So Trump is the only one who is actually threatening to mess up a fairly stable situation. Trump is taking over a situation that is primed for huge success if he manages things right, but can he do that? There are some concerns with Europe and the coming Elections and of course Russia and North Korea. Will he mess things up by destabilizing the rest of the world with his recklessness and impulsive behavior?

arkrud wrote:

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holfresh wrote:Israel reaches out to Trump to undercut a UN vote against Israel regarding settlements in Palestinian territory that Obama was going to allow...Trump tweets, Egypt drops vote at the UN...Trump undercuts Obama's authority before taking office...Unprecedented...

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/811928543366148096

This is just underscoring that the fears of this man's unsuitability for office are well founded. We are seeing warning signs all over the place and he's not even sworn in yet!!! This guy is DANGEROUS!!! He's swinging a flare in a room full of TNT and Nitro.

Not a big deal.
Israel gives no rat as..ss about this resolutions.
One more one less.
Sisi junta need US support moving forward so they do not want to anger future POTUS and his pro-Jew team.
The resolution will still be put forward by other non-permanent members and Obama can still abstain as he planned.
So it is pure political show between Egypt and future US government.

Sisi wants his annual funding increased just like Israel just got their increase from 3 billion to 3.8 billion per year for the next decade...Sisi is looking for the same..So in proxy, the US tax payers are paying for Israel's land grab against the Palestinians..

PLUS the real issue here is that the things Trump and Netanyahu are likely to do will inflame things in the Muslim world. DO we really need to be stirring up that wasps nest??? I'm telling you Trump is dangerous and he's gonna F things up with his shoot from the hip style. He doesn't think things thru to any logical conclusion. He doesn't weigh the possible pitfalls of his actions. He just wants to Cowboy his way thru everything like it's the 80's.

Its not land grab but getting back what is theirs.
Palestinians are artificially created nation with the only purpose to fight Israel.
They are not capable of governing anything which is widely documented fact.
Jews finance Israel and Arab powers and anti-Semitic Europeans finance Palestinians.
Regular struggle which is going on for hundreds year already and will go on.

America is an artificially created nation- all nations are artificial creations, including Israel. Palestinians have legitimate grievances- could you imagine if Europe had funded a an African American uprising to right the injustices of the slave trade, or a native american uprising that led to their own nations being forged in the USA, driving the white people out? There is such a double standard. Palestinians are not a sub-species, yet they are treated in a way that would not be deemed acceptable by the international community if it were done to any other ethnic group.

No idea what the solution is now because both sides have legitimate grievances, but I'm pretty sure Trump isn't going to consider fairness- I dread to think what he'll do.

Palestinians are Arab tribes. Arabs have tens of countries.
Palestinians should have leave in any but were prosecuted, massacred, and exiled by fellow Arabs.
Other Arab nations don't want then closer that the shot distance.
More that million of Palestinian Arabs leave in Israel.
They do have ways to go to get the full trust of the rest of the country but they do not want and do not forced out.
If they really wanted to have piece they should do some concession.
Settle the territorial issue and then govern. For now it is just terrorist enclave like ISIS Caliphate.

Who are the Palestinians?

Blood Brothers: Palestinians and Jews Share Genetic Roots
Jews break down into three genetic groups, all of which have Middle Eastern origins – which are shared with the Palestinians and Druze.

Josie Glausiusz Oct 20, 2015 2:38 PM

Confronted by the violence sweeping over Israel, it can be easy to overlook the things that Jews and Palestinians share: a deep attachment to the same sliver of contested land, a shared appetite for hummus, a common tradition of descent from the patriarch Abraham, and, as scientific research shows - a common genetic ancestry, as well.

Several major studies published in the past five years attest to these ancient hereditary links. At the forefront of these efforts are two researchers: Harry Ostrer, professor of pediatrics and pathology at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx, New York, and Karl Skorecki, director of medical and research development at the Rambam Health Care Campus in Haifa. Back in June 2010, and within two days of each other, the two scientists and their research teams published extensive analyses of the genetic origins of the Jewish people and their Near East ancestry.

“The closest genetic neighbors to most Jewish groups were the Palestinians, Israeli Bedouins, and Druze in addition to the Southern Europeans, including Cypriots,” as Ostrer and Skorecki wrote in a review of their findings that they co-authored in the journal Human Genetics in October 2012.

“Karl and I are good friends,” Ostrer told Haaretz by telephone from New York. “We used somewhat different analytical methods—there’s no claim there for superiority, or one side versus the other.” In their results, as well, “there was really very little difference at all.”
Ostrer’s research on “Abraham’s Children in the Genome Era,” published in The American Journal of Human Genetics, sampled 652,000 gene variants from each of 237 unrelated individuals from seven Jewish populations: Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Italian, Turkish, Greek and Ashkenazi. These sequences were then compared with reference samples from non-Jews drawn from The Human Genome Diversity Project, a global database of genetic information gathered from populations across the world.

Each of the Jewish populations, they found, “formed its own distinctive cluster,” indicating their shared ancestry and “relative genetic isolation.”

Ostrer’s team also identified two major groups of Jews: Middle Eastern Jews (Iranian and Iraqi) and European/Syrian Jews. The split between these two groups of Jews occurred some 2,500 years ago.

Cousins with the Druze and French

Both groups of Jews shared ancestry with contemporary Middle Eastern and Southern European populations. The closest genetic relatives of the Middle Eastern Jews are Druze, Bedouin and Palestinians. The closest genetic relatives of the European group of Jews are Northern Italians, followed by Sardinians and French.

In a 2012 study, Ostrer identified North African Jews as a third major group. In Skorecki’s study on the genome-wide structure of the Jewish people,  published in the journal Nature, he and his fellow researchers sampled tens of thousands of genetic variants from the genomes of 121 individuals hailing from 14 Jewish Diaspora communities, and compared these variants with samples drawn from 1,166 individuals from 69 Old World non-Jewish populations.

They found that Jews from the Caucasus (Azerbaijan and Georgia), the Middle East (Iran and Iraq) North Africa (Morocco) and Sephardi and Ashkenazi communities, as well as Samaritans, form a “tight cluster” that overlaps with Israeli Druze.

This, the authors write, “is consistent with an ancestral Levantine contribution to much of contemporary Jewry.”
In addition, a “compact cluster” of Yemenite Jews “overlaps primarily with Bedouins but also with Saudi individuals.” Ethiopian and Indian Jews are more closely related to their own neighboring, host populations.

Middle East origins in European Jews

Further evidence for the Middle Eastern origins of Ashjenazi Jews came from a study published in 2014: In that research, which appeared in Nature Communications, a team led by Shai Carmi of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem sequenced the complete genomes of 128 people of Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry. Their analysis revealed that the Ashkenazi Jewish population is “an even mix” of European and Middle Eastern ancestral populations—suggesting, as Carmi writes on the web site of The Ashkenazi Genome Consortium (TAGC), “a sex-biased process, where, say, Middle-Eastern Jewish men married European non-Jewish women.”

Are these genetic ties between Jews, Palestinians, Bedouin, and Druze important in a contemporary context? “It doesn’t matter to me personally,” Skorecki says, “since I think that global human identity supersedes all other considerations.”

“We want to know who we are and where we came from,” Ostrer, who is now studying cancer risks among Ashkenazi Jews and Northern Israeli Druze populations, sums up. Even so, shared ancestry doesn’t necessarily imply a special bond. As Ostrer notes, citing the Biblical tale of Cain and Abel, “the fact that people are related to one another doesn’t prevent their developing extreme hostility to one another.”

meloshouldgo wrote:

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newyorknewyork wrote:

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djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is not an African American Problem!!! This is about the larger White Society that has allowed this kind of crap to continue to go on!!! If I keep burning your house down no matter where you go and what you do to try and prevent it, is that your fault??? NO YOU'RE BEING ATTACKED!!!

This is what is happening and has always happened to African Americans, Native Americans and other Minorities. They are just trying to live like every average American but they have powerful forces who are constantly doing detrimental things to AA's. Such as Police Forces that over-police Black Neighborhoods like Stop and Frisk and extract money to pay for the Cities needs like Ferguson. Predatory Lending. Longer Sentences for the same crimes. Voter Suppression Laws. etc.

