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Choosing JYD to waive is dumb! (IT'S OFFICIAL)
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islesfan
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8/15/2005  1:53 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Ok, some of your guys on this thread are really ridiculous. This was a fiscal move. YOU THINK THAT A FISCAL MOVE IS MADE BY A GM??? Nah man....this amnesty rule is for owners, not for GM's. All an owner will do is consider what a Gm and coach has to say. But at the end of the day it's HIS tax dollars. It was Isiah that was hinting towards everyone that he wanted to waive Houston. It has been said that Dolan was overriding that b/c of his loyalty to Houston. Isiaah could care less about Houston....none the less he here. Isiah could care less about Shandon Anderson. Use your brians and those two would have obviously been Isiah's choices. Plus you can't exclude that everyone, at this point, is trying to make sure Larry's happy. You KNOW what happens when he's unhappy.

Think!


dude, the Knicks would have saved more money by waiving Shandon Anderson's contract...what's your point? did you even consider that before you came up w/that theory of yours?


No, because he didn't use his brain like he said we weren't. Although most of us figured out that the fiscal outcome would have been similar.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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nyk4ever
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8/15/2005  1:54 PM
Posted by OAK:

I'm pissed off cuz JYD contributes to this team in many ways. He was a tough hardworking guy who PLAYS DEFENSE on the floor, and was a spark plug coming off the bench. On the bench, he not only did not complain or demand mins, he was a great cheer leader puming up the guys on the court and the garden.

In other words, a true team guy.

What can you say about Penny??? What does he contribute?

What does Penny do thats so bad? He was actually very efficient last year when he wasnt injured, he's still an excellent passer and is the Knicks BEST inbounder of the basketball. I'm not saying I love Penny Hardaway or anything but his contract is worth nearly 16 million dollars and can be used MUCH more freely in the trade for a good big man that Isiah is trying to make, JYDs doesn't offer you that option. If Pennys contract isn't traded then it's going to be Tim Thomas's and the one that isnt will run out.

I know your going to say "well if we're letting one of them run out anyway, why didn't we use the amnesty rule on them" Well, its simple, the Knicks have too many PFs and one of them needed to go. For all the people that say JYD is one of the few people who played defense, I'm going to play devils advocate. Everyone on this board seems to think Larry Brown is going to make all the players play defense so cutting JYD shouldn't matter if thats the case. David Lee too me is a JYD clone with a better offensive game and we really don't need JYDs energy anymore because Nate is a firecracker waiting to be lit once he enters the game. Rose brings a few rings to the Knicks and defense and hardwork, it's nice to have a winner on your team everynow and then and Rose brings that to the Knicks.




[Edited by - nyk4ever on 08-15-2005 1:56 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
fishmike
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8/15/2005  1:54 PM
nyk4ever: because it doesnt make sense. Does it ruin our future or our season? Of course not. But it doesnt make sense, and thats scary. When management makes bad moves, even small ones they tend to make other bad moves. There is no logic or common sense to this. The problem? We have management with no logic or common sense.

Now if that doesnt make you nervous what does?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
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8/15/2005  1:55 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Why do YOU think Isiah didn't waive Shandon?

Because he's stupid.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
rvhoss
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8/15/2005  1:56 PM
you guys are crazy.

TT and Penny are gone after THIS YEAR.
Rose and MoT are BETTER than JYD.
LEE = JYD with 1/10th the salary and he's young.
Ariza and Lee get more minutes (lee was buried on the bench at the 3 and 4)
JYD can now sign with anybody he wants (which will most likely be Toronto).

He's as expendable as any of our other PF's that aren't named Lee. Career averages of 6 pts and 6 boards? Come on man. Energy off the bench...that has been replaced by Nate, Lee and Reezy. Toughness and defense, Rose.

No matter how you look at it, if we couldn't release houston, this is the same as releasing anybody else not named shandon.

But it's not a sky is falling type of "bone head" move you guys are screaming...jeez...when did you see JYD coming into a game? Blowouts? I assure you, Between Rose and Sweets, playing time would have been limited.

Don't get me wrong, if it was in the name of fiscal responsibility, I would have waived the Shandon Contract (but do we even know if that is allowed?)

Houston, appearently, is playing this year in some capacity or he's retiring and taking a front office position.

