blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Just think we could have extended Frank on a cheap 1 year deal instead of giving Fournier that hideous contract

No Randle or Fournier contracts and we are under the cap and can sign Brunson or Tyus Jones without S&T. Is Isiah still the shadow GM?

So basically the same ****ty team we had before Randle? Why so one tracked? EF gave us the most threes in Knick history. Randle led us in most.
How about taking other useless pieces like Noel, Kemba and keeping Franky? That would actually bring statistical logic into your view.

Franky has and always be less than what some just can't admit. A very good spot Defender. Do agree, why not keep him on the cheap and use him against Trae? Mavs showed that to be a flaw in our management of him.

Yes. That's the only point. Frankie might have added a win or two to that Atlanta series just on defense alone. Okay, he was ghosted by Thibs. The by-product is that Frankie is in a better place proving conclusively that whatever he brings is *enough* to make a difference strategically.

The other by-product is that Thibs hasn't learned a thing and will ghost players who can help in the future. Thibs needs a winning team to win with. He ain't Kenny Atkinson. And that's a problem.

Think Frank is proving "conclusively" that he is just a good spot Defender. Don't know if you can say he was the difference in this series. Brunson, Dinwiddie and that guy Luka may have been.

Not to mention, the Mavs have not exactly increased Franks minutes this year. Mavs Ghosting him? Can't see how Frank fans are okay with Mavs use of Frank but are so against Thibs doing exactly the same thing? Minus using him for defensive minutes in this series.

Sorry to jump in on this discussion. But seems like the only thing Frank did wrong was get drafted at 8, which was out of his control. If Frank was drafted 38, there wouldn't be 46 pages on Frank. The point I'm making is Frank is a good player and he can play a role to help a team. But when you are drafted at 8 by a NY team itching to be relevant, itching for a PG, itching to win a chip, you will have 46 pages of Frank news and how he's trash. To me it's on Phil for selecting Frank to run his triangle, it's not Franks fault he was drafted so early. But if he was picked 38, he would be called a solid role player and only a few pages saying good luck.

Sometimes we let a players draft selection determine their NBA career. Frank is a role player (picked very high) and Knick fans was expecting starter quality in return. That doesn't mean he's not a good player and he can't help a team. Even if the Mavs played him in just a few minutes per game, thats how the Mavs value Frank. There's really nothing else to be said. OKC might start Frank or give him more minutes. Is that because Frank is better and has improved or just a reflection on OKC and how they perceive Frank and how they will use Frank.

Back to his defense, which is his real value. Frank can change a game or the momentum of a game with his defense alone (Trae was a different challenge for Frank. Trae is a problem for the entire league). Same with offensive 3pt specialist. They change the game in spurts. So far thats what Frank brings to a team, on defense. Outside of Frank being picked #8, whats wrong with Frank being a role player getting spot minutes? Why can't knick fans just be happy for him. He's not a locker room problem like KP's brother. He's a good player barely getting minutes or barely scoring for the Mavs. OK. He's still a good defender who can defend multiple positions, and help multiple teams.

Agree with just about everything you said. My posts have been consistent about Frank. Frank is a solid defensive role player. He should not have been a lotto pick and was only picked by Phil because he fit the Triangle. Shortsighted thinking. He did not deserve to be resigned as his CAP hold did not meet his production. He had ample chance to put together more than the occasional good game to earn more minutes. He is still a good bench player to have for league minimum and to stop a high scoring player. Funny how I said the same thing 5 years ago but Frank fans have claimed he was more.

Philc1 wrote:Just think we could have extended Frank on a cheap 1 year deal instead of giving Fournier that hideous contract

TripleThreat wrote:

blkexec wrote:Young Knick players usually do better after they leave. It’s not easy to meet expectations of knick fans or this ny media. Glad Frank, bullock and others have found a home. Dallas has about 4 or 5 ex knick players.

All NBA players usually do better when they are in a contract situation that approximates their actual market value and they are playing in the practical role in which they can legitimately carve out a long term playing career.

You keep laying in on this "Blame The Fans" and "Blame The Franchise" routine. Frank N could have just plain worked harder and produced more when he got his opportunities to do so. And he got plenty of opportunity on this team.

