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Silverfuel
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7/7/2005  2:53 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:

I'm too late here but I just wanted to say I'm sorry about this . USA, Spain and now UK
This is what I dont understand. Why is that only Europe and the US that get mentioned? I hope you dont take this personal DarkKnicks but I am just going to use it as an example. Its not just you, everyone does it. Everyone hears about suicide bombs in Tel Aviv (Israel) and Kashmir (India). Why are we so quick to forget those incidents?

simrud: When it comes to the subject of persecution, Hardcore is simply saying he knows hatred. I dont think he claims to be the highest authority on pain and suffering.
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VDesai
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7/7/2005  3:02 PM
Definitely my sympathies to those in London. I think we can all agree that extremism of any kind is dangerous.
TheloniusMonk
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7/7/2005  3:05 PM
Posted by simrud:


Hardcore, if it was up to me I'd have anybody who walks around in a clan robe hanged on a tree, they arent any better.

You need to get over the fact that somehow because you are black you know more about prosectuion and suffering then anybody else. I grew up in a Russian ghetto in the middle of a post Soviet former republic, a country where anybody who is not Lativan (that's the country) is treated like trash. I bet I know more about segregation, opression, etc. then you, I actually leaved it, you most likley werent even born or were too young in the 60's.

And as somebody from Europe, I can tell you that there is an irratinal hatred of America there, just like in the middle east. People hate America is it does not bring them freedom, and when it does, they hate because they do with force. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't, such is the destiny of superpower.

With black people, it's not about segregation. It's about overt and covert racism. This goes hand and hand with capitalism. It starts with a history of slavery in this country. Blacks have been 'free of bondage' for a little over 100 years (slavery still went on after it was outlawed...just like prohibition). This country was based on that for hundreds of years consisting of generation after generation. America became the richest nation...slavery was the catalyst. Workers and no payrole? That's heaven for an entire country because it's nothing but profit. Then when blacks were 'out of bondage' nothing belonged to them and immigrants would come in and get jobs ahead of blacks. Jim Crow laws were designed in the late 1800's to LITERALLY keep blacks on the outside. So basically, the ammount of wealth that was owned by people who were other than black was like 99.99999999%. This is how racism and capitalism became one in America. There is what you call the overt racist and then there are covert racists. Overt racists are the ones that are focused upon. They where sheets over their heads. Covert racists goes like this: a black kid and a white kid that came from the same college, with the same major and gpa go out for the same job at the same time. The black guy is told that the position has been filled. So when he comes out he tells the white guy "theres no need to go into the interview, the job has been taken". So the white kid decides to go in anyway, just for the experience of the interview. He gets the job. That's a system of covert racism. The white kid didn't take anything away from the black kid himself, but the white kid becomes the participent in a system. It takes two for this operation to exist. The overt racist and the covert one. Thus, the black guy has experienced two types of discrimination. And as long as that company keeps a certain amount of minorities employed they cannot be sued.

So in a nutshell, who cares that a person just 'hates you'. Or they say 'we don't want you to sit near us'. Who cares? But there are systems in place that need to be broken down. This is the same for America's dealings with foreign countries, middle eastern extremists and everyone in between. Killing a bunch of people because they killed a bunch of people won't cut it. I mean, is it all about having a killing spree? Who wins? The side that kills the most people?
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
simrud
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7/7/2005  3:05 PM
Originally posted by TheloniusMonk:

I don't think the extremists are fighting because of what happened centuries ago in biblical times. Modern Israel and ancient Isreal aren't the same at all. Israelis were literally PUT smack dab in the middle of the 'middle east' with help from America back in the days of Hitler. The natives were kicked out of there own land so that Isrealis could find shelter from Hitler's reign. But in the bible they talk about the ISRAELITES. Ancient Isreal (home of the Israelistes) no longer exists and modern day Isreal is less than 100 years old and consist of the ancestors of the victims of Hitler. I think extremist middle easterners beef is with the fact that modern day Israel is occupying their land. So they keep trying to bomb them out.

Yes, exactly. Thanks for posting facts for the misinformed. The pervasive cowboy talk and fairytale stories stop when someone drops some accurate facts.

That is a misinformed fairytale if there is one man.

If you actually knew your history (and don't come back here with history is all made up bs that I think you will anyways) you would know that Jews, who are by the way the same things as Isralites, enhibited what is modern day Palestine/Israel as a majority untill the time of Flavian Roman dynaiste, when Titus sacked the temple.

After that they were mostly displaced as slaves. Some still remained, and were there all througout, until the modern day. Before any sort of immigration ever started.

So it is really a non issue who is native to the land, you can even make an argument that whoever was kicked out in the biblical times by Jews really own the land. But who are those people?

