nyk4ever wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:the only way ANYONE gets anything in this world is by hard work and perseverance, nobody owes anybody anything. im white, from a middle-class family, i (no one else) paid for my own college, no one gave me money to goto college, i didn't get any scholarships, stipends, or anything like that and my parents didn't have the money to send me. so i paid for it, all of it, and i'm STILL paying for it 10 years later. i dont have a grandparent that left me a wad of cash or anything like that, so, ive learned that the only way that i can make anything happen for myself is taking the bull by the horns and achieving it myself. growing up, while in highschool, i had to work 3 different jobs to make money. i worked with a carpenter, at a hardware store and at a drug store. i went to high-school and worked 6 days a week, sometimes 7, nobody gave me a job, i went out and looked for them.

you come in this world alone and you leave it alone, so why would i or anyone else expect to be given anything?

You didn't magically appear, you were born into the world via your parents who gave you life and raised you at great financial cost to themselves. Your entire development into adult hood was based on freebies. What you received for free was based on the financial position of your parents, their nature and caring abilities. We are relational beings. Most people spend their lives looking for love and friends. This individualistic nonsense is a myth- no one is an island. Everyone got where they are today thanks to the care and nurturing of others.

if it all relates to the nurturing of parents, then why isn't there more of a discussion and more of a personal responsibility from people who have children? most notably in many inner cities and surrounding areas?

I am a Psychotherapist for children, believe me bad and abusive parents are not confined to one race or class

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Nixluva--You live in the greatest country in the world---feel lucky and stand tall when the anthem plays.

The man you voted for doesn't believe so. He ran on the platform, and regularly wears on his head a declaration that America is no longer great, even while in office.

He also spent two years disparaging the military and its leaders, but that's neither here nor there.

He doesn't think America is great.

Well Im sure you do.

I do.

I also think it's imperfect.

I think the point of it is to try to make it more perfect (I think I read that somewhere once).

I think the proudest moments of our country came from revolution, fighting a civil war with our own, and protest.

I also think the greatest thing about it is its potential.

You have absolutely nothing in common with anyone white black Hispanic who has experienced anytime of hardship at any point of their life.

First accurate thing you've ever said.

Nope keep going--egotistical BSer fits perfect.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Man everything relates back to race for you--I wasnt even talking about race. Actually its people like you who are a big problem. You throw around the word "oppressed" instead of using examples of why anyone can be what they want to be in this country. You downplay the opportunity the uS gives EVERY single person and you bait it with racial disparity.

Nixluva--you have ZERO appreciation for a country that made you a great life. You like to teach history but youre a BAD teacher my friend. If you want to do something teach and preach to people what they can be instead of picturing a blindly bleak face on things. Slavery occurred all over the world nixluva--thats history--nothing we can do about it now. But we can bring examples of what is good and what can be achieved. But you like hate more than you like optimism.

Nixluva there are hundreds of millions--maybe billions of people oppressed around the world. People cant own a home many people dont even have rations of food for a day. You dont even understand what oppressed means--you were never oppressed for one minute of your life--Id bet on that. My bet is you have a nice home were afford more luxuries than 99% of the rest of the Earth--brought up good kidswho had a good education and you downplay the great opportunity the uS gave you by spewing gibberish nonsense.

You're a problem--you are no solution--youre take is the embarrassing part. Everything you have you take for granted. Half my family was incinerated--every day I see my children Im happy. I started off behind the gun in this world when my dad died when I was 8(my mom pregnant with my little brother) This country gave me opportunity and ive done this best I could do--with some health issues at a young age to boot. I appreciate the flag and what it means--but UNLIKE TrUMP I accept thoughtful disagreement on issue. I do NOT agree with his bashing style--but as you tell me I am on the wrong side of history--my opinion of you is come into the year 2017 and appreciate the things the uS gave you and stop focusing on problem of the past. Guys like Popovich never gave Trump or democracy one minute of chance--he was obstructed and resisted from minute 1 because a large bunch of people didnt get what they wanted. He certainly isnt the nicest person but I believe 100% that he wants the greater good for everyone--still do and that Hillary Clinton was not a viable choice. Dont write me back a page long diatribe on why you believe you were oppressed when there are billions of people who really ARE oppressed in the world--give it a needed break.

BRIGGS there's just a fundamental level of ignorance to your world view. You and from what I can perceive MANY others in this country who think like you are basically unsympathetic to the plight of others in this country. You can't put yourself in someone else's shoes and try to understand what their situation is like.

For starters you want to pretend that history has no impact on the present. This is convenient for you and your argument. As i've spoken about often, my Grandmothers, Aunts, Uncles and Parents are still alive and ranging in ages from 60-95. Their lives MOST CERTAINLY have been impacted by OPPRESSION. I was born in the 60's and I can tell you that I most CERTAINLY experienced the disadvantages of OPPRESSION. I and others have been trying to point out to you that inequality and injustice in this country has never stopped being an issue for minorities!!! As I said there were no GOOD OLE DAYS for AA's and other Minorities in this country.