But JYD was the least skilled of our PF's, so him going does not alter our chances for the future OR this year.

Waiving penny does nothing for our bottom line and eliminates a trading chip.

We know rose is starting based on brown's history with the san antonio coach (who LOVES rose).

all kool aid all the time.
simrud
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8/15/2005  1:56 PM
Lee at SF is ceritfied BS.

He might have gotten away with it in summer league, but if you think that he can guard NBA swing players you are out of your mind.

Lee is a banger who plays inside. He gets offensive rebounds, and uses his quickness advantage over slower bigs to around them for skills finishes at the rim and he dunks when he gets free.

He is a PF thru and tru.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
rvhoss
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8/15/2005  1:56 PM
who the hell is this guy?
Posted by islesfan:

So much for expiring contracts being such great trade assets. Isiah's given up not 1 but 2 contracts totaling $14M+ for absolutely nothing.

Aren't you guys getting a little tired of Isiah disrespecting you and pretending that Knicks fans know nothing about basketball? The fact that he's mentioning that JYD is going to retire is a slap in the face of all Knicks fans. Like we don't know that it makes the waiving of JYD even worse if that is the case.

This is pathetic. Shandon was the only contract worth waiving since he was already gone. Now Isiah has just compounded that mistake with another one. Isiah is an idiot plain and simple.


all kool aid all the time.
NYKBocker
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8/15/2005  1:57 PM
While I don't agree with the move to use the amnesty rule on JYD, I prefer Penny, I can't beleive the all the negativity today. We wanted to trim the PF conglemorate and Zeke has done that. I believe Zeke asked LB who he prefers of JYD or Rose because both have contracts longer than MoT. LB just liked Rose better. No biggie.
fishmike
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8/15/2005  1:57 PM
What does Penny do thats so bad?
how about quit coming to work? Where was he last year? He hurt his hammy 20 games into and seemed to show up when he felt like it. The last month of the season he was "rehabbing" but was never so much as on the bench. He's a malcontent, its been documented.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TheloniusMonk
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8/15/2005  1:57 PM
Posted by fishmike:

TheloniusMonk.. not exactly a well thought out post. You said its a fiscal call not made by the GM? Ok... so the Knicks would save MORE money by waiving Shandon, Penny, Mo T or obviously Houston. If the plan was to waive JYD than using the rule on Shandon and just cutting JYD or buying him out makes more sense.

Put your foot in your mouth, none of your arguements make a shred of sense. Not from a fiscal standpoint, not from a roster standpoint, not from a basketball standpoint. Its just more mismanagement.

You seem to have this all thought out. I bet, as a basketball mind, you are more equipt to make decisions than the people in the front office for the Knicks.....Brown included, because he also plays a factor in roster decisions from thius point on.

Isiah was obviously trying to waive Houston...Dolan has a repore with him. Obviously HOUSTON would be the one to waive. Houston has NEVER said he was retiring. Secondly, Isiah and Shandon are enemies. Why not waive him? Lastly, Brown doesn't like players like Mo, Houston (at this point) and any other player that doesn't defend. Look at larry's career...JYD is the perfect player that he's like to have on the bench for matchups. Now look at Isiah....Isiah's comments "this is the first time I have been identified with a weak defensive team" What does this tell you? Isiah likes defensive minded players. JYD fits the discription. That takes care of two people who would obviously like another defender on the team.......

Who does that leave?


'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
simrud
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8/15/2005  1:59 PM
Taylor sucks and he should have been waived or better yet never traded for. He should never get any play in time over Sweetney or Frye or Rose. Which puts 4 bigs in front of him including James.

JYD we could have actually traed at some point. Taylor is unfreakin movable.

Idiots who liked the Mo Taylor trade manup!!!
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
nyk4ever
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8/15/2005  1:59 PM
Posted by fishmike:

nyk4ever: because it doesnt make sense. Does it ruin our future or our season? Of course not. But it doesnt make sense, and thats scary. When management makes bad moves, even small ones they tend to make other bad moves. There is no logic or common sense to this. The problem? We have management with no logic or common sense.

Now if that doesnt make you nervous what does?