It should have been a joined state from the beginnin, and if was. Once again if you knew a lick of the facts you claim to have, you wouldknow that by the original agreemtn even Jersualem was shared between the newly created state of Isreal and Palestein.

However then allt he Arab nations attacked Israel, who who got support from US and won a series of wars, in the process takin over the territrie it hols today. By the virute of these was, that were started all by the Arabs mind you, the stae of Isreal today exists.

Just like US exists by the virtue of the many Indian wars, the revolutinar war, the spanish war, the mexican war, and the wwi and wwii.

Are we suppoed to give up Texax, New Mexico, Florida, and a host of other states back to Mexico? Should the Philippoines till belong to Spain? Shold we we even not be a colony of Britain?

So don't come here and tell me that I don't know the facts, I'm wililn to bet I know a lot more then you, juging by your ignorant remarks.





[Edited by - simrud on 07/07/2005 15:08:51]
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
DarkKnicks
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Spain
7/7/2005  3:05 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by DarkKnicks:

I'm too late here but I just wanted to say I'm sorry about this . USA, Spain and now UK
This is what I dont understand. Why is that only Europe and the US that get mentioned? I hope you dont take this personal DarkKnicks but I am just going to use it as an example. Its not just you, everyone does it. Everyone hears about suicide bombs in Tel Aviv (Israel) and Kashmir (India). Why are we so quick to forget those incidents?
Man, you are totally right about how quick we forget those terrible acts. I just said that because these 3 attacks have one thing (I don't want to use the word "reason" because there's no reason for killing) in common and we all know what it is.
TheloniusMonk
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7/7/2005  3:10 PM
Posted by simrud:
Originally posted by TheloniusMonk:

I don't think the extremists are fighting because of what happened centuries ago in biblical times. Modern Israel and ancient Isreal aren't the same at all. Israelis were literally PUT smack dab in the middle of the 'middle east' with help from America back in the days of Hitler. The natives were kicked out of there own land so that Isrealis could find shelter from Hitler's reign. But in the bible they talk about the ISRAELITES. Ancient Isreal (home of the Israelistes) no longer exists and modern day Isreal is less than 100 years old and consist of the ancestors of the victims of Hitler. I think extremist middle easterners beef is with the fact that modern day Israel is occupying their land. So they keep trying to bomb them out.

Yes, exactly. Thanks for posting facts for the misinformed. The pervasive cowboy talk and fairytale stories stop when someone drops some accurate facts.

That is a misinformed fairytale if there is one man.

If you actually knew your history (and don't come back here with history is all made up bs that I think you will anyways) you would know that Jews, who are by the way the same things as Isralites, enhibited what is modern day Palestine/Israel as a majority untill the time of Flavian Roman dynaiste, when Titus sacked the temple.

After that they were mostly displaced as slaves. Some still remained, and were there all througout, until the modern day. Before any sort of immigration ever started.

So it is really a non issue who is native to the land, you can even make an argument that whoever was kicked out in the biblical times by Jews really own the land. But who are those people?

It should have been a joined state from the beginnin, and if was. Once again if you knew a lick of the facts you claim to have, you wouldknow that by the original agreemtn even Jersualem was shared between the newly created state of Isreal and Palestein.

However then allt he Arab nations attacked Israel, who who got support from US and won a series of wars, in the process takin over the territrie it hols today. By the virute of these was, that were started all by the Arabs mind you, the stae of Isreal today exists.

Just like US exists by the virtue of the many Indian wars, the revolutinar war, the spanish war, the mexican war, and the wwi and wwii.

Are we suppoed to give up Texax, New Mexico, Florida, and a host of other states back to Mexico? Should the Philippoines till belong to Spain? Shold we we even not be a colony of Britain?

So don't come here and tell me that I don't know the facts, I'm wililn to bet I know a lot more then you, juging by your ignorant remarks.





[Edited by - simrud on 07/07/2005 15:08:51]

WOW! Someone is mad!
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
simrud
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7/7/2005  3:11 PM
WOW someone is not intelligent enoght to read something that longer than a comic strip footer.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
nyballer
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7/7/2005  3:13 PM
Posted by simrud:

Other then that the whole point here is that terrorits must be punihshed and so should their supporets. When thousans of people are celebratin 9/11 as a great even in streets of Iran, I have no problem with these people beign all killed, they deserve to be for that celebratin. They are celebratin deatha and murder.

