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Bonn1997
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7/12/2005  8:35 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

hopefully frye takes it as lesson learned and on to next game
It looks like he's a step ahead of you Briggs. He learned from the first half and had a great second half. 10/6 w/1 foul
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crzymdups
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7/12/2005  8:39 AM
Also, one last thing about the Fouls. Yes, Frye had 10, but they may have left him in because the refs were calling too tight a game. Refs called 82 FOULS!!! 4 Nets had 6 fouls or more. Nate Robinson had six fouls. This is a league where the top two refs get hired to the NBA, so the refs are looking to call EVERY close call, because they don't want to miss anything. There's no "let them play," its all about calling everything.

And, yeah, Diogu had 10 fouls in 22 minutes last night. People need to calm down. You did ask for him to play through the fouls. I hope it was a one game experiment to show Channing how to stay on the court WITHOUT fouling - which he seemed to do in the second half with only one foul in 15 minutes. Now see if he can learn from that. He has to learn how to stay on the court.
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Bonn1997
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7/12/2005  8:51 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by tomverve:

oh gawd. Look, I would have preferred Bynum or Green over Channing as well. I was really hoping for one of those two. But Frye is our pick and let's just give him time and a fair chance. As opposed to, say, having no identity or thoughts except to harp over how Channing is a bust and gleefully leaping at every little shred of data that might support that idea, if stretched enough. It's gonna get really old really fast during the season every time there's a new thread talking about how Channing did something wrong-- uh oh, foul trouble, he's a bust! uh oh, he got dunked on, he's a bust! God, save it, please. Try to appreciate the difference between cogency and hyperbole.

Thankyou Tom, I agree with everything you said even the Bynum and Green part. After the draft was over I wasn't mad that we drafted Channing, only becuase I saw him fitting into this new system absolutely beautifully.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07/12/2005 01:29:28]
Yeah, that's a great post.
bobs3304
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7/12/2005  8:53 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

Also - Nate is the steal of the draft. I'm expecting a Ben Gordon type season from him off the bench. And we're going to hear A LOT more about Marbury being traded the first time Nate scores 20 in the Garden.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 07/12/2005 08:35:04]

excellent point. from the bottom of our hearts, us fickle, flippant bastard knick fans apologize.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
OasisBU
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7/12/2005  9:27 AM
Why is everyone all over Channing? Because he was pick #8 and since he is a big man there are some unrealistic expectations riding on his shoulders? He is going to be good, the management believe in him - Zeke believes in him, hell even Spike Lee was happy on draft day.

Would it have been nice to get a potential superstar like Green? Sure...if he panned out to become one. What if he doesnt? This team needed SIZE, thats what was drafted with the #8 pick and we shouldnt be complaining about it - taking someone like Green would have guranteed another lottery bound season.

Let this kid play through SL, be excited that he is showing some improvement and getting experience under his belt. Also be excited about Nate and Lee - come November you can really start judging these picks when the Garden lights turn on and we all get to see how they play against experienced pros.

The jury is out, nobody is a bust yet and nobody is the savior...just wait and see.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
gunsnewing
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7/12/2005  9:29 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by tkf:

speaking of green, in a guard oriented SL he is not really tearing it up, had a less then stellar game, something like 9 points and 3 boards, something like that... Yawn.....

13pts 5-8FG in only 19mins...pretty good. He's been shooting consistently well as I expected

And how did you expect this... YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM PLAY A GAME!!!!

McDonalds all-american when he lit it up with that beautiful stroke! are you kidding me!
gunsnewing
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7/12/2005  9:38 AM
Posted by OasisBU:

Why is everyone all over Channing? Because he was pick #8 and since he is a big man there are some unrealistic expectations riding on his shoulders? He is going to be good, the management believe in him - Zeke believes in him, hell even Spike Lee was happy on draft day.

Would it have been nice to get a potential superstar like Green? Sure...if he panned out to become one. What if he doesnt? This team needed SIZE, thats what was drafted with the #8 pick and we shouldnt be complaining about it - taking someone like Green would have guranteed another lottery bound season.

