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What exactly has Isiah done as an executive anywhere
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martin
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12/29/2005  5:37 PM
WHAT? I AM Spartacus. You just quoted me.
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bigbeast
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12/29/2005  5:58 PM
Posted by FireIsiah:

This is what he has done. Brought the payroll from 95 mill to 115 mill and has made the team worse. No one said it would be a quick fix but according to him adding all this payroll made the team better. 7-20 we are alot better. LOL!!! He still has no true center, I don't want to hear about Curry b/c this guy can't stay on the court. And when he is on the court he has no defensive awareness and can't rebound for a 7 footer. Thats a true center!!! The Bulls wanted to get rid of him sooooo bad they are laughing to the bank that they got a lottery pick for him. Jerome James- is there a bigger stiff in the league than this guy? 25 mill for 5 years is on Isiah, good job in scouting. Quentin- 38% from the field lifetime and is probably the worst defensive small foward in the league. Watch him play off a pick and he is at least 4 steps behind his guy. In all these moves I still don't see an outside shooter. I guess Crawford and his lights out shooting will do the job (39% from the field lifetime).

Curry will be a beast offensively in this league. I agree he doesn't rebound well for a center, but neither did Ewing or Ming. Everyone around the bulls are saying the Bulls miss Curry and his size. Check there record. Plus, he never had injury problems in the past.

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
fishmike
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12/29/2005  6:44 PM
thats the hope. If Frye and Curry dont turn out to be bigtime borderline elite players for the Knicks in the next couple years than 4-5 years from now we will be talking about EXACTLY the same crap.

We arent getting franchise talent in the draft
We arent getting franchise talent via free agency

Those are absolutes. If you want to give Isiah a 1% chance of landing the next Arenas with a late #1 fine

That leaves us with draft picks that we hope we can use for more role players like Lee, Ariza and Nate and the MLE.

We are building around Frye and Curry. Thats the basket Isiah has put all his eggs in. I hope like hell it works out
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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12/29/2005  6:51 PM
so here is a paradox... PHO has such a good GM cause he traded us Marb and Penny to clear cap and whatever, but that same GM was the guy who signed Marb to the his orginal contract.
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BRIGGS
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12/29/2005  7:06 PM
fishmike, what I want to know is the plan to go forward with everyone else on the team? After those two guys--whats the plan? do we keep marbury my default? crawford has shown signs but remians inconsistent and skinny--we need to rebuild the secondary big men, we need a real SF, a pass first PG--just having two guys --who both we have no idea what will happen anyway?

do they think the team now with a year or two of seasoning is going to be winning 50 games? I mean we JUST acquired all of these guys in the last two years and SPENT a shtload of money doing so--but the problem is it doesnt fit well. but will they keep it together this is where im lost i dont have a frikin clue--are the knicks strangled by their own mistakes?
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martin
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12/29/2005  7:09 PM
BRIGGS I think it will be telling at the trade deadline. We shall see what the team does with Penny/AD. That's all they got.
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OAK
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12/30/2005  2:10 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Brigg's is 100% right. After next year we would have had a clean slate. If Isiah had stuck with the only thing he's proved he's capable of we would be a year and a half away from unlimited amount of cap space. We could sign max level FA's. We could take on salaries without having to match. The flexibility we would be enjoying would leave us with unlimited options. We would also have a roster full of guys like Nate, Frye, Lee, Ariza. If we kept the Marbury pick maybe we have Josh or JR Smith. We would be in position to draft Gay, Aldridge, Morrison or Ranjo this draft. That could have been 18 months away had we stuck to the kind of plan most other teams would have.

Instead we have a lot of redundant nasty contracts attached to players the coach doesnt even like. Crawford, Marbury, Q, Rose, Jerome James are all around for 2 more years AFTER this one.

We would have had a chance at franchise caliber superstar talent in the draft. Maybe we pick up Paul or Bogut instead of Frye.

Instead of building through the draft we load up the roster with other team's cast offs and junk, and saddle ourselves with horrible contracts that run for years.

Misterearl... I'm glad your patient. Its a key to being able to follow this team

right on, dude.
bobs3304
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12/30/2005  2:24 AM
It all starts with Marbury.

That single acquisition set this monster in motion.

And now Isiah can't stop it, so he's struggling to hide it.

It's sort of like when you make a small fib, and it grows and grows, and you either choose to come clean with it, or you're get skurred and further the lie, and it grows and grows, until it's out of control.

Isiah hasn't even had a single plan. His plan was to win-now with Marbury and Houston. Then Houston goes down, he scrambles and trades for Crawford, followedb by Taylor, Rose, etc, etc. Then he realized it wasn't working out, so he tried to hide this monster by claiming we were "rebuilding"......which was convenient b/c we had 3 draft picks coming up.

I'd say Zeke is a sly fox, with little REAL GM talent. He's good at evaluating rookie talent, but aside from that, he can't manage dollars for jack, and his choice in personell through trades and FA signings is poor.

