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I guess Nash doesn't need the excuses like Marbury does
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McK1
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12/10/2005  4:10 PM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by McK1:

AD haters

Phoenix' starting frontcourt dominated the Knicks starting frontcourt on the boards 31-21 without playing anyone over 6' 9 or anyone more than 240 lbs.

They didn't have to unleash El Toro. Lucky us...


Huh? As a team they were outrebounded by 7 and the SUns starting frontcourt played a bunch more minutes. Good compairison.

Diaw KT and Marion, 3 guys glaringly outsized had the same amount of rebounds as NY's whole starting 5.

The difference on the boards: Suns subbed in not 1 big man off the bench. Taylor Rose and Butler should out-rebound House Barbosa and Jones.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
AUTOADVERT
BasketballJones
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12/10/2005  6:09 PM
Homers vs. Haters -- I like it!
https:// It's not so hard.
jaydh
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12/10/2005  6:15 PM
Posted by tkf:

really isle, wouldn't it just be easier to go root for another team? I mean why bother?

hahhahaha... thats funny because everytime i read one of his posts i think the same thing. so many pseudo-knick fans, they love to hate, and will only be happy when they actually run the team themselves.
OngBok
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12/10/2005  6:22 PM
I think the Haters out number the Homers in desire only !!
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
newyorknewyork
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12/10/2005  6:51 PM
Nash gets all the credit in the world for being 13-5 right now. He has definalty earned my respect which he never needed anyway. I said I needed to see him win without unique talents Dirk or Amare and he has done so. Even though Marion is unigue also its time to give Nash his due. So props to him. He still shouldn't have been MVP over Duncan or Shaq but now I do realize he was MVP worthy.

Shawn Marion is more talented than Marbury. He puts up better #s than Marbury. Can guard PFs & SF/SGs. He is a top rebounder and stud shotblocker, though his shot isn't pretty can still knock down jumpers, 3s, or slash, And he is a freak athlete. Marion truly has grown the last 3 seasons after they moved Marbury and he was the focal point of the team that yr. Not that Marbury held him back. But when it was his team he stepped up impact wise. Plus showed off his versatility playing PF last yr. The only thing is Marion isn't going to bring fans in the seats as the main attraction so he isn't going to get the type of attention Marbury or Nash or Amare would get. So its not like Nash is playing with a bunch of scrubs. Him and Nash make 2 very talented stud players both playing the best basketball of there careers. But 13-5 is very impressive for that current suns squad.

As for the Knicks. We could easily be way better than our record indicates. But Larry Brown is sacraficing wins to fullfill his plan. Which I have no problem with because of his track record. Yes the players are struggling some to. But once Larry Brown decides its time to focus on winning and coaching accordingly. We are going to start winning a lot more games.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
EWING33BXNY
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12/10/2005  7:03 PM
Posted by eViL:

You guys are too much. Even without Amare, Nash has a legit all-star in Marion to play with. When Nash played with Dallas he had a legit all-star in Dirk Nowitzki to play with.

How many all-star teammates (besides KG) has Stephon had in his career? And I'm not asking how many guys went on to become all-stars, I'm asking how many guys were playing at all-star levels with Marbury at the same time?

I'm not a Starbury-lover, but you guys make him out to be the reason we lose every game. Let go of the personal vendettas.

Very well put!!! I believe when STARBURY gets the support he needs and we are a better team, everyone here is going to love him. Its crazy but people need to realize that this is a team game. STARBURY is a good player, not great, but give him some support and the KNICKS will go a long way. Cut the man some slack. Who else on our team commands the respect he does when the ROCK is in his hands. Until we get that second player who consistently commands that respect we all need to lay off him.
EWING33BXNY
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12/10/2005  7:09 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Because I've invested 25 years rooting for this team and I want to see them win another championship before another 25 years goes by. Is that ok with you?

Just cut your losses. Man some people get a divorce after 30 years. You need to just start being a front runner and cheer for people who won't upset you for 25 years!!!
SlimPack
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12/10/2005  7:11 PM
Posted by EWING33BXNY:
Posted by eViL:

You guys are too much. Even without Amare, Nash has a legit all-star in Marion to play with. When Nash played with Dallas he had a legit all-star in Dirk Nowitzki to play with.

How many all-star teammates (besides KG) has Stephon had in his career? And I'm not asking how many guys went on to become all-stars, I'm asking how many guys were playing at all-star levels with Marbury at the same time?

