Flynn, like Trump, appears to be cultivating these populist ties. As The New York Times first reported Monday, Trump’s national security adviser recently sat for a meeting with Heinz-Christian Strache, the leader of the far-right Freedom Party, who traveled to Trump Tower after the election to pay his respects. Strache published a Facebook post Monday confirming that the meeting took place last month shortly after the Freedom Party nearly won the recent presidential election in Austria, a huge feat for a party that barely existed years ago.

The ideological overlap between Strache, Flynn, and Trump is hardly insignificant, as The Huffington Post notes. All three are vocally anti-Islam and have each expressed skepticism toward immigration, the European Union, and multiculturalism more generally. Strache, like Trump, is also particularly sensitive to allegations of anti-Semitism, despite invoking many of its tropes: the Freedom Party leader has gone out of his way in the past to deny such claims by hosting conferences on anti-Semitism in Israel, even as he has ruffled critics by comparing his own struggles to those of Jews during the Holocaust.

The history of the Austrian Freedom Party itself is hard to disentangle from its anti-Semitic past. The party’s first leader was Anton Reinthaller, a former Nazi official and member of the SS. “This is not just any opposition party: It is one with Nazi sympathies,” Daniel Serwer, a professor at Johns Hopkins University specializing in foreign policy, told the Huffington Post. “Nor is Flynn any national security adviser. He is a documented conspiracy propagator. His long-term strategy colleague, Steve Bannon, is an ethnic nationalist and anti-Semite. The president-elect is an anti-Muslim and anti-immigration bigot.” (Bannon has denied making anti-Semitic comments.)

Flynn’s outreach to Strache is worrisome for other reasons, too. In his Facebook post, Strache also announced that he had signed a “cooperation pact” with Vladimir Putin, who recently shared a table with Flynn at a gala in Moscow celebrating the tenth anniversary of RT, the Russian state television organization. Strache said he would act as “a neutral and reliable intermediary and partner” between the Trump White House and Russia, and boasted that “the Freedom Party continues to gain international influence.”

nixluva wrote:I wonder, is anyone really confident in Trump's Administration being able to smoothly and safely manage diplomatic affairs? How about Trump being up to date and fully understanding international affairs and threats to world stability? Dude isn't directly meeting with the Intel Professionals on a daily basis. Rather than take the Daily Briefing, he's talking with Crazy Ass Gen. Mike Flynn. Flynn just scares the hell out of me.

Flynn, like Trump, appears to be cultivating these populist ties. As The New York Times first reported Monday, Trump’s national security adviser recently sat for a meeting with Heinz-Christian Strache, the leader of the far-right Freedom Party, who traveled to Trump Tower after the election to pay his respects. Strache published a Facebook post Monday confirming that the meeting took place last month shortly after the Freedom Party nearly won the recent presidential election in Austria, a huge feat for a party that barely existed years ago.

The ideological overlap between Strache, Flynn, and Trump is hardly insignificant, as The Huffington Post notes. All three are vocally anti-Islam and have each expressed skepticism toward immigration, the European Union, and multiculturalism more generally. Strache, like Trump, is also particularly sensitive to allegations of anti-Semitism, despite invoking many of its tropes: the Freedom Party leader has gone out of his way in the past to deny such claims by hosting conferences on anti-Semitism in Israel, even as he has ruffled critics by comparing his own struggles to those of Jews during the Holocaust.

The history of the Austrian Freedom Party itself is hard to disentangle from its anti-Semitic past. The party’s first leader was Anton Reinthaller, a former Nazi official and member of the SS. “This is not just any opposition party: It is one with Nazi sympathies,” Daniel Serwer, a professor at Johns Hopkins University specializing in foreign policy, told the Huffington Post. “Nor is Flynn any national security adviser. He is a documented conspiracy propagator. His long-term strategy colleague, Steve Bannon, is an ethnic nationalist and anti-Semite. The president-elect is an anti-Muslim and anti-immigration bigot.” (Bannon has denied making anti-Semitic comments.)

Flynn’s outreach to Strache is worrisome for other reasons, too. In his Facebook post, Strache also announced that he had signed a “cooperation pact” with Vladimir Putin, who recently shared a table with Flynn at a gala in Moscow celebrating the tenth anniversary of RT, the Russian state television organization. Strache said he would act as “a neutral and reliable intermediary and partner” between the Trump White House and Russia, and boasted that “the Freedom Party continues to gain international influence.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/12/mike-flynn-nazi-sympathizers

The problem is his supported will take great delight in him offending other countries and voicing their bigotry towards other races, countries and religions

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is what you said to BRIGGS on page 40:

Absolutely. This was my point all along and I was told that this argument is disrespectful.
To discard the huge achievement made by millions AA people in all ways of live after stopping crying and waiting with open hands for government help and starting building their live, family, and community on their own terms is disrespectful indeed. They are an example of perseverance, strength, and determination. They are what America is all about.

You have said this time and time again, in different forms, in two threads..This was just the latest..It really doesn't bother me to be honest, I believe it's the way the majority feels, not just you...It's just an incorrect perception but nothing new...I really believe in an honest dialogue especially on the internet where no one can lose anything, because of their honesty..It's a place where we can probe deeper than in a face to face setting like work, and actually talk about the difficult things in life..All opinions are welcomed in my opinion..I'm not trying to get you to stop bringing forward your point of view, I just want to keep the honesty flowing so we all know exactly where we are coming from...If you see something I'm doing, I welcome the criticism...

In this sentence I prized the achievements of millions of AA people in the face of diversity and trails of racism.
Not sure why you perverted the meaning of it to me somehow blaming people who did not achieve progress and prosperity.
There are millions of "whites" and other people who did not make it. Complacency and reliance on outside support is one of the reasons why they did not.
Over-reliance and abuse of social services is an issue in many countries and for all population groups.
To me one of the issues is well known American exceptionalism and American AA exceptionalism specifically.
The problems America and American AA community is facing are not unique.
Slavery left its trail in Africa and many countries in Latin America.
Racism killed millions in Europe and Asia and continue to kill every day.
This issues are world wide problems. May be the main obstacle human race is facing our days.

What you seem not to be able to admit is that this is AMERICA!!! It's been a Hypocritical country for most of it's entire history. You know "Land of the Free" and holding it's principles of Democracy up to the world all the while holding Slaves or later Denying equal rights to it's minorities.