He's a used car salesman. In fact he's alot like Marbury.

Talks the good talk. Can't really walk the walk though. They're meant for eachother.....
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
fishmike
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12/30/2005  7:33 AM
Marbury is also the guy that can turn it around I'm still rooting for him to do so
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
FireIsiah
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12/30/2005  9:19 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Marbury is also the guy that can turn it around I'm still rooting for him to do so

Marbury is a career loser!!! Everyone get it through their heads we will never win with a player like this running the point. If Isiah can trade that awful contract he should get executive of the year.
I want to leave something that's going to stand for a long timeI want to leave a legacy,I want to leave tradition.I want to leave an imprint,a blueprint in terms of how people play,and how they coach and how they respond when they put on the Knick uni.
islesfan
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12/30/2005  9:32 AM
Posted by FireIsiah:
Posted by fishmike:

Marbury is also the guy that can turn it around I'm still rooting for him to do so

Marbury is a career loser!!! Everyone get it through their heads we will never win with a player like this running the point. If Isiah can trade that awful contract he should get executive of the year.

It's not just trading him and his huge contract but what kind of garbage will he take back? Any contract can be traded but at what price?

I'm still trying to figure out why Isiah gets as much slack around here as he does for the train wreck that is his creation and nobody elses. 2 years was plenty of time to start building a solid foundation, accumulate assets and lower the payroll. Instead we have a team of misfits, reclamation projects and role players, more than a few of our high draft picks have been traded away and he's added tens of millions to our salary cap problem. Someone please explain why he's getting a pass but Brown after 27 games isn't.

On another note, I don't think he had any intention of building around Houston. I think he wanted him gone ASAP but the fact that he was already breaking down before Isiah got here, his contract and his relationship with Dolan made him untradeable. But that shouldn't have stopped Isiah from planning on life after Houston's contract expired.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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12/30/2005  9:53 AM
Posted by FireIsiah:
Posted by fishmike:

Marbury is also the guy that can turn it around I'm still rooting for him to do so

Marbury is a career loser!!! Everyone get it through their heads we will never win with a player like this running the point. If Isiah can trade that awful contract he should get executive of the year.
Kind of like Elton Brand and Chris Webber were career losers. Like Bibby was a career loser. Dont be stupid

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
joec32033
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12/30/2005  9:57 AM
I know I am in this convo. late but, I got to add my 2 cents.

Zeke built Toronto with Vince, McGrady, Damon, Camby....
Zeke in Indy developed JO, Artest, Brad Miller.....

Remember Zeke got Artest, JO, and Miller in trades (with Chicago and Portland) and drafted Vince, Camby, Damon, TMac....

In both instances he was basically in a posiotion of clean slate and when he got here not only does he have to rebuild it, he has to clean up the mess from the management before.
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islesfan
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12/30/2005  10:16 AM
Posted by joec32033:

I know I am in this convo. late but, I got to add my 2 cents.

Zeke built Toronto with Vince, McGrady, Damon, Camby....
Zeke in Indy developed JO, Artest, Brad Miller.....

Remember Zeke got Artest, JO, and Miller in trades (with Chicago and Portland) and drafted Vince, Camby, Damon, TMac....

In both instances he was basically in a posiotion of clean slate and when he got here not only does he have to rebuild it, he has to clean up the mess from the management before.

Built Toronto into what? And notice Isiah drafted those players with what? HIGH LOTTERY PICKS of which Isiah has traded away 4 of ours.

All Indy did was underachieve when he was there. It was Carlisle that took them to another level. And Donnie Walsh got those players, not Isiah.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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12/30/2005  10:37 AM
Not to defend Zeke because this is unrelated but what level has Carlisle taken Indy too. Could this be related to Jermaine's maturity as much as it is Carlisle's coaching? I don't see how they have gotten much better since he has gotten there.

But back to Zeke and the Knicks. I am not firing the guy because his legacy to me is more about Curry and Frye than Marbury. And I think stability and allowing guys to learn from mistakes of the past is part of long-term winning. But..........you really can't defend his record. Nothing he's done here has worked to date.
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joec32033
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12/30/2005  10:52 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by joec32033:

I know I am in this convo. late but, I got to add my 2 cents.

Zeke built Toronto with Vince, McGrady, Damon, Camby....
Zeke in Indy developed JO, Artest, Brad Miller.....

Remember Zeke got Artest, JO, and Miller in trades (with Chicago and Portland) and drafted Vince, Camby, Damon, TMac....

In both instances he was basically in a posiotion of clean slate and when he got here not only does he have to rebuild it, he has to clean up the mess from the management before.

Built Toronto into what? And notice Isiah drafted those players with what? HIGH LOTTERY PICKS of which Isiah has traded away 4 of ours.

