One thing is for sure - if he wants to get someone up on the ball he needs to play Deuce more. Mikal not aggressive at the point of attack and that kills us as much as anything. We also need to start thinking about gambling for more turnovers. We play more risk averse drop to prevent easy baskets, but we are still giving up easy baskets. Might as well gamble in a lane and create some turnovers if you're gonna give up so many easy baskets anyway. We have the personnel to do it with OG, Deuce Mikal, Josh and eventually Mitch coming back who can disrupt the ball.

VDesai wrote:Still hate this thread, but how is he playing the same strategy that got him slaughtered in Game 1 against the Celtics and Game 2 just a week before. He has 25 games to figure out a better strategy defensively.

One thing is for sure - if he wants to get someone up on the ball he needs to play Deuce more. Mikal not aggressive at the point of attack and that kills us as much as anything. We also need to start thinking about gambling for more turnovers. We play more risk averse drop to prevent easy baskets, but we are still giving up easy baskets. Might as well gamble in a lane and create some turnovers if you're gonna give up so many easy baskets anyway. We have the personnel to do it with OG, Deuce Mikal, Josh and eventually Mitch coming back who can disrupt the ball.

KAT and Brunson are having stout years offensively, and yet it probably behooves the team to have them do less - especially the ISO stuff - and play better team ball, which would probably give Mikal and OG better opportunities.

And Deuce does seem to be a better POA guy.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:Still hate this thread, but how is he playing the same strategy that got him slaughtered in Game 1 against the Celtics and Game 2 just a week before. He has 25 games to figure out a better strategy defensively.

One thing is for sure - if he wants to get someone up on the ball he needs to play Deuce more. Mikal not aggressive at the point of attack and that kills us as much as anything. We also need to start thinking about gambling for more turnovers. We play more risk averse drop to prevent easy baskets, but we are still giving up easy baskets. Might as well gamble in a lane and create some turnovers if you're gonna give up so many easy baskets anyway. We have the personnel to do it with OG, Deuce Mikal, Josh and eventually Mitch coming back who can disrupt the ball.

KAT and Brunson are having stout years offensively, and yet it probably behooves the team to have them do less - especially the ISO stuff - and play better team ball, which would probably give Mikal and OG better opportunities.

And Deuce does seem to be a better POA guy.

At time the ball movement has been flowing, but we seem to be getting killed by the trap on Brunson. Than we play pick and roll and they double Brunson, KAT gets the screen and then KAT is doubled off the wing. KAT then makes the perfect pass to Achiuwa who is open in the corner for 3 or a drive to the lane- airball.

https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=66576

https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=66577

martin wrote:The 2 prediction threads for this year. No one predicted that Knicks would be a contending team and the most optimistic is around 56 wins?

https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=66576

https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=66577

I knew it was going to take time. The question is how does the team improve with no picks of value and the second apron looming in the horizon?

martin wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Boston, Cleveland, and OKC are in a class of their own. Houston may not be far behind and need more time.

Total wins for the top 10 teams in the league record wise against each other. BOS CLE OK got 40+ wins total. NY MEM DEN HOU got 35-37, rest got 32-35.

	
	CLE	OKC	BOS	NY	MEM	DEN	HOU	LAL	IND	MIL	Record	Games
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLE		1-1	1-2	2-0	1-0	2-0	0-2	2-0	1-1	0-0	10-6	16
OKC	1-1		1-0	2-0	2-0	1-1	2-1	1-0	1-0	1-0	12-3	15
BOS	2-1	0-1		3-0	0-1	1-0	1-1	0-1	1-2	3-0	11-7	18
NY	0-2	0-2	0-3		1-0	2-0	1-1	0-1	2-1	2-0	8-10	18
MEM	0-1	0-2	1-0	0-1		1-1	1-3	1-2	0-0	2-0	6-10	16
DEN	0-2	1-1	0-1	0-2	1-1		0-1	1-1	0-0	0-0	3-9	12
HOU	2-0	1-2	1-1	1-1	3-1	1-0		1-0	1-0	0-1	11-6	17
LAL	0-2	0-1	1-0	1-0	2-1	1-1	0-1		1-0	0-0	6-6	12
IND	1-1	0-1	2-1	1-2	1-1	0-0	0-1	0-1		0-2	5-8	13
MIL	0-2	0-1	0-3	0-2	0-2	0-0	1-0	0-0	2-0		3-10	13

Definitely not unreasonable. They are the best teams. I never thought we'd be pretty squarely no.4-5 on the list and be 25 points behind them (or whatever our average margin of defeat is now in these 7 games). These are great teams, no doubt. Its hard to understand how we can be a few games behind record wise and be this far away from them in games. I'm not expecting to be better than them, but its hard to imagine that at this point in the season, after the success we've had in other games against some pretty good teams, that we're this far behind.