AA's get angry about the way European Immigrants have been given opportunities to climb up the social ladder that were denied to AA's. It's not relevant that Slavery is an old failing in the world or that other countries oppress their people!!! This country is supposed to be different and People like yourself come here to enjoy the freedoms and opportunity this country provides. ALL THE WHILE AA'S WHO HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING ARE DENIED!!! NATIVES HAVE BEEN KILLED, ABUSED AND LIED TO!!! MEXICANS HAVE BEEN SCAPEGOATED AND USED AS POLITICAL PAWNS!!!

This is straight bullsht.
The people who came here build their life with hard work and perseverance.
I came here with 2K in my pocket and never get any help except of 6 month of refugee money which were less that SSI...
I was not aware about "white" and AA even existed.
I really enjoyed and will enjoy the opportunity.
But opportunity means nothing if you not work for it.
With bigoted attitude you have against people of other races you will not get far.
Racism is racism. It does not mater if it comes from majority or minority. Same crap.

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is what you said to BRIGGS on page 40:

Absolutely. This was my point all along and I was told that this argument is disrespectful.
To discard the huge achievement made by millions AA people in all ways of live after stopping crying and waiting with open hands for government help and starting building their live, family, and community on their own terms is disrespectful indeed. They are an example of perseverance, strength, and determination. They are what America is all about.

You have said this time and time again, in different forms, in two threads..This was just the latest..It really doesn't bother me to be honest, I believe it's the way the majority feels, not just you...It's just an incorrect perception but nothing new...I really believe in an honest dialogue especially on the internet where no one can lose anything, because of their honesty..It's a place where we can probe deeper than in a face to face setting like work, and actually talk about the difficult things in life..All opinions are welcomed in my opinion..I'm not trying to get you to stop bringing forward your point of view, I just want to keep the honesty flowing so we all know exactly where we are coming from...If you see something I'm doing, I welcome the criticism...

In this sentence I prized the achievements of millions of AA people in the face of diversity and trails of racism.
Not sure why you perverted the meaning of it to me somehow blaming people who did not achieve progress and prosperity.
There are millions of "whites" and other people who did not make it. Complacency and reliance on outside support is one of the reasons why they did not.
Over-reliance and abuse of social services is an issue in many countries and for all population groups.
To me one of the issues is well known American exceptionalism and American AA exceptionalism specifically.
The problems America and American AA community is facing are not unique.
Slavery left its trail in Africa and many countries in Latin America.
Racism killed millions in Europe and Asia and continue to kill every day.
This issues are world wide problems. May be the main obstacle human race is facing our days.

What you seem not to be able to admit is that this is AMERICA!!! It's been a Hypocritical country for most of it's entire history. You know "Land of the Free" and holding it's principles of Democracy up to the world all the while holding Slaves or later Denying equal rights to it's minorities.

AA's get angry about the way European Immigrants have been given opportunities to climb up the social ladder that were denied to AA's. It's not relevant that Slavery is an old failing in the world or that other countries oppress their people!!! This country is supposed to be different and People like yourself come here to enjoy the freedoms and opportunity this country provides. ALL THE WHILE AA'S WHO HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING ARE DENIED!!! NATIVES HAVE BEEN KILLED, ABUSED AND LIED TO!!! MEXICANS HAVE BEEN SCAPEGOATED AND USED AS POLITICAL PAWNS!!!

This is straight bullsht.
The people who came here build their life with hard work and perseverance.
I came here with 2K in my pocket and never get any help except of 6 month of refugee money which were less that SSI...
I was not aware about "white" and AA even existed.
I really enjoyed and will enjoy the opportunity.
But opportunity means nothing if you not work for it.
With bigoted attitude you have against people of other races you will not get far.
Racism is racism. It does not mater if it comes from majority or minority. Same crap.

I've had to tell this to BRIGGS as well but my family is Multiracial and I don't hate other races!!!
Good for you that you were able to come here and find success. Just don't dismiss the grievances of those who have been here for hundreds of years struggling in an unjust system.

I've already "gotten far" so I don't accept your take at all. What I do is present FACTS! This system from the very start had an original sin and it was Slavery and Racism. The problem wasn't with the Slaves!!! You want some kind of moral equivalence were all Racism is equal but I'm not talking about INDIVIDUALS with racist views. I'm talking about a system built over hundreds of years in this country that disadvantages minorities.

You once again mentioned WORKING HARD. I can tell you that minorities have ALWAYS worked hard and still they face obstacles that White people don't face. If you're a person of color it's scary how easily you can get caught up in the teeth of this machine.

Most poor Whites face many of the same hurdles but for people of color there's another set of obstacles that a White person doesn't face. It's not about working hard when Trump and his father refused to rent to Black people!!! It's not about working hard when you get shot by a cop cuz he assumed the Black guy was a threat when in fact he was looking for HELP!

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is what you said to BRIGGS on page 40:

Absolutely. This was my point all along and I was told that this argument is disrespectful.
To discard the huge achievement made by millions AA people in all ways of live after stopping crying and waiting with open hands for government help and starting building their live, family, and community on their own terms is disrespectful indeed. They are an example of perseverance, strength, and determination. They are what America is all about.

You have said this time and time again, in different forms, in two threads..This was just the latest..It really doesn't bother me to be honest, I believe it's the way the majority feels, not just you...It's just an incorrect perception but nothing new...I really believe in an honest dialogue especially on the internet where no one can lose anything, because of their honesty..It's a place where we can probe deeper than in a face to face setting like work, and actually talk about the difficult things in life..All opinions are welcomed in my opinion..I'm not trying to get you to stop bringing forward your point of view, I just want to keep the honesty flowing so we all know exactly where we are coming from...If you see something I'm doing, I welcome the criticism...

In this sentence I prized the achievements of millions of AA people in the face of diversity and trails of racism.
Not sure why you perverted the meaning of it to me somehow blaming people who did not achieve progress and prosperity.
There are millions of "whites" and other people who did not make it. Complacency and reliance on outside support is one of the reasons why they did not.
Over-reliance and abuse of social services is an issue in many countries and for all population groups.
To me one of the issues is well known American exceptionalism and American AA exceptionalism specifically.
The problems America and American AA community is facing are not unique.
Slavery left its trail in Africa and many countries in Latin America.
Racism killed millions in Europe and Asia and continue to kill every day.
This issues are world wide problems. May be the main obstacle human race is facing our days.

