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let me put some reality into this
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Nalod
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8/3/2005  11:05 AM
Posted by simrud:

Core you are missing the point man.

The way you talk is how I and I'm sure every other Knick fan talks to NON-Knick fans.

If you are talking to some Boston or Net fan, then what you are sayin is the right way to go.

But when we are discussing things amongts us Knick fans, why do we need to sugarcoat and pretend that we believe in things that simply arent real?

[Edited by - simrud on 08/03/2005 10:06:35]

I guess the term "preaching to the choir"! might be applicable!

I don't think he got the point of my message. There was satire in it.

I guess there are now different levels of Knick fans. WE have the Left wing "rebuildists". These guys want a rebuild and want Isiah to prove himself first with results before offering total support. Key word is "total"! Might have been real upset with coacing moves prior to Larry, and are result driven. The "Centrists" kinda go with the flow and accept Isiah to a certain point. Seeing the potential as it unfolds, support Isiah thru most but not ready go to the NBA store and load up on JJ jerseys. Then the Right wing. This group loves Isiah and loves the cocoon like love that Isiah brings. Cares less about wins and losses than the potential of potential of potential. Off season is more important than the games themseves. Loves trades, hates euros, and is very forgiving even when we lose. Gets excited about deals not even thought about! On the further right, are the splinter group fanatics who see all others as infidels! There world is black or white (not racial, just viewpoint) with no gray area. Example: Isiah is not to be ever called out on anymoves regardless of its effect. Uses layden as baseline for covienent beat down and justification even when Isiah does wrong. (its ALWAYS better than it was with LAYDEN!!!!!!) Won't ever see Layden as the creater of the Marbs trade! (old testimate vs. New?. Similar to not seeing some Pagan traits in some Christian holidays! Still sees Santa Claus as real).
THey believe when they die they will have 70 virgins and eternal season tickets! THe rest of us will go to net games in brooklyn!
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simrud
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8/3/2005  11:17 AM
hahahahaahaha

Nalod you are the man.

I wish I could put things in a funny way like that with less confrontation man.

What you said is basically how I feel about whats going on right now.

You did however forgot to mention one category, even though it only has one person, Dido. I havent come up with a proper moniker for it, but insane comes to mind lol.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
BasketballJones
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8/3/2005  11:19 AM
Would it bee too sacrilegious to suggest that we're taking this whole subject a bit too seriously?
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Nalod
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8/3/2005  11:21 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Would it bee too sacrilegious to suggest that we're taking this whole subject a bit too seriously?

You would be completely in line in my book to say so!

That is basically my point!
Nalod
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8/3/2005  11:24 AM
Posted by simrud:

hahahahaahaha

Nalod you are the man.

I wish I could put things in a funny way like that with less confrontation man.

What you said is basically how I feel about whats going on right now.

You did however forgot to mention one category, even though it only has one person, Dido. I havent come up with a proper moniker for it, but insane comes to mind lol.

Dido is "Skit-zoe", so he falls into many different catagories! I think he is either in IraQ, hunting us all down one by one, or the Good Humor boys at bellview have him in his dinner whites and comfortably numb.
Bonn1997
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8/3/2005  11:26 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Allanfan20:
I'm pretty sure we are going to sweep Boston and Chicago this year. And the lakers will not win here.

You smoking or somethin' bro? Chicago is on the rise of being a future contender and if they can retain Ty Chandler and they continue to improve from last season (They'll be fine with or w/o Curry) then we'll have no way of stopping them. Their backcourt is better than ours, with Heinrick and Ben Gordon and Duhon, and just having Chandler makes their frontcourt better than ours. We WILL NOT sweep Chicago. We can maybe split with them, but you have nothing to prove that as of yet. Oh by the way, if Kwame turns out to be even at Chris Mihms level, then the Lakers will kill us in everyway, especially under Phil Jackson. And trust me dude, I'm not a Knick pessimist. I just think a lot of people are overrating this team, just like how I said people were overrating us last year, before pre season started.
What are you smokin, Curry had more to do with the Bulls' success last season than any of those rookies. Chandler? If the Bulls fail to get Curry back, then they will take a major step back. Just ask Briggs about a perimeter team with small players.
I think that's a good point. The Bulls looked unimpressive without Curry. His absence completely changes their offense and really hurts them.
crzymdups
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8/3/2005  11:27 AM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by simrud:

Core you are missing the point man.