Kenny Smith always says it best - For all the guys who are not superstars, just focus on playing the game the right way and finding any way possible to help your team win basketball games, and if you do that and are consistent,all the rest of it, contracts, shoe deals, women, media jobs, etc, etc, if it's meant to happen, it will happen in its own time and don't focus on that.

Frank N was not a relentless dog about getting better and raising the level of his game. His lack of off ball movement was disgusting.

Ntilikina is not a Knick anymore because he didn't earn it with his play.

The reason Frank is not a Knicks, because he FIRED the Knicks President Leon Rose as an agent, a agent who took that to swindled his way into becoming the Knicks president. Frank was never giving a playing-time lineup chance on the Knicks to build an Identity for himself in a lineup. From either President Mills/Perry's 9 player roster change each offseason, plus having 3 different head coaches in 3 seasons.
And Rose/Perry/and Thibs treated Franks 4th season in the NBA the same way Thibs treated Rookie McBride throughout this season.

If the Knicks gave Payton & Frank decent minutes to slow down Trae Young for 3 quarters in the Atlanta Hawks post season games last year, so a refresh PG D.Rose & Quickley's dynamic transition performance could start & take control of the 4th quarter to give the Knicks at least two or 4 wins in that series.
Taking Payton & Frank out of the Knicks rotation after the series was Tied 1-1 .. meant FIRE the COY for 3 straight losses (1-4). Keeping the COY ....
The same COY took Kemba Walker out of the regular season rotation when the Knicks had a 11-9 record 20 games into the season .. No Kemba gave the Knicks a 13-17 record in the next 10 games (Fire the COY) !!!

Jmpasq wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Philc1 wrote:It would have been essentially a 1 year deal. Who cares if it’s $19 million. We’re locked into Randle the black hole for $117 million over 4 years

There was no reason for Ntilikina to resign with the Knicks.

Thibs just won Coach Of The Year. So that means he'd get at least two more seasons as the Knicks head coach. Thibs was not playing Ntilikina and it was evident he'd never actually choose to give him minutes. It's because Frank N is a net negative player on the court and he doesn't actually do his job. His job is to do more than just play wing defense. He's got to help out in other aspects of the game.

Ntilikina's agent would tell him the truth. Go somewhere else and RESTART your Bird Rights clock. That's extremely critical for any NBA player who just had their rights, including their Full Bird Rights, renounced. Go somewhere else where you can get a fresh start and more minutes. And play for a coach who will actually give you minutes.

Consider "giving minutes" versus "earning minutes"

Frank N DID NOT EARN minutes with the Knicks. So he stopped getting them. Play better and you start to get more minutes, that's not rocket science.

Why would the Knicks resign a guy they renounced? Had they locked in that qualifying offer, that's over 7 million in cap space soaked into a player that refuses to help the Knicks win games and Thibs just doesn't like him. That's a waste of a roster spot and cap space.

The 19 million was the "cap hold" which limits FA timeline flexibility. Not his projectible salary. What are you even talking about? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Anyone here saying the Knicks should have resigned Ntilikina to a one year deal, that makes no sense at all. It makes no sense from the Knicks side, from Thibs viewpoint and from Ntilikina's long term career (what's left of it) best pathway.

I didn't want Ntilikina back on the Knicks for any money and Thibs was the reason.

Let me just dispel a myth you are weaving about "earning" minutes.

Players are assets just like chess pieces. Each team gets 17 to do with as they please. It's the FO's job to maximize the flexibility that the coach has to operate with.

Once you devolve into the Barney Ruble mentality of players "earning" minutes you diminish the quality of the job a coach is tasked with. A coach isn't there to pick favorites or grade athletes like a Phys. Ed teacher. They are there to win games with the assets they have. Some coaches need a chess board full of queens to win their game. In the NBA you play with the pieces you have. Maybe you hate the pieces but that's life. Don't pout, don't "teach a player a lesson", maximize the F'n assets and win. Full stop.

When Thibs' Barney Ruble stuff was being exposed by Atlanta it showed his incompetence in creatively adjusting the rotation and play calling to fit the situation. We didn't lose because Frankie and anybody else who could have helped didn't practice hard enough.

That's BS.

I'm happy for Frankie. Good on the Mavs.

Your happy for Franky averaging 2 minutes more than the hell you claim he was in here? The DNP in Jazz series? He played more than 12 minutes in only ONE game of the Sun's series?