Arkrud you keep thinking that AA's and those who support them have somehow not been working to try and change things. There has ALWAYS been efforts to change things for the better. Perhaps you simply aren't paying attention to what has been presented in this thread. This is also about the Poor and Middle Class, but as i've pointed out before, there are people who don't want Poor and Middle Class of all Races to come together. This has been the fear of those in power since the beginning.

This is why I posted the racist political ad above. It proves that this is a tactic that has been used since the end of the Civil War.

There have always been multiracial efforts to fight against this. This is Frederick Douglas and White Abolitionists.

Do you get it now???

I never denied anything that you said.
I interact with many AA people every day and cannot see them being any different from other folks and cannot see them being treated differently.
I guess I never lived in areas where is not like that.
Lived in Brooklyn and in NJ in various counties and all is pretty civilized out there.
I do not even pay attention to race, color, and accents at all because this is irrelevant to me.

Well MOST African Americans don't live in NYC!!! The vast Majority are living where they've always lived in the Old Slave States. It's called the Black Belt. These states have a history of mistreating AA's and the Laws are constantly being written to disadvantage AA's in every way they can get away with. Sure you can sue but they just come up with another law and you're constantly chasing and fighting which doesn't leave much time or money for people to PROGRESS!!!

This is what i've been trying to explain to you. Perhaps now you are ready to accept that this is a very difficult situation. The People in these areas are STUBBORN and were brought up with the Racist Mentality from the Old Days. There are some who want to change that but there is a very large group that doesn't want change! Why do you think they've had Segregated Proms even up to recent years???

Once you get out of the Big Cities it's pretty much like going back in time in the rest of the country!!! There's a certain order of things in Rural America and it's the Old Order that still dominates. In the South we have Holidays you don't have!

8 States Still Have Holidays Celebrating The Confederacy

Over 150 years ago, the state of Alabama took up arms against the United States in order to defend the state’s practice of enslaving black people and forcing them to work to enrich white property owners. Today, the state celebrates its four years of treason in defense of slavery with a statewide holiday.

Under Alabama law, the fourth Monday in April is “Confederate Memorial Day” — and this is actually one of two Confederate-themed holidays celebrated by the state. State law also recognizes the first Monday in January as a celebration of Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s birthday. State offices, courts, and licensing offices are all closed on Monday because of the state holiday.

Nor is Alabama alone in using today to celebrate the Confederacy. Mississippi also celebrates Confederate Memorial Day, although Mississippi state offices will only close “at the discretion of the executive head of the department or agency.” Until recently, Georgia celebrated the same holiday — in 2015, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) renamed Confederate Memorial Day with the generic term “state holiday.”

In total, eight states — Alabama, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Texas — still celebrate some sort of Confederate holiday, although the nature of the celebration (and whether state workers get the day off) varies from state to state. Texas’ holiday, which the state celebrated on January 19th, is called “Confederate Heroes Day.” Meanwhile, Virginia has long used its Confederate holiday as a counterbalance to the federal holiday honoring a fallen civil rights leader.

Shortly after federal legislation created a national holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Virginia combined that holiday with another celebration honoring Confederate Generals Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson. This “Lee-Jackson-King Day” existed until 2000, when it was split into two holidays.

Now, Virginia honors the man who died advancing the cause of racial justice on a Monday and the two men who fought to maintain slavery on the proceeding Friday.

https://thinkprogress.org/8-states-still-have-holidays-celebrating-the-confederacy-886db691da54#.xyei56s03

It is difficult to me and most new emigrants who are not leaving in the South to get into your shoes but I can relate.
I was leaving in the countries where antisemitism is the second nature of the absolute majority of the population.
It was no other way to survive and stop leaving in fear but to leave.
This what makes us refugees.
And this people who we left behind will not get better. They will find some other way to separate and abuse somebody.
Until they will self-destruct.
We can see this self-distraction happening all over the world. The ricochet.
But people never learn... so may be it is fair at the end.

It used to be that European Immigrants were mistreated in America by Native Born White Americans. Over time they were able to blend into the larger White Society. That doesn't work for Non White people here. I can't just blend in.

Originally there were White Indentured Servants in America but they were not slaves for life. Then they decided that the easier path was to make a law that Negro Servants should be Slaves for life. Skin color made an easy way to establish the order of class in American society.

AFRICANS ARRIVE IN VIRGINIA, 1619

The social status of the first Africans in Jamestown was confusing, and perhaps deliberately ambiguous. Records from 1623 and 1624 list the black inhabitants of the colony as servants, not slaves. In these same records, however, white indentured servants are listed along with the year in which they were to attain freedom; no such year accompanies the names of black servants. Freedom was the birthright of William Tucker, the first African born in the colonies. Yet court records show that at least one African had been declared a slave by 1640, the year that slavery was officially instituted in Jamestown. After the legalization of slavery by the Virginia colony, the African population began to rise slowly and steadily. The number of blacks increased from 23 in 1625 to approximately three hundred in 1650.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/africans-arrive-virginia-1619

Works same way for Africans, Indians, Chines, Argentinians, and others as for Europeans.
I know a couple of people personally. They came to US from Kenya and Nigeria and do quite well.
They do notice some police profiling but after actual conversations with officers thay have no farther issues.
I am not saying that there are no issues. They are. But not as drastic as you portrait.

HOW THE PHUCK WOULD YOU KNOW???

You know you say a lot of dumb shyte! Come down here and hangout with some of the Sons of the Confederacy on Confederates Day and see what you think. It's a very convenient thing to be smug and flippant when you live in a Big City in the North East per se but not everyone is so fortunate. Some people have never escaped the ravages of Slavery and Jim Crow and that poverty and lack of education has them trapped in bad situations.

You need to get in a car and travel the country. Don't go to all the glamorous hot spots. Go into the backwaters and small towns and you might learn something.

I am not hanging out with racists of any color or nation.
And they exist of any kind.
I knew some racist Jews and they are disgusting regardless of justifications they try to sell.
Think about what you are saying yourself "...very convenient thing to be smug and flippant when you live in a Big City in the North East per se but not everyone is so fortunate." Do you really know all this people and the issues they have in their life? Do you think they all deserve your dismissal?
Anger and hate are bad for anyone... they became like those who they hate and start hating the whole world. Why to self-distract?

My father is very distrustful of White people. He of course was born in the 1940's and his life experiences with White people were not good. I didn't know anything about this kind of experience since my best friend growing up in Queens was White. We we started out in kindergarten and now both of us are grandparents. I of course have had my own run ins with White Racists but unlike my father I had the benefit of growing up in an integrated society and yet even I realize things were not just or equal for everyone.

You are trying to put me in the category of a racist or bigot when all I'm doing is stating the facts about how things are and why. You have a convenient situation that allows you to look for moral equivalence but if you were an African American in this country your entire life you would not have had this luxury!!! I didn't have it being chased along a country road as a child by the KKK. You would've been running right alongside me if you were there! Don't tell me anything about racism.

This is a problem. You don't want to hear anything that shaking your view of the world.
That's why you recycling the same arguments ignoring most of my points.
Contrary I am open to change my views and I did already based on our conversation.
World is changing every moment so should our view.
Its not a problem, it is strength.
Flexibility and acceptance is a key to individual and societal success.
I am just sharing the knowledge I have and which worked wonders for a lot of people.
You a welcome to use it or reject it. It is up to you.

Arkrud you don't know what you don't know! That's the problem. You can't drop in and try to teach me about this country that my family has been in since before the American Revolution!!! You don't understand the dynamics of life in this country. You're relatively new and instead of being humble about your lack of knowledge you're arrogantly trying to lecture us about subjects you don't fully understand.

I wish things were so simple as you think they are. I can assure you that the solutions are not just about African Americans working harder. That is F'n insulting in addition to being flat out wrong. People of color have been disadvantaged by this system for a very long time and it's still happening only the tactics are less overt. If you have to spend so much effort, time and money trying to overcome these obstacles how can you ever make progress?

What you fail to recognize is that AA's already started off with less and with the negative impact of poverty and poor education. Then pile on top of that a system built to disadvantage them and keep them from power over their lives and do this for a few hundred years. It's going to have long lasting impact. If you're poor and living in a Black neighborhood there aren't the same resources available. No fresh food but plenty of liquor stores and drug dealers. Food deserts are a very real thing. There are so many issues I can point to and it's not an accident that things are like this. Redlinig and packing AA's into ghettos was done on purpose and still goes on!!! Man I'm done talking to you cuz you have nothing to add to this conversation.