The way you talk is how I and I'm sure every other Knick fan talks to NON-Knick fans.

If you are talking to some Boston or Net fan, then what you are sayin is the right way to go.

But when we are discussing things amongts us Knick fans, why do we need to sugarcoat and pretend that we believe in things that simply arent real?

[Edited by - simrud on 08/03/2005 10:06:35]

I guess the term "preaching to the choir"! might be applicable!

I don't think he got the point of my message. There was satire in it.

I guess there are now different levels of Knick fans. WE have the Left wing "rebuildists". These guys want a rebuild and want Isiah to prove himself first with results before offering total support. Key word is "total"! Might have been real upset with coacing moves prior to Larry, and are result driven. The "Centrists" kinda go with the flow and accept Isiah to a certain point. Seeing the potential as it unfolds, support Isiah thru most but not ready go to the NBA store and load up on JJ jerseys. Then the Right wing. This group loves Isiah and loves the cocoon like love that Isiah brings. Cares less about wins and losses than the potential of potential of potential. Off season is more important than the games themseves. Loves trades, hates euros, and is very forgiving even when we lose. Gets excited about deals not even thought about! On the further right, are the splinter group fanatics who see all others as infidels! There world is black or white (not racial, just viewpoint) with no gray area. Example: Isiah is not to be ever called out on anymoves regardless of its effect. Uses layden as baseline for covienent beat down and justification even when Isiah does wrong. (its ALWAYS better than it was with LAYDEN!!!!!!) Won't ever see Layden as the creater of the Marbs trade! (old testimate vs. New?. Similar to not seeing some Pagan traits in some Christian holidays! Still sees Santa Claus as real).
THey believe when they die they will have 70 virgins and eternal season tickets! THe rest of us will go to net games in brooklyn!

This is the best post ever. This should be saved in somewhere on the site.
¿ △ ?
simrud
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8/3/2005  11:30 AM
The Bulls really missed Curry's offense.

They were a really good defensive team that lacked in the scoring department.

In Curry they lost arguably their best offensive weapon in the half court set, at least in the stating lineup.

Couple that with a banged up Gordon, who was their only other true offensive option, and they really lacked in scoring.

That said, a team with many offensive players and poor team D is really not a good fit for Curry.

I think in terms of his impat on the game he should be compared to Z in a sense that he does not help the defense but does provide a scorig punch, except his D is much wose then even Z's, who at least blocks shots.

Rick Smith comes to mind, too.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
tomverve
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8/3/2005  11:43 AM
I've only skimmed this thread so far, so forgive me if the following point has been raised.

In general, I think it's silly to make claims like "in order to win x amount of games, these players need to put up these stats." The only statistic that is really going to be heavily correlated with win percentage is the average, per game point differential (ppg scored - ppg allowed) that a team puts up as a whole. (I can't give any references just off the top of my head, but there is a pretty reliable formula by which one can predict a team's win % within a small degree of error by using the team's per game point differential.) So as a hypothetical example (just making these numbers up for now), we could say that e.g. the Knicks will probably win close to 41 games if they outscore the opposition by an average of 4ppg.

The point is that there are a whole lot of ways that NY could put up a 4ppg point differential. A hefty chunk of it could come from team defense, which is not easily quantified by box scores. The actual ppg scored by the Knicks could come from any number of players-- if Frye only scores 9ppg, then the difference from Briggs' target of 14ppg could be made up quite easily, e.g. if Marbury, Crawford, TT, Ariza, Richardson each raise their ppg by 1 point per game (or Ariza raises his ppg by 3 and TT by 2, etc.) It's silly to say that certain players in particular will HAVE to put up certain numbers in order to post X amount of wins.
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/3/2005  11:44 AM
[quote]
Posted by simrud:

Core I'v never read a post from you relating to basketball and we both been ont he forum for years. Its the same old post every time.

Then maybe you should read all the threads. I won't dignify that comment with any more of a response.

Used to be you just bashed Layden and every player we had, just like everybody else really, me included. We were on the same side of the fence back then.

That was because the team needed changes with management, coaching staff and players. I had utter disdain for LayDown, the face of that era.

Yet even then all you used to say is Layden sucks, not why, not a single reason given for it event thouh there were so many.

That is a lie. I won't even sugar coat it. The archives speak for themselves. If you claim to have read my posts from back then, you would even be making statements like that. Again, the archives prove who's right and who's wrong on this- too easy.