Any one of them from any of those crowds would not think twice before putting a knife though mine or yours neck.
just so you know, that footage wasn't after 9/11. CNN was playing old footage from an independence day celebration in those countries. they issued an apology a few weeks after playing the footage, but nobody really paid attention to it. Don't let the media screw around with your head, and if you want to make these kind of statements, make sure your facts are right.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
TheloniusMonk
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7/7/2005  3:16 PM
Posted by simrud:
Originally posted by TheloniusMonk:

I don't think the extremists are fighting because of what happened centuries ago in biblical times. Modern Israel and ancient Isreal aren't the same at all. Israelis were literally PUT smack dab in the middle of the 'middle east' with help from America back in the days of Hitler. The natives were kicked out of there own land so that Isrealis could find shelter from Hitler's reign. But in the bible they talk about the ISRAELITES. Ancient Isreal (home of the Israelistes) no longer exists and modern day Isreal is less than 100 years old and consist of the ancestors of the victims of Hitler. I think extremist middle easterners beef is with the fact that modern day Israel is occupying their land. So they keep trying to bomb them out.

Yes, exactly. Thanks for posting facts for the misinformed. The pervasive cowboy talk and fairytale stories stop when someone drops some accurate facts.

That is a misinformed fairytale if there is one man.

If you actually knew your history (and don't come back here with history is all made up bs that I think you will anyways) you would know that Jews, who are by the way the same things as Isralites, enhibited what is modern day Palestine/Israel as a majority untill the time of Flavian Roman dynaiste, when Titus sacked the temple.

After that they were mostly displaced as slaves. Some still remained, and were there all througout, until the modern day. Before any sort of immigration ever started.

So it is really a non issue who is native to the land, you can even make an argument that whoever was kicked out in the biblical times by Jews really own the land. But who are those people?

It should have been a joined state from the beginnin, and if was. Once again if you knew a lick of the facts you claim to have, you wouldknow that by the original agreemtn even Jersualem was shared between the newly created state of Isreal and Palestein.

However then allt he Arab nations attacked Israel, who who got support from US and won a series of wars, in the process takin over the territrie it hols today. By the virute of these was, that were started all by the Arabs mind you, the stae of Isreal today exists.

Just like US exists by the virtue of the many Indian wars, the revolutinar war, the spanish war, the mexican war, and the wwi and wwii.

Are we suppoed to give up Texax, New Mexico, Florida, and a host of other states back to Mexico? Should the Philippoines till belong to Spain? Shold we we even not be a colony of Britain?

So don't come here and tell me that I don't know the facts, I'm wililn to bet I know a lot more then you, juging by your ignorant remarks.





[Edited by - simrud on 07/07/2005 15:08:51]

It's funny because you just displayed where anger and hatred come from in your post. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. Maybe I am and maybe I'm not. But if you feel like you're more informed about a specific topic than I am, why not take the approach of sharing what you know happily and openly rather then calling me names and saying how ignorant you THINK i am. You came back with fury and with anger in your heart. Saying you're willing to bet you know more than me. All of a sudden it is a competition huh? This is EXACTLY how hatred starts in people. You JUST showcased it. I'm the type that, if someone knows something that I can learn, I listen. You on the other hand are coming at me (because u feel I am misinformed) with malace.

Take your attitude and multiply it and that's how people become hateful and becomes the enemy of his neighbor. See that? Just that quick
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
simrud
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7/7/2005  3:23 PM
First of to guy who says that those celebrations werent for 9/11. Those specific ones might not have been. Many ohers however have.

A freind of mine was on a plane on which he saw with his own eyes a group of Arabs celebrate and sing when the saw the news of 9/11.

He started sinigign the American anthem and they yelled at him to shudup. The went at it for a while, tryin to outshout him.

So once again, check your facts.

Now to monk, I'm mad mainly because hardcore is actin like he knows somethign everybody else doesnt, when he is clearly doesnt.

If I offended you then my bad, but if you have an open mind you should read my post it will be interesting.
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TheloniusMonk
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7/7/2005  3:24 PM
As a matter of fact, if you read my opening line it was "I don't THINK the extremists are fighting because of what happened centruries ago in biblical times."

You see that? Do you see how willing you were to look past that i said "i think"? Then I proceeded to explain what I understand to be the truth. You are the best example of why people of different races don't have any dialogue. I came back to the page and I'm being called all types of ignorant and all of this lol. It's funny because you literally displayed, in a nutshell, how people think. This is why one nation bombs another and then that nation bombs another and then that one bombs another. No dialogue and understanding. No educating one another or anything. Just venom. Sad. But this is why it goes on and on.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
TheloniusMonk
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7/7/2005  3:27 PM
Posted by simrud:

First of to guy who says that those celebrations werent for 9/11. Those specific ones might not have been. Many ohers however have.

A freind of mine was on a plane on which he saw with his own eyes a group of Arabs celebrate and sing when the saw the news of 9/11.