What you seem not to be able to admit is that this is AMERICA!!! It's been a Hypocritical country for most of it's entire history. You know "Land of the Free" and holding it's principles of Democracy up to the world all the while holding Slaves or later Denying equal rights to it's minorities.

AA's get angry about the way European Immigrants have been given opportunities to climb up the social ladder that were denied to AA's. It's not relevant that Slavery is an old failing in the world or that other countries oppress their people!!! This country is supposed to be different and People like yourself come here to enjoy the freedoms and opportunity this country provides. ALL THE WHILE AA'S WHO HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING ARE DENIED!!! NATIVES HAVE BEEN KILLED, ABUSED AND LIED TO!!! MEXICANS HAVE BEEN SCAPEGOATED AND USED AS POLITICAL PAWNS!!!

This is straight bullsht.
The people who came here build their life with hard work and perseverance.
I came here with 2K in my pocket and never get any help except of 6 month of refugee money which were less that SSI...
I was not aware about "white" and AA even existed.
I really enjoyed and will enjoy the opportunity.
But opportunity means nothing if you not work for it.
With bigoted attitude you have against people of other races you will not get far.
Racism is racism. It does not mater if it comes from majority or minority. Same crap.

I've had to tell this to BRIGGS as well but my family is Multiracial and I don't hate other races!!!
Good for you that you were able to come here and find success. Just don't dismiss the grievances of those who have been here for hundreds of years struggling in an unjust system.

I've already "gotten far" so I don't accept your take at all. What I do is present FACTS! This system from the very start had an original sin and it was Slavery and Racism. The problem wasn't with the Slaves!!! You want some kind of moral equivalence were all Racism is equal but I'm not talking about INDIVIDUALS with racist views. I'm talking about a system built over hundreds of years in this country that disadvantages minorities.

You once again mentioned WORKING HARD. I can tell you that minorities have ALWAYS worked hard and still they face obstacles that White people don't face. If you're a person of color it's scary how easily you can get caught up in the teeth of this machine.

Most poor Whites face many of the same hurdles but for people of color there's another set of obstacles that a White person doesn't face. It's not about working hard when Trump and his father refused to rent to Black people!!! It's not about working hard when you get shot by a cop cuz he assumed the Black guy was a threat when in fact he was looking for HELP!

Again priding some people does not dismissing others.
I understand why you are focusing on negatives. It comes with territory.
But you will not be able to lift your community without accepting achievements of other people.
And making faults and crimes of some people the faults and crimes of all people alike is nothing but racism.
Isn't this attitude the main problem your community facing?
It works both way or not working at all.
Or we will have mutual admiration or we will have mutual hate.
There is no other solution.
That why I am focusing on positives in all kind of people and looking for achievements in any kind of communities.

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is what you said to BRIGGS on page 40:

Absolutely. This was my point all along and I was told that this argument is disrespectful.
To discard the huge achievement made by millions AA people in all ways of live after stopping crying and waiting with open hands for government help and starting building their live, family, and community on their own terms is disrespectful indeed. They are an example of perseverance, strength, and determination. They are what America is all about.

You have said this time and time again, in different forms, in two threads..This was just the latest..It really doesn't bother me to be honest, I believe it's the way the majority feels, not just you...It's just an incorrect perception but nothing new...I really believe in an honest dialogue especially on the internet where no one can lose anything, because of their honesty..It's a place where we can probe deeper than in a face to face setting like work, and actually talk about the difficult things in life..All opinions are welcomed in my opinion..I'm not trying to get you to stop bringing forward your point of view, I just want to keep the honesty flowing so we all know exactly where we are coming from...If you see something I'm doing, I welcome the criticism...

In this sentence I prized the achievements of millions of AA people in the face of diversity and trails of racism.
Not sure why you perverted the meaning of it to me somehow blaming people who did not achieve progress and prosperity.
There are millions of "whites" and other people who did not make it. Complacency and reliance on outside support is one of the reasons why they did not.
Over-reliance and abuse of social services is an issue in many countries and for all population groups.
To me one of the issues is well known American exceptionalism and American AA exceptionalism specifically.
The problems America and American AA community is facing are not unique.
Slavery left its trail in Africa and many countries in Latin America.
Racism killed millions in Europe and Asia and continue to kill every day.
This issues are world wide problems. May be the main obstacle human race is facing our days.

What you seem not to be able to admit is that this is AMERICA!!! It's been a Hypocritical country for most of it's entire history. You know "Land of the Free" and holding it's principles of Democracy up to the world all the while holding Slaves or later Denying equal rights to it's minorities.

AA's get angry about the way European Immigrants have been given opportunities to climb up the social ladder that were denied to AA's. It's not relevant that Slavery is an old failing in the world or that other countries oppress their people!!! This country is supposed to be different and People like yourself come here to enjoy the freedoms and opportunity this country provides. ALL THE WHILE AA'S WHO HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING ARE DENIED!!! NATIVES HAVE BEEN KILLED, ABUSED AND LIED TO!!! MEXICANS HAVE BEEN SCAPEGOATED AND USED AS POLITICAL PAWNS!!!

This is straight bullsht.
The people who came here build their life with hard work and perseverance.
I came here with 2K in my pocket and never get any help except of 6 month of refugee money which were less that SSI...
I was not aware about "white" and AA even existed.
I really enjoyed and will enjoy the opportunity.
But opportunity means nothing if you not work for it.
With bigoted attitude you have against people of other races you will not get far.
Racism is racism. It does not mater if it comes from majority or minority. Same crap.

I've had to tell this to BRIGGS as well but my family is Multiracial and I don't hate other races!!!
Good for you that you were able to come here and find success. Just don't dismiss the grievances of those who have been here for hundreds of years struggling in an unjust system.

I've already "gotten far" so I don't accept your take at all. What I do is present FACTS! This system from the very start had an original sin and it was Slavery and Racism. The problem wasn't with the Slaves!!! You want some kind of moral equivalence were all Racism is equal but I'm not talking about INDIVIDUALS with racist views. I'm talking about a system built over hundreds of years in this country that disadvantages minorities.

You once again mentioned WORKING HARD. I can tell you that minorities have ALWAYS worked hard and still they face obstacles that White people don't face. If you're a person of color it's scary how easily you can get caught up in the teeth of this machine.