All Indy did was underachieve when he was there. It was Carlisle that took them to another level. And Donnie Walsh got those players, not Isiah.


Which High lotto picks has Zeke traded away? Next year and the year after (maybe)? It takes it to a whole new level judging draft picks a full year before a player is even drafted in the slots man.

Look at what Zeke got back....Curry is definately worth the pick this year (especially with Frye here now, where this draft is big on centers and PF's and we have enough of those). The pick next year well...who knows what that would be....

In 04 he gave up the 16th pick which turned out to be Kirk Snyder. Granted there were some very good players available(JR Smith and Josh Smith) but they were passed on also so Zeke isn't the only one who made that mistake.

In 05 he got 3 picks who look to be good picks. Exactly what is the major problem here?
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jaydh
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12/30/2005  10:55 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by joec32033:

I know I am in this convo. late but, I got to add my 2 cents.

Zeke built Toronto with Vince, McGrady, Damon, Camby....
Zeke in Indy developed JO, Artest, Brad Miller.....

Remember Zeke got Artest, JO, and Miller in trades (with Chicago and Portland) and drafted Vince, Camby, Damon, TMac....

In both instances he was basically in a posiotion of clean slate and when he got here not only does he have to rebuild it, he has to clean up the mess from the management before.

Built Toronto into what? And notice Isiah drafted those players with what? HIGH LOTTERY PICKS of which Isiah has traded away 4 of ours.

All Indy did was underachieve when he was there. It was Carlisle that took them to another level. And Donnie Walsh got those players, not Isiah.


Which High lotto picks has Zeke traded away? Next year and the year after (maybe)? It takes it to a whole new level judging draft picks a full year before a player is even drafted in the slots man.


Look at what Zeke got back....Curry is definately worth the pick this year (especially with Frye here now, where this draft is big on centers and PF's and we have enough of those). The pick next year well...who knows what that would be....

didnt you hear, the bulls already got the #1 pick in the draft.
Posted by joec32033:


In 05 he got 3 picks who look to be good picks. Exactly what is the major problem here?

people here are haters and will knit-pick everything
joec32033
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12/30/2005  10:56 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Not to defend Zeke because this is unrelated but what level has Carlisle taken Indy too. Could this be related to Jermaine's maturity as much as it is Carlisle's coaching? I don't see how they have gotten much better since he has gotten there.

But back to Zeke and the Knicks. I am not firing the guy because his legacy to me is more about Curry and Frye than Marbury. And I think stability and allowing guys to learn from mistakes of the past is part of long-term winning. But..........you really can't defend his record. Nothing he's done here has worked to date.


I can't even REALLY fault Zeke for Steph because there seems to be a trend where these good players come to NY and all of a sudden they flame out quickly (McDyess, Charles Smith, Anderson and Eisley were good role players in Utah that flames out here, Camby was good but constantly hurt...the only players we brought in that didn't totally flame out were Houston and Sprewell and one of them didn't have a leader's attitude and the other wanted to lead but wanted none of the responsibilities of being a leader). These players haven't even been close to the players they were before they got here.
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franco12
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12/30/2005  11:04 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Bippity10:

Not to defend Zeke because this is unrelated but what level has Carlisle taken Indy too. Could this be related to Jermaine's maturity as much as it is Carlisle's coaching? I don't see how they have gotten much better since he has gotten there.

But back to Zeke and the Knicks. I am not firing the guy because his legacy to me is more about Curry and Frye than Marbury. And I think stability and allowing guys to learn from mistakes of the past is part of long-term winning. But..........you really can't defend his record. Nothing he's done here has worked to date.


I can't even REALLY fault Zeke for Steph because there seems to be a trend where these good players come to NY and all of a sudden they flame out quickly (McDyess, Charles Smith, Anderson and Eisley were good role players in Utah that flames out here, Camby was good but constantly hurt...the only players we brought in that didn't totally flame out were Houston and Sprewell and one of them didn't have a leader's attitude and the other wanted to lead but wanted none of the responsibilities of being a leader). These players haven't even been close to the players they were before they got here.


I've been thinking about this trend a lot- decent players come to the knicks, and underperform. Marbury, did sort of turn that around.

And with that thought, I could see Artest coming here and dropping his stats- for no other reason than he's a knick...
Bippity10
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12/30/2005  11:04 AM
It's a combination of the NY pressure and the fact that Anderson, Eisley and Marbs were placed into roles that they were incapable of filling and then were blasted for not filling them. In Utah Shandon and Howard were role players who only had to mop up the dirty work left undone by Malone and Stockton. HEre we needed Shandon to be a shut down SF and provide shooting. We needed Eisley to become Kidd and lead our offense. Marbs we need him to be a Jason Kidd type leader and to help our offense run like the Celtics of yore. All these players are incapable of filling the roles we are asking them to do and will not become more valuable to us until we get help around them.
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What exactly has Isiah done as an executive anywhere
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