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OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact
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Marv
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9/1/2005  5:31 PM
Hey everyone who's into this thread should stop by here and give this guy some props:

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=6315&page=1
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BRIGGS
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9/1/2005  5:32 PM
[quote]
Posted by Rich:

Jack Cafferty tells it like it is on CNN:

"I gotta tell you something, we got five or six hundred letters before the show actually went on the air, and no one - no one - is saying the government is doing a good job in handling one of the most atrocious and embarrassing and far-reaching and calamatous things that has come along in this country in my lifetime. I'm 62. I remember the riots in Watts, I remember the earthquake in San Francisco, I remember a lot of things. I have never, ever, seen anything as bungled and as poorly handled as this situation in New Orleans. Where the hell is the water for these people? Why can't sandwiches be dropped to those people in the Superdome. What is going on? This is Thursday! This storm happened 5 days ago. This is a disgrace. And don't think the world isn't watching. This is the government that the taxpayers are paying for, and it's fallen right flat on its face as far as I can see, in the way it's handled this thing."

Is there a website that we can voice a strong opinion on why George Bush has to go NOW? If not, anyone who wants to start one, I will pay the freight on everything with the website, every last penny of cost. Just tell me how to do it, and I will pay for it.

RIP Crushalot😞
Silverfuel
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9/1/2005  6:09 PM
Posted by Knight:

No, I don't. Facts say that something happened but what to make of it requires interpretation --some kind of evaluation beyond the fact of the matter.
I didnt want to get into a semantic discussion on the usage of "fact" but let me tell you, when most people say fact, they dont mean the 'evaluation beyong the fact of the matter.' You can use facts a wrong way but you are not going to change a fact!
My previous post was regarding this:
Posted by Knight:
Facts don't tell you anything
You replied with, "Facts say that something happened." That's all I am saying. I'll give you an example. FACT: Terrorists used planes to attack the Twin Towers in NY. Thats a fact and you cant really spin it anyway you want like you said before. If you dont agree with someone and they say, check the facts, they dont mean check the interpretation. They mean, check the facts, interpret them and then disagree.

Thats it from me about this.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
nyvector16
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9/1/2005  6:15 PM
For all you diehard Right Wingers out there...
See how your party's leadership is handling this catastrophe...




House Speaker: Rebuilding N.O. doesn't make sense
Thursday, 2:55 p.m.

By Bill Walsh
Washington bureau

WASHINGTON - House Speaker Dennis Hastert dropped a bombshell on flood-ravaged New Orleans on Thursday by suggesting that it isn’t sensible to rebuild the city.

"It doesn't make sense to me," Hastert told the Daily Herald in suburban Chicago in editions published today. "And it's a question that certainly we should ask."

Hastert's comments came as Congress cut short its summer recess and raced back to Washington to take up an emergency aid package expected to be $10 billion or more. Details of the legislation are still emerging, but it is expected to target critical items such as buses to evacuate the city, reinforcing existing flood protection and providing food and shelter for a growing population of refugees.

The Illinois Republican’s comments drew an immediate rebuke from Louisiana officials.

“That’s like saying we should shut down Los Angeles because it’s built in an earthquake zone,” former Sen. John Breaux, D-La., said. “Or like saying that after the Great Chicago fire of 1871, the U.S. government should have just abandoned the city.”

Hastert said that he supports an emergency bailout, but raised questions about a long-term rebuilding effort. As the most powerful voice in the Republican-controlled House, Hastert is in a position to block any legislation that he opposes.

"We help replace, we help relieve disaster," Hastert said. "But I think federal insurance and everything that goes along with it... we ought to take a second look at that."

The speaker’s comments were in stark contrast to those delivered by President Bush during an appearance this morning on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”

“I want the people of New Orleans to know that after rescuing them and stabilizing the situation, there will be plans in place to help this great city get back on its feet,” Bush said. “There is no doubt in my mind that New Orleans is going to rise up again as a great city.”

Insurance industry executives estimated that claims from the storm could range up to $19 billion. Rebuilding the city, which is more than 80 percent submerged, could cost tens of billions of dollars more, experts projected.

Hastert questioned the wisdom of rebuilding a city below sea level that will continue to be in the path of powerful hurricanes.