Most poor Whites face many of the same hurdles but for people of color there's another set of obstacles that a White person doesn't face. It's not about working hard when Trump and his father refused to rent to Black people!!! It's not about working hard when you get shot by a cop cuz he assumed the Black guy was a threat when in fact he was looking for HELP!

Again priding some people does not dismissing others.
I understand why you are focusing on negatives. It comes with territory.
But you will not be able to lift your community without accepting achievements of other people.
And making faults and crimes of some people the faults and crimes of all people alike is nothing but racism.
Isn't this attitude the main problem your community facing?
It works both way or not working at all.
Or we will have mutual admiration or we will have mutual hate.
There is no other solution.
That why I am focusing on positives in all kind of people and looking for achievements in any kind of communities.

You know NOTHING of my community!!! You haven't spent enough time or energy in my community to have any idea of the scope of the problem. You seem to think you have the answers and somehow all the people who focus on this have missed what you've figured out.

The Power structure in this country has been set up a certain way and it's clear that it was set up to be unequal and to insure a lower class was there to exploit. They decided that non whites would be set apart. The South was largely an economy built on farming and mining and the workforce was originally filled by African Slaves and Poor Whites. After slavery poor people of all races filled the workforce. Now you have South Americans filling a lot of the lower class jobs for low wages. Don't compare your situation with any of these nor assume that AA's simply need to ignore racial inequality and just work harder and all will be solved.

Working harder won't stop voter suppression laws from being enacted or redlining or police harassment etc. Some things are much deeper and sinister than your simplistic solution can address.

http://www.eater.com/2016/12/21/14038332/anthony-bourdain-election-trump-interview

Anthony Bourdain had just returned home for the holidays, stepping off a plane that had delivered him from the balmy heat of Muscat and walking directly into one of those wintry New York snaps where the frigid wind fires through Manhattan’s crosstown canyons like rubber bullets. I showed up at the restaurant looking like a walking duvet, scarved and hatted and gloved. Bourdain was in a bomber jacket, hunter green, ready for a mild autumn. He still had Oman on his mind. "It was pretty amazing," he said. "The desert is a pretty once-in-a-lifetime experience."

It was December 19, the day the electoral college voted to install Donald J. Trump as the 45th President of the United States. Bourdain and I had this dinner on the books for a month, ever since I reached out for a quote, a diligent food journalist asking one of our world’s biggest stars if he had any thoughts he wanted to share on the record about Trump’s victory. A month before the election, Bourdain and I had a long conversation on the Eater Upsell podcast. Then, among other things, he’d defended his show, Parts Unknown, from audience accusations that it had become too much about politics. "If the army controls the entire flour supply and the bakeries, that’s already a political thing," he said. Food is politics, is the point. More to the point, media is politics, and that includes food media. "I’m not gonna tell you who to vote for, but I do notice things and I do have opinions," he said on the Upsell. "And if the guy I ate with in Russia who says, ‘No, I’m not worried about Putin killing me’ is shot to death on the front lawn of the Kremlin a few months later, I might mention that."

I’m not telling the whole truth. Yes, I reached out to Bourdain because I’m a journalist and journalists reach out to people for comment, but I also got in touch for my own reasons. Spend any time in contemplation of the astronomical map of food-world celebrities, and it becomes clear that Bourdain is not actually a star — he is a nebula. His fame is almost incomprehensibly vast, his brightness — or sometimes, his darkness — defines the very shape of the expanse, he’s so influential and creatively fecund as to regularly birth stars of his own. His assertiveness is uncommon for someone of his stature, a candor that’s both studied and unaffected, that — even as the topics to which he turns the knife of his attention have broadened in their scope over the years, from brunch eggs and getting high to the crisis of unexploded ordnance in Laos — has barely softened its acerbic swagger.

At the moment Trump was elected President — a man who had built his campaign on anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim demagoguery and vindictively rhetorical sleight of hand — the world flipped into slow motion for the 53.9 percent of voters who cast ballots for anyone other than him. I got in touch with Bourdain because I hoped he’d be able to cut through that feeling of powerlessness. After I asked if he wanted to talk, the reply came quickly: He’d love to, but not until late in December, once he got back from Oman. And so, over a few hours and innumerable Asahis and countless yakitori skewers — including chicken hearts, inevitably metaphorical (and, as Bourdain pointed out, his daughter’s favorite) — we did.

So, did you vote?

Yes. No fan of the Clintons am I, by a long shot. But I’m a New Yorker, Donald Trump is a New Yorker. And the New Yorkers I know, we’ve lived with this guy for 30 years. I’ve seen Donald Trump say things one day, and then I saw what he did the next. I’ve seen up close how he does business. Just like if you lived in a small town, you’d get to know the sheriff, the guy who runs the hardware store, the guy who runs the filling station — Trump comes from that era of guys you followed, guys you knew about every day: Trump, Giuliani, Al Sharpton, Curtis Sliwa. I’d see him at Studio 54, for ****’s sake. I’m not saying I know the guy personally, not like I’d hug him, but I’m saying that as a New Yorker, we pretty much are neighbors. And my many years of living in his orbit have not left me with a favorable impression, let’s put it that way. There’s so many reasons to find the guy troubling. When Scott Baio’s the only guy you can find to show up at your convention, you’re in trouble.

The big platform that kicked all this off for him, his comments about Mexican immigrants, intersects so directly with your vocal championship of Mexican restaurant labor —

He has a vineyard in, is it Virginia? I think a very interesting project would be to see who’s picking his grapes.

That’s a good question.

Well, I believe I know the answer, which is why I’m asking the question.

Do you think he’s actually going to make moves toward deporting people?

I think it’s going to be hard times. Is he gonna do anything near what he promised? Of course not. But he will be forced to do something, by the people around him. He will have to do something, and it will be extraordinarily ugly.

Does that change the urgency of the work that you do?

I’ve spent a lot of time in Red State America. I’ve spent a lot of time in Trump country. I have a lot of sympathy, and I believe understanding, for cultures and for places where gun culture goes so deep — that first cold morning when Daddy takes a young boy out hunting with him, lets him use a rifle, shows him how to use it — I know how emotional and how deep that goes.

We are a violent nation, from the beginning. I’m not arguing for current gun policy, but I think it’s worth acknowledging that this is a country founded in violence, a country that has always worshipped outlaws, loners, cowboys, and people who got the things they got by the gun. We glorify it, we created an entertainment industry that does little but glorify solving complex problems with simple violence.