Let this kid play through SL, be excited that he is showing some improvement and getting experience under his belt. Also be excited about Nate and Lee - come November you can really start judging these picks when the Garden lights turn on and we all get to see how they play against experienced pros.

The jury is out, nobody is a bust yet and nobody is the savior...just wait and see.

it would've been even nicer to have a young franchise Center in Andrew Bynum!
roblackman
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7/12/2005  9:53 AM
I think it is amazing that Frye gets 16 when our starting pg only has 2 assists and the team as a whole has only 9 assists! That means Frye can score pretty much on his own. Just think how much he will benefit from a pg who can distribute the ball. Just wait until Frye gets more one on one work in training camp, he will be fine. If you look at his rookie picture you can tell that he will be one of those players that you look back on in five years and see how much stronger he has gotten--he is still very young.
And the reply is...a post that makes sense (still waiting)
Nalod
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7/12/2005  10:15 AM
Posted by GoNyGoNyGo:
Posted by bobs3304:

Nobody really seemed to mention it yet, but I love the fact that they're playing Lee at SF. If he can add a jumpshot to his arsenal, that kid is gonna be a dangerous player...

Interesting. If he can develop at least a mid-range game, he could be tougher version of Austin Crosher (in his first season!). It would be smart for Lee to improve his outside game.

can we only compare the white guys with other white guys? Crosher is a stiff who had some nice career years when his contract was up.

Lee can bring it on no matter the pigment of his skin! A great pick!
Pharzeone
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7/12/2005  10:34 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by tkf:

speaking of green, in a guard oriented SL he is not really tearing it up, had a less then stellar game, something like 9 points and 3 boards, something like that... Yawn.....

13pts 5-8FG in only 19mins...pretty good. He's been shooting consistently well as I expected

And how did you expect this... YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM PLAY A GAME!!!!
Umm..yeah.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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7/12/2005  10:38 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by tkf:

speaking of green, in a guard oriented SL he is not really tearing it up, had a less then stellar game, something like 9 points and 3 boards, something like that... Yawn.....

13pts 5-8FG in only 19mins...pretty good. He's been shooting consistently well as I expected

And how did you expect this... YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM PLAY A GAME!!!!

McDonalds all-american when he lit it up with that beautiful stroke! are you kidding me!
I think he meant SL game, Guns. Not a HS all-star game. Sort of a big difference.

I don't expect too much from Green right away. He has such a thin frame. That's the problem Portland had with him, Webster has NBA size, so it is much easier for him to get his shot off. Green and Frye need to take get some Weight gainer shakes.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
gunsnewing
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7/12/2005  10:45 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by tkf:

speaking of green, in a guard oriented SL he is not really tearing it up, had a less then stellar game, something like 9 points and 3 boards, something like that... Yawn.....

13pts 5-8FG in only 19mins...pretty good. He's been shooting consistently well as I expected

And how did you expect this... YOU'VE NEVER SEEN HIM PLAY A GAME!!!!

McDonalds all-american when he lit it up with that beautiful stroke! are you kidding me!
I think he meant SL game, Guns. Not a HS all-star game. Sort of a big difference.

I don't expect too much from Green right away. He has such a thin frame. That's the problem Portland had with him, Webster has NBA size, so it is much easier for him to get his shot off. Green and Frye need to take get some Weight gainer shakes.

thanks for clearing that up for me. I've been reading reports on how well he's doing and like I said his good shooting has been very consistent unlike a guy like Ariza for example.
crzymdups
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7/12/2005  10:56 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:


thanks for clearing that up for me. I've been reading reports on how well he's doing and like I said his good shooting has been very consistent unlike a guy like Ariza for example.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see Gerald Green try to get his shot off over Trevor. Please, man, we have enough 2s and 3s as it is. We already have a minutes crunch and your solution is to draft a HS SG with a pretty shot who doesn't know how to do anything else. Please.

