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Chad Rumbles about the Knicks, oh how he rumbles...
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crzymdups
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7/5/2005  6:25 PM
Also, people should slow down on Lebron. We won't have the cap room if we acquire Dalembert to a near max deal. No way. We'd have Craw, Q, Rose and Dalembert signed long term and eating up the majority of the cap room. Frye, Nate and Lee and any new rookies or MLE guys would eat into the cap too. I don't see having enough room to sign Lebron. But, hey, who knows at this rate? If that's the long term plan, I give major props to Isiah.
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VDesai
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7/5/2005  6:40 PM
Not a fan of either of the deals, though the Dalembert one is more palatable. We'd be getting a lot of garbage in return though (McKie? Ollie? Mashburn?). Philly is already getting the better player in the deal. We should be able to take out our trash too. Sub TT for Mo Taylor and Rose and maybe throw us a pick.

One scenario I was popping in my head for Marbs was a 3 way with Denver and Memphis.

NYK gets Gasol/picks
Memphis gets Nene/Miller
Denver gets Marbury/Wells

Probably doesnt work under the cap but you can add filler around that.

Dalembert would be a nice pickup, but to give Marbury and taking in all that trash is not a great deal. Since when did Marbury become one of the hardest players to move? He puts up enough numbers to justify his salary and isnt that old.
TMS
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7/5/2005  6:46 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Thomas is willing to trade Marbury to the Sixers for Samuel Dalembert (in a sign-and-trade), according to two league sources. To get a deal to work under the CBA, the deal would have to be expanded because of base-year issues with Dalembert. A trade of Marbury and Tim Thomas for Dalembert, Jamal Mashburn, Aaron McKie and Kevin Ollie works under the cap.


Would the Sixers make that trade? They would have the most dynamic (or is that combustible?) backcourt in the league (Marbury and Allen Iverson) and would get to dump two bad contracts. But losing Dalembert at center, with only Marc Jackson left to roam the middle, would be a high price to pay.

If they can't convince the Sixers to deal, the Knicks might be willing to do a smaller deal that sends Marbury to the Hawks for Al Harrington, Tony Delk and Jason Collier. If the Hawks really want veterans (see below), this could be the way to go.

both of those trades are horrible imho...you're not getting a proven star player in either & giving up an elite PG...no way i make either trade...unless he's getting a valid star calibre player that fits the system he's trying to implement & complements the rest of this roster (*cough* K-Mart *cough* *cough*) then i say Isiah won't make the deal (unless we're talking a 1st round lottery pick being included coming our way of course).

[Edited by - TMS on 07/05/2005 18:46:54]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
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7/5/2005  6:59 PM
Well, after doing some research, I found out some interesting stuff on the Marbury to ATL deal. Harrington, Delk and Collier all add up to about 12 mil in expiring deals. Since Marbuyr makes 16.5 it doesnt work under the cap. Could they possibly add Josh Smith+ to sweeten the deal? If they do it makes it a lot more interesting.
VDesai
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7/5/2005  7:04 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Well, after doing some research, I found out some interesting stuff on the Marbury to ATL deal. Harrington, Delk and Collier all add up to about 12 mil in expiring deals. Since Marbuyr makes 16.5 it doesnt work under the cap. Could they possibly add Josh Smith+ to sweeten the deal? If they do it makes it a lot more interesting.

Further, with hardly any players under contract they'd pretty much have to give us Smith, Diaw and maybe some picks. That would be a pretty similar deal to what we gave the Suns...
Ray15
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7/5/2005  7:06 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Well, after doing some research, I found out some interesting stuff on the Marbury to ATL deal. Harrington, Delk and Collier all add up to about 12 mil in expiring deals. Since Marbuyr makes 16.5 it doesnt work under the cap. Could they possibly add Josh Smith+ to sweeten the deal? If they do it makes it a lot more interesting.


They are under the cap so it doesn't have to match salary wise. But hopefully Isiah is smart enough not to do this trade. This is the worst one I've seen yet.

I don't mind the Dalembert one as long as we're not taking back too many bad contracts. Why not Dalembert and Korver for Marbury? Why not include Sweets and take back Iguodola?

Also, I wouldn't mind Nene/Dre Miller/first rounder for Marbury. We get a very solid pg and a legit big man to go perfectly next to Frye. In the process we clear up 20 mpg for Nate and allow Crawford more time at the point.
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crzymdups
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7/5/2005  7:07 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Well, after doing some research, I found out some interesting stuff on the Marbury to ATL deal. Harrington, Delk and Collier all add up to about 12 mil in expiring deals. Since Marbuyr makes 16.5 it doesnt work under the cap. Could they possibly add Josh Smith+ to sweeten the deal? If they do it makes it a lot more interesting.

