JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:As I stated earlier:

Knicks not needing Carmelo to win = stronger case for MVP.

zero-sum players seldom win the mvp. if he gets to the line 11-12 times a game, maintains 57.5 or better TS, and plays defense then he will be "in the running." but he lags behind both durant and lebron, who are more important to their teams than melo is to the knicks-- last night showed how this is so.

Lagging behind Lebron and Durant for a individual award is as respectable as it gets.

And although you have personally stated your requirements for the award, none of them matter as much as the Knicks continuing to do what they've been doing.

Last night only proved that the players on this team are capable of helping Carmelo stay in the race.

well if you are going to maintain that the winningest (as opposed to best) team's best (as opposed to most valuable) player always is in the running then i suppose so. but you know that it is probably the case that the player who is most pivotal to his team's winning is the one who ends up winning this award most of the time.

on the heat that is lebron.
on the thunder that is durant.
on the knicks that is ___________.

that said, the subjective nature of the voting bloc and its process (such as it is), means anything is possible.

I do not understand. Are you saying there's someone else on the Knicks that should be in the running instead of Carmelo?

Hmm, I wonder how NBA.COM and ESPN can be so forgetful to include that other mysterious player on our team.

Yeah im not understanding this either. So that season (was it last season?) when Rose went down and the bulls team still cruised to the best record in the NBA was proof that Derrick isnt their most valuable player?

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:As I stated earlier:

Knicks not needing Carmelo to win = stronger case for MVP.

zero-sum players seldom win the mvp. if he gets to the line 11-12 times a game, maintains 57.5 or better TS, and plays defense then he will be "in the running." but he lags behind both durant and lebron, who are more important to their teams than melo is to the knicks-- last night showed how this is so.

Lagging behind Lebron and Durant for a individual award is as respectable as it gets.

And although you have personally stated your requirements for the award, none of them matter as much as the Knicks continuing to do what they've been doing.

Last night only proved that the players on this team are capable of helping Carmelo stay in the race.

well if you are going to maintain that the winningest (as opposed to best) team's best (as opposed to most valuable) player always is in the running then i suppose so. but you know that it is probably the case that the player who is most pivotal to his team's winning is the one who ends up winning this award most of the time.

on the heat that is lebron.
on the thunder that is durant.
on the knicks that is ___________.

that said, the subjective nature of the voting bloc and its process (such as it is), means anything is possible.

I do not understand. Are you saying there's someone else on the Knicks that should be in the running instead of Carmelo?

Hmm, I wonder how NBA.COM and ESPN can be so forgetful to include that other mysterious player on our team.

sure you understand. just look at the past mvp winners and the voting charts of how much they won compared to others "in the running." in any given year there is usually either a one-man runaway race or a two-man race where two players gobble up the lion's share of first and second-place votes. so unless carmelo anthony somehow demonstrates that his value to the knicks is greater than either lbj or durant to their teams then there is no use talking about his winning the award.

will the knicks have as good a record or better than those two teams remains an open question. but lets say for argument's sake that the knicks end up with a better record than either of those two teams: do you really believe that carmelo anthony will have demonstrated that he is more pivotal to that record? and what has he done thus far to warrant that presumption? isn't the essence of "value" in a team game the elevating of teammates' performance by direct influence of your own? is that what you see with carmelo? or perhaps you don't see that with kidd that much?

I'm going to make this really easy for you instead of getting involved with the technicalites that you seem to be intrigued by.

55-60+ wins = Melo wins MVP or finishes 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.

No one ever said he's a shoe in to win it. This thread is about the race. And he is well in it whether fans like it or not.

And as far as Kidd goes, he has been a tremendous impact. But 8 PPG and 4 ASP will NEVER get you the award.

Got it?

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I wish everyone would just buy the ticket, take the ride. Enjoy yourselves with this goddamnit. This is the best Knicks team since the early 90s. Easily. And who knows how we'll remember this squad because history hasn't played itself out yet. Yet we got some *******s who already wrote the history of the Carmelo Anthony Knicks and they have to keep pitching their bull****.

Well said. They're winning. STFU and enjoy the ride.

I AGREE WITH THIS 1000%

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:As I stated earlier:

Knicks not needing Carmelo to win = stronger case for MVP.

zero-sum players seldom win the mvp. if he gets to the line 11-12 times a game, maintains 57.5 or better TS, and plays defense then he will be "in the running." but he lags behind both durant and lebron, who are more important to their teams than melo is to the knicks-- last night showed how this is so.

Lagging behind Lebron and Durant for a individual award is as respectable as it gets.

And although you have personally stated your requirements for the award, none of them matter as much as the Knicks continuing to do what they've been doing.

Last night only proved that the players on this team are capable of helping Carmelo stay in the race.

well if you are going to maintain that the winningest (as opposed to best) team's best (as opposed to most valuable) player always is in the running then i suppose so. but you know that it is probably the case that the player who is most pivotal to his team's winning is the one who ends up winning this award most of the time.

on the heat that is lebron.
on the thunder that is durant.
on the knicks that is ___________.

that said, the subjective nature of the voting bloc and its process (such as it is), means anything is possible.