He started sinigign the American anthem and they yelled at him to shudup. The went at it for a while, tryin to outshout him.

So once again, check your facts.

Now to monk, I'm mad mainly because hardcore is actin like he knows somethign everybody else doesnt, when he is clearly doesnt.

If I offended you then my bad, but if you have an open mind you should read my post it will be interesting.

Sure i'll go back and read it. You should also read my post about racism if you're interested.
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simrud
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7/7/2005  3:28 PM
Did you ohneslty read my post? There was like mabye 2 insults in it, caue I did get heated. Sicne you seem to so calm I'm just wondering if you found it inormative of do you disagree.
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nyballer
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7/7/2005  3:30 PM
Posted by simrud:

First of to guy who says that those celebrations werent for 9/11. Those specific ones might not have been. Many ohers however have.

A freind of mine was on a plane on which he saw with his own eyes a group of Arabs celebrate and sing when the saw the news of 9/11.

He started sinigign the American anthem and they yelled at him to shudup. The went at it for a while, tryin to outshout him.

So once again, check your facts.
That's not a fact, that's a second-hand account that has most likely been exaggerated out of proportion. A fact is that the media has misled viewers into believing that middle eastern countries were out on the streets celebrating 9/11, when in fact they were celebrating on independence day - CNN issued a statement apologizing for this misrepresentation. I'm sure there are people who were happy about the 9/11 attacks but let's not say that people of Middle Eastern descent love to see Americans suffer. There are people that are using religion as a rationalization for committing acts of terror but this isn't the majority, and to say that a majority of Arabs rejoiced after 9/11 is flat-out wrong.
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simrud
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7/7/2005  3:31 PM
I read your post about racims, and sadly it is true, but it is gettin better (in like 15 years white people arent even gonna be the majority anymore you know) and the reason I even got into was because I put of by how Core dimsmissed the other guys' expereience of racial hatred, by, bascially going, yo i'm black don't tell me how it feels to be hated, that kind of stuff just irks me as a former refuge.
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dodger78
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7/7/2005  3:32 PM


Hmmm... sorry Briggs but you might have noticed that there where elections in Iran only 2 weeks ago!!! And those were the third since the death of the Ayatola. Besides please dont start talking about how those elections were manipulated or ill start ranting about the bush election and that stupid electoral system of the states!!!
Besides the US has quiet good relations with saudi arabia, and other non-democratic states in the ME so THIS has nothing to do with your resentment against IRAN and the iranian people! it is just simply that you are pissed of seeing the television pics of people burning your flag!!! Thats all!!!! You are a victim of the filtered information you are fed as much as those people!!!
Think about it!!!!!!!!!

These people hate the USA because we happen to be aligned and an aly with the only democracy in the ME--Israel. The US[who wasnt even around] OR even modern Israel cannot be condemnd for actions centuries ago. the world evolves and so should the people of this world. Sorry, but these countries like Iran do nothing to quell radical ideology. In fact they seem to rally around it. Why do you see pictures on TV where thousands of Iranians relish in burning of the American flag?
nyballer
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7/7/2005  3:32 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:


Posted by simrud:

Did I mention anything about arabs celebrating 9/11? Once again, the half-cocked scaredey-cat paranoia comes out again. You say that you want the arabs who danced when 9/11 happened killed, huh? They should die for laughing? How humane. I guess you'd feel the same way about the white people that took pictures grinning under lynched black men in the south too? Yeah... That's where the hypocrisy rears its ugly head.
For that matter, how about the American soldiers who tortured Iraqis? Should they die also?
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simrud
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7/7/2005  3:35 PM
nyballer, I'm not sayin that most did, but a lot did. It happened, it happens every day. Pick up an Arab newspaper of radical inclanation and you'll read all you need to know if you can translate it.

We can't just say arabs are all terrorists becaue that is not what America stands for, that is why it is so hard for us to fight radical islamists. For them its easy, they can just say americans are evil, kill them, end of story.

But the way for us to really win is to control our teomper and fight only the guly and the supporters. And it is not easy. Its very hard to reamin impartial and calm when innoncent people are being killed and the ones resonsible are not showing a shread of remorse, and even blamin it all on thsoe they kill.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
simrud
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7/7/2005  3:37 PM
Anybody who thinks Iranian elections are real, let alone that the Iraninan president actually has any power are really ignorant.

The aytollah is the one really in power, he has an amrey of 200000 murdering goons who really controlt he nation.
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simrud
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7/7/2005  3:39 PM
US soldies follows orderd, and then their commandrs just used them as scapegoats. The commandin officers hidign behind the sceenes are the ones that should be courtmashalled, and yes perheaps given the eath penalty.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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