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Boston, Cleveland, and OKC are in a class of their own. Houston may not be far behind and need more time.

Total wins for the top 10 teams in the league record wise against each other. BOS CLE OK got 40+ wins total. NY MEM DEN HOU got 35-37, rest got 32-35.

	
	CLE	OKC	BOS	NY	MEM	DEN	HOU	LAL	IND	MIL	Record	Games
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLE		1-1	1-2	2-0	1-0	2-0	0-2	2-0	1-1	0-0	10-6	16
OKC	1-1		1-0	2-0	2-0	1-1	2-1	1-0	1-0	1-0	12-3	15
BOS	2-1	0-1		3-0	0-1	1-0	1-1	0-1	1-2	3-0	11-7	18
NY	0-2	0-2	0-3		1-0	2-0	1-1	0-1	2-1	2-0	8-10	18
MEM	0-1	0-2	1-0	0-1		1-1	1-3	1-2	0-0	2-0	6-10	16
DEN	0-2	1-1	0-1	0-2	1-1		0-1	1-1	0-0	0-0	3-9	12
HOU	2-0	1-2	1-1	1-1	3-1	1-0		1-0	1-0	0-1	11-6	17
LAL	0-2	0-1	1-0	1-0	2-1	1-1	0-1		1-0	0-0	6-6	12
IND	1-1	0-1	2-1	1-2	1-1	0-0	0-1	0-1		0-2	5-8	13
MIL	0-2	0-1	0-3	0-2	0-2	0-0	1-0	0-0	2-0		3-10	13

Definitely not unreasonable. They are the best teams. I never thought we'd be pretty squarely no.4-5 on the list and be 25 points behind them (or whatever our average margin of defeat is now in these 7 games). These are great teams, no doubt. Its hard to understand how we can be a few games behind record wise and be this far away from them in games. I'm not expecting to be better than them, but its hard to imagine that at this point in the season, after the success we've had in other games against some pretty good teams, that we're this far behind.

How about this take: Talented enough to beat all but probably 3-5 teams in the league fairly consistently (I'd add in Houston and Lakers). Not good enough from a team perspective to eclipse those above.

IMO Knicks have not gelled and played well enough as a team. It's there in flashes but not consistency. Starts and ends with Brunson on O (getting others involved and making it easy for them) and KAT on D (PnR defense).

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Boston, Cleveland, and OKC are in a class of their own. Houston may not be far behind and need more time.

Total wins for the top 10 teams in the league record wise against each other. BOS CLE OK got 40+ wins total. NY MEM DEN HOU got 35-37, rest got 32-35.

	
	CLE	OKC	BOS	NY	MEM	DEN	HOU	LAL	IND	MIL	Record	Games
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLE		1-1	1-2	2-0	1-0	2-0	0-2	2-0	1-1	0-0	10-6	16
OKC	1-1		1-0	2-0	2-0	1-1	2-1	1-0	1-0	1-0	12-3	15
BOS	2-1	0-1		3-0	0-1	1-0	1-1	0-1	1-2	3-0	11-7	18
NY	0-2	0-2	0-3		1-0	2-0	1-1	0-1	2-1	2-0	8-10	18
MEM	0-1	0-2	1-0	0-1		1-1	1-3	1-2	0-0	2-0	6-10	16
DEN	0-2	1-1	0-1	0-2	1-1		0-1	1-1	0-0	0-0	3-9	12
HOU	2-0	1-2	1-1	1-1	3-1	1-0		1-0	1-0	0-1	11-6	17
LAL	0-2	0-1	1-0	1-0	2-1	1-1	0-1		1-0	0-0	6-6	12
IND	1-1	0-1	2-1	1-2	1-1	0-0	0-1	0-1		0-2	5-8	13
MIL	0-2	0-1	0-3	0-2	0-2	0-0	1-0	0-0	2-0		3-10	13

Definitely not unreasonable. They are the best teams. I never thought we'd be pretty squarely no.4-5 on the list and be 25 points behind them (or whatever our average margin of defeat is now in these 7 games). These are great teams, no doubt. Its hard to understand how we can be a few games behind record wise and be this far away from them in games. I'm not expecting to be better than them, but its hard to imagine that at this point in the season, after the success we've had in other games against some pretty good teams, that we're this far behind.

How about this take: Talented enough to beat all but probably 3-5 teams in the league fairly consistently (I'd add in Houston and Lakers). Not good enough from a team perspective to eclipse those above.

IMO Knicks have not gelled and played well enough as a team. It's there in flashes but not consistency. Starts and ends with Brunson on O (getting others involved and making it easy for them) and KAT on D (PnR defense).

What I'm saying is that the above is a realistic and reasonable take to have on this team right now- and that's where I was at before this past week, but continually getting our doors blown off in similar fashion against these top 3 teams is giving me pause. Its one thing to be no.4 or 5 and a tier below, but we appears to be so far off being competetive.