Well, personally, I would hope Zeke would never do that deal.

I would only trade Marbury for a big man who was on the verge of being an all-star like Dalembert or Kmart. If you can get a big like that, I think you do the trade. Otherwise, stick it out.

But, as for the other people saying Marbury is an elite point guard - he's breaking down and the last three teams that have traded him have all improved DRASTICALLY the season after he leaves. I'm not saying Marbury sucks, heck, I've been his biggest supporter here at times. But this team has three good to great point guards right now. If you can trade one of them for a good to great big guy, you should do it. Trading Marbury is the easiest way to do this. I was saying this back in March. It's not fun, and it would hurt to trade a true New York guy like Marbury, but he's not a leader, he doesn't run the fast break style this team is suddenly being built for. I don't know, if the right deal comes along, I'm not opposed.
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VDesai
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7/5/2005  7:19 PM
Posted by Ray15:
Posted by VDesai:

Well, after doing some research, I found out some interesting stuff on the Marbury to ATL deal. Harrington, Delk and Collier all add up to about 12 mil in expiring deals. Since Marbuyr makes 16.5 it doesnt work under the cap. Could they possibly add Josh Smith+ to sweeten the deal? If they do it makes it a lot more interesting.


They are under the cap so it doesn't have to match salary wise. But hopefully Isiah is smart enough not to do this trade. This is the worst one I've seen yet.

I don't mind the Dalembert one as long as we're not taking back too many bad contracts. Why not Dalembert and Korver for Marbury? Why not include Sweets and take back Iguodola?

Also, I wouldn't mind Nene/Dre Miller/first rounder for Marbury. We get a very solid pg and a legit big man to go perfectly next to Frye. In the process we clear up 20 mpg for Nate and allow Crawford more time at the point.

That's right about the cap. Good catch. I was a little shell shocked at the rumors and completely forgot that.

[Edited by - VDesai on 07/05/2005 19:19:52]
rvhoss
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7/5/2005  7:25 PM
there has to be a way to dump Tiny Tim and Lil' Penny instead of starbury. I mean, he's top 5 in jersey sales and sells tickets. They got rid of Kurt to make nice and we all know crawford isn't ready to be a starter.

Even if it is just a rumor, it's nice to know Zeke is working the phones to get a young center.

Sweets for Kwame...Why they can't just take Tim Thomas and/or Rose/MoT for Dalembart (sorry for the spelling) is beyond me.

Before the season ended, there was a dalembart for Tim Thomas rumor (timmy from philly area college and from jersey) which makes the most sense...trading marbury and having him and Iverson on the same team is absurd...no way that happens...if it does, I'm done with it all.
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rvhoss
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7/5/2005  7:30 PM
OK, I'm completely broken...Marbs has to lead us to a top 5 record or he's gone by the all star break.
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Cookdcokehop
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7/5/2005  7:55 PM
Wow! I had to laugh when I saw some of these trade proposals.

Like Marbury to the Sixers. Why the hell would the Sixers want another player that wants the rock in his hand at all times. Iverson is going to want his 25 shots a game. Marbury is going to want his 15-20 shots a game, and same With Webber. In other words, this trade isnt going to happen.

Then someone brought up the Steve Francis trade. We get a 27 year old Point Guard that cant shoot and cant pass. Sure the athleticism and the crossover is there, but as far as everything else...not going to happen.

Marbury for the Hawk bums. Im not even going to comment on this one.

Marbury for Walker. First off, I dont even want Walker on this team. Walker and Marbury are about the same age and the only reason I see Zekes wanting to trade Marbs is to get youger. But unfortunately he will sign Walker with the MLE, and take away minutes from players like Lee and Frye. I think Walker, if signed will be used as trade bait to get a superstar, maybe KG.

I have faith in Marbury and would hate to see him go, but if his time comes to depart from the NYK organization then all I want is Expiring contracts in return.
Killa4luv
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7/5/2005  8:13 PM
WHY TRADE YOUR BEST PLAYER WHEN YOU HAVE ASSEMBLED PLAYERS WHO WILL PLAY WELL WITH HIM?