Nowdays you got another mantra going, same post every time again, we got IT he is god, all he does is holy, no mistakes are ever made, blab balbh.

If you're gonna quote me, then do so with some level of accuracy. I am optimistic about where Isiah (yeah I call him Messiah, and?) will propel this team. You obviously don't READ my posts. It sounds like you have a problem with folks being hopeful and optimistic, so I guess you're about to have big problems!

Once again not a single sentence that relates to basketball. Not even on game threads. It makes me woner if you even watch games, or do you just get a kick out of just being associated with an entity and foaming at your mouth that it is the greatest thign ever.

Responding to this would only be an insult to my intelligence. You sound like a goddamned fool.

Then you convininently disapier when the Knicks blow last year, not standing up to your own hype, not a sound from you.

I went on sabbatical BEFORE the losing streak, son. The Knicks were on top of the Atlantic at that time. Nuff' said about that, though.

Now you show up and throw around acusations of half the forum not being true Knickf fans, when your phony ass wasnt even here when it hurt the most last year.

See above. All that hot air for nothing. Plus, the time that hurt more was the LayDown era, fella. Recognize and recollect. I'm not one of these newbies, son.

And don't say you were here during the Layden era, it was easy back then, everybody had low expectaions, it is much harder to deal with 33 wins when you are expeced to go to the 2nd round after winnnin you godawful division.

I just said it. Gotta prob wit it? Too goddamn bad.

Maybe I take a dislike to your posts cause you soudn like a preacher, I just can't sand teleevgelists and people who preach in general

...and I can't stand Knicks haters and idiots who don't know the meaning of a spellcheck. I deal with it, though.

, all them super religous types who gave Bush the election in bible belt, but one thing that is for sure is that you are yet to have a post that actually deals with normal basketball discussion man.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of having to embarrass your ass, you did a remarkable job all on your own. I don't need to prove anything to faceless haters, duke. I am at the games, at the MSG events supporting my team along with other REAL fans. Where the hell were you? LOL The only time I post about stuff besides B-Ball is when I have to discipline jaw-jackers like you.

Now hopefully we can move on now. Don't bring it if you don't want it brought to you.

HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
simrud
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8/3/2005  11:49 AM
Want to blow some more steam out of your ears thre tough guy?

Once again you faile to make a single basketball related point on this thread.

I'm done with you man, you are obviously just dumb and have no knowlegde of the game, otherwise you would have showed it by now.

That don't make you not a fan, you may be the most dedicated fan in the world. That juts makes you someone to whom talkinb about ball is a waste of time.

You are like a super commited casual fan who just likes the team but really doesnt know much about ball.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Nalod
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8/3/2005  12:02 PM
We got spell checker here?

Whoa guys!

This is suppose to be fun!

I think you both made your points.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/3/2005  12:03 PM
Posted by simrud:

Core you are missing the point man.

The way you talk is how I and I'm sure every other Knick fan talks to NON-Knick fans.

Some of the hateful stuff I read are from "knicks fans" that sound like haters. I handle matters accordingly.

If you are talking to some Boston or Net fan, then what you are sayin is the right way to go.

That's what some sound like. Especially when all they mention is how good the rest of the league is compared to us.

But when we are discussing things amongts us Knick fans, why do we need to sugarcoat and pretend that we believe in things that simply arent real?

No need to sugarcoat, things shouldn't be made to appear any better or any worse than they really are. That's all I'm saying. Good fortunes for our Knicks are on the horizon and very real!!
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Stevo718
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8/3/2005  12:14 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

we won 30 games last year
we lost our best frontcourt player
we drafted channing frye--i cannot see a scenario where a 6-11 245 pd PF/C wont get 30+ minutes on this team, atleast i HOPE not

for us to get OUT of the lottery Sweetney and Frye need to average 14 points

im not high on jerome james--he will help and show flashes, but to expect a metamorphis from 4 pts 4 reb+ 4 fouls in 15-16 minutes is nuts. He showed flashes in one playoff series??? 2 double doubles in 162 games>

thats it we need to PUSH sweetney and Frye we need to see what they have now, no baby play 4 year college players are an oddity--if 20 YO chris Bosh puts up 17+8 14+7 from Frye is acceptable and needed.