The SYSTEM that has been in place since the founding of this nation was built to be unequal. The Mentality of MANY of White Citizens towards AA's has been one of White Supremacy from the founding of this nation up to this very day. You want me to ignore the inequality and just be happy that i'm here in the U.S. cuz this country GAVE me and my people all this opportunity. WHY should we ignore the inequality and injustice that's been going on since 1619 to this very day?

Lastly NO ONE is "afforded luxuries" in this country. I'm not sure why you would say such a thing. Especially Minorities in this country. Given that you say that half your family was incinerated you should be more empathetic to those who are being oppressed.

These are my grandfathers who fought in WWII. They were in Segregated military units and after fighting they came home to Segregation and inequality. One of them was wounded in War and eventually died from complications. He never knew a world that was equal for AA's.
Both of them had Grandparents who were Slaves.

Things are not EQUAL in this country to this day.

Nixluva--You live in the greatest country in the world---feel lucky and stand tall when the anthem plays.

Bruh! THIS IS MY COUNTRY! We've been here since this was a group of Colonies. My ancestors died and were buried in unmarked graves and I'll never know their names because they didn't recognize Slaves as anything more than work animals. Don't F'n tell me to "FEEL LUCKY". This country grew rich and powerful off the backs of AA's. We fought in most all this country's wars despite being oppressed.

I'm my family historian and I have accounted for all my relatives and their spouses going back to the late 1700's to 1800's. I'm 10% European even tho none of my ancestors married a White person. Do you know how those genes got there? RAPE during Slavery. This country reneged on even the basic promise of 40 Acres and a Mule! Instead we got Jim Crow and Segregation for another 100 years! Lower quality schools. Lower employment. Forced to live bunched into Ghettos using Redlining. Predatory Policing. We've earned the right to protest.

No Nixluva--this is NOT your country its OURS All of us. You should be thankful to God you live here and not 95% of the rest of the world. Look around your house and at your kids. Reflect for a moment of what life has brought you. Stop making it racial--thats not even what we were talking about. With you everything is race---youre the biggest racist here by FAR. You turn simple discussions about the uS into race--everything to you is race. Think about what the uS has brought you--youre not thinking.

Funny but not everyone agrees with you that this is OUR COUNTRY! Pretty sure that a great many people disagree with this and I live near those people who make that clear to me every time I come across them down here! You wouldn't know about that.

Me a racist? Bruh you have no clue! Many of my Relatives are White! My daughter's husband is Italian. We have a great relationship. My childhood best friend is White! You think I can't speak out on inequality and at the same time not be a racist. Our family reunions look like the United Colors of Benetton Ads. I'd have to hate my cousins, aunts and uncles.

You keep returning to this notion that we should be thankful to live here. Who said we weren't? Wanting Equality and Justice doesn't mean you aren't thankful of what you do have. This has been said to AA's going all the way back to Slavery but you wouldn't know that.

arkrud wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

arkrud wrote:What naked protest can propose?

My personal opinion, people are going overboard with the divisive thing, history moves by victories, not consensus. The Civil War had to be won, civil rights were not gained by an overwhelming majority approving.

Momentum is often gained at the expense of another side. Trump inserting himself into the issue may be a defining moment, one way or another.

The suffrage movement wouldn't have been successful if men didn't join the cause. The civil rights act would never have been passed if white people didn't join the cause. Gay marriage would not be a reality if not for the support of heterosexuals.

None of these tipping points occurred immediately and without those men, those white people, those heterosexuals slowly joining the cause, leaving peer groups behind in bitter dispute.

History moves in mysterious ways. Victory of some is defeat for others. And consensus is most of the time reached when "others" are exterminated or exiled.
Police officers are not social group and AA are not a nation.
It is not racial or national conflict but social issue.
Looking back at history it is easy to see that every call for patriotism ends up in violence and death.
Involving patriotic symbols like monuments, flags, and anthem scares me with promise of more violence to come.
You can not avenge lost life by taking more life.

The problem is that AA's have been treated like they're a separate Nation within the Nation. Perhaps you have heard of Segregation! Separate but equal, which was a lie. Redlining which kept minorities from living outside of Ghettos. The points you make are laughable when weighed against actual FACTS.

Uptown wrote:This guys lays out the protest and hypocrisy perfectly....

BRAVO 👏🏾. To bad our president doesn't understand this.

Knickoftime wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:the only way ANYONE gets anything in this world is by hard work and perseverance, nobody owes anybody anything. im white, from a middle-class family, i (no one else) paid for my own college, no one gave me money to goto college, i didn't get any scholarships, stipends, or anything like that and my parents didn't have the money to send me. so i paid for it, all of it, and i'm STILL paying for it 10 years later. i dont have a grandparent that left me a wad of cash or anything like that, so, ive learned that the only way that i can make anything happen for myself is taking the bull by the horns and achieving it myself. growing up, while in highschool, i had to work 3 different jobs to make money. i worked with a carpenter, at a hardware store and at a drug store. i went to high-school and worked 6 days a week, sometimes 7, nobody gave me a job, i went out and looked for them.

you come in this world alone and you leave it alone, so why would i or anyone else expect to be given anything?

