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franco12
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8/10/2005  3:05 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Supposing we did nothing, WHO WOULD START AT CENTER FOR US??

Channing Frye at 40 mpg? He probably can't stay on the floor that long so who would be our center? Frye and Sundov?

There is Stephen Hunter who has gotten a ton of offers, surprised he hasn't signed.

You're forgetting about our own Jackie Brown.

Then, there was that nobody that Miami signed that Briggs made such a huff about us loosing out on- if not for JJ, he could have been ours.

I'll admit that JJ sucks- he is a 7 foot stiff, but 7 foot stiffs get paid to play in this league.
AUTOADVERT
nyballer
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8/10/2005  3:07 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
This $5 mill has NO impact on our cap.

He'd still be the lowest paid knick starter in 2 years.
exactly (or one of the lowest paid)
let's not understate how much he is making. he will make 7 mil by the time his contract is up, 6 mil in 07 when houston/mo taylor are up - the year of some great FA's and the year in which we could have potentially had cap room. for a 2 year deal worth the MLE I would have been fine with it - in fact I don't think its a terrible deal, but I think we overpaid him and that his contract is too long.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
fishmike
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8/10/2005  3:09 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Supposing we did nothing, WHO WOULD START AT CENTER FOR US??

Channing Frye at 40 mpg? He probably can't stay on the floor that long so who would be our center? Frye and Sundov?
Start Frye, yes. Then bring guys like JYD, Rose, Mo T, Sweetney, whoever to play there. It speeds up Frye's development and pumps up the value of whoever is getting the extra minutes.

What happened last year when Nazr was traded? Both Sweetney AND KT benefited. Sweet got more minutes and KT's value went up because we showcased he could still play some center.

To me that helped us out a lot.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
simrud
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8/10/2005  3:11 PM
We are obviously not planning to have cap space in 2 years or ever, how many times does IT have to say it?

Everybody knows where I stand on that issue, but this whole thread is beating a dead horse.

IT and Dolan feel they don't have to rebuild with capsapce, rather just the draft and trades. I don't agree, but thats what they are doing.

It blew up last year, lets see if this yar with a great coach we get a better result.

One way or another, forget about cap space ever as long as IT is the GM, or better yet, as long as Dolan owns the team.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
fishmike
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8/10/2005  3:16 PM
it all comes back to the orginal topic, and thats yes... this was a bad signing. We need JJ, he will play a good roll for us, but money and contract legth matter, and JJ's deal is a bad one.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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8/10/2005  3:22 PM
BUT, not the WORST of the off season...I think Philly got kept out of the top spot because they had THREE.

JJ is nothing in comparison IMHO.
all kool aid all the time.
djsunyc
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8/10/2005  3:27 PM
the final #'s finally came in...jerome james, 8 years $92.7 million with a $29.53 million balloon payment in 06/07.

IF it was up to me, i would do something like fish said, throw frye at center. and sign someone like dale davis for 2 years $3 mil.

will we win a ton of games? nope, but it gives you options.

1. heaven forbid frye actually can play and hold the fort at the C spot.

2. we can get by with our 18 headed PF monster at the C spot for now.

3. and it gives us flexibility to go out and get someone later b/c we're not tied up with james for 5 years.

with that said, i don't mind james being here, i mean the...hold up...jj just exercised his option for 2013/14 - it's now 9 years at $92.75 mil. he'll give us a good 15-20 mins which is 15-20 mins MORE than we had last year. the question though, will it be worth it?
Marv
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8/10/2005  3:31 PM
dj!!!!

you're really finding your comedic voice, you're turning out to be a bill simmons type with a little lang whitaker thrown in!!

keep it up dude!!
djsunyc
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8/10/2005  3:33 PM
Posted by Marv:

dj!!!!

you're really finding your comedic voice, you're turning out to be a bill simmons type with a little lang whitaker thrown in!!

keep it up dude!!

btw, the baloon payment was needed so the suns don't match

lang whitaker...i remember him, what an awesome 2nd basemen

[Edited by - djsunyc on 08/10/2005 15:34:27]
franco12
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8/10/2005  3:36 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Killa4luv:

Supposing we did nothing, WHO WOULD START AT CENTER FOR US??

Channing Frye at 40 mpg? He probably can't stay on the floor that long so who would be our center? Frye and Sundov?
Start Frye, yes. Then bring guys like JYD, Rose, Mo T, Sweetney, whoever to play there. It speeds up Frye's development and pumps up the value of whoever is getting the extra minutes.

What happened last year when Nazr was traded? Both Sweetney AND KT benefited. Sweet got more minutes and KT's value went up because we showcased he could still play some center.

To me that helped us out a lot.

Actually- I think having JJ helps Frye's development- Frye can't stay in a summer league game and you're going to throw him in the 5 as a starter?

Talk about crushing one's confidence. You can complain about JJ playing 15 min a game- that's probably double what Frye would do as a starting 5 for us.

Having JJ as the 5 is potentially going to help someone like Sweets as well- as long as he can occupy space and keep our guys from getting man handled by bigger players.

How long would Frye last against shaq? 2 mins?
Against Yao? 3-4 mins.

And that is going to help his development?

I want Frye off the bench as a 4/5 option- just like Crawford is a combo guard off the bench.
jaydh
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8/10/2005  3:50 PM
Posted by nyballer:
Posted by Bonn1997:
This $5 mill has NO impact on our cap.