Yep. So do you.
We are like two ships in the open ocean.
We met, exchange the horns, and went in opposite directions.
Its fine. Ocean is huge. Every ship will find his cost.
But do not stuck in you misery, the world is a beautiful place.
Don't worry, Be happy!!!

Man you have no idea what you're talking about. I have a lovely family. I have a wonderful active life and I have a lot of people I work with that look to help less fortunate and oppressed people. There is no need for you to try and lecture me about being happy. The world can be a beautiful place but it can also be an ugly place if you don't actually work to try and correct the wrongs. I know what I do working with youth and community organizations. I don't just talk Shyte on a forum. I especially don't need to be told to "work hard" that's for sure!!!

I agree, I also work with children and young people, survivors of sexual abuse etc- there are some absolute horrors in the world, and just pretending not to see or acknowledge them does not make it go away- in fact it helps sustain it because it means you don't confront or challenge it.

It's great work. Very important.
And I agree 100% with this approach.
This what really make a difference not politics.
If politicians will just stay away and let people do what their heart and soul asks it will be much less struggle and atrocities in the world.
Hopefully they will neutralize each other corrupt influence on world and local affairs.

We need GOOD government. You can't address everything by simply wishing and hoping good people will be able to defeat bad people. If that was the method that Abolitionists and Civil Rights fighters took, we'd still be in an awful situation in this country. NOTHING good in this country came about without a MASSIVE struggle. They had to fight a bloody Civil War to get rid of Slavery. People Died and they had to send in the National Guard to gain Civil Rights and end most of Jim Crow. There are still vestiges of this fight left and people on the wrong side of this fight are still trying to disadvantage people. That's why we need good Government that actually serves the people and not Big Business or those who wish to maintain the Old Order of things.

This is why people are worried about Trump. His actions and rhetoric suggest he's not on the side of the people who have been disenfranchised and marginalized historically. Trump used the old Divide and Conquer Southern Strategy, which scares the hell out of Minorities. Trump has staffed his administration with only RICH and BIG BUSINESS people. These are not the champions of the poor and downtrodden. We've seen this movie before and it doesn't have a good ending.

WE need fiscally responsible and efficient governing

Now go ahead and define what that means to you.

One early example is Airforce One. It costs the country $400 Billion for the President and his officials to fly around. That is half of Obama's $800 Billion stimulus plan. Trump is negotiating with different manufactures to get a better deal. Not for himself but for the country.

That is just one example of how he will drain the swamp. He is a business man not a politician. Why should people in government have such lavish lifestyles. Not so much the President who is representing the country but all the others in government from federal, state & local at the expense of the hardworking American public? Whether they are billionaires or making 25-50k.

The left establishment wants to put the blame squarely on wealthy businessmen who sacrificed hard work and provide jobs for American so they can live can live a life of luxury and not be questioned. They media use the media as a critical tool to brainwash and distract Americans so they get their way.

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nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is not an African American Problem!!! This is about the larger White Society that has allowed this kind of crap to continue to go on!!! If I keep burning your house down no matter where you go and what you do to try and prevent it, is that your fault??? NO YOU'RE BEING ATTACKED!!!

This is what is happening and has always happened to African Americans, Native Americans and other Minorities. They are just trying to live like every average American but they have powerful forces who are constantly doing detrimental things to AA's. Such as Police Forces that over-police Black Neighborhoods like Stop and Frisk and extract money to pay for the Cities needs like Ferguson. Predatory Lending. Longer Sentences for the same crimes. Voter Suppression Laws. etc.

Arkrud you keep thinking that AA's and those who support them have somehow not been working to try and change things. There has ALWAYS been efforts to change things for the better. Perhaps you simply aren't paying attention to what has been presented in this thread. This is also about the Poor and Middle Class, but as i've pointed out before, there are people who don't want Poor and Middle Class of all Races to come together. This has been the fear of those in power since the beginning.

This is why I posted the racist political ad above. It proves that this is a tactic that has been used since the end of the Civil War.

There have always been multiracial efforts to fight against this. This is Frederick Douglas and White Abolitionists.

Do you get it now???

I never denied anything that you said.
I interact with many AA people every day and cannot see them being any different from other folks and cannot see them being treated differently.
I guess I never lived in areas where is not like that.
Lived in Brooklyn and in NJ in various counties and all is pretty civilized out there.
I do not even pay attention to race, color, and accents at all because this is irrelevant to me.

Well MOST African Americans don't live in NYC!!! The vast Majority are living where they've always lived in the Old Slave States. It's called the Black Belt. These states have a history of mistreating AA's and the Laws are constantly being written to disadvantage AA's in every way they can get away with. Sure you can sue but they just come up with another law and you're constantly chasing and fighting which doesn't leave much time or money for people to PROGRESS!!!

This is what i've been trying to explain to you. Perhaps now you are ready to accept that this is a very difficult situation. The People in these areas are STUBBORN and were brought up with the Racist Mentality from the Old Days. There are some who want to change that but there is a very large group that doesn't want change! Why do you think they've had Segregated Proms even up to recent years???

Once you get out of the Big Cities it's pretty much like going back in time in the rest of the country!!! There's a certain order of things in Rural America and it's the Old Order that still dominates. In the South we have Holidays you don't have!

8 States Still Have Holidays Celebrating The Confederacy

Over 150 years ago, the state of Alabama took up arms against the United States in order to defend the state’s practice of enslaving black people and forcing them to work to enrich white property owners. Today, the state celebrates its four years of treason in defense of slavery with a statewide holiday.

Under Alabama law, the fourth Monday in April is “Confederate Memorial Day” — and this is actually one of two Confederate-themed holidays celebrated by the state. State law also recognizes the first Monday in January as a celebration of Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s birthday. State offices, courts, and licensing offices are all closed on Monday because of the state holiday.

Nor is Alabama alone in using today to celebrate the Confederacy. Mississippi also celebrates Confederate Memorial Day, although Mississippi state offices will only close “at the discretion of the executive head of the department or agency.” Until recently, Georgia celebrated the same holiday — in 2015, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) renamed Confederate Memorial Day with the generic term “state holiday.”

In total, eight states — Alabama, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Texas — still celebrate some sort of Confederate holiday, although the nature of the celebration (and whether state workers get the day off) varies from state to state. Texas’ holiday, which the state celebrated on January 19th, is called “Confederate Heroes Day.” Meanwhile, Virginia has long used its Confederate holiday as a counterbalance to the federal holiday honoring a fallen civil rights leader.

Shortly after federal legislation created a national holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Virginia combined that holiday with another celebration honoring Confederate Generals Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson. This “Lee-Jackson-King Day” existed until 2000, when it was split into two holidays.

Now, Virginia honors the man who died advancing the cause of racial justice on a Monday and the two men who fought to maintain slavery on the proceeding Friday.

https://thinkprogress.org/8-states-still-have-holidays-celebrating-the-confederacy-886db691da54#.xyei56s03

It is difficult to me and most new emigrants who are not leaving in the South to get into your shoes but I can relate.
I was leaving in the countries where antisemitism is the second nature of the absolute majority of the population.
It was no other way to survive and stop leaving in fear but to leave.
This what makes us refugees.
And this people who we left behind will not get better. They will find some other way to separate and abuse somebody.
Until they will self-destruct.
We can see this self-distraction happening all over the world. The ricochet.
But people never learn... so may be it is fair at the end.

It used to be that European Immigrants were mistreated in America by Native Born White Americans. Over time they were able to blend into the larger White Society. That doesn't work for Non White people here. I can't just blend in.

Originally there were White Indentured Servants in America but they were not slaves for life. Then they decided that the easier path was to make a law that Negro Servants should be Slaves for life. Skin color made an easy way to establish the order of class in American society.

AFRICANS ARRIVE IN VIRGINIA, 1619

The social status of the first Africans in Jamestown was confusing, and perhaps deliberately ambiguous. Records from 1623 and 1624 list the black inhabitants of the colony as servants, not slaves. In these same records, however, white indentured servants are listed along with the year in which they were to attain freedom; no such year accompanies the names of black servants. Freedom was the birthright of William Tucker, the first African born in the colonies. Yet court records show that at least one African had been declared a slave by 1640, the year that slavery was officially instituted in Jamestown. After the legalization of slavery by the Virginia colony, the African population began to rise slowly and steadily. The number of blacks increased from 23 in 1625 to approximately three hundred in 1650.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/africans-arrive-virginia-1619

Works same way for Africans, Indians, Chines, Argentinians, and others as for Europeans.
I know a couple of people personally. They came to US from Kenya and Nigeria and do quite well.
They do notice some police profiling but after actual conversations with officers thay have no farther issues.
I am not saying that there are no issues. They are. But not as drastic as you portrait.