I'm not a Starbury-lover, but you guys make him out to be the reason we lose every game. Let go of the personal vendettas.

Very well put!!! I believe when STARBURY gets the support he needs and we are a better team, everyone here is going to love him. Its crazy but people need to realize that this is a team game. STARBURY is a good player, not great, but give him some support and the KNICKS will go a long way. Cut the man some slack. Who else on our team commands the respect he does when the ROCK is in his hands. Until we get that second player who consistently commands that respect we all need to lay off him.

we dont have the time nor the financial resources to assemble an allstar roster just to accomodate marbury. the knicks would be better of trading him for a player that can better help our team. for i.e. a player that can actually make his team mates better

[Edited by - SlimPack on 12-10-2005 7:11 PM]
EWING33BXNY
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12/10/2005  7:14 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by EWING33BXNY:
Posted by eViL:

You guys are too much. Even without Amare, Nash has a legit all-star in Marion to play with. When Nash played with Dallas he had a legit all-star in Dirk Nowitzki to play with.

How many all-star teammates (besides KG) has Stephon had in his career? And I'm not asking how many guys went on to become all-stars, I'm asking how many guys were playing at all-star levels with Marbury at the same time?

I'm not a Starbury-lover, but you guys make him out to be the reason we lose every game. Let go of the personal vendettas.

Very well put!!! I believe when STARBURY gets the support he needs and we are a better team, everyone here is going to love him. Its crazy but people need to realize that this is a team game. STARBURY is a good player, not great, but give him some support and the KNICKS will go a long way. Cut the man some slack. Who else on our team commands the respect he does when the ROCK is in his hands. Until we get that second player who consistently commands that respect we all need to lay off him.

we dont have the time nor the financial resources to assemble an allstar roster just to accomodate marbury. the knicks would be better of trading him for a player that can better help our team. for i.e. a player that can actually make his team mates better

[Edited by - SlimPack on 12-10-2005 7:11 PM]

HONESTLY, what do you think we can get for STARBURY and his contract that would help us win now??? NO GM with an ounce a smarts would give up anything that can turn a franchise around.
McK1
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12/10/2005  7:18 PM
Posted by EWING33BXNY:



NO GM with an ounce a smarts would give up anything that can turn a franchise around.

funny you should say that considering Isiah made the Marbury deal with the GM who ended up winning executive of the year right after it.



[Edited by - McK1 on 12-10-2005 7:19 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
SlimPack
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12/10/2005  7:22 PM
Posted by EWING33BXNY:



HONESTLY, what do you think we can get for STARBURY and his contract that would help us win now??? NO GM with an ounce a smarts would give up anything that can turn a franchise around.

omg your right, marbury is already untradeable, best then to just cut our loses and buyout his contract and use the roster spot to sign someone else.
efw
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12/10/2005  8:18 PM
Look, didn't we all agree that this was Steph's make or break year?

Personally I see a lot of improvement in his game. And I think that, once the team really gets Brown's concept, things will look up. But, there are definitely things that Marbury doesn't do half as good as Nash and vice versa.

I think it's unfair to say that Marbury hasn't lead his team to anything just yet. Let's have this discussion at the end of the year. If Steph is still having trouble distributing and hasn't found his niche, then I agree, he never will.

But just like there's no reason to be on his jock, there's no reason to hate on him yet.
SlimPack
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12/10/2005  8:24 PM
I was just kidding about all that stuff I just said about marbury, Im willin to give the dude a chance
Vmart
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12/10/2005  8:24 PM
Blaming Marbury for the losses is wrong. When do we start to blame Brown for stupid lineups. This old man may know a lot about coaching but he hasn't a clue about lineups.
SlimPack
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12/10/2005  8:27 PM
Posted by Vmart:

Blaming Marbury for the losses is wrong. When do we start to blame Brown for stupid lineups. This old man may know a lot about coaching but he hasn't a clue about lineups.

no one on this thread is blaming marbury for the losses, although I do appreciate the opportunity to increase my post count

[Edited by - SlimPack on 12-10-2005 8:27 PM]
tkf
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12/10/2005  11:36 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by martin:

I have to tell you guys, as much as I sometimes disagree with Isles I would say that he is one of my more fav posters cause of his unique and fairly consistent opinions. Some of his posts are whack but what the hell. Dude ain't drinkin the Kook Aid but maybe it's Beam or something real strong

Excellent. See this is the difference between this board and realgm. On realgm the moderators are actually sanctioned to attack the credibility of "haters", and insinuate they are bad for the board. Trust me, I got it a lot over there and for taking issue with moderators who suggest skeptical views have no real place on the board I was suspended.

