  12:37 PM
Posted by Masterplan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Gilbert Arenas has intuitive scoring skills.

Karl Malone had intuitive scoring skills.

Channing Frye can hit an open jumper from 15-18 feet about 45% of the time and only if he's wide open.

yeah, I like that description better.

i disagree. i actually don't think i've seen him miss a pull-up jumper yet- that move where he takes a few dribbles stops and pops with his man on him. i also think if he just set up one small step (for a 6'11 dude) closer to the hoop his shooting % would go up a decent bit.

I really like that move. I have not seen too many 6'11" guys be able to take a few dribbles and do a pullup jumper like that with a hand in the face. If he can consistently hit that shot, he will be tough to stop. That is why I want us to be patient with Frye. In a couple of years, he could develop into a twenty point scorer. Maybe he still would not fit because of Curry, but we would get more for him than we can now in a trade.

[Edited by - TheGame on 01-12-2007 12:38 PM]
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channing frye - untouchable

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