HOW THE PHUCK WOULD YOU KNOW???

You know you say a lot of dumb shyte! Come down here and hangout with some of the Sons of the Confederacy on Confederates Day and see what you think. It's a very convenient thing to be smug and flippant when you live in a Big City in the North East per se but not everyone is so fortunate. Some people have never escaped the ravages of Slavery and Jim Crow and that poverty and lack of education has them trapped in bad situations.

You need to get in a car and travel the country. Don't go to all the glamorous hot spots. Go into the backwaters and small towns and you might learn something.

I am not hanging out with racists of any color or nation.
And they exist of any kind.
I knew some racist Jews and they are disgusting regardless of justifications they try to sell.
Think about what you are saying yourself "...very convenient thing to be smug and flippant when you live in a Big City in the North East per se but not everyone is so fortunate." Do you really know all this people and the issues they have in their life? Do you think they all deserve your dismissal?
Anger and hate are bad for anyone... they became like those who they hate and start hating the whole world. Why to self-distract?

My father is very distrustful of White people. He of course was born in the 1940's and his life experiences with White people were not good. I didn't know anything about this kind of experience since my best friend growing up in Queens was White. We we started out in kindergarten and now both of us are grandparents. I of course have had my own run ins with White Racists but unlike my father I had the benefit of growing up in an integrated society and yet even I realize things were not just or equal for everyone.

You are trying to put me in the category of a racist or bigot when all I'm doing is stating the facts about how things are and why. You have a convenient situation that allows you to look for moral equivalence but if you were an African American in this country your entire life you would not have had this luxury!!! I didn't have it being chased along a country road as a child by the KKK. You would've been running right alongside me if you were there! Don't tell me anything about racism.

This is a problem. You don't want to hear anything that shaking your view of the world.
That's why you recycling the same arguments ignoring most of my points.
Contrary I am open to change my views and I did already based on our conversation.
World is changing every moment so should our view.
Its not a problem, it is strength.
Flexibility and acceptance is a key to individual and societal success.
I am just sharing the knowledge I have and which worked wonders for a lot of people.
You a welcome to use it or reject it. It is up to you.

Arkrud you don't know what you don't know! That's the problem. You can't drop in and try to teach me about this country that my family has been in since before the American Revolution!!! You don't understand the dynamics of life in this country. You're relatively new and instead of being humble about your lack of knowledge you're arrogantly trying to lecture us about subjects you don't fully understand.

I wish things were so simple as you think they are. I can assure you that the solutions are not just about African Americans working harder. That is F'n insulting in addition to being flat out wrong. People of color have been disadvantaged by this system for a very long time and it's still happening only the tactics are less overt. If you have to spend so much effort, time and money trying to overcome these obstacles how can you ever make progress?

What you fail to recognize is that AA's already started off with less and with the negative impact of poverty and poor education. Then pile on top of that a system built to disadvantage them and keep them from power over their lives and do this for a few hundred years. It's going to have long lasting impact. If you're poor and living in a Black neighborhood there aren't the same resources available. No fresh food but plenty of liquor stores and drug dealers. Food deserts are a very real thing. There are so many issues I can point to and it's not an accident that things are like this. Redlinig and packing AA's into ghettos was done on purpose and still goes on!!! Man I'm done talking to you cuz you have nothing to add to this conversation.

Yep. So do you.
We are like two ships in the open ocean.
We met, exchange the horns, and went in opposite directions.
Its fine. Ocean is huge. Every ship will find his cost.
But do not stuck in you misery, the world is a beautiful place.
Don't worry, Be happy!!!

Man you have no idea what you're talking about. I have a lovely family. I have a wonderful active life and I have a lot of people I work with that look to help less fortunate and oppressed people. There is no need for you to try and lecture me about being happy. The world can be a beautiful place but it can also be an ugly place if you don't actually work to try and correct the wrongs. I know what I do working with youth and community organizations. I don't just talk Shyte on a forum. I especially don't need to be told to "work hard" that's for sure!!!

I agree, I also work with children and young people, survivors of sexual abuse etc- there are some absolute horrors in the world, and just pretending not to see or acknowledge them does not make it go away- in fact it helps sustain it because it means you don't confront or challenge it.

It's great work. Very important.
And I agree 100% with this approach.
This what really make a difference not politics.
If politicians will just stay away and let people do what their heart and soul asks it will be much less struggle and atrocities in the world.
Hopefully they will neutralize each other corrupt influence on world and local affairs.

We need GOOD government. You can't address everything by simply wishing and hoping good people will be able to defeat bad people. If that was the method that Abolitionists and Civil Rights fighters took, we'd still be in an awful situation in this country. NOTHING good in this country came about without a MASSIVE struggle. They had to fight a bloody Civil War to get rid of Slavery. People Died and they had to send in the National Guard to gain Civil Rights and end most of Jim Crow. There are still vestiges of this fight left and people on the wrong side of this fight are still trying to disadvantage people. That's why we need good Government that actually serves the people and not Big Business or those who wish to maintain the Old Order of things.

This is why people are worried about Trump. His actions and rhetoric suggest he's not on the side of the people who have been disenfranchised and marginalized historically. Trump used the old Divide and Conquer Southern Strategy, which scares the hell out of Minorities. Trump has staffed his administration with only RICH and BIG BUSINESS people. These are not the champions of the poor and downtrodden. We've seen this movie before and it doesn't have a good ending.

WE need fiscally responsible and efficient governing

Now go ahead and define what that means to you.

One early example is Airforce One. It costs the country $400 Billion for the President and his officials to fly around. That is half of Obama's $800 Billion stimulus plan. Trump is negotiating with different manufactures to get a better deal. Not for himself but for the country.

That is just one example of how he will drain the swamp. He is a business man not a politician. Why should people in government have such lavish lifestyles. Not so much the President who is representing the country but all the others in government from federal, state & local at the expense of the hardworking American public? Whether they are billionaires or making 25-50k.

The left establishment wants to put the blame squarely on wealthy businessmen who sacrificed hard work and provide jobs for American so they can live can live a life of luxury and not be questioned. They media use the media as a critical tool to brainwash and distract Americans so they get their way.

I think you're overplaying this notion that Trump is really concerned with saving the country money. He's just grandstanding with Boeing and Lockheed. I'm sure he may knock a few dollars off the cost but really it's not going to be a significant difference. Not only that but he's looking to SPEND a lot of money on a lot of things at the same time he wants to cut the Taxes that actually pay for all that spending he wants to do. It's a NONSENSE approach that Reagan and Bush both tried and FAILED at miserably.

Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts

By Thom Hartmann, Truthout | Book Excerpt

You must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessings.
- Andrew Jackson

When I was in Denmark in 2008 doing my radio show for a week from the Danish Radio studios and interviewing many of that nation’s leading politicians, economists, energy experts, and newspaper publishers, one of my guests made a comment that dropped the scales from my eyes.1

We’d been discussing taxes on the air and the fact that Denmark has an average 52 percent income-tax rate. I asked him why people didn’t revolt at such high taxes, and he smiled and pointed out to me that the average Dane is very well paid, with a minimum wage that equals roughly $18 per hour. Moreover, what Danes get for their taxes (that we don’t) is a free college education and free health care, not to mention four weeks of paid vacation each year and notoriety as the happiest nation on earth, according to a major study done by the University of Leicester in the United Kingdom.2

But it was once we were off the air that he made the comment that I found so enlightening.

“You Americans are such suckers,” he said. “You think that the rules for taxes that apply to rich people also apply to working people, but they don’t. When working peoples’ taxes go up, their pay goes up. When their taxes go down, their pay goes down. It may take a year or two or three to all even out, but it always works this way—look at any country in Europe. And that rule on taxes is the opposite of how it works for rich people!”

My Danish guest was right. So before we get into the larger consequences of tax increases or tax cuts for the nation’s economic health, let’s parse this business about what tax increases or cuts mean for the rich and for the not-so-rich.