Q for the spot up, Frye for the pick and roll, Craw as a slasher, Marbs as a slasher, why? This team is solid as it is now configured. We are already a better than .500 team with no more additions. Add another solid role playing big, and the sky is the limit as our draft picks mature.
rvhoss
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7/5/2005  8:13 PM
sanity is restored...fish had a great post as well.

you guys just saved my life.
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JohnWallace44
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7/5/2005  8:48 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

sanity is restored...fish had a great post as well.

you guys just saved my life.

If we can make a great trade for Starbury that either cuts a ton of cap space to bring in LeBron or brings back Center and PG talent then lets do it. But otherwise I do think we should hang on to Marburry to see how he will play with all the new parts. If we won a few more games and Marbury upped his assist averages to like 12 or something, you could probably trade him for anyone before the deadline. I think any trade where we take back bad deals would be a mistake.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
WOODMANnYk
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7/5/2005  9:14 PM
If we're gonna trade MArbury away, we need to get back a studded frontcourt post-up player that rebounds..

MArbury averages 20 pts and 8 assists.. Not too many players in league history have done that..

We need to at least get someone who averages 20 and 9 yearly to matchup on a mArbury deal...

Dalembert wouldn't work cause he doesn't draw tyhe double team or spread out the offense..
The Future. GO KNICKS!
crzymdups
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7/5/2005  9:28 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

WHY TRADE YOUR BEST PLAYER WHEN YOU HAVE ASSEMBLED PLAYERS WHO WILL PLAY WELL WITH HIM?

Q for the spot up, Frye for the pick and roll, Craw as a slasher, Marbs as a slasher, why? This team is solid as it is now configured. We are already a better than .500 team with no more additions. Add another solid role playing big, and the sky is the limit as our draft picks mature.

That's exactly the point - Isiah wants a running team and Marbury is one of the worst fast break point guards in the league. He doesn't pass up court, he doesn't look upcourt, he looks to set up the half court offense. Marbury is a perfect half court point guard, surrounded by one of the youngest, fastest, smallest teams in the league. Marbury would be the PERFECT point guard for Ewing era slow it down bball. He's the wrong PG for a run and gun style. But, run and gun is easier to build than a half court game. For a good half court game you need a Shaq, Duncan or Jermaine Oneal. Now, maybe Isiah trades for Kwame and turns him into Jermaine Oneal in a year and everyone is happy - but I think Marbury goes and Jamal becomes one of the better fast break PGs in the league.
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Killa4luv
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7/5/2005  9:34 PM
There is no way we will be enough under the cap to get lebron. It is impossible to do that and still sell tickets. Craw, Q, Ariza, Frye, Nate, Lee, Sweets, JYD, Rose, and Mo Taylor will still have us over the cap!

BTW that is a lottery team too. This is NY we can't suck for 10 straight years.
WOODMANnYk
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7/5/2005  10:56 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

There is no way we will be enough under the cap to get lebron. It is impossible to do that and still sell tickets. Craw, Q, Ariza, Frye, Nate, Lee, Sweets, JYD, Rose, and Mo Taylor will still have us over the cap!

BTW that is a lottery team too. This is NY we can't suck for 10 straight years.
It could be done.. We'll see in 2007 when he becomes a free agent.. Houston, Taylor, Jerome W. and Sweetney all come off the books.. Knicks will probably be 45mill in payroll..
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PresIke
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7/5/2005  11:02 PM
Craw as a slasher

Sorry, I don't see Crawford as a slasher. He is afraid of body contact. How many times did we see him settle for a jumper when there was a path to the lane? I don't dislike the guy, I'm just saying, I don't consider him to be a slasher.

I also think these Marbury trade ideas seem quite ridiculous upon first glance. I suppose if we could get Lebron, that would be a decent tradeoff, but this forum's obsession with Dalembert still goes on huh? The guy has no offensive game to speak of, and we are then going to rely on our chuckers, Crawford and Q to lead the team?

Some must think that we are going to become the Pistons or something, with no super-star to speak of. The problem is this team is not composed of players anywhere near as mature as on Detroit. I like the idea of improving defensively, but Dalembert for Marbury follows the usual, "grass is greener" philosophy, based on 'potential' that seems like a very high risk, especially if we are then still locked over the cap.
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Bobby
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7/5/2005  11:14 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

I really hope this isn't true. If we trade Steph for any of those scenarios, I am no longer a knick fan. I will close my account on this site, and I am finished with the Knicks.

zeke should be smarter than these trade rumors
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
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