The only possible argument that makes sense is to say the Knicks should have drafted Bynum. Bynum has basically done the same as Frye in the Summer League so far, he has a different set of problems - where Frye has had foul trouble, Bynum has had conditioning issues. Both guys have looked solid doing what they do when they haven't been dealing with their respective issues. Bynum would have been a good pick and I went back and forth between the two myself, but let's just root for Frye to maximize his potential and root for the team. That's sports, rooting for your guy. When you get too upset that the Knicks didn't draft the guy you "scouted", I mean that's ridiculous. there have been rumors of personality issues with Green, injury and weight issues with Bynum, so clearly these guys aren't "can't miss" prospects. They have red flags. So does Frye, but it was that kind of draft where EVERYONE had red flags, there were no can't miss superstars. You have to scout and go with your gut. And frankly, I trust Isiah's gut - he's drafted Ariza, Tmac, Camby, Damon, developed JOneal, Artest and Harrington - he knows young talent. Don't you think the man who drafted Tmac would have taken Gerald Green if he REALLY thought he'd be the next superstar? I do.

Look, Nate Robinson wasn't on my draft board, but when there when Ric Bucher came on and said Nate was going to the Knicks - I was ecstatic - it was a great pick, even if it wasn't the guy I had "scouted". Nate is the steal of the draft, Frye has shown just as much as Bynum and Diogu just had a 10 foul game - so let's have some patience.

What I would like to see is the team start Jackie Butler and Frye next to each other. I think that would make for a much tougher defensive team than Bruno and Frye. It would probably help to keep Frye out of foul trouble.
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gunsnewing
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7/12/2005  10:59 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:


thanks for clearing that up for me. I've been reading reports on how well he's doing and like I said his good shooting has been very consistent unlike a guy like Ariza for example.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see Gerald Green try to get his shot off over Trevor. Please, man, we have enough 2s and 3s as it is. We already have a minutes crunch and your solution is to draft a HS SG with a pretty shot who doesn't know how to do anything else. Please.

The only possible argument that makes sense is to say the Knicks should have drafted Bynum. Bynum has basically done the same as Frye in the Summer League so far, he has a different set of problems - where Frye has had foul trouble, Bynum has had conditioning issues. Both guys have looked solid doing what they do when they haven't been dealing with their respective issues. Bynum would have been a good pick and I went back and forth between the two myself, but let's just root for Frye to maximize his potential and root for the team. That's sports, rooting for your guy. When you get too upset that the Knicks didn't draft the guy you "scouted", I mean that's ridiculous. there have been rumors of personality issues with Green, injury and weight issues with Bynum, so clearly these guys aren't "can't miss" prospects. They have red flags. So does Frye, but it was that kind of draft where EVERYONE had red flags, there were no can't miss superstars. You have to scout and go with your gut. And frankly, I trust Isiah's gut - he's drafted Ariza, Tmac, Camby, Damon, developed JOneal, Artest and Harrington - he knows young talent. Don't you think the man who drafted Tmac would have taken Gerald Green if he REALLY thought he'd be the next superstar? I do.

Look, Nate Robinson wasn't on my draft board, but when there when Ric Bucher came on and said Nate was going to the Knicks - I was ecstatic - it was a great pick, even if it wasn't the guy I had "scouted". Nate is the steal of the draft, Frye has shown just as much as Bynum and Diogu just had a 10 foul game - so let's have some patience.

What I would like to see is the team start Jackie Butler and Frye next to each other. I think that would make for a much tougher defensive team than Bruno and Frye. It would probably help to keep Frye out of foul trouble.

how about soar over people for dunks like he has also done so far in summerleague. That is the beauty of Gerald Green. No one on this team has that ability to become a superstar.

and there's a reason why I wouldn't stop talking about Bynum before the draft. maybe because I knew what I was talking about. Bynum has performed better than even i had expect as a 17yr so far

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07/12/2005 11:03:21]
BasketballJones
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7/12/2005  11:30 AM
Posted by OasisBU:

Why is everyone all over Channing? Because he was pick #8 and since he is a big man there are some unrealistic expectations riding on his shoulders? He is going to be good, the management believe in him - Zeke believes in him, hell even Spike Lee was happy on draft day.