Unequal Taxation and the Conservative Spin

If a wealthy person earns so much money that he doesn’t or can’t spend it all each year, when his taxes go down his income after taxes goes up. This is largely because there’s little or no relationship between what he “needs to live on” and what he’s “earning.” Somebody living on $1 million per year but earning $5 million after taxes can sock away $4 million in a Swiss bank. If his taxes go up enough to drop his after-tax income to only $3 million per year, he’s still living on $1 million per year and socks away only $2 million in the Swiss bank. Although his lifestyle doesn’t change, his discretionary income—some call it “disposable” income—goes down when his taxes go up and vice versa.

Most working Americans believe that their taxes and income work in the same way—something the right-wing think tanks and media want everyone to believe. So average Americans tend to support tax cuts because they think they’ll have more money in the bank as a result, but if their taxes go up, they’ll have less money in the bank. It’s pretty intuitive, and over the short term, it’s true.

But it never plays out that way. Our own experience—and the experience of the Danes and other Europeans—shows a completely different trend.

Unlike the rich, most working people spend pretty much all of what they earn—their discretionary income is extremely limited and in many cases zero. Savings rates in the United States among working people typically are small—1 to 5 percent. So the take-home pay that people have after taxes—regardless of what the tax rate may be—is pretty much what they live on.

As economist David Ricardo pointed out in 1817 in the “On Wages” chapter of his book On the Principles of Political Economy and Taxation, take-home pay is also generally what a person will work for. Employers know this: Ricardo’s “Iron Law of Wages” is rooted in the notion that there is a “market” for labor, driven in part by supply and demand.

So, if a worker is earning, for example, a gross salary of $75,000, his 2009 federal income tax would have been about $18,000, leaving him a take-home pay of $57,000. Both he and his employer know that he’ll do the job for that $57,000 take-home pay.

So let’s take a look at what happens if the government raises income taxes. For our average $75,000-per-year worker, his takehome pay might decrease from $57,000 to $52,000. So, in the short run, increased taxes have an immediate negative effect on him.

But here comes the part the conservatives don’t like to talk about. Our own history shows that within a short time—usually between one and three years—that same worker’s wages will increase enough to more than compensate for his lost income. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan used to be hysterical about this effect—he called it “wage inflation”—and the Wall Street Journal and other publications would often reference it. It’s one reason why as income taxes increasingly hit more and more working people in the United States between the 1950s and 1981, income itself steadily went up, too.

Similarly, when the government enacts a tax cut, workingclass people’s taxes go down; but sure enough, over time, their wages also go down so their inflation-adjusted take-home pay remains the same.

Consider all the “tax cuts” working people have gotten over the past 30 years, from Reagan, Clinton, and Bush Jr. In each case, within a year or two working people’s wages were the same or lower. On the other hand, when working-class people’s taxes went up, during the Truman, Eisenhower, Johnson, and Nixon administrations, their wages went up in the following years, too.

We’ve seen both happen over the past 80 years, over and over again.

When it comes to the rich, though, it is the “top marginal tax rate” that matters most. That marginal tax rate applies to each bracket, and for 2009 taxes it was as follows:

Annual Income             Marginal Tax Rate
Less than $8,350          10%
$8,350 to $33,950         15%
$33,950 to $82,250        25%
$82,250 to $171,550       28%
$171,550 to $372,950      33%
$372,950 and higher       35%

So what happens if that top marginal tax rate goes up from its current 35 percent to, for example, the 1980 rate of 70 percent?

For the more than 120 million American workers who don’t earn more than $372,950 annually, it won’t mean a thing. But for the tiny handful of millionaires and billionaires who have promoted the Great Tax Con, it will bite hard. And that’s why they spend millions to make average working people freak out about increases in the top tax rates.

http://www.truth-out.org/article/item/1820:roll-back-the-reagan-tax-cuts

If you drastically increase tax rate on reach they will move their money out of the country, close the businesses which will became useless to them and as result all lower earners will suffer from recessions and loss of work.
Expropriation was done many times already with the same result - total destruction of the society, extreme poverty, and death of millions of pure people.
Venezuela is the most recent example.
Doing the same thing which not working over and over again is definition of madness.

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nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is not an African American Problem!!! This is about the larger White Society that has allowed this kind of crap to continue to go on!!! If I keep burning your house down no matter where you go and what you do to try and prevent it, is that your fault??? NO YOU'RE BEING ATTACKED!!!

This is what is happening and has always happened to African Americans, Native Americans and other Minorities. They are just trying to live like every average American but they have powerful forces who are constantly doing detrimental things to AA's. Such as Police Forces that over-police Black Neighborhoods like Stop and Frisk and extract money to pay for the Cities needs like Ferguson. Predatory Lending. Longer Sentences for the same crimes. Voter Suppression Laws. etc.

Arkrud you keep thinking that AA's and those who support them have somehow not been working to try and change things. There has ALWAYS been efforts to change things for the better. Perhaps you simply aren't paying attention to what has been presented in this thread. This is also about the Poor and Middle Class, but as i've pointed out before, there are people who don't want Poor and Middle Class of all Races to come together. This has been the fear of those in power since the beginning.

This is why I posted the racist political ad above. It proves that this is a tactic that has been used since the end of the Civil War.

There have always been multiracial efforts to fight against this. This is Frederick Douglas and White Abolitionists.

Do you get it now???

I never denied anything that you said.
I interact with many AA people every day and cannot see them being any different from other folks and cannot see them being treated differently.
I guess I never lived in areas where is not like that.
Lived in Brooklyn and in NJ in various counties and all is pretty civilized out there.
I do not even pay attention to race, color, and accents at all because this is irrelevant to me.

Well MOST African Americans don't live in NYC!!! The vast Majority are living where they've always lived in the Old Slave States. It's called the Black Belt. These states have a history of mistreating AA's and the Laws are constantly being written to disadvantage AA's in every way they can get away with. Sure you can sue but they just come up with another law and you're constantly chasing and fighting which doesn't leave much time or money for people to PROGRESS!!!

This is what i've been trying to explain to you. Perhaps now you are ready to accept that this is a very difficult situation. The People in these areas are STUBBORN and were brought up with the Racist Mentality from the Old Days. There are some who want to change that but there is a very large group that doesn't want change! Why do you think they've had Segregated Proms even up to recent years???

Once you get out of the Big Cities it's pretty much like going back in time in the rest of the country!!! There's a certain order of things in Rural America and it's the Old Order that still dominates. In the South we have Holidays you don't have!

8 States Still Have Holidays Celebrating The Confederacy

Over 150 years ago, the state of Alabama took up arms against the United States in order to defend the state’s practice of enslaving black people and forcing them to work to enrich white property owners. Today, the state celebrates its four years of treason in defense of slavery with a statewide holiday.

Under Alabama law, the fourth Monday in April is “Confederate Memorial Day” — and this is actually one of two Confederate-themed holidays celebrated by the state. State law also recognizes the first Monday in January as a celebration of Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s birthday. State offices, courts, and licensing offices are all closed on Monday because of the state holiday.

Nor is Alabama alone in using today to celebrate the Confederacy. Mississippi also celebrates Confederate Memorial Day, although Mississippi state offices will only close “at the discretion of the executive head of the department or agency.” Until recently, Georgia celebrated the same holiday — in 2015, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) renamed Confederate Memorial Day with the generic term “state holiday.”

In total, eight states — Alabama, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Texas — still celebrate some sort of Confederate holiday, although the nature of the celebration (and whether state workers get the day off) varies from state to state. Texas’ holiday, which the state celebrated on January 19th, is called “Confederate Heroes Day.” Meanwhile, Virginia has long used its Confederate holiday as a counterbalance to the federal holiday honoring a fallen civil rights leader.

Shortly after federal legislation created a national holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Virginia combined that holiday with another celebration honoring Confederate Generals Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson. This “Lee-Jackson-King Day” existed until 2000, when it was split into two holidays.

Now, Virginia honors the man who died advancing the cause of racial justice on a Monday and the two men who fought to maintain slavery on the proceeding Friday.

https://thinkprogress.org/8-states-still-have-holidays-celebrating-the-confederacy-886db691da54#.xyei56s03

It is difficult to me and most new emigrants who are not leaving in the South to get into your shoes but I can relate.
I was leaving in the countries where antisemitism is the second nature of the absolute majority of the population.
It was no other way to survive and stop leaving in fear but to leave.
This what makes us refugees.
And this people who we left behind will not get better. They will find some other way to separate and abuse somebody.
Until they will self-destruct.
We can see this self-distraction happening all over the world. The ricochet.
But people never learn... so may be it is fair at the end.