But I think to mock constantly, as so much of the left has done — to demonize, to ridicule, to treat with abject contempt people who live in a very different America than they live in — is both ugly and counterproductive. There are a lot of people who are pissed off, they’re tired of being talked to like that. There are a lot of people in this world who, when an Applebee’s moves to their town, it’s a big deal — and I don’t mean that in a dismissive way. Where somebody coming to take your guns away is a big concern. Look, I don’t think racism can ever be forgiven. It’s a conversation-ender for me, for sure. But if you grew up isolated, no interaction or little interaction, the only interaction you’ve had has been negative, and you’re fearful of the Other, and somehow everything you read in the paper makes it seem like they’re getting all the breaks, especially when, in the news environment we live in now, it’s perfectly permissible to lie.

With my shows, I seem to fall into power vacuums. I did at Food Network, I did at Travel Channel, I always feel like I somehow slip through the cracks. I have really no — zero, I don’t feel that I have any — responsibility. I’m following my heart. If I find myself talking about immigration, or multiculturalism — though I hate that word — at this point, it’s because that’s how I feel. It’s personal to me. Maybe at this point it’s because I travel so much.

So if your generous, inclusive perspective on humanity is in part engendered by the depth and breadth of your travels, and if your show winds up being the closest thing that many of us have to that kind of global experience, then doesn’t it follow that your show can serve as a point of entry for us to develop a similar perspective?

Maybe. When I do live tours, I hear that, I see that. But all I know is how my shows make me feel. Making them, experiencing them, going through the process of making them, and then watching them after they’re done. It’s either a successful story or a not-so-successful story. How they make other people feel? I think I’ve said before to you, it’s dangerous ground to start wondering about such things, and particularly now that my outlook is pretty damn bleak.

I mean, you would think, Gee, with all these great travel shows on, there are plenty of opportunities to see how other people live. But you know something else travel has taught me: People rise up and kill their neighbors all the time. People they’ve lived with their whole lives, yesterday they were fine, today they’re the enemy. You’ve seen it in Yugoslavia, you’ve seen it in Borneo. Now you’re seeing it here. So, I don’t know.

I’m a guy who’d like to blow up every safe space, every trigger warning. I would like to unleash every comedian to say "****" as many times as they like, or any other word they care to use. But the threshold of acceptable rhetoric right now, the threshold of hate and animus that’s being shown at this point — this really naked hatred of every flavor, racists, sexists, pure misogyny, class hatred, hatred of the educated — this is something I’ve never seen before. And it’s now acceptable! It’s more acceptable in public at political rallies than it is at universities, which is where people should be saying offensive ****.

So what will get us past this?

Changing demographics. Other than that, it’s Bond villain ****. I’m pessimistic to the extreme. I really think people have no idea how bad it already is, and how bad it’s going to get. I read a lot of history. We’ve heard all of this before. I think it’s that bad. It can easily go that way.

Do you expect anything will change with how you approach the show?

Already I’ve been accused, apparently indirectly, by the Erdogan government, who are saying chefs are actually working [as agents of foreign intelligence].

How does that make you feel?

I’m heartbroken. I enjoy visiting Turkey. It’s a place I have a lot of friends. Now I have to think about what happens to friends who I visit in Turkey, would that compromise their position? I wouldn’t go to Turkey if anyone I’d talk to would lose it or would be potentially under suspicion. They just purged tens of thousands of teachers and government employees on much less grounds. So, you know, that’s not helpful.

Russia clearly is going to be a problem for me. The last time I was there, they killed my lunch partner, you know? And I’m a little pissed about that. And I’ve expressed that publicly, which is increasingly not such a wise thing to do.

Will you be complaining in public less?

No. I don’t give a ****. What have I got to lose? I won’t be on TV anymore?

But if you can’t go to Turkey, you can’t go to Russia —

Well I can, but I choose — no. No, actually, I don’t know if I can go to Turkey at this point, given who said it, and what they said. Russia, I personally would feel uncomfortable there at this point. I have high hopes of seeing Turkey again, and I hope very much I will. I would love to see St. Petersburg again. But I’ve been a number of times. I’m old. There are still places to go.

As this far-right political wave is engulfing the world, do you think this list, the lineup of places where the cost of you visiting is too high, is going to grow?

Probably. Which makes it hard. I’ve been trying to get into Afghanistan for years. Kashmir has been difficult, I want very badly to go there. Yemen — that was high up on my list before everything went to hell there. But there are bigger problems. Venezuela, it’s a huge problem to get insured to go to Venezuela. I’ve been there a number of times, but with a TV show? It’s problematic.

As the number of conflict zones increase, as I’m guessing they likely will, I’m wary of looking to Uncle Sam for an understanding face at the embassy — especially given who’s up for ambassadorships now. I can call for help from whoever, but it’s nice to have someone who actually gives a ****. The last eight years have been very very good. [Ambassadors] have been smart people, for the most part. People who’ve lived in countries for a long time, even before they took the ambassadorships.

Have you thought about turning the camera inward on America even more, especially covering the people the media are now saying were under-covered — the white, red state, Trump’s-America, "real America" people?

I always do those shows. I like doing those shows very much. And I would try to do that in a loving way. I like Mississippi, I like Arkansas, Missouri, Montana.

What do you think of that phrase, "real America"?

"Real" — I hear that a lot, on my show. Any time I shoot in any city, someone’s going to say "How can you come to Mexico City and show only this and this and this, you didn’t show the real Mexico City." It can mean a lot of things. "How come you didn’t show the real Baltimore" can mean "How come you didn’t show white Baltimore?" Or it could mean "How come you didn’t show my side of the city, the part of the city that I know and I’m proud of and I wanted the world to see? And instead you came and you made a show about my town and it was a total disappointment to me, you concentrated on a tiny pocket, a corner that interested you for some reason." It doesn’t really mean anything, except to the people who say it, and whether they realize what it means or not, it’s a genuine expression of emotion. I mean, what is the real New York?

When you’re putting your shows together, if it’s not some semblance of "real," what are you looking for?

Beautiful cinematography, that’s really important. I want it to look beautiful. I want it to sound beautiful. And I’d like there to be a good story. And I want to feel a measure of happiness and satisfaction as I’m making the show, if possible.

What happens if the truth isn’t that beautiful?