He'd still be the lowest paid knick starter in 2 years.
exactly (or one of the lowest paid)
let's not understate how much he is making. he will make 7 mil by the time his contract is up, 6 mil in 07 when houston/mo taylor are up - the year of some great FA's and the year in which we could have potentially had cap room. for a 2 year deal worth the MLE I would have been fine with it - in fact I don't think its a terrible deal, but I think we overpaid him and that his contract is too long.

do the math, there is no way we would have had cap room, and if we did, it would only be around 5-6mil which is what the MLE is anyways.
jaydh
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8/10/2005  3:55 PM
Posted by franco12:

Actually- I think having JJ helps Frye's development- Frye can't stay in a summer league game and you're going to throw him in the 5 as a starter?

Talk about crushing one's confidence. You can complain about JJ playing 15 min a game- that's probably double what Frye would do as a starting 5 for us.


And that is going to help his development?

I want Frye off the bench as a 4/5 option- just like Crawford is a combo guard off the bench.

exactly!!! some people think the best way to develop a player is to give him as many minutes as possible. thats not always the case.
simrud
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8/10/2005  4:02 PM
We would be under the cap if we traded away Marbury at some point within the next two years, I think that's what most mean when they say in 2 years we could have had cap space w/out expensive signigns like the JJ one.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
rvhoss
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8/10/2005  4:04 PM
there aren't that many players better than marbury and they won't be coming to new york if marbs isn't here.

They'll just be a super star on a crappy team (see iverson and currently the big ticket in minny)



[Edited by - rvhoss on 08/10/2005 16:05:18]
all kool aid all the time.
MS
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8/10/2005  4:15 PM
Why do people insist on being ****ing stupid, Jerome James sucks, he played good in one playoffs series, he hasn't established himself, he just a lazy foot dump until he proves otherwise......

If he wasn't playing ball he would be on welfare sitting on his fat ass.....

Isiah got smoked again as usual, and are you really giving him that much credit for bringing in brown; i am excited about him put throwing him the richest deal in NBA history had a lot to do with it......

And Frye doesn't look like an All-Star out there either, James can't stay in games because of foul trouble, and Frye can't go one summer league game without commiting 6 fouls......

Hopefully larry can do some incredible things!
jaydh
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8/10/2005  4:23 PM
Posted by MS:

If he wasn't playing ball he would be on welfare sitting on his fat ass.....

as would most of the NBA if they werent playing ball.
fishmike
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8/10/2005  4:24 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

IF it was up to me, i would do something like fish said, throw frye at center. and sign someone like dale davis for 2 years $3 mil.

will we win a ton of games? nope, but it gives you options.

1. heaven forbid frye actually can play and hold the fort at the C spot.

2. we can get by with our 18 headed PF monster at the C spot for now.

3. and it gives us flexibility to go out and get someone later b/c we're not tied up with james for 5 years.
thank you... thats all I am saying. Its hard for some to understand... I get that. I thought we just drafted our center of the future, just wondering why we would spend $30mm to lock up a guy like James who we promised the starting job to.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  4:39 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:

IF it was up to me, i would do something like fish said, throw frye at center. and sign someone like dale davis for 2 years $3 mil.

will we win a ton of games? nope, but it gives you options.

1. heaven forbid frye actually can play and hold the fort at the C spot.

2. we can get by with our 18 headed PF monster at the C spot for now.

3. and it gives us flexibility to go out and get someone later b/c we're not tied up with james for 5 years.
thank you... thats all I am saying. Its hard for some to understand... I get that. I thought we just drafted our center of the future, just wondering why we would spend $30mm to lock up a guy like James who we promised the starting job to.
again, we're NOT tied up with James for 5 years. He can be bought out like Shandon after about 2 years if he doesn't work out. Think of it as a 2 year $10 mil contract with a smaller buyout option than Shandon's contract if for some reason you're obsessed with contract length.
franco12
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8/10/2005  4:40 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:

IF it was up to me, i would do something like fish said, throw frye at center. and sign someone like dale davis for 2 years $3 mil.

will we win a ton of games? nope, but it gives you options.

1. heaven forbid frye actually can play and hold the fort at the C spot.

2. we can get by with our 18 headed PF monster at the C spot for now.

3. and it gives us flexibility to go out and get someone later b/c we're not tied up with james for 5 years.
thank you... thats all I am saying. Its hard for some to understand... I get that. I thought we just drafted our center of the future, just wondering why we would spend $30mm to lock up a guy like James who we promised the starting job to.

I doubt we promised him the starting job.

But he can look at our roster and figure that if he shows up, he's the only center the team has and consequently will likely start.

JJ is a back up center, but he is going to be starting with us probably for the next year or two because we are that thin up front. For years 3-5 on his contract, he is going to get paid to be there and be a 12th man, hopefully. I don't think its that horrible as to be rated the worse deal of the summer.
franco12
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8/10/2005  4:42 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:

IF it was up to me, i would do something like fish said, throw frye at center. and sign someone like dale davis for 2 years $3 mil.

will we win a ton of games? nope, but it gives you options.

1. heaven forbid frye actually can play and hold the fort at the C spot.

2. we can get by with our 18 headed PF monster at the C spot for now.

3. and it gives us flexibility to go out and get someone later b/c we're not tied up with james for 5 years.
thank you... thats all I am saying. Its hard for some to understand... I get that. I thought we just drafted our center of the future, just wondering why we would spend $30mm to lock up a guy like James who we promised the starting job to.

I would have loved to have the MLE to sign someone that gets cut a la the houston rule- but, no one good is going to come to the Knicks.

Finley is heading to Phoenix or Miami. Who else is getting cut? Derek Anderson is going to LA. We were probably lucky to get James.
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