"You know we build Los Angeles and San Francisco on top of earthquake issures and they rebuild, too. Stubbornness," he said.

Hastert wasn't the only one questioning the rebuilding of New Orleans. The Waterbury, Conn., Republican-American newspaper wrote an editorial Wednesday entitled, "Is New Orleans worth reclaiming?"

"Americans' hearts go out to the people in Katrina's path," it said. "But if the people of New Orleans and other low-lying areas insist on living in harm's way, they ought to accept responsibility for what happens to them and their property."
nyvector16
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9/1/2005  6:18 PM
Old New Orleans has turned into the Wild Wild West...
Snipers firing on Hospitals...
People are starving...
and this Hurricane happened 4 DAYS ago... and stilll no mass relief has arrived...
All that Bush has said is help is coming...
The entire handling of this catastrophe has been a debacle...
And now.. to add insult to injury..
The House Speaker is questioning whether it would really be practical to rebuild the city...

unfreakinbelievable...
Bobby
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9/1/2005  9:01 PM
most interesting read from the boston globe:


ROSS GELBSPAN
Katrina's real name
By Ross Gelbspan | August 30, 2005

THE HURRICANE that struck Louisiana yesterday was nicknamed Katrina by the National Weather Service. Its real name is global warming.

When the year began with a two-foot snowfall in Los Angeles, the cause was global warming.

When 124-mile-an-hour winds shut down nuclear plants in Scandinavia and cut power to hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland and the United Kingdom, the driver was global warming.

When a severe drought in the Midwest dropped water levels in the Missouri River to their lowest on record earlier this summer, the reason was global warming.

In July, when the worst drought on record triggered wildfires in Spain and Portugal and left water levels in France at their lowest in 30 years, the explanation was global warming.

When a lethal heat wave in Arizona kept temperatures above 110 degrees and killed more than 20 people in one week, the culprit was global warming.

And when the Indian city of Bombay (Mumbai) received 37 inches of rain in one day -- killing 1,000 people and disrupting the lives of 20 million others -- the villain was global warming.

As the atmosphere warms, it generates longer droughts, more-intense downpours, more-frequent heat waves, and more-severe storms.

Although Katrina began as a relatively small hurricane that glanced off south Florida, it was supercharged with extraordinary intensity by the relatively blistering sea surface temperatures in the Gulf of Mexico.

The consequences are as heartbreaking as they are terrifying.

Unfortunately, very few people in America know the real name of Hurricane Katrina because the coal and oil industries have spent millions of dollars to keep the public in doubt about the issue.

The reason is simple: To allow the climate to stabilize requires humanity to cut its use of coal and oil by 70 percent. That, of course, threatens the survival of one of the largest commercial enterprises in history.

In 1995, public utility hearings in Minnesota found that the coal industry had paid more than $1 million to four scientists who were public dissenters on global warming. And ExxonMobil has spent more than $13 million since 1998 on an anti-global warming public relations and lobbying campaign.

In 2000, big oil and big coal scored their biggest electoral victory yet when President George W. Bush was elected president -- and subsequently took suggestions from the industry for his climate and energy policies.

As the pace of climate change accelerates, many researchers fear we have already entered a period of irreversible runaway climate change.

Against this background, the ignorance of the American public about global warming stands out as an indictment of the US media.

When the US press has bothered to cover the subject of global warming, it has focused almost exclusively on its political and diplomatic aspects and not on what the warming is doing to our agriculture, water supplies, plant and animal life, public health, and weather.

For years, the fossil fuel industry has lobbied the media to accord the same weight to a handful of global warming skeptics that it accords the findings of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change -- more than 2,000 scientists from 100 countries reporting to the United Nations.

Today, with the science having become even more robust -- and the impacts as visible as the megastorm that covered much of the Gulf of Mexico -- the press bears a share of the guilt for our self-induced destruction with the oil and coal industries.

As a Bostonian, I am afraid that the coming winter will -- like last winter -- be unusually short and devastatingly severe. At the beginning of 2005, a deadly ice storm knocked out power to thousands of people in New England and dropped a record-setting 42.2 inches of snow on Boston.

The conventional name of the month was January. Its real name is global warming.

Ross Gelbspan is author of ''The Heat Is On" and ''Boiling Point."



© Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
GoNyGoNyGo
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9/1/2005  9:47 PM
Yes..you libs are right. Global Warming is the cause of everything bad and Bush is responsible for everything bad and nothing good. The US started on 1/21/01 and since then all has gone to hell!

So what are your solutions? I actually hoped that the dumb ASS Kerry would win, if only to show the world how stupid he is. By the way, check the records, Kerry flunked a few more courses than GW, but that is beside the fact.

That article about Global Warming is about the stupidest thing I have ever read! What a farce! When are you LIBS going to stop running around telling everyone they are going to DIE everyday? If its not global warming, its meat, or SUV's or second hand smoke or something! All you seem to do is complain really well about every little thing in the world. Its not enough that people were told to leave, and did not listen. If BuSH HAD sent in the military to remove the people, you would have screamed that he was bringing back the third REICH! NOTHING, NOTHING will ever appease you folks. You drown in your own circuitous self-hate and pessimism! It really is sad.

Its no wonder this country is where it is at! There are too many stupid people who dont pay attention citing fiction as fact and believing it!

As for the storm it hit on Monday morning. At first, NO was not hit as hard as feared, what happend is that the levees broke and flooded the city on Monday night and Tuesday! That is when it got really bad. Someone said 5 days? Come on now, get your facts straight. The help wasalready coming on Tuesday, yet the media portrays it differnently. I wonder why? Bush left Texas on Wednseday and flew over the gulf to see the damage himself. I would say that was pretty quick. Today he flew down there again. To say he is not doing anything is PURE POLITICAL HOGWASH OPPORTUNISM and just the usual BUSH BASHING by the libs who still can't believe that this idiot beat their 2 smartest men in the world (Gore and Kerry)!!! Please.
Marv
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9/1/2005  9:54 PM
GoNY - I'm curious - Do you personally feel that GWB is a good President? Besides the fact that you dislike Dems, just looking at Bush's performance - you approve?
GoNyGoNyGo
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9/1/2005  9:56 PM
Just in case, you come back with the usual stuff. Here are somethings I totally disagree with Bush on:

1- Border control is a joke. He is doing nothing about it.
2- He spends too much money. Has not vetoed a thing. Fiscal Conservative, my butt!
3 - Iraq is taking too long. We should have sent more troops and hit them harder and still should do that now!

4 - for the teacher who brought up NCLB, remember that TED KENNEDY wrote most of that legislation. I have a problem with that.

To be true. Bush is about as far right wing as ALLAN HOUSTON has 2 good knees! imho.
GoNyGoNyGo
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9/1/2005  9:59 PM
Posted by Marv:

GoNY - I'm curious - Do you personally feel that GWB is a good President? Besides the fact that you dislike Dems, just looking at Bush's performance - you approve?


First off, I never said DEMS once in my post. If you are saying all DEMS are libs then those are your words. There are more than a few DEMS who I like and respect and they are not libs.

AS for BUSH, see above. Overall I would give him a C+/B- Pretty much what he got in school.

Are you asking for me to compare him to Bill? I would give Bill a similar grade.
Rich
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9/1/2005  10:25 PM
Compared to Bush, I would give Clinton an A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
nykshaknbake
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9/1/2005  10:42 PM
That global warning article is a pretty miserable piece of scare propaganda.
fishmike
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9/1/2005  11:27 PM
yea.. Clinton disgraced the country by getting a bj. Bush is disgracing it by... well, take your pick. If you rich he's done a great job. After all...

In 2004 the economic growth grew a solid 3.8%. But for the 5th straight year, the median household income was flat at $44,389 as reported by the Census Bureau. That’s the longest stretch of income stagnation on record.

An additional 800000 workers found themselves without health insurance bringing the ranks to 45.8 million people. 1.1 million more people fell into poverty bring that total to 37 million.

The 2004 census showed income inequity was near an all-time high with 50.1% of income going to the top 20% of households.

Hmmm... seems like one group of people is doing very well, while a much larger group not so good.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Rich
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9/2/2005  12:00 AM
The entire area between the red lines is underwater:
Knight
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9/2/2005  12:18 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:


I'll give you an example. FACT: Terrorists used planes to attack the Twin Towers in NY. Thats a fact and you cant really spin it anyway you want like you said before.

Not everyone in the world sees the people who flew the planes into the towers as "terrorists". Sorry, that's not a fact.