Would it have been nice to get a potential superstar like Green? Sure...if he panned out to become one. What if he doesnt? This team needed SIZE, thats what was drafted with the #8 pick and we shouldnt be complaining about it - taking someone like Green would have guranteed another lottery bound season.

Let this kid play through SL, be excited that he is showing some improvement and getting experience under his belt. Also be excited about Nate and Lee - come November you can really start judging these picks when the Garden lights turn on and we all get to see how they play against experienced pros.

The jury is out, nobody is a bust yet and nobody is the savior...just wait and see.

People just take a dislike to certain players sometimes. I'm just a fan with no special expertise on evaluating young players, so I'm content to wait and see. However, some of the great "basketball minds" here have already decided that "Channing Frye sucks." They are going to stick with this repetitive little riff. It's like a political campaign. The technique is simple repetition. They are going to continue to harp on this point. They really can't lose because, even if Frye doesn't "suck" but is only mediocre, they can still say "I told you so."

I guess we have to stay entertained somehow during the off season.
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OldFan
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7/12/2005  11:34 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by OasisBU:

Why is everyone all over Channing? Because he was pick #8 and since he is a big man there are some unrealistic expectations riding on his shoulders? He is going to be good, the management believe in him - Zeke believes in him, hell even Spike Lee was happy on draft day.

Would it have been nice to get a potential superstar like Green? Sure...if he panned out to become one. What if he doesnt? This team needed SIZE, thats what was drafted with the #8 pick and we shouldnt be complaining about it - taking someone like Green would have guranteed another lottery bound season.

Let this kid play through SL, be excited that he is showing some improvement and getting experience under his belt. Also be excited about Nate and Lee - come November you can really start judging these picks when the Garden lights turn on and we all get to see how they play against experienced pros.

The jury is out, nobody is a bust yet and nobody is the savior...just wait and see.

it would've been even nicer to have a young franchise Center in Andrew Bynum!

Bynum went 10TH. Obviously there are doubts about him becoming a franchise center. And great bigs hardly ever get undervalued. Can you name a single 7 footer who was ever an allstar never mind a franchise player who got drafted 10th?


The jury is still out on Frye but the choice wasn't between Frye and a
"Franchise Center". The choice was between Frye and an unknown quantity that may turn out to be very good and may turn out to be nothing. Just because someone was over-hyped on this board doesn't make him a franchise anything.
BRIGGS
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7/12/2005  12:04 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by OasisBU:

Why is everyone all over Channing? Because he was pick #8 and since he is a big man there are some unrealistic expectations riding on his shoulders? He is going to be good, the management believe in him - Zeke believes in him, hell even Spike Lee was happy on draft day.

Would it have been nice to get a potential superstar like Green? Sure...if he panned out to become one. What if he doesnt? This team needed SIZE, thats what was drafted with the #8 pick and we shouldnt be complaining about it - taking someone like Green would have guranteed another lottery bound season.

Let this kid play through SL, be excited that he is showing some improvement and getting experience under his belt. Also be excited about Nate and Lee - come November you can really start judging these picks when the Garden lights turn on and we all get to see how they play against experienced pros.

The jury is out, nobody is a bust yet and nobody is the savior...just wait and see.

People just take a dislike to certain players sometimes. I'm just a fan with no special expertise on evaluating young players, so I'm content to wait and see. However, some of the great "basketball minds" here have already decided that "Channing Frye sucks." They are going to stick with this repetitive little riff. It's like a political campaign. The technique is simple repetition. They are going to continue to harp on this point. They really can't lose because, even if Frye doesn't "suck" but is only mediocre, they can still say "I told you so."

I guess we have to stay entertained somehow during the off season.


I don't think anyone here thinks Channing Frye scks. Did bells go off for me personally when I heard he had 9 fouls in the first half, yes. I just expect him to come out against the Nets who had NO one of any talent in the post last night. I thought Frye was a little sub par in the three previous ones and belived that letting him play through fouls would be smart. It kind of was and kind of wasnt. When you have carte blanche to do what you want without regards to fouling--your play and numbers can look skewed. If you know you cant foul out, you can do anything, be as aggresive as you want. Now I do believe it did have a reasonable effect, maybe got his confidence back, but I think they should put him back to the way the rules work with fouls next time.