IF we dont get this, we will win 30 games

thats it in a nutshell if we dont get
14+9 from sweetney in 28 or so
and 14+7 from Frye in 32 or so

expect a 12th palce finish and a 8-9 seed in the lottery

Isiah himself said Frye needed some work, with that I say Frye averages no more than 26 minutes this season.
Now add the 22-26 minutes James will play and that easily covers the 48 minutes at the C position.
Then you have 48 minutes at PF to divide among Sweets/Rose/Taylor/JYD/Lee. I see Sweets and Rose as our consistent PF's.

I think having JJ/Frye at C alone VS Nazir/Kurt at C is a big difference. Nazir was slow with stone hands, Kurt stop playing defense two years ago. How many blocks did both of these guys combine for? How many trips to the free throw line did these guys combine for? JJ will provide SO MUCH more of a defensive presence in 20+ minutes than Nazir and Kurt ever did combined.
When did Nazir ever post up? When did Kurt ever post-up? I don't understand why you are setting point requirements for Frye and Sweets because as long as Sweets is capable of creating his own shot here and there, that's already one up on Kurt or Nazir. I think Frye is already an improvement over Nazir. And although JJ won't put up as good numbers as Kurt he will make the team better just because of his size in the middle. And JJ/Frye/Sweets will all go to the free throw line more often. Our offense will come mostly from our backcourt. So as long as our BIGS are providing high percentage shots and plenty of trips to the free throw line I don;t care how many points they average.
Oh man I can't wait until the season starts and we see how much better things run without Kurt on our team. Theres a reason why every year Kurt is involved in trade rumors and it's not because of his former nice contract.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/3/2005  12:14 PM
Posted by simrud:

Want to blow some more steam out of your ears thre tough guy?
No need, fella. I am AOK.

Once again you faile to make a single basketball related point on this thread.

Once again, you fail to recall that you started this exchange, I am just willing to finish it.

I'm done with you man, you are obviously just dumb and have no knowlegde of the game, otherwise you would have showed it by now.

And all of a sudden you are omniscient. SInce your vocab seems not to extend beyond words like "dumb", then maybe you should check out the meanings of words like "ignorant", and define yourself. Again, I need not prove anything to anyone, especially one like you that I can effortlessly dispatch with just a few words.

That don't make you not a fan, you may be the most dedicated fan in the world. That juts makes you someone to whom talkinb about ball is a waste of time.

Look in the mirror and repeat that 5 times. DOes it make you feel any better?

You are like a super commited casual fan who just likes the team but really doesnt know much about ball.

..and I take it that you are just someone who just doesn't know much, period (if you think that what you said is true) .
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Nalod
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8/3/2005  12:26 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
Posted by Nalod:


You Don King? Wpw! By the way, We won 33 games last season. The Messiah has yet to deliver.

Let's see if we get 33 wins with the new coach that Isiah DID deliver. Give Isiah the some of that never-ending slack you always gave Scott LayDown, Nedyal.

While we are improving, the reality is we got a long way, and if the path to rightousness is a true one, it will be filled with some painful growth pains.

I'd believe we all agree with this; it's obvious.

And while your sermonizing and calling out those who speak some truth, some concerns, and speak their minds as unbelivers, some of your rants sound almost (dido) like your a half crazed moonie cult follower ready to strike down the infidel whom might have a differnt take!

Nah, all that it is, is my opinion. You still have that chip on your shoulder from being struck down years ago, it seems. Let it go, Nalod. It'll be okay. I'll still call out those who need to hear the truth, if that makes you feeel any better.

Your propoganda rants are up there with the best of them!

No propaganda necessary- I just tell it like it is. It's a "rant" when it's something you don't agree with? LMAO

Real fans ALWAYS have hope that their team will get better (and not afraid to say it), and smash venom back in the hateful snakes that spew it.
I thought that I got that through to you years ago, but I guess you want to try and impress the lil' newbies or something.

No matter, the things I said needed changing, for the most part, (during the time your former backwards namesake was runing the show) have been made. We're clearly moving up in the world as a team again. We have a REAL Prez/GM who thinks with his own brain, NOT Dolan's. We're getting players more along the lines of having Talent & Fire than the cornballs we had before. This is another truth that someone like you would only see as a rant, I guess.


I root for the NEW YORK KNICKS, and don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. Again. it's what real fans do.

HARDCOREKNICKSFAN

Reverabd Hardcore, YOu speak from the heart!