"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Rich
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9/2/2005  12:43 AM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by Silverfuel:


I'll give you an example. FACT: Terrorists used planes to attack the Twin Towers in NY. Thats a fact and you cant really spin it anyway you want like you said before.

Not everyone in the world sees the people who flew the planes into the towers as "terrorists". Sorry, that's not a fact.

Assumptions must be confined to the universe of reasonable people. They were terrorists to any reasonable person. That assertion is indisputable, just as it is indisputable that people had warned about the risk of the levees collapsing if a big hurricane hit New Orleans, contrary to Bush's assertion to Diane Sawyer on "Good Morning America" yesterday morning ("I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."), and as it is indisputable that Bush cut funding to FEMA (as is proven by facts cited earlier in this thread).
nyk4ever
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9/2/2005  1:38 AM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by Silverfuel:


I'll give you an example. FACT: Terrorists used planes to attack the Twin Towers in NY. Thats a fact and you cant really spin it anyway you want like you said before.

Not everyone in the world sees the people who flew the planes into the towers as "terrorists". Sorry, that's not a fact.

Assumptions must be confined to the universe of reasonable people. They were terrorists to any reasonable person. That assertion is indisputable, just as it is indisputable that people had warned about the risk of the levees collapsing if a big hurricane hit New Orleans, contrary to Bush's assertion to Diane Sawyer on "Good Morning America" yesterday morning ("I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."), and as it is indisputable that Bush cut funding to FEMA (as is proven by facts cited earlier in this thread).


LEAVE THE AREA IF THE LEVEES ARE GOING TO BREAK. Listen I feel terrible for these people but I dont care how poor you are, YOU LEAVE THE AREA. Walk, ride a bike, do somethign to get out. If you see a Category 5 hurricane coming GET OUT OF THE AREA, especially when your 27 feet under sea level! I don't like the way that Bush or anyone else is handling this but I'm tired of hearing about how these people couldn't leave. You know the very delicate circumstances that your city is under and if you don't use common sense then I dont know. I don't think the citizens of New Orleans thought it was going to be this bad from prior experiences but I mean you gotta prepare for the worst and these people clearly didn't. Again, I feel terrible for every single one of these people that are caught in this situation but I just don't think that they did everything they could have.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 09-02-2005 01:39 AM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BRIGGS
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9/2/2005  2:02 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by Silverfuel:


I'll give you an example. FACT: Terrorists used planes to attack the Twin Towers in NY. Thats a fact and you cant really spin it anyway you want like you said before.

Not everyone in the world sees the people who flew the planes into the towers as "terrorists". Sorry, that's not a fact.

Assumptions must be confined to the universe of reasonable people. They were terrorists to any reasonable person. That assertion is indisputable, just as it is indisputable that people had warned about the risk of the levees collapsing if a big hurricane hit New Orleans, contrary to Bush's assertion to Diane Sawyer on "Good Morning America" yesterday morning ("I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."), and as it is indisputable that Bush cut funding to FEMA (as is proven by facts cited earlier in this thread).


LEAVE THE AREA IF THE LEVEES ARE GOING TO BREAK. Listen I feel terrible for these people but I dont care how poor you are, YOU LEAVE THE AREA. Walk, ride a bike, do somethign to get out. If you see a Category 5 hurricane coming GET OUT OF THE AREA, especially when your 27 feet under sea level! I don't like the way that Bush or anyone else is handling this but I'm tired of hearing about how these people couldn't leave. You know the very delicate circumstances that your city is under and if you don't use common sense then I dont know. I don't think the citizens of New Orleans thought it was going to be this bad from prior experiences but I mean you gotta prepare for the worst and these people clearly didn't. Again, I feel terrible for every single one of these people that are caught in this situation but I just don't think that they did everything they could have.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 09-02-2005 01:39 AM]


Sorry, I don't agree. First off, there were tens of THOUSANDS of individuals who just didnt have the means to pick up and leave. My bet is they many did not understand what the magnitude of a category 5 hurricane could actually do to the cities.