Thing with Frank fans is they have NO statistical evidence as to why the Knicks should have kept Frank. Nor do they care about the cost. Just their dreamt up visions that have been in their heads since 2017. With the new one being that a player who never proved much knows more than an experienced COY.

Dude has 12 points in 88 minutes played in the playoffs. Everyone talks about Frank like he is the reason for the Mavs defense. Meanwhile he played 4 minutes in the first half in Game 7 where the Suns scored 27 points

You missing the point, 4 min and suns only scored 27 points indicates how much impact he had!

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Philc1 wrote:It would have been essentially a 1 year deal. Who cares if it’s $19 million. We’re locked into Randle the black hole for $117 million over 4 years

There was no reason for Ntilikina to resign with the Knicks.

Thibs just won Coach Of The Year. So that means he'd get at least two more seasons as the Knicks head coach. Thibs was not playing Ntilikina and it was evident he'd never actually choose to give him minutes. It's because Frank N is a net negative player on the court and he doesn't actually do his job. His job is to do more than just play wing defense. He's got to help out in other aspects of the game.

Ntilikina's agent would tell him the truth. Go somewhere else and RESTART your Bird Rights clock. That's extremely critical for any NBA player who just had their rights, including their Full Bird Rights, renounced. Go somewhere else where you can get a fresh start and more minutes. And play for a coach who will actually give you minutes.

Consider "giving minutes" versus "earning minutes"

Frank N DID NOT EARN minutes with the Knicks. So he stopped getting them. Play better and you start to get more minutes, that's not rocket science.

Why would the Knicks resign a guy they renounced? Had they locked in that qualifying offer, that's over 7 million in cap space soaked into a player that refuses to help the Knicks win games and Thibs just doesn't like him. That's a waste of a roster spot and cap space.

The 19 million was the "cap hold" which limits FA timeline flexibility. Not his projectible salary. What are you even talking about? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Anyone here saying the Knicks should have resigned Ntilikina to a one year deal, that makes no sense at all. It makes no sense from the Knicks side, from Thibs viewpoint and from Ntilikina's long term career (what's left of it) best pathway.

I didn't want Ntilikina back on the Knicks for any money and Thibs was the reason.

Let me just dispel a myth you are weaving about "earning" minutes.

Players are assets just like chess pieces. Each team gets 17 to do with as they please. It's the FO's job to maximize the flexibility that the coach has to operate with.

Once you devolve into the Barney Ruble mentality of players "earning" minutes you diminish the quality of the job a coach is tasked with. A coach isn't there to pick favorites or grade athletes like a Phys. Ed teacher. They are there to win games with the assets they have. Some coaches need a chess board full of queens to win their game. In the NBA you play with the pieces you have. Maybe you hate the pieces but that's life. Don't pout, don't "teach a player a lesson", maximize the F'n assets and win. Full stop.

When Thibs' Barney Ruble stuff was being exposed by Atlanta it showed his incompetence in creatively adjusting the rotation and play calling to fit the situation. We didn't lose because Frankie and anybody else who could have helped didn't practice hard enough.

That's BS.

I'm happy for Frankie. Good on the Mavs.

Your happy for Franky averaging 2 minutes more than the hell you claim he was in here? The DNP in Jazz series? He played more than 12 minutes in only ONE game of the Sun's series?

Thing with Frank fans is they have NO statistical evidence as to why the Knicks should have kept Frank. Nor do they care about the cost. Just their dreamt up visions that have been in their heads since 2017. With the new one being that a player who never proved much knows more than an experienced COY.

Dude has 12 points in 88 minutes played in the playoffs. Everyone talks about Frank like he is the reason for the Mavs defense. Meanwhile he played 4 minutes in the first half in Game 7 where the Suns scored 27 points

You missing the point, 4 min and suns only scored 27 points indicates how much impact he had!

And just look at the impact Frankie's 10 minutes of stellar defense and 0 points had on the 30 point blowout loss last night! Just imagine, we could have signed him!

Think how much worse it would have been if he did not play?

Note the smiley thing that indicates its all funny shyt. The whole debate is baseless.
Issue is if Frank returned, we would not have had Deuce to be our new poster child for abused and mistreated yoot!