Well, then we’ll show that. I’m really proud of the Madagascar show [which featured film director Darren Aronofsky as a traveling companion], because we showed the Aronofsky version at the end. We had this rather beautiful show made, with a nice, potentially heartwarming kind of conclusion, and instead I decided we should let Darren look back and see what we’d already visited, and exactly how ugly it was — and how unreliable the entire television process is. The camera’s a liar. It only tells the story we want you to see.

Isn’t that exactly what people are mad at news media about? I’m also very cynical about this sort of stuff, but it seems clear to me that there’s no such thing as unbiased media, because there’s no such thing as unbiased experience.

Look, I think Walter Cronkite, Edward Murrow — those guys tried. The news was pretty dry, back then. They were all products of the same schools and the same environments. Chances are they shared many of the same experiences, too. These guys went through wars. But their backgrounds were similar. And in the eyes of many, that made them unreliable, and that’s not an unreasonable impulse. Our best and brightest and most liberal gave us Vietnam, after that.

Even though you don’t want to have responsibility, or even the illusion thereof, there’s still a responsibility that your audience imposes on you, whether or not you choose to accept it. Do you think those expectations are changing?

I hope not. I’m just going to keep doing what I’m doing. It’s about the story, whether you like it or not.

What happens if people stop liking the story?

That’s already the case. A lot of people are like, "I’m never watching your show again, now that you’ve moved to the Clinton News Network." As if they’ll fall asleep for a few seconds at the end of my show, and wake up and catch a few minutes of Wolf Blitzer, and it causes some homosexual urges and a desire to join Al Qaeda.

I don’t have an agenda, but I do have a point of view, and it might change from minute to minute. I like going to places thinking one thing, and being proven wrong. A journalist has to have an agenda — who-what-why-where — and I don’t want to ask those questions. That’s a prison to me. I’m not here to ask you specific questions, I’m here to ask general questions. What’s your life like? Tell me a story.

But if I can convince people to look around, and see who’s actually doing a lot of the work in this country — picking vegetables, it’s all immigrant labor — and then ask themselves, truly, whether they under any circumstances would take that job? You know, to look in the eyes of the cook who makes their eggs-over every day, and ask themselves whether they’d want to stand outside their house and be dragged away from their kids? If I can convince a few people to go to a country like Oman, which has a completely non-sectarian version of Islam, which is incredibly tolerant and super cool, or to Senegal, where they’re Sufi, they’re just as devout as anyone in the Islamic world but people who just came from Dubuque, they’d be comfortable there, they’d find beauty in it, they’d hear the call to prayer and think "Okay, there might be something here other than what I thought"? That would please me. But it’s not my mission.

No?

No. I’m a fool, I will die a fool. Relatively proudly, I hope. I’m trying not to do **** I’m ashamed of.

So if not you, who’s gonna do it?

I don’t see the platform. How? No one watches one news station. They pick their own now, where everything is rosy and wonderful — or evil and conspiratorial, depending on how you feel. Twitter is proving not helpful, Facebook has been, you know. The troll army has been really interesting. They come up pretty dependably any time the Russia show airs. For a while, any seriously anti-Trump **** I posted, I would get a group of them, a fairly organized troll army, and not just eggs. That’s a new wrinkle. And that ain’t gonna go away. This is now a new, effective way to communicate.

So there’s no way out?

Not at all. I honestly don’t think so. I’m sticking it out, I’m not gonna run away to Canada. I’m gonna pay my ****in’ taxes, I’m gonna vote, I’m gonna do all of that. But I’m not going to be taking it to the streets any time soon — well, we’ll see. I think we’re going to be feeling the effects of this for a long time. I’m just not optimistic. I worry about my daughter, of course

Your daughter is nine, which means she’s coming of age probably right when the **** hits its peak.

She’s an Italian citizen. She has an exit strategy. She speaks Italian. She has an out, if she chooses.

But not everybody has an out.

Nope. I don’t. It’s too late for me. I’m not going anywhere. Maybe for a while, here and there. But I just don’t see a lot of light. If I were a hardcore revolutionary, I would be applauding this — I’d be like, "Oh, the pendulum will swing so far over, and it’ll bring the temple down, and then disaster, and then we’ll have our revolution!" But I don’t believe that, and I’m contemptuous of people who feel that way.

I think it was Lenin who said one of my favorite lines: "On the train of the revolution, we will lose the liberals at the first turn." It’s always worth remembering: In any revolution, whose heads are gonna be on the pike first? Us. And shortly after that, the originators and founders of the revolution. Asia Argento said it in the Rome episode: We create idols so we can destroy them.

So what do you make of Alessandro Borgognone bringing Sushi Nakazawa into the Trump DC hotel?

I will never eat in his restaurant. I have utter contempt for him, utter and complete contempt. Just like David Burke — I mean, I never had the highest opinion of him in the first place, but I guess he’s the last person in this life I should look to for principles. Burke went in and took over [the space Jose Andres had originally occupied], and promptly tried to poach his staff, I hear. This was after Jose reached out and said "Everyone welcome him to Washington, don’t hold it against him, just because I decided to pull out." So Burke’s a steaming loaf of ****, as far as I’m concerned, and feel free to quote me.

It’s not helpful, that sort of thing [opening in a contentious hotel]. I’m not asking you to start putting up barricades now, but when they come and ask you, "Are you with us?" You do have an option. You can say "No thanks, guys. I don’t look good in a brown shirt. Makes me look a little, I don’t know, not great. It’s not slimming."

So what do you think was going through their heads when they were like, "I’m gonna throw in with the bad guys"?

"I’m gonna get in good with the President and make me some money!" What did Kanye West go to Trump Tower for? Why did Al Gore go? Why did Mitt Romney go?

What would you do if he invited you?

I’m not going. I’m not going.

And I would never go to the White House Correspondents’ dinner — though I doubt there will be another. Thank god, that’s an institution I’d like to see die for years. If there’s one good thing to come out of the Trump administration, let it be that there will be no more White House Correspondents’ dinners. It reinforces all the world’s worst notions about the hideous, inside-the-beltway, all-in-it-together culture. It brings honor to no one to have Kim Kardashian or Tara Reid sitting there next to a news anchor. What is this all about? Fuck that. If I’m gonna make fun of you today, I’m not accepting your food tomorrow. I had dinner with President Obama, but I paid. We were offered Air Force One, and I said, "There’s no way. No way."

That sounds a lot like journalism.