It used to be that European Immigrants were mistreated in America by Native Born White Americans. Over time they were able to blend into the larger White Society. That doesn't work for Non White people here. I can't just blend in.

Originally there were White Indentured Servants in America but they were not slaves for life. Then they decided that the easier path was to make a law that Negro Servants should be Slaves for life. Skin color made an easy way to establish the order of class in American society.

AFRICANS ARRIVE IN VIRGINIA, 1619

The social status of the first Africans in Jamestown was confusing, and perhaps deliberately ambiguous. Records from 1623 and 1624 list the black inhabitants of the colony as servants, not slaves. In these same records, however, white indentured servants are listed along with the year in which they were to attain freedom; no such year accompanies the names of black servants. Freedom was the birthright of William Tucker, the first African born in the colonies. Yet court records show that at least one African had been declared a slave by 1640, the year that slavery was officially instituted in Jamestown. After the legalization of slavery by the Virginia colony, the African population began to rise slowly and steadily. The number of blacks increased from 23 in 1625 to approximately three hundred in 1650.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/africans-arrive-virginia-1619

Works same way for Africans, Indians, Chines, Argentinians, and others as for Europeans.
I know a couple of people personally. They came to US from Kenya and Nigeria and do quite well.
They do notice some police profiling but after actual conversations with officers thay have no farther issues.
I am not saying that there are no issues. They are. But not as drastic as you portrait.

HOW THE PHUCK WOULD YOU KNOW???

You know you say a lot of dumb shyte! Come down here and hangout with some of the Sons of the Confederacy on Confederates Day and see what you think. It's a very convenient thing to be smug and flippant when you live in a Big City in the North East per se but not everyone is so fortunate. Some people have never escaped the ravages of Slavery and Jim Crow and that poverty and lack of education has them trapped in bad situations.

You need to get in a car and travel the country. Don't go to all the glamorous hot spots. Go into the backwaters and small towns and you might learn something.

I am not hanging out with racists of any color or nation.
And they exist of any kind.
I knew some racist Jews and they are disgusting regardless of justifications they try to sell.
Think about what you are saying yourself "...very convenient thing to be smug and flippant when you live in a Big City in the North East per se but not everyone is so fortunate." Do you really know all this people and the issues they have in their life? Do you think they all deserve your dismissal?
Anger and hate are bad for anyone... they became like those who they hate and start hating the whole world. Why to self-distract?

My father is very distrustful of White people. He of course was born in the 1940's and his life experiences with White people were not good. I didn't know anything about this kind of experience since my best friend growing up in Queens was White. We we started out in kindergarten and now both of us are grandparents. I of course have had my own run ins with White Racists but unlike my father I had the benefit of growing up in an integrated society and yet even I realize things were not just or equal for everyone.

You are trying to put me in the category of a racist or bigot when all I'm doing is stating the facts about how things are and why. You have a convenient situation that allows you to look for moral equivalence but if you were an African American in this country your entire life you would not have had this luxury!!! I didn't have it being chased along a country road as a child by the KKK. You would've been running right alongside me if you were there! Don't tell me anything about racism.

This is a problem. You don't want to hear anything that shaking your view of the world.
That's why you recycling the same arguments ignoring most of my points.
Contrary I am open to change my views and I did already based on our conversation.
World is changing every moment so should our view.
Its not a problem, it is strength.
Flexibility and acceptance is a key to individual and societal success.
I am just sharing the knowledge I have and which worked wonders for a lot of people.
You a welcome to use it or reject it. It is up to you.

Arkrud you don't know what you don't know! That's the problem. You can't drop in and try to teach me about this country that my family has been in since before the American Revolution!!! You don't understand the dynamics of life in this country. You're relatively new and instead of being humble about your lack of knowledge you're arrogantly trying to lecture us about subjects you don't fully understand.

I wish things were so simple as you think they are. I can assure you that the solutions are not just about African Americans working harder. That is F'n insulting in addition to being flat out wrong. People of color have been disadvantaged by this system for a very long time and it's still happening only the tactics are less overt. If you have to spend so much effort, time and money trying to overcome these obstacles how can you ever make progress?

What you fail to recognize is that AA's already started off with less and with the negative impact of poverty and poor education. Then pile on top of that a system built to disadvantage them and keep them from power over their lives and do this for a few hundred years. It's going to have long lasting impact. If you're poor and living in a Black neighborhood there aren't the same resources available. No fresh food but plenty of liquor stores and drug dealers. Food deserts are a very real thing. There are so many issues I can point to and it's not an accident that things are like this. Redlinig and packing AA's into ghettos was done on purpose and still goes on!!! Man I'm done talking to you cuz you have nothing to add to this conversation.

Yep. So do you.
We are like two ships in the open ocean.
We met, exchange the horns, and went in opposite directions.
Its fine. Ocean is huge. Every ship will find his cost.
But do not stuck in you misery, the world is a beautiful place.
Don't worry, Be happy!!!

Man you have no idea what you're talking about. I have a lovely family. I have a wonderful active life and I have a lot of people I work with that look to help less fortunate and oppressed people. There is no need for you to try and lecture me about being happy. The world can be a beautiful place but it can also be an ugly place if you don't actually work to try and correct the wrongs. I know what I do working with youth and community organizations. I don't just talk Shyte on a forum. I especially don't need to be told to "work hard" that's for sure!!!

I agree, I also work with children and young people, survivors of sexual abuse etc- there are some absolute horrors in the world, and just pretending not to see or acknowledge them does not make it go away- in fact it helps sustain it because it means you don't confront or challenge it.

It's great work. Very important.
And I agree 100% with this approach.
This what really make a difference not politics.
If politicians will just stay away and let people do what their heart and soul asks it will be much less struggle and atrocities in the world.
Hopefully they will neutralize each other corrupt influence on world and local affairs.

We need GOOD government. You can't address everything by simply wishing and hoping good people will be able to defeat bad people. If that was the method that Abolitionists and Civil Rights fighters took, we'd still be in an awful situation in this country. NOTHING good in this country came about without a MASSIVE struggle. They had to fight a bloody Civil War to get rid of Slavery. People Died and they had to send in the National Guard to gain Civil Rights and end most of Jim Crow. There are still vestiges of this fight left and people on the wrong side of this fight are still trying to disadvantage people. That's why we need good Government that actually serves the people and not Big Business or those who wish to maintain the Old Order of things.

This is why people are worried about Trump. His actions and rhetoric suggest he's not on the side of the people who have been disenfranchised and marginalized historically. Trump used the old Divide and Conquer Southern Strategy, which scares the hell out of Minorities. Trump has staffed his administration with only RICH and BIG BUSINESS people. These are not the champions of the poor and downtrodden. We've seen this movie before and it doesn't have a good ending.

WE need fiscally responsible and efficient governing

Now go ahead and define what that means to you.

One early example is Airforce One. It costs the country $400 Billion for the President and his officials to fly around. That is half of Obama's $800 Billion stimulus plan. Trump is negotiating with different manufactures to get a better deal. Not for himself but for the country.

That is just one example of how he will drain the swamp. He is a business man not a politician. Why should people in government have such lavish lifestyles. Not so much the President who is representing the country but all the others in government from federal, state & local at the expense of the hardworking American public? Whether they are billionaires or making 25-50k.

The left establishment wants to put the blame squarely on wealthy businessmen who sacrificed hard work and provide jobs for American so they can live can live a life of luxury and not be questioned. They media use the media as a critical tool to brainwash and distract Americans so they get their way.

I think you're overplaying this notion that Trump is really concerned with saving the country money. He's just grandstanding with Boeing and Lockheed. I'm sure he may knock a few dollars off the cost but really it's not going to be a significant difference. Not only that but he's looking to SPEND a lot of money on a lot of things at the same time he wants to cut the Taxes that actually pay for all that spending he wants to do. It's a NONSENSE approach that Reagan and Bush both tried and FAILED at miserably.

Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts

By Thom Hartmann, Truthout | Book Excerpt

You must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessings.
- Andrew Jackson

When I was in Denmark in 2008 doing my radio show for a week from the Danish Radio studios and interviewing many of that nation’s leading politicians, economists, energy experts, and newspaper publishers, one of my guests made a comment that dropped the scales from my eyes.1

We’d been discussing taxes on the air and the fact that Denmark has an average 52 percent income-tax rate. I asked him why people didn’t revolt at such high taxes, and he smiled and pointed out to me that the average Dane is very well paid, with a minimum wage that equals roughly $18 per hour. Moreover, what Danes get for their taxes (that we don’t) is a free college education and free health care, not to mention four weeks of paid vacation each year and notoriety as the happiest nation on earth, according to a major study done by the University of Leicester in the United Kingdom.2

But it was once we were off the air that he made the comment that I found so enlightening.

“You Americans are such suckers,” he said. “You think that the rules for taxes that apply to rich people also apply to working people, but they don’t. When working peoples’ taxes go up, their pay goes up. When their taxes go down, their pay goes down. It may take a year or two or three to all even out, but it always works this way—look at any country in Europe. And that rule on taxes is the opposite of how it works for rich people!”

My Danish guest was right. So before we get into the larger consequences of tax increases or tax cuts for the nation’s economic health, let’s parse this business about what tax increases or cuts mean for the rich and for the not-so-rich.

Unequal Taxation and the Conservative Spin

If a wealthy person earns so much money that he doesn’t or can’t spend it all each year, when his taxes go down his income after taxes goes up. This is largely because there’s little or no relationship between what he “needs to live on” and what he’s “earning.” Somebody living on $1 million per year but earning $5 million after taxes can sock away $4 million in a Swiss bank. If his taxes go up enough to drop his after-tax income to only $3 million per year, he’s still living on $1 million per year and socks away only $2 million in the Swiss bank. Although his lifestyle doesn’t change, his discretionary income—some call it “disposable” income—goes down when his taxes go up and vice versa.

Most working Americans believe that their taxes and income work in the same way—something the right-wing think tanks and media want everyone to believe. So average Americans tend to support tax cuts because they think they’ll have more money in the bank as a result, but if their taxes go up, they’ll have less money in the bank. It’s pretty intuitive, and over the short term, it’s true.

But it never plays out that way. Our own experience—and the experience of the Danes and other Europeans—shows a completely different trend.

Unlike the rich, most working people spend pretty much all of what they earn—their discretionary income is extremely limited and in many cases zero. Savings rates in the United States among working people typically are small—1 to 5 percent. So the take-home pay that people have after taxes—regardless of what the tax rate may be—is pretty much what they live on.

As economist David Ricardo pointed out in 1817 in the “On Wages” chapter of his book On the Principles of Political Economy and Taxation, take-home pay is also generally what a person will work for. Employers know this: Ricardo’s “Iron Law of Wages” is rooted in the notion that there is a “market” for labor, driven in part by supply and demand.

So, if a worker is earning, for example, a gross salary of $75,000, his 2009 federal income tax would have been about $18,000, leaving him a take-home pay of $57,000. Both he and his employer know that he’ll do the job for that $57,000 take-home pay.

So let’s take a look at what happens if the government raises income taxes. For our average $75,000-per-year worker, his takehome pay might decrease from $57,000 to $52,000. So, in the short run, increased taxes have an immediate negative effect on him.

But here comes the part the conservatives don’t like to talk about. Our own history shows that within a short time—usually between one and three years—that same worker’s wages will increase enough to more than compensate for his lost income. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan used to be hysterical about this effect—he called it “wage inflation”—and the Wall Street Journal and other publications would often reference it. It’s one reason why as income taxes increasingly hit more and more working people in the United States between the 1950s and 1981, income itself steadily went up, too.

Similarly, when the government enacts a tax cut, workingclass people’s taxes go down; but sure enough, over time, their wages also go down so their inflation-adjusted take-home pay remains the same.

Consider all the “tax cuts” working people have gotten over the past 30 years, from Reagan, Clinton, and Bush Jr. In each case, within a year or two working people’s wages were the same or lower. On the other hand, when working-class people’s taxes went up, during the Truman, Eisenhower, Johnson, and Nixon administrations, their wages went up in the following years, too.

We’ve seen both happen over the past 80 years, over and over again.

When it comes to the rich, though, it is the “top marginal tax rate” that matters most. That marginal tax rate applies to each bracket, and for 2009 taxes it was as follows:

Annual Income             Marginal Tax Rate
Less than $8,350          10%
$8,350 to $33,950         15%
$33,950 to $82,250        25%
$82,250 to $171,550       28%
$171,550 to $372,950      33%
$372,950 and higher       35%

So what happens if that top marginal tax rate goes up from its current 35 percent to, for example, the 1980 rate of 70 percent?

For the more than 120 million American workers who don’t earn more than $372,950 annually, it won’t mean a thing. But for the tiny handful of millionaires and billionaires who have promoted the Great Tax Con, it will bite hard. And that’s why they spend millions to make average working people freak out about increases in the top tax rates.

http://www.truth-out.org/article/item/1820:roll-back-the-reagan-tax-cuts

If you drastically increase tax rate on reach they will move their money out of the country, close the businesses which will became useless to them and as result all lower earners will suffer from recessions and loss of work.
Expropriation was done many times already with the same result - total destruction of the society, extreme poverty, and death of millions of pure people.
Venezuela is the most recent example.
Doing the same thing which not working over and over again is definition of madness.

Let's get one thing straight MORE money in the hands of the Poor and Middle Class gets SPENT and IMPROVES the economy. To the extent that we can increase wages and bring back some balance to things that is what will make everyone's lives better. Please stop crying for the rich:

United States Corporate Profits 1950-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar

Corporate profits in the United States increased by $98.3 billion, or 6.7 percent, to $1575.4 billion in the third quarter of 2016, following a 1.9 percent fall in the previous period and missing preliminary estimates of a 7.6 percent gain. Net dividends rose by $18.5 billion, or 1.9 percent, to $972.5 billion and undistributed profits advanced by $79.8 billion, or 15.3 percent, to $602.9 billion. Also, net cash flow with inventory valuation adjustment, the internal funds available to corporations for investment, went up by $95.4 billion, or 4.6 percent, to $2171.5 billion. Corporate Profits in the United States averaged 413.06 USD Billion from 1950 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 1703.60 USD Billion in the fourth quarter of 2014 and a record low of 14.40 USD Billion in the first quarter of 1951.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/carl-paladino-michelle-obama_us_585d6b3ae4b0eb58648638d7

The New York co-chair of President-elect Donald Trump’s campaign made racist and sexist comments about first lady Michelle Obama in a recent interview, suggesting that she was really a man and should live in Africa.

In an interview with ArtVoice published Friday, Carl Paladino said that in 2017 the thing he would most like to see go away was Michelle Obama.

“I’d like her to return to being a male and let loose in the outback of Zimbabwe where she lives comfortably in a cave with Maxie, the gorilla,” he said.

Asked what he would like to see happen in 2017, Paladino wished death on President Barack Obama and Valerie Jarrett, one of Obama’s senior advisers.

“Obama catches mad cow disease after being caught having relations with a Herford [sic]. He dies before his trial and is buried in a cow pasture next to Valerie Jarret [sic], who died weeks prior, after being convicted of sedition and treason, when a Jihady [sic] cell mate mistook her for being a nice person and decapitated her,” Paladino said.

The Huffington Post contacted Paladino to verify the comments, but he declined to respond.

“IO [sic] don’t talk to anyone from Huffington Post. Sorry,” he wrote. He did, however, then release a statement to reporters through a representative saying that his comments had nothing to do with race.

“It has nothing to do with race. That’s the typical stance of the press when they can’t otherwise defend the acts of the person being attacked. It’s about 2 progressive elitist ingrates who have hated their country so badly and destroyed its fabric in so many respects in 8 years,” the statement said.

Paladino was the New York Republican gubernatorial nominee in 2010, but lost to now-Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D). Paladino has a history of making controversial comments and has landed in hot water before for sending racist and sexist emails.

Cuomo said on Friday that Paladino had embarrassed all New Yorkers.

“While most New Yorkers know Mr. Paladino is not to be taken seriously, as his erratic behavior defies any rational analysis and he has no credibility, his words are still jarring. His remarks do not reflect the sentiments or opinions of any real New Yorker and he has embarrassed the good people of the state with his latest hate-filled rage,” Cuomo said in a statement.