Kemet wrote:
The reason Frank is not a Knicks, because he FIRED the Knicks President Leon Rose as an agent, a agent who took that to swindled his way into becoming the Knicks president. Frank was never giving a playing-time lineup chance on the Knicks to build an Identity for himself in a lineup. From either President Mills/Perry's 9 player roster change each offseason, plus having 3 different head coaches in 3 seasons.
And Rose/Perry/and Thibs treated Franks 4th season in the NBA the same way Thibs treated Rookie McBride throughout this season.

If the Knicks gave Payton & Frank decent minutes to slow down Trae Young for 3 quarters in the Atlanta Hawks post season games last year, so a refresh PG D.Rose & Quickley's dynamic transition performance could start & take control of the 4th quarter to give the Knicks at least two or 4 wins in that series.
Taking Payton & Frank out of the Knicks rotation after the series was Tied 1-1 .. meant FIRE the COY for 3 straight losses (1-4). Keeping the COY ....
The same COY took Kemba Walker out of the regular season rotation when the Knicks had a 11-9 record 20 games into the season .. No Kemba gave the Knicks a 13-17 record in the next 10 games (Fire the COY) !!!

Chandler wrote:Am I the only one who thinks TT’s squirrel should be the official mascot for UK forum and knicks fans more generally?

Probably.

Jmpasq wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Philc1 wrote:It would have been essentially a 1 year deal. Who cares if it’s $19 million. We’re locked into Randle the black hole for $117 million over 4 years

There was no reason for Ntilikina to resign with the Knicks.

Thibs just won Coach Of The Year. So that means he'd get at least two more seasons as the Knicks head coach. Thibs was not playing Ntilikina and it was evident he'd never actually choose to give him minutes. It's because Frank N is a net negative player on the court and he doesn't actually do his job. His job is to do more than just play wing defense. He's got to help out in other aspects of the game.

Ntilikina's agent would tell him the truth. Go somewhere else and RESTART your Bird Rights clock. That's extremely critical for any NBA player who just had their rights, including their Full Bird Rights, renounced. Go somewhere else where you can get a fresh start and more minutes. And play for a coach who will actually give you minutes.

Consider "giving minutes" versus "earning minutes"

Frank N DID NOT EARN minutes with the Knicks. So he stopped getting them. Play better and you start to get more minutes, that's not rocket science.

Why would the Knicks resign a guy they renounced? Had they locked in that qualifying offer, that's over 7 million in cap space soaked into a player that refuses to help the Knicks win games and Thibs just doesn't like him. That's a waste of a roster spot and cap space.

The 19 million was the "cap hold" which limits FA timeline flexibility. Not his projectible salary. What are you even talking about? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Anyone here saying the Knicks should have resigned Ntilikina to a one year deal, that makes no sense at all. It makes no sense from the Knicks side, from Thibs viewpoint and from Ntilikina's long term career (what's left of it) best pathway.

I didn't want Ntilikina back on the Knicks for any money and Thibs was the reason.

Let me just dispel a myth you are weaving about "earning" minutes.

Players are assets just like chess pieces. Each team gets 17 to do with as they please. It's the FO's job to maximize the flexibility that the coach has to operate with.

Once you devolve into the Barney Ruble mentality of players "earning" minutes you diminish the quality of the job a coach is tasked with. A coach isn't there to pick favorites or grade athletes like a Phys. Ed teacher. They are there to win games with the assets they have. Some coaches need a chess board full of queens to win their game. In the NBA you play with the pieces you have. Maybe you hate the pieces but that's life. Don't pout, don't "teach a player a lesson", maximize the F'n assets and win. Full stop.

When Thibs' Barney Ruble stuff was being exposed by Atlanta it showed his incompetence in creatively adjusting the rotation and play calling to fit the situation. We didn't lose because Frankie and anybody else who could have helped didn't practice hard enough.

That's BS.

I'm happy for Frankie. Good on the Mavs.

Your happy for Franky averaging 2 minutes more than the hell you claim he was in here? The DNP in Jazz series? He played more than 12 minutes in only ONE game of the Sun's series?

Thing with Frank fans is they have NO statistical evidence as to why the Knicks should have kept Frank. Nor do they care about the cost. Just their dreamt up visions that have been in their heads since 2017. With the new one being that a player who never proved much knows more than an experienced COY.