Yeah! It’s like, "Be my friend, be my special friend." No, we’re not going to be your special friend. Personally, I have a very low opinion of people who behave this way.

And Trump — the man eats his steak well done! I don’t think he’s a good person. I remember the Central Park Five, and what he said. I’ve seen how he’s treated employees. I saw what he did to Atlantic City. I saw what he did to the west side of this town. It’s ****in’ ugly. He’s going to make the whole world look like the back of Rick James’ van.

Do you think we just have to sit back and wait for him to do all that, before the people who support him right now will realize it’s terrible?

Yes! Look, I came out of the ‘60s, and I remember very well all the demonstrations and the civil unrest against the Vietnam war. The left likes to remember it one way. I remember that the result is that you get Nixon — twice! By landslides! And we got him even after Watergate. That was the mood of the "real America" that you talk about. I don’t know that streets filled with demonstrators and opposition is a real argument.

Hunter Thompson said, America looks soft but under the flab it’s all ****ing titanium steel underbelly, and it’ll come rolling right over you, any time it wants. And look, there are people in this world who have deliberately inspired exactly that kind of opposition, just to give them a reason to roll over it. So I’m not saying we should sit back docilely and silently while Trump dismantles our institutions, and our Supreme Court, and the rights of individuals, as men, as women, as parents — I’m not saying that at all. But we’d better come up with some fresh ****in’ ideas. And I would think that they’d better be grass roots, and they should keep very much in mind all those people who voted for Trump. Many of whom surely, surely, are decent people who love their kids, and go to sleep at night like all of us wanting good things for their kids, a roof over their heads, some security, to live without fear, a measure of justice, some hope. Anything that doesn’t include that kind of an outreach, that’s not going to help. That’ll be playing into their hands. I lived through the ‘60s. There ain’t gonna be no revolution.

It laid the groundwork for a revolution, though.

Yes, but it failed. Everybody likes to pretend that it succeeded, but it didn’t. Are we any less racist now? Okay, some of the laws have changed. Great. But are we any less racist as a nation? I don’t know. I’m looking for some evidence right now and I don’t see it. If anything, I see that there’s a whole hell of a lot of people out there super pissed off at this "atmosphere of political correctness" that has not allowed them to say all the racist **** that they feel pressured into not being able to say. Apparently this was a very powerful compulsion. It must have been torture for them all these years. And now they can say it.

Political correctness was never law, it was just etiquette.

You know, it’s why they always kill the comedians and the poets first. People can’t stand ridicule. It clearly gets under Trump’s skin — he can’t bear it, it’s really a problem for him. So if you’re looking to do something, I think, you should ridicule him. Not his voters. His cabinet, for sure, and his appointees, but not all at once. Stick with him. Successful agitprop — I mean, look at Gerald Ford. He will always be remembered as this bumbling Chevy Chase, a head injury waiting to happen.

Do you think ridicule is the right form of activism?

There’s right, and then there’s effective. Now, to go all partigiano — tactically and strategically, I think at this point, it’s unsound, this idea that we’re gonna take to the hills. It’s not going to work. It’s going to be a long wait. I think we need outreach, understanding, to look inside yourself and ask, how the **** did we get here? What did we do wrong? Who did we not convince? Who did we not make a meaningful argument to? And how do we reach them? What is our common ground? How do we bring them over, to understand that this man does not have their interests at heart? How do we make a reasonable argument? To not say that they’re idiots or fools or yokels or any of that ****, but to say look, these guys are not here to help. We’re here to help. Or at least, we’re marginally more likely to.

Do you have a point in your day where you’re on your third cup of coffee and you’re like "Oh, that’s right, we’re on the path to fascism"?

No, I’m not that panicky about it. I don’t know why. I’m clearly not that enthusiastic, or optimistic. But the Nixon reelection was a formative moment for me. We already knew that he didn’t have a secret plan to end the war. Everyone was aware of Watergate. But it didn’t matter. And the opposition, such as it was, had either been successfully dismantled or devolved under its own dead weight and self-indulgence.

But nobody wants to hear some successful Hollywood actor or TV person’s opinion on politics. I certainly don’t. It’s enraging.

And yet, I think a lot of people do.

They’re voting their own way anyway. People do what people do. People do good things and bad things. They do what they think is in their immediate self-interest, and in the interest of their families and loved ones.

This is the thing that shocks me. All of these guys [working with Trump], they’re like the cast of — they were the bad guys in Animal House, all grown up! Every frat movie, every meathead movie, Porky’s, Meatballs, the jocks versus the nerds, the jocks versus the hippies, any dystopian thriller, every film America’s ever done. These are clearly the bad guys!

"Rex Tillerson" is the most evil name. It’s straight out of DC Comics.

I mean, "Reince Priebus"! And Rudy, I mean he looks like he comes out of Powerpuff Girls. He’s absolutely, slaveringly demonic.

Do you think they know they’re evil?

Giuliani does. People have been telling him since the beginning of his career. But I’m sure he knows.

You know, in the run-up to the market on Pier 57, we were talking to some very interested, very, very rich parties — and I mean really rich, multi-billionaires, running somewhere in the 10 or 20 percent range of all commercial real estate in New York. What’s really amazing about them, I noticed, is they have really great skin. These guys are in their 50s, maybe early 60s, and their skin is fantastic. Their pores are really clean. Their grooming is impeccable. They must have their hair cut every two days. And they’ve gotta be exfoliated, or have a whole facial — I mean, the nails! Just the maintenance of the corpus is extraordinary. It’s an evil all its own. Already, you don’t like that guy. Does he have a manservant? He must. A barber, the nails, the French cuffs.

Is it possible to become that wealthy without becoming evil?

What, behind every great fortune there’s a great crime? I think behind every fortune there’s a crime. Behind every even reasonable amount of money, there’s a crime. I’m doing okay, and behind that there’s a crime. Many. If you make any money at all that you hang on to, you ****ed somebody, somehow. You disappointed somebody. I’m not saying you betrayed a friend, you cut somebody’s throat, you cheated them out of their share of the deal. I haven’t done those things. But I’ve hurt and disappointed people, on my journey. I’ve hurt and disappointed people.

Capitalism as a series of exploitations.

Well, communism hasn’t worked out so great either. It’s far worse, in my view. I know we’re like, Democracy sucks! But it’s the best thing we’ve got going at the moment. I’ve been to a lot of communist countries, and where they take it seriously it’s a horror, and where it’s a joke, it’s a joke — except for the people who arbitrarily have to take it in the neck.