The funny thing is that now that myself and a couple of others are gone or less active, I see threads springing up by many of the people so often opposed to our views parroting our observations as though they are their own original thoughts. Folks saying stuff like, "is it me or does anyone else notice that Steph isn't that great of a playmaker", or "I'm noticing Steph has trouble feeding the post or setting up bigs for easy baskets", or "did anyone see the look he gave so and so, is it possible Steph is bad for chemistry?"

But never will you hear them say "hey, looks like some of that stuff the haters were saying for years might be true and we shouldn't have been bashing their skulls all this time." You don't hear a lot of that....


good point, but in all fairness Blue, I created a thread about marbury, and I also refrenced both you and pf99 for being mostly correct in your views. That was a hard pill for me to swallow, but I thought it was fair..... A few others over there gave a lot of credit to the so called haters... Funny how a year changes things... go figure..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
nixluva
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12/10/2005  11:37 PM
Hey lets just look at the positives going forward. We have the makings of really good team. We have a favorable schedule coming up now. The start of this season was going to be brutal no matter what, with the schedule, LB's new system (and his strange decisions) as well as all the new players. Then we had guys coming in late and being out of shape so far.

As it is right now, you can see this team getting better. They're still far away, but you can see the progress. Just think about this last road trip. They played some TOUGH teams. The Suns and Clippers are 2 of the hottest teams in the league and we could easily have won both games if we executed a little better and hit some point blank shots. Nothing that i've seen points to Steph being any kind of problem at this point. We just need for LB to do a better job of putting players in a position to succeed. His lineups and rotations, DNP's for players who had done well. He's all over the place. That means the team hasn't really had the consistency that leads to good chemistry. that's one of the reasons we lead the league in TO's. That's a poor reflection on the Coach. We had less to work with last year and we were much better offensively. I have to hope that this won't continue and that the team will eventually get it together. Lets not jump on Steph lets support the team and look forward to the rest of the season.
tkf
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12/10/2005  11:38 PM
Posted by eViL:

So in order to combat the "homers", you guys have to be one-dimensional "haters". How about seeing both sides? If you consistantly have only one thing to say, you are one-dimensional.


exactly...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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12/10/2005  11:46 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Hey lets just look at the positives going forward. We have the makings of really good team. We have a favorable schedule coming up now. The start of this season was going to be brutal no matter what, with the schedule, LB's new system (and his strange decisions) as well as all the new players. Then we had guys coming in late and being out of shape so far.

As it is right now, you can see this team getting better. They're still far away, but you can see the progress. Just think about this last road trip. They played some TOUGH teams. The Suns and Clippers are 2 of the hottest teams in the league and we could easily have won both games if we executed a little better and hit some point blank shots. Nothing that i've seen points to Steph being any kind of problem at this point. We just need for LB to do a better job of putting players in a position to succeed. His lineups and rotations, DNP's for players who had done well. He's all over the place. That means the team hasn't really had the consistency that leads to good chemistry. that's one of the reasons we lead the league in TO's. That's a poor reflection on the Coach. We had less to work with last year and we were much better offensively. I have to hope that this won't continue and that the team will eventually get it together. Lets not jump on Steph lets support the team and look forward to the rest of the season.


Hey lets just look at the positives going forward

be carefull, you might be labeled a homer. Make sure you mix in a lot of negative stuff, like Marbury sucks, IT sucks, Larry brown sucks, Frye will never get better and Earl boykins is a better center than curry.....

Ok, let me stop..... I had to get that one in...

Anyway, I agree with your post, cut back on the turnovers, get consistent rotation and the rest should fall in place...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
rojasmas
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12/11/2005  2:37 AM
I agree with Isles to a point. Pboenix got off to a horse bleep start and here they are at 13-5. Most peole discounted them after the loss of Amare. Do you really believe Steph could have gotten this Phoexix bunch off to the same start? Steph is good, but Nash is special, in regards to his teammates. I will wait to see Steph as a point guard extraordinaire like Nash. Sorry all you homeboys from NYC. The Canadien white boy has major game.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
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I guess Nash doesn't need the excuses like Marbury does
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