I do not understand. Are you saying there's someone else on the Knicks that should be in the running instead of Carmelo?

Hmm, I wonder how NBA.COM and ESPN can be so forgetful to include that other mysterious player on our team.

sure you understand. just look at the past mvp winners and the voting charts of how much they won compared to others "in the running." in any given year there is usually either a one-man runaway race or a two-man race where two players gobble up the lion's share of first and second-place votes. so unless carmelo anthony somehow demonstrates that his value to the knicks is greater than either lbj or durant to their teams then there is no use talking about his winning the award.

will the knicks have as good a record or better than those two teams remains an open question. but lets say for argument's sake that the knicks end up with a better record than either of those two teams: do you really believe that carmelo anthony will have demonstrated that he is more pivotal to that record? and what has he done thus far to warrant that presumption? isn't the essence of "value" in a team game the elevating of teammates' performance by direct influence of your own? is that what you see with carmelo? or perhaps you don't see that with kidd that much?

I'm going to make this really easy for you instead of getting involved with the technicalites that you seem to be intrigued by.

55-60+ wins = Melo wins MVP or finishes 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.

No one ever said he's a shoe in to win it. This thread is about the race. And he is well in it whether fans like it or not.

And as far as Kidd goes, he has been a tremendous impact. But 8 PPG and 4 ASP will NEVER get you the award.

Got it?

yeah i got it, at least until the last sentence. therein lies the dilemma. his impact on the knicks fortunes, even if the boxscore doesn't show it, actually INHIBITS carmelo from winning the award.

ironic, isn't it?

The MVP award requires impact AND statistics though. Jason Kidd has impact, Carmelo has both.

If it didn't require both, role players would be in the race every season.

Look at Melo's #s. He's an all star and playing like an all star. He's doing what he usually does. Im sure some Melo jock rider will read this say fishmike says we are better without Melo. Thats NOT what I am saying. The Knicks are BEST when they play as a team. When Melo is scoring in the flow off the offense KNicks are unstoppable. When Woody goes to the ISO-Joe playbook we look slow predictable and easy to defend. Same will be with Amare. Let the PGs do their job.

The formula of Melo + role players leads to 50ish wins and a first round exit. Melo isnt really playing his best BB. He's done this before. There is a reason he's been to however many all star games. HE's a good player. The TEAM is vastly improved Melo's role on it is pretty simple.

What is Melo doing differently this year than any other inwhich he was never considered an MVP candidate?

Also there are two key players having career years. JR and Felton. Melo isnt being asked to do too much and the Knicks are better for it. Fun season

fishmike wrote:this team is good without Melo. Its loaded with top tier talent, maybe old and a past the prime but the talent is still there. The reason the Knicks are playing great is the team is loaded and playing as a team.

Look at Melo's #s. He's an all star and playing like an all star. He's doing what he usually does. Im sure some Melo jock rider will read this say fishmike says we are better without Melo. Thats NOT what I am saying. The Knicks are BEST when they play as a team. When Melo is scoring in the flow off the offense KNicks are unstoppable. When Woody goes to the ISO-Joe playbook we look slow predictable and easy to defend. Same will be with Amare. Let the PGs do their job.

The formula of Melo + role players leads to 50ish wins and a first round exit. Melo isnt really playing his best BB. He's done this before. There is a reason he's been to however many all star games. HE's a good player. The TEAM is vastly improved Melo's role on it is pretty simple.

What is Melo doing differently this year than any other inwhich he was never considered an MVP candidate?

Also there are two key players having career years. JR and Felton. Melo isnt being asked to do too much and the Knicks are better for it. Fun season

Be careful what and how you say it. Jock riders don't read well.

Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:this team is good without Melo. Its loaded with top tier talent, maybe old and a past the prime but the talent is still there. The reason the Knicks are playing great is the team is loaded and playing as a team.

Look at Melo's #s. He's an all star and playing like an all star. He's doing what he usually does. Im sure some Melo jock rider will read this say fishmike says we are better without Melo. Thats NOT what I am saying. The Knicks are BEST when they play as a team. When Melo is scoring in the flow off the offense KNicks are unstoppable. When Woody goes to the ISO-Joe playbook we look slow predictable and easy to defend. Same will be with Amare. Let the PGs do their job.

The formula of Melo + role players leads to 50ish wins and a first round exit. Melo isnt really playing his best BB. He's done this before. There is a reason he's been to however many all star games. HE's a good player. The TEAM is vastly improved Melo's role on it is pretty simple.

What is Melo doing differently this year than any other inwhich he was never considered an MVP candidate?

Also there are two key players having career years. JR and Felton. Melo isnt being asked to do too much and the Knicks are better for it. Fun season

Be careful what and how you say it. Jock riders don't read well.

They see Melo doing well and they see knicks doing well. It's all good baby.