Perhaps I am not a true believer, perhaps I am hating inside after years of repression, years of Knick depression, years of not confessin, and years of being taught a lesson!

The false prophets of years gone by! The Haywoods, the McAdoos, the Websters, the Ray and Michael Rays, the flirtation with the great Bernard, the Rory's, The Wilkins, the unsupported Ewings, and the great drought of Layden!

Oh, I want to believe, I so do, but my vaneer of hate only masks the pain deep.

Many here are too young and see ONLY the glory days as Ewing, but once upon atime there was real magic, real respect, and real glorification! We was respected and inflicted greatness upon others! This before free agents, and before dilution from expansion. I was just a wee child, but the bench mark set was substantial! The ancient gods of Reed, clyde, monroe, Bradley and Debussure are all well documented!

I was in Carter's underwear, just a todler when the Knicks won their last title. I want that past glory back, and with the changes the Knicks are making, it's a visible, tangible possibility wotrth rooting for.

Don't preach to me Rev. Hardcore with manical rage masked as undying love with wrath upon those that seek the truth thru question.

There's no truth or question in being pessimistic. I guess you're intimidated, but that's cool.

The REAL fan you call out is not by your definition alone, but to seek their own truth and path to rightousness.

I never said it was. I always say that's MY opinion regarding what a true fan is, and most sensible folks agree. There's no truth or righteousness in being a naysayer. Anyone ignorant enough to beleieve otherwise shouldn't even post here. I always stood by that, and you've always had an issue with it.

The crying, the begging, the whining you hear is the cry of help, the plea for better days ahead, and hope. We are the choosen ones, chosen to suffer the great sacrifice that we may one day lead to glory!

I know the difference between cries for better days and the plain old doomsday talk to which I am referring. You should too. We've been through this before.

Embrace the knick love, help those whom are weaker than you with not your wrath, but with knowlege and patience.

I do, but at the same time, I get tired of good discussions turning silly because of a few haters.

They seek the same thing as you! It is all real! Even Isles, in his own way seeks the path of glory. He is mearly mortal, just a man, a knick man as yourself, but one of many whom have been injury by the famine! They seek not to hate, but just a cure. Same as you!

The cure is here. The Knicks are getting better. Those who still harp on that "Knicks suck" attitude are the ones who get shot down by those who consider themselves real fans. Once again, you and I have discussed this before.

Amen

Hallelujah!


Tolerence for the unbelievers!

We could go on for ages..............and still not find the truth until we hoist banner!
eViL
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8/3/2005  12:33 PM
I like H-CORE!!! He's a tough talkin' mean posting machine. I like reading his posts and imagining Mr. T actually speaking the words - it's awesome... Simrud is cool too.

The board has been testy lately, huh? I've got just the thing to bring us all back into agreement:



Hey, TMS - keep your negative comments out of here...
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/3/2005  12:40 PM
Nalod, we HAVE gone on for ages!

Funny thing is, when we hoist that Championship banner, there will still be those who will post their problems with it.

I'm just glad the roster is more balanced than before, and that we have the players (and expiring contracts) to make another deal and further improve. Big Game James will surprise the doubters this year.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/3/2005  12:44 PM
Posted by eViL:

I like H-CORE!!! He's a tough talkin' mean posting machine. I like reading his posts and imagining Mr. T actually speaking the words - it's awesome... Simrud is cool too.

The board has been testy lately, huh? I've got just the thing to bring us all back into agreement:



Hey, TMS - keep your negative comments out of here...

LOL I got nothin but love for ya, eViL. The sentiment is much appreciated.

Esther Baxter can bring about World Peace!! Everything's all good now on this end.

Damn.. look at that badonkadonk!!!

Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Nalod
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8/3/2005  1:11 PM
Posted by eViL:

I like H-CORE!!! He's a tough talkin' mean posting machine. I like reading his posts and imagining Mr. T actually speaking the words - it's awesome... Simrud is cool too.

The board has been testy lately, huh? I've got just the thing to bring us all back into agreement:



Hey, TMS - keep your negative comments out of here...

Mr T? Yeah, I could hear that. Al Sharpton? Sometimes? Dennis Miller? Nah,

Who that, Aunt Esther?

Hardcore, If we hoisting and there crying, Im jumping in rid them out too!

Turn off the crying game! I don't even hear it anymore!

We about 80% on the same page. BUt its that 20% that just gets us!

Love ya!
let me put some reality into this

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