Fish, I know what your saying but I honestly don't understand how this doesnt make sense. Is it that far-fetched that Isiah thinks that Malik and Mo T are better players then JYD, which they are. That TT, Penny offer more Big Trade flexbility then JYD, which they do. And finally that, waiving Shandon wasn't a option because the Knicks wanted another roster spot. I happen to think its the latter and that it came down to Mo T, Malik, and JYD and JYD was the worst player out of the 3. Just MO.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
islesfan
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8/15/2005  1:59 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

who the hell is this guy?
Posted by islesfan:

So much for expiring contracts being such great trade assets. Isiah's given up not 1 but 2 contracts totaling $14M+ for absolutely nothing.

Aren't you guys getting a little tired of Isiah disrespecting you and pretending that Knicks fans know nothing about basketball? The fact that he's mentioning that JYD is going to retire is a slap in the face of all Knicks fans. Like we don't know that it makes the waiving of JYD even worse if that is the case.

This is pathetic. Shandon was the only contract worth waiving since he was already gone. Now Isiah has just compounded that mistake with another one. Isiah is an idiot plain and simple.



Obviously you don't recognize me. I'm not in Isiah's behind where your head resides.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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8/15/2005  1:59 PM
Don't get me wrong, if it was in the name of fiscal responsibility, I would have waived the Shandon Contract (but do we even know if that is allowed?)
yes its allowed. The Suns used it on Eisley's deal and he's been off the team for a year.

So its a stupid move. Here's a newsflash: Bad GMs make stupid moves. More to follow...
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
OAK
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8/15/2005  2:00 PM
They could have waived Shandon's contract now, and if needed waive someone else later.

Between a rotten apple and a perfectly edible apple, I'd throw away the rotten one. That's my analogy (shandon's contract and JYD's).
TheloniusMonk
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8/15/2005  2:00 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Why do YOU think Isiah didn't waive Shandon?

Because he's stupid.

extremely intelligent answer Isles. Didn't know you had it in you.


'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
nyballer
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8/15/2005  2:00 PM
I don't care if it was Dolan or Isiah, it was a dumb call by whoever made it.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
TMS
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8/15/2005  2:01 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by TMS:


dude, the Knicks would have saved more money by waiving Shandon Anderson's contract...what's your point? did you even consider that before you came up w/that theory of yours?

Yup. Didn't say it makes sense. It's funny how everyone reads the papers and feel that they are more informed than the people in-house. At the end of the day, in the case of this Amnesty rule, it has been said a million times that owners will have more to do with this rule than a regular situation.

Why do YOU think that all of this time Isiah has been talking of Houston in the past tense and now all of a sudden Dolan and Brown are speaking of their support for Houston and Isiah was saying nothing? Also....Isiah Thomas' most hated Knick of all time...Shandon wasn't waived. Why do YOU think Isiah didn't waive Shandon?


you want my honest opinion at this point? i think Isiah plans on signing that worthless scrub Diop & since he needed an extra roster spot, didn't want to look like a total buffoon by waiving Mo Taylor, & didn't want to give up any expiring contracts either, so he had to retain both Penny & TT...keeping Allan Houston was Jim Dolan's call, so the only other option left was to waive either JYD or Malik Rose for him...an idiotic move created by the other idiotic moves he's made to set himself up for this to begin with along w/some of the other idiotic moves he's about to make as the Knicks' GM...what does it matter anymore anyway, because he already looks like a total buffoon at this point in most Knicks' fans eyes.

& yes, i do realize he's made some good moves as Knicks GM, but the bad ones are starting to far outweigh the good ones in my eyes...anyone who's known me for longer than some of the newbs around here know i used to be a very stauch supporter of IT...but there comes a time to assess his moves for what they've brought us...Ariza, Nate Rob, David Lee = good draft picks...free agent signings = horrible
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
rvhoss
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8/15/2005  2:01 PM
yeah, he contributed so much that we won only 33 games.
Posted by OAK:

I'm pissed off cuz JYD contributes to this team in many ways. He was a tough hardworking guy who PLAYS DEFENSE on the floor, and was a spark plug coming off the bench. On the bench, he not only did not complain or demand mins, he was a great cheer leader puming up the guys on the court and the garden.

In other words, a true team guy.

What can you say about Penny??? What does he contribute?


all kool aid all the time.
simrud
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8/15/2005  2:01 PM
Who really gives a flying f@ck who was responsible? The point is it was DUMB!
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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