Paladino was a big booster of Trump in the New York state primary and stood behind the president-elect as he spoke after winning the state’s GOP primary in April. He has also reportedly met privately with Trump after the election and gossiped with him about the best moments from the campaign, according to Politico.

In a statement, Trump spokeswoman Jessica Ditto called Paladino’s comments “absolutely reprehensible” and said “they serve no place in our public discourse.”

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/812358825504280576

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/812450976670121985

The New York Times has added a depressing and unique feature to its national news coverage since the election of Donald Trump, a weekly recap of reported incidents of Trump-inspired hatred, harassment, vandalism and violence titled “This Week in Hate.”

This Week in Hate tracks hate crimes and harassment around the country since the election of Donald Trump. The Southern Poverty Law Center and other groups are keeping detailed counts of harassment and abuse. We will regularly present a selection of incidents to show the scope of the problem. This article, the first in the series, includes incidents reported in the last two weeks.
Thus far there have been four installments. This is the first, published November 29, 2016. Some of these incidents have made the national news, while others have been locally reported only. Some of the incidents have been highlighted on this site, others have not. The following is a sampling from the November 29 installment (all links are from the original article):

• In the last week, three mosques in California and one in Georgia have received letters threatening that Donald Trump “is going to do to you Muslims what Hitler did to the Jews.” The letters were signed “Americans for a Better Way.”

• Last week, a passenger on a Delta flight began shouting, “Donald Trump” and asked, “We got some Hillary bitches on here?”

• In Astoria, Queens, on Nov. 17, an Arab-American Uber driver recorded a video of another driver shouting at him that “Trump is president” and “they’ll deport you soon.”

• At a Smith’s supermarket in Albuquerque, N.M., on Nov. 23, a woman began shouting Islamophobic abuse at a shopper wearing a hijab. Employees removed the shouting woman from the store, but she waited in the parking lot for the woman in the hijab to emerge. Eventually, employees escorted the woman in the hijab to her car.
From the December 6, 2016 installment:

• On Saturday, a Muslim police officer and her teenage son were accosted in Brooklyn by a man who yelled “go back to your country”and shoved the boy. The officer had received a medal in 2014 for saving a baby from a fire. A man has been charged with a hate crime in the case.

• A mosque in Providence and one in Wayland, Mass. received letters saying Donald Trump is “going to do to you Muslims what Hitler did to the Jews.” The same message was sent in November to several other mosques.

• A uniformed MTA worker wearing a hijab was called a “terrorist” by a man while riding the 7 train in Manhattan. The man followed her into Grand Central Terminal and pushed her to the ground; she was treated for leg injuries.

• A swastika and the word “Trump” were found on a blackboard in a middle school classroom at the William H. Lincoln School in Brookline, Mass. last Wednesday.
From the week of December 13th, another sampling:

• The home in Moonachie, N.J., of Nikita Whitlock, a fullback for the New York Giants, was vandalized last Tuesday night with swastikas, the phrase “KKK” and the word “Trump.” Police are investigating the vandalism as a hate crime.

• Brandon Marshall, a Denver Broncos linebacker who had knelt during the national anthem at games this season, received a threatening letter full of racial slurs last week. “We are ‘channeling’ a devastating hard hit for you,” the sender wrote. “Something to make you an invalid in a wheel chair.” The security staff of the Broncos is investigating the letter.

• Ilhan Omar, a newly elected Minnesota state representative and the country’s first Somali-American legislator, was harassed last Tuesday by a cab driver in Washington, D.C. He called her “ISIS” and threatened to remove her hijab. Ms. Omar was in Washington to attend a planning session for Democrats at the White House.

* * *

• A resident of Greenwood, Ind., notified police on Tuesday that a racial slur had been spray-painted on the side of his house. He had also received a note stating that his family were not welcome and that this was “Trump country.” The incident has been reported to the FBI as a possible hate crime.
The latest installment is behind a paywall but its lead describes the following series of hate and harassment incidents linked to the white supremacist and Trump fanboy, neo-Nazi Richard Spencer, which have made national news:

The FBI is reportedly reviewing the spate of harassing emails and tweets that have slammed residents of the small town of Whitefish, Mont., after the neo-Nazi site Daily Stormer put out a cyberhit on several members of the Jewish community there last week.

The call to “take action” against Jews in the small ski resort town was issued after Whitefish resident and property owner Sherry Spencer, mother of prominent white nationalist figure Richard Spencer, told the local ABC News affiliate earlier this month that mounting backlash over her son’s controversial political views had forced her to consider selling her property downtown. According to Spencer, pressure from Whitefish real estate agent Tanya Gersh and members of the local human rights group Love Lives Here caused her “financial harm.”
The Southern Poverty Law Center has documented 1094 bias-related crimes occurring after the election, including this lovely message left at a church in Grand Rapids, Michigan on November 21, 2016:.

“I think this is the gay church, that help gays that get kicked out of the country along with all the fricken Mexicans that are illegal that you guys are hiding illegally. I hope Trump gets ya. Trump Trump Trump. Trump Trump Trump. Trump’s gonna get your asses out of here and throw you over the wall. You dirty rotten scumbags. Hillary is a scumbag bitch. too bad waaa waaa. Hillary lost. Hillary lost. Trump’s gonna getcha and throw you over the wall.”
The audio of the person who left the message is linked here.

The SPLC is taking a “break” from covering the nationwide expressions of hatred Trump has encouraged, for the Christmas Holiday when apparently all of his supporters pause for a moment and celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.

The Times also includes a link to resources on what to do if you see someone being harassed or abused by a Trump supporter, or if you find yourself being harassed or abused by one.

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Israel reaches out to Trump to undercut a UN vote against Israel regarding settlements in Palestinian territory that Obama was going to allow...Trump tweets, Egypt drops vote at the UN...Trump undercuts Obama's authority before taking office...Unprecedented...

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/811928543366148096

This is just underscoring that the fears of this man's unsuitability for office are well founded. We are seeing warning signs all over the place and he's not even sworn in yet!!! This guy is DANGEROUS!!! He's swinging a flare in a room full of TNT and Nitro.

Not a big deal.
Israel gives no rat as..ss about this resolutions.
One more one less.
Sisi junta need US support moving forward so they do not want to anger future POTUS and his pro-Jew team.
The resolution will still be put forward by other non-permanent members and Obama can still abstain as he planned.
So it is pure political show between Egypt and future US government.

Sisi wants his annual funding increased just like Israel just got their increase from 3 billion to 3.8 billion per year for the next decade...Sisi is looking for the same..So in proxy, the US tax payers are paying for Israel's land grab against the Palestinians..

PLUS the real issue here is that the things Trump and Netanyahu are likely to do will inflame things in the Muslim world. DO we really need to be stirring up that wasps nest??? I'm telling you Trump is dangerous and he's gonna F things up with his shoot from the hip style. He doesn't think things thru to any logical conclusion. He doesn't weigh the possible pitfalls of his actions. He just wants to Cowboy his way thru everything like it's the 80's.

Its not land grab but getting back what is theirs.
Palestinians are artificially created nation with the only purpose to fight Israel.
They are not capable of governing anything which is widely documented fact.
Jews finance Israel and Arab powers and anti-Semitic Europeans finance Palestinians.
Regular struggle which is going on for hundreds year already and will go on.

This is great. What is your solution for peace, just say F'em and act like the Palestinians aren't there? That's basically what Trump and Netanyahu are probably going to do. That is NOT going to calm things down.

So far Palestinians trying to maintain current status quo indefinitely by putting force the Jerusalem issue as the main requirement for piece.
They know that Israel will never withdraw from its historic Capital and 500 thousands settlers are not going to leave.
This city is as sacred for Jews as Mecca and Medina for Muslims. Its the same as US will be asked to withdrew from Washington.
If Palestinian want to have independent country they should give up on this condition.
But then they will lose all financial, political, and any other help from Arab world.
They know that they are shielded from overall calamity only until the moment they needed to fight Israel.
In fact Israel is the only one who can guaranty that Palestinian state will survive in all-out Muslim world religious Civil War.
Jordanians get it, Kurds get it, even SiSi get it. Time for Palestinians to get it.
Palestinians rebels future is looking bad. ISIS considered them enemies and traitors as they fighting together with Hezbollah under Iranian Shia command.
They are between the hammer and hard place. Time for them to think about the situation before other massacre alike one they endure in Jordan will transpire gain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September