Dude has 12 points in 88 minutes played in the playoffs. Everyone talks about Frank like he is the reason for the Mavs defense. Meanwhile he played 4 minutes in the first half in Game 7 where the Suns scored 27 points

And meanwhile Evan Fournier is relaxing on the golf course with his $80 million contract. Yay us

Marv wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Chandler wrote:Am I the only one who thinks TT’s squirrel should be the official mascot for UK forum and knicks fans more generally?

Probably.

no i'm down

that squirrel is boss

we gotta give him a name that exemplifies the franchise for the last 20 years

i vote for marbs the squirrel

next episode shows the little bastard scurrying to get the lid off a vaseline jar

the twirly feeder thing symbolizes team success

and we/squirrel get spun around and flung every time

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Philc1 wrote:It would have been essentially a 1 year deal. Who cares if it’s $19 million. We’re locked into Randle the black hole for $117 million over 4 years

There was no reason for Ntilikina to resign with the Knicks.

Thibs just won Coach Of The Year. So that means he'd get at least two more seasons as the Knicks head coach. Thibs was not playing Ntilikina and it was evident he'd never actually choose to give him minutes. It's because Frank N is a net negative player on the court and he doesn't actually do his job. His job is to do more than just play wing defense. He's got to help out in other aspects of the game.

Ntilikina's agent would tell him the truth. Go somewhere else and RESTART your Bird Rights clock. That's extremely critical for any NBA player who just had their rights, including their Full Bird Rights, renounced. Go somewhere else where you can get a fresh start and more minutes. And play for a coach who will actually give you minutes.

Consider "giving minutes" versus "earning minutes"

Frank N DID NOT EARN minutes with the Knicks. So he stopped getting them. Play better and you start to get more minutes, that's not rocket science.

Why would the Knicks resign a guy they renounced? Had they locked in that qualifying offer, that's over 7 million in cap space soaked into a player that refuses to help the Knicks win games and Thibs just doesn't like him. That's a waste of a roster spot and cap space.

The 19 million was the "cap hold" which limits FA timeline flexibility. Not his projectible salary. What are you even talking about? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Anyone here saying the Knicks should have resigned Ntilikina to a one year deal, that makes no sense at all. It makes no sense from the Knicks side, from Thibs viewpoint and from Ntilikina's long term career (what's left of it) best pathway.

I didn't want Ntilikina back on the Knicks for any money and Thibs was the reason.

Let me just dispel a myth you are weaving about "earning" minutes.

Players are assets just like chess pieces. Each team gets 17 to do with as they please. It's the FO's job to maximize the flexibility that the coach has to operate with.

Once you devolve into the Barney Ruble mentality of players "earning" minutes you diminish the quality of the job a coach is tasked with. A coach isn't there to pick favorites or grade athletes like a Phys. Ed teacher. They are there to win games with the assets they have. Some coaches need a chess board full of queens to win their game. In the NBA you play with the pieces you have. Maybe you hate the pieces but that's life. Don't pout, don't "teach a player a lesson", maximize the F'n assets and win. Full stop.

When Thibs' Barney Ruble stuff was being exposed by Atlanta it showed his incompetence in creatively adjusting the rotation and play calling to fit the situation. We didn't lose because Frankie and anybody else who could have helped didn't practice hard enough.

That's BS.

I'm happy for Frankie. Good on the Mavs.

Your happy for Franky averaging 2 minutes more than the hell you claim he was in here? The DNP in Jazz series? He played more than 12 minutes in only ONE game of the Sun's series?

Thing with Frank fans is they have NO statistical evidence as to why the Knicks should have kept Frank. Nor do they care about the cost. Just their dreamt up visions that have been in their heads since 2017. With the new one being that a player who never proved much knows more than an experienced COY.

Dude has 12 points in 88 minutes played in the playoffs. Everyone talks about Frank like he is the reason for the Mavs defense. Meanwhile he played 4 minutes in the first half in Game 7 where the Suns scored 27 points

And meanwhile Evan Fournier is relaxing on the golf course with his $80 million contract. Yay us

- Fournier's contract is 3 Years $54M with a 4th year TEAM OPTION @ $19M. He also has $6M in incentives which are unlikely to be achieved.

- Fournier is sitting on the golf course because the Knicks best player decided to stop taking his Zoloft this year and because the Knicks decided to play PG'less for a significant portion of the year.