As far as long term, the only thing the Knicks can hope for is Channing Fryes success. As a fan with realitic expectations to me its 14-15-7/8-50% 1.5 blocks. I think those are numbers he can acheive. If he doesnt, it does pave way for the scks stuff, mark blount scks for example--and I think Frye is better than that, but if he is mediocre, atleast in my eyes, its a failure. Im not asking for great ness, Im asking for charles smith numbers with more toughness--I think that is reasonable expectations.
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gunsnewing
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7/12/2005  12:10 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by OasisBU:

Why is everyone all over Channing? Because he was pick #8 and since he is a big man there are some unrealistic expectations riding on his shoulders? He is going to be good, the management believe in him - Zeke believes in him, hell even Spike Lee was happy on draft day.

Would it have been nice to get a potential superstar like Green? Sure...if he panned out to become one. What if he doesnt? This team needed SIZE, thats what was drafted with the #8 pick and we shouldnt be complaining about it - taking someone like Green would have guranteed another lottery bound season.

Let this kid play through SL, be excited that he is showing some improvement and getting experience under his belt. Also be excited about Nate and Lee - come November you can really start judging these picks when the Garden lights turn on and we all get to see how they play against experienced pros.

The jury is out, nobody is a bust yet and nobody is the savior...just wait and see.

People just take a dislike to certain players sometimes. I'm just a fan with no special expertise on evaluating young players, so I'm content to wait and see. However, some of the great "basketball minds" here have already decided that "Channing Frye sucks." They are going to stick with this repetitive little riff. It's like a political campaign. The technique is simple repetition. They are going to continue to harp on this point. They really can't lose because, even if Frye doesn't "suck" but is only mediocre, they can still say "I told you so."

I guess we have to stay entertained somehow during the off season.

I hope you're not referring to me because I think frye would be at worst mediocre. The problem I have is I feel we could've done better. This team needs more which is evident because of all the steven hunter, jerome james talk
Knicksfan
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7/12/2005  12:10 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

following DE live feed--David lee has been awesome[im going to start eating crow on him sometime] but here is the big news they have let Channing frye play through all fouls--get this he had 4 fouls in the first two minutes and finished up the first half with NINE fouls 6 points 5 reb. I guess they took the advice to let him play but this is outrageous and scary. I mean this guy is starting to look like a real bust.

http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1040

Ohh Briggs, you are great! You even start a new thread and say you are sorry. LOL! ANd I was wondering why hadn't anyone written anything on the original Nets-Knicks thread. You had to be behind that, LOL!

[Edited by - KnicksFan on 07/12/2005 12:12:40]
Knicks_Fan
crzymdups
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7/12/2005  12:18 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

how about soar over people for dunks like he has also done so far in summerleague. That is the beauty of Gerald Green. No one on this team has that ability to become a superstar.

and there's a reason why I wouldn't stop talking about Bynum before the draft. maybe because I knew what I was talking about. Bynum has performed better than even i had expect as a 17yr so far

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07/12/2005 11:03:21]

Please, don't act like you know a thing about Bynum. Your progression of posts went like this:

March: there's still a chance for the playoffs!
April: there's still a chance for Bogut!
May/June: Gerald Green is the next Tmac! Granger too!
July: Frye sucks, we shoulda taken the next Tmac, Artest, etc!

You occassionally agreed with Briggs, but you've been all BPA all along. And, you know what, BPA FOR THIS TEAM was no swingman. It was Frye or Bynum. And we got Frye, so I'm happy to see if he can develop. Bottom line: there's NO WAY you can tell me based on summer league if Frye or Bynum is better. And Green hasn't had any great games yet.

In fact, the only consensus superstar at summer league according to the rest of the league? Nate Robinson. He's got a better vertical than your precious Green too.
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