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growing pains for ariza + james (article)
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fishmike
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1/7/2006  2:23 PM
Posted by oohah:
maybe oohah should coach the Knicks... we would have been winning all along

What's your problem fishmike? Just come out with it.

You've never questioned a coach before?

I am begining to wonder about a few guys around here with the LB hero worship. What is this with Larry Brown being beyond examination?

oohah
I question everything... youve been around long enough to know that. but I try to take it context. That means giving a HOF coach with a most impressive history of coaching more than 30 games before saying he's the reason for everything thats wrong.

I dont have any problems here. Your opinion is your opinion
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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TMS
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1/7/2006  2:41 PM
it's scary to think how much more pain Jerome James would be in if he grew anymore.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nykshaknbake
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1/7/2006  2:43 PM
Has any coach ever taken a team with NO talent and made them an amazing team?
Posted by oohah:
I know you didnt say it, I was going to give you an example but it depends on what you mean by turning around. cuase brown has made a ton of teams better, but if by turn around you mean he made them a lasting success than I guess he hasnt turned any team around.

He is like any coach: He needs talent to succeed. He can't make silk purse out of sow's ear. Historically he has done a good job of maximizing talent. Not true thus far with the Knicks.

Never in history has he taken a team with no talent and made them some kind of amazing team. The Knicks have decent talent, let's see if he catches on for good now. Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks.

oohah




[Edited by - oohah on 01-07-2006 02:05 AM]

oohah
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1/7/2006  3:04 PM
I question everything... youve been around long enough to know that. but I try to take it context. That means giving a HOF coach with a most impressive history of coaching more than 30 games before saying he's the reason for everything thats wrong.
I dont have any problems here. Your opinion is your opinion

I never said or implied in any way that LB is the reason that everything is wrong. I think 28 games at 7/21 is enough context to say that the game plan was not working and that maybe LB should change it up by playing his best players, and push the ball more. And apparently LB agrees with me, because that is what he is doing now.

What LB is doing now is 180 degrees different from what he was doing last week.

Ad, Rose, and half-court everytime on offense was a failed experiment.

Has any coach ever taken a team with NO talent and made them an amazing team?

No. Every coach needs players. That was my point exactly. LB needs players just like everyone else. Therefore, he is no franchise-saver. A coach can help a franchise, but only a player(s) can turn one around.

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Marv
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1/7/2006  3:34 PM
Posted by oohah:

I never said or implied in any way that LB is the reason that everything is wrong. I think 28 games at 7/21 is enough context to say that the game plan was not working and that maybe LB should change it up by playing his best players, and push the ball more. And apparently LB agrees with me, because that is what he is doing now.

What LB is doing now is 180 degrees different from what he was doing last week.

Ad, Rose, and half-court everytime on offense was a failed experiment.


Ah, to me this gets to the heart of the argument. You call it a failed experiment. I call it deliberate and experienced team management. I believe Larry knew exactly what he was doing and played people into this position. He needed what he got from Malik and AD early on. He needed to have his showdown with Marbs. He needed to change Craw, rein in Nate, work on Frye, adapt Lee's game, get Eddy together. You keep asking for proof of this. Can you prove it's not the case?



[Edited by - marv on 01-07-2006 3:35 PM]
oohah
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1/7/2006  8:55 PM
Ah, to me this gets to the heart of the argument. You call it a failed experiment. I call it deliberate and experienced team management. I believe Larry knew exactly what he was doing and played people into this position. He needed what he got from Malik and AD early on.

What did he get from Rose and AD? Really bad play? He purposefully ran the team into a 7/21 record?

He needed to have his showdown with Marbs.

You think the showdown with Marbury was all planned? That would mean LB played everything in a way to deliberately piss off Marbury up until Orlando game , then he decided to change it all up one game later. Seems like a stretch to me.

He needed to change Craw, rein in Nate, work on Frye, adapt Lee's game, get Eddy together.

Crawford has not been changed. He is playing somewhat better, but he is still having plenty of bad games with his good. But I like the handling of Crawford. He needed to be benched, and yanked WHEN HE PLAYED BAD, in order for him to discipline himself a little more. I think LB was right on that one.

rein in Nate

Nate could not ask for more opportunity or time. I have no problem with Nate's PT. And why does NR get to work out his kinks on the floor but Lee does not? By any reasonable estimation, Lee had less competition for PT because small forward has been the most glaring hole.

work on Frye

This is where things start getting fuzzy. Work on Frye? What kind of work are you describing? What is different about him? He has been the team's most consistent player, he deserves consistent time. I don't understand how screwing with Frye's time is helpful to him or the team, but I wish someone would explain it to me.

adapt Lee's game

What adaptation? Lee has been working on his shot, fine. I think he would have been working on his shot anyway, though that is purely speculation on my part. Do you really believe that LB just decided that Lee was finally "adapted" just last weekend? He was less valuable to the team on the floor than Rose or Ariza until the last 3 games, then just like that he is ready to start and play big minutes. That is astounding to me.

Even if that were true that he needed to do some work, does that mean he should be crossed out of the lineup until 3 games ago? Maybe that would make sense if any of the forwards ahead of him were performing but they weren't.

get Eddy together

The only difference I see in Curry is that he is playing now, whereas he was not before. When he has been able to play he has played good to pretty good most of the time.

You keep asking for proof of this.

Not proof, but an explanation or a shred of evidence. Nobody has explained yet how LB has worked his midas touch on Lee, or Frye, what is so different about them now from 2 months ago.

Can you prove it's not the case?

I am not trying to prove anything regarding what goes on behind closed doors. That is what everybody who has argued against my point of view has done, and I think that is because they have no reasonable argument to explain what we have all seen on the floor. Blind faith in other words.

I have based my commentary on what we can all see. The games. The youngsters have played well when given the chance and this goes all the way back to the beginning of the season. With the vets in the lineup and a strictly half-court game, the Knicks have looked old, incohesive, just bad.

Now playing time and style of play have totally flipped and the Knicks look decent and are far more entertaining.

Do you really think that Lee is a completely different player than he was 2 months ago? Or any of the other players? Or are they finally being allowed to play, and in a way that suits their abilities. Because that is what I have taken from what we all can see.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 01-07-2006 9:38 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Marv
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1/8/2006  3:31 AM
I think you pose an excellent argument for believing Larry mishandled the roster. I think I pose an equally excellent one for believing he worked it just right ( ). I think there's no "proof" on either side, just different interpretations of what's playing out on the court.

I think we're all united in wanting to see it grow!!
oohah
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1/8/2006  3:41 AM
I think you pose an excellent argument for believing Larry mishandled the roster. I think I pose an equally excellent one for believing he worked it just right ( ). I think there's no "proof" on either side, just different interpretations of what's playing out on the court.
I think we're all united in wanting to see it grow!!

Its all good Marv, because I know we are both fans and want the same thing, and I enjoy discussing with you because you are always intelligent and civil whether we agree or disagree.

Talk to you later,

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 01-08-2006 03:41 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
growing pains for ariza + james (article)

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