I want to circle back to this because it feels familiar. I grew up on the lower end of a lower end of the middle-class community. I paid for my own college. I invented my own job after college college but that's a story for another day. I didn't take loans out for college, I took years off in between to pay for it.

Here's what I was gifted however, through no achievement or effort of my own. I was never told I would go to college or would be upwardly mobile. I never had to make a decision I would be. It was just the only thing I ever knew. My older siblings achieved in school (much more than I) and going to college was the only thing I knew. When I was a freshman graduating seniors went to college, that was my reality. When I was a sophomore and junior my friends begin thinking about and researching colleges.

This wasn't a choice we made that positively reflected on our character, this was just our personal reality.

I now live in an affluent community in which 97% of high school graduates go on to college, a majority of those very good schools. I don't know a kid in this town whose parents both didn't go to college. There's nothing in our water that makes these children exceptional relative to the mean. They're simply doing what they know and what is expected of them.

That is the biggest gift my child is being given - her normal is a gift.

My normal was a gift.

I strongly suspect your's was too.

good post and this is something I agree with fully. You are right, while my parents did not have a lot to offer to me in ways of money, since we weren't dirt poor, but I guess there was never an issue with things not being "normal." To me, I think this is the bigger issue that our country faces, not just kneeling in protest of police brutality, but giving slot of these kids in poor neighborhoods a better normal. Whether it's folks growing up in a trailer park or in the inner cities (and this isn't just limited to black and white, but that's predominantly what anyone wants to talk about) it always comes down to parenting and I'm sorry but I think when you look at the issues in the inner cities with kids growing up without fathers, or no parents at all, it doesn't even give most of these kids a chance to begin with. Maybe some of them get lucky and get into pro sports, but most them have no chance to make it out because they didn't have a chance to begin with. I think more importantly than the kneeling alot of folks should be taking some responsibility for the awful parenting job they do. This is more of an epidemic than the police issues to me. These kids need a better start in life and it begins with their parents.

Like you said in a previous post, nothing happens overnight and these things take years, but it seems to me like this is just ignored. To me, it's more important than current hotbutton topics of police brutality and whatnot, but that's just me.

smackeddog wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:the only way ANYONE gets anything in this world is by hard work and perseverance, nobody owes anybody anything. im white, from a middle-class family, i (no one else) paid for my own college, no one gave me money to goto college, i didn't get any scholarships, stipends, or anything like that and my parents didn't have the money to send me. so i paid for it, all of it, and i'm STILL paying for it 10 years later. i dont have a grandparent that left me a wad of cash or anything like that, so, ive learned that the only way that i can make anything happen for myself is taking the bull by the horns and achieving it myself. growing up, while in highschool, i had to work 3 different jobs to make money. i worked with a carpenter, at a hardware store and at a drug store. i went to high-school and worked 6 days a week, sometimes 7, nobody gave me a job, i went out and looked for them.

you come in this world alone and you leave it alone, so why would i or anyone else expect to be given anything?

You didn't magically appear, you were born into the world via your parents who gave you life and raised you at great financial cost to themselves. Your entire development into adult hood was based on freebies. What you received for free was based on the financial position of your parents, their nature and caring abilities. We are relational beings. Most people spend their lives looking for love and friends. This individualistic nonsense is a myth- no one is an island. Everyone got where they are today thanks to the care and nurturing of others.

if it all relates to the nurturing of parents, then why isn't there more of a discussion and more of a personal responsibility from people who have children? most notably in many inner cities and surrounding areas?

I am a Psychotherapist for children, believe me bad and abusive parents are not confined to one race or class

of course not, and I don't think anyone would logically think that. Now don't get me wrong, there are some true success stories coming from the inner cities, but let's be honest, they are far and few between. The one common denominator to me always seems to come down to parenting. Maybe I'm being to general and if I am I'll take the heat and man up and say I'm wrong, but it certainly seems that way to me.

Uptown wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:This guys lays out the protest and hypocrisy perfectly....

BRAVO 👏🏾. To bad our president doesn't understand this.

Right...and Dale Hansen is a Veteran.

I suspect veteran's view on this topic fall on the same demographic and ideological lines as most issues do. There are liberal/progressive veterans, conservative veterans, alt-right veterans and everything in between.

To assume all veterans feel the same is a sign of disrespect.

Wasn't my intent at all...

I didn't mean to imply it was. It was a general response.

Uptown wrote:This guys lays out the protest and hypocrisy perfectly....

There have been a couple of great viewpoints taken the last couple of days on the topic.