Im sorry, I must have missed it when Goerge Bush got on National TV to warn the people to evacuate. Don't you think that top scientists briefed him well before the thing came to land what could happen? Don't you think it's the President of the United States responsibility to look out for the welfare of everyone in the US? He sure has a lot of interest in the people of Iraq to the tune of 300B and 2,100 soldiers, decaying alliances, a crumbling nation, poverty levels rising, energy problems spiraling out of control--yet it took him two days of devestation and 4-5 days of warnings of what may happen for him to get off his fat arse that had already been sitting in Texas for a month. Let me ask this question as well-he says we are at war--did Presidents of WW2 WW1 go sit at their ranch for a month during these wars? This guy is an ABSOLUTE national disgrace, a disaster who has such an overwhelming ego that he could never stop and say, maybe Im wrong here. No President Bush failed the American people, he shouldve been on national TV 2-3 days before this thing actually covered NO et al because he KNEW it could happen--he was home playing crochet and biking. Only 1 mistake those 9-11 terrorist made, they needed to ram one of those planes down George Bushes arse.
RIP Crushalot😞
Rich
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9/2/2005  3:05 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-transit1sep01,1,2571214.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

[...]

Delta Air Lines' decision to end its regular passenger air service out of New Orleans just after midnight Saturday was based on assessing the safety of its planes, employees and passengers, the accessibility of the airport and the projected course of the weather, according to Anthony Black, spokesman for Atlanta-based Delta.

"Our goal is to get as many of our passengers out of the city as long as the conditions remain operable," he said.

Other airlines considered the conditions operable longer. American flew its last plane out at 1 p.m. Sunday. And US Airways flew two-thirds of its schedule Sunday, with its last plane departing at 1:30 p.m.

"We made the best decision we could based on the information we had," said spokeswoman Amy Kudwa.

Roy Williams, director of aviation at the New Orleans airport, who stayed at his post through the hurricane, said the facility was open to humanitarian and other crucial flights but that it could be weeks before normal air traffic resumed, even though the runways are dry, and damage was limited to a new section of the airport, where the hurricane sheared off the roof.

Frank Miller, director of the Pensacola Regional Airport in Florida, said it took 24 hours to close the Pensacola airport before Hurricane Ivan last year — and speculated that New Orleans might well have needed a similar amount of prep time.

"Ivan came in early on a Thursday morning, and we closed our airport at 8 a.m. Wednesday to give us time to prepare the airport," he said. Loading docks had to be closed, gate arms removed, the facility locked down so that it did not become a haven for refugees.

"From the time we closed to the time we reopened, we were shut down for nine days," he said.

Other transportation modes also cleared out of New Orleans at least 24 hours before the hurricane hit.

Amtrak had no choice; its tracks run through the city's levees. Once officials in Louisiana put the floodgates in place across the levees, said spokesman Marc Magliari, "we had no usable route in and out of the city."

As a result, the four lines that ended or originated in New Orleans are now leaving from other cities.

"Our primary priority now is making sure we account for and reach out to our employees and work with the freight railroads to ascertain the amount of danger to their infrastructure," Magliari said.

And Greyhound, which ended service in New Orleans late Saturday, said safety was its priority. "We operate as long as it's safe," said spokesperson Anna Folmnsbee.

Greyhound and its subsidiaries, she said, are coordinating with the Federal Emergency Management Agency to help evacuate residents in the affected Gulf Coast states.
raven
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9/2/2005  4:01 AM
Posted by Caseloads:

why cant some smart, non-selfish person ever run and get elected? does everyone get corrupted and/or dumbed down along the way?

Why are we still producing rockets and bombs while some people within our own countries die from starvation ?

Why politicians can still be elected while being accused of many crimes that would send simple human beings like you and jail straight to jail ?

Why do we still use gaz though we could use another energy source, relieving the pressure in the persic golfe and protecting ecology at the same time ?

Why do honest people that spend all their time working feel more and more robbed since it’s becoming easier to steal than to earn ?

Why can people make themselves explode to kill innocents just for a religion/cult that only makes a few people more and more powerful ?

Why are we still letting drugs traveling all over the world though it would be childishly simple to use satellites to locate production fields ?

I feel your pain guys, but I fear that state of mind is spreading further that your own borders.

TKF, Silver and others, you guys are doing the right thing by helping people as much as you can. Only thing that will make “evil” spread even further is if men of good do nothing.

Apologize for jacking that thread. Peace.



[Edited by - raven on 09-02-2005 04:08 AM]
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OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact
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