Do you think people will be watching your show in a different way now?

I have no idea. People watch my show for all sorts of reasons. I like it when I do speaking gigs up in serious farm country, especially in the northern Midwest. People will buy VIP tickets, which are a lot of ****in’ money, and they’ll stand on line. It’ll be mom, dad, and their teenage son, and they’ve driven two hours, they live on a farm. You can smell the farm on them. And they always call me "Sir." "Thank you for coming to wherever, Sir." Relentlessly polite, very dignified, very proud. Smelling of that farm. That loneliness — living, as they’ve told me many times, miles from their neighbors. What do people take away from my show? What they need. What they want.

My ideal viewer would be a guy who isn’t involved at all in politics, who’s not interested in my opinion, who can freely reject me: "Oh that *******, there he is with that **** again, let’s see. Oh, but that’s pretty, that’s interesting, that might be a place i might go some day, that cheese looks interesting, that looks good."

That seems like it could serve as a hook to get him to eventually stop disagreeing with what you have to say. He thinks the cheese looks good or the place is pretty and soon — well, it’s a crack in the door.

In the Vietnam show, I asked my friend, who I’ve known for many years, about why she stopped giving tours at the American War Museum. It was a terrible thing to ask because I knew why she left, and I was pretty sure she was going to cry on camera. She gave tours year after year after year, mostly to Americans who would come to be confronted with the damage. I did this terrible thing because I wanted people to see how I felt about her. I really never thought that I want you to feel this way too, but to believe that I feel this way.

Film is so subjective. When I look off a boat, I want people to feel the way that I felt looking off that boat. We try really hard to get people to feel the way I felt. But it’s basically a selfish enterprise. I’m doing my best to create a beautiful object that will work, and my aim is to make you feel the way I felt. It is not for you to go running out the door, calling your congressman. I mean, it would be great if you do. But it would make me feel a little weird.

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arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is what you said to BRIGGS on page 40:

Absolutely. This was my point all along and I was told that this argument is disrespectful.
To discard the huge achievement made by millions AA people in all ways of live after stopping crying and waiting with open hands for government help and starting building their live, family, and community on their own terms is disrespectful indeed. They are an example of perseverance, strength, and determination. They are what America is all about.

You have said this time and time again, in different forms, in two threads..This was just the latest..It really doesn't bother me to be honest, I believe it's the way the majority feels, not just you...It's just an incorrect perception but nothing new...I really believe in an honest dialogue especially on the internet where no one can lose anything, because of their honesty..It's a place where we can probe deeper than in a face to face setting like work, and actually talk about the difficult things in life..All opinions are welcomed in my opinion..I'm not trying to get you to stop bringing forward your point of view, I just want to keep the honesty flowing so we all know exactly where we are coming from...If you see something I'm doing, I welcome the criticism...

In this sentence I prized the achievements of millions of AA people in the face of diversity and trails of racism.
Not sure why you perverted the meaning of it to me somehow blaming people who did not achieve progress and prosperity.
There are millions of "whites" and other people who did not make it. Complacency and reliance on outside support is one of the reasons why they did not.
Over-reliance and abuse of social services is an issue in many countries and for all population groups.
To me one of the issues is well known American exceptionalism and American AA exceptionalism specifically.
The problems America and American AA community is facing are not unique.
Slavery left its trail in Africa and many countries in Latin America.
Racism killed millions in Europe and Asia and continue to kill every day.
This issues are world wide problems. May be the main obstacle human race is facing our days.

What you seem not to be able to admit is that this is AMERICA!!! It's been a Hypocritical country for most of it's entire history. You know "Land of the Free" and holding it's principles of Democracy up to the world all the while holding Slaves or later Denying equal rights to it's minorities.

AA's get angry about the way European Immigrants have been given opportunities to climb up the social ladder that were denied to AA's. It's not relevant that Slavery is an old failing in the world or that other countries oppress their people!!! This country is supposed to be different and People like yourself come here to enjoy the freedoms and opportunity this country provides. ALL THE WHILE AA'S WHO HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING ARE DENIED!!! NATIVES HAVE BEEN KILLED, ABUSED AND LIED TO!!! MEXICANS HAVE BEEN SCAPEGOATED AND USED AS POLITICAL PAWNS!!!

This is straight bullsht.
The people who came here build their life with hard work and perseverance.
I came here with 2K in my pocket and never get any help except of 6 month of refugee money which were less that SSI...
I was not aware about "white" and AA even existed.
I really enjoyed and will enjoy the opportunity.
But opportunity means nothing if you not work for it.
With bigoted attitude you have against people of other races you will not get far.
Racism is racism. It does not mater if it comes from majority or minority. Same crap.

I've had to tell this to BRIGGS as well but my family is Multiracial and I don't hate other races!!!
Good for you that you were able to come here and find success. Just don't dismiss the grievances of those who have been here for hundreds of years struggling in an unjust system.

I've already "gotten far" so I don't accept your take at all. What I do is present FACTS! This system from the very start had an original sin and it was Slavery and Racism. The problem wasn't with the Slaves!!! You want some kind of moral equivalence were all Racism is equal but I'm not talking about INDIVIDUALS with racist views. I'm talking about a system built over hundreds of years in this country that disadvantages minorities.

You once again mentioned WORKING HARD. I can tell you that minorities have ALWAYS worked hard and still they face obstacles that White people don't face. If you're a person of color it's scary how easily you can get caught up in the teeth of this machine.

Most poor Whites face many of the same hurdles but for people of color there's another set of obstacles that a White person doesn't face. It's not about working hard when Trump and his father refused to rent to Black people!!! It's not about working hard when you get shot by a cop cuz he assumed the Black guy was a threat when in fact he was looking for HELP!

A lot of those obstacles created by modern democratic establishment policies to increase their voters and pockets

gunsnewing wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is what you said to BRIGGS on page 40:

Absolutely. This was my point all along and I was told that this argument is disrespectful.
To discard the huge achievement made by millions AA people in all ways of live after stopping crying and waiting with open hands for government help and starting building their live, family, and community on their own terms is disrespectful indeed. They are an example of perseverance, strength, and determination. They are what America is all about.

You have said this time and time again, in different forms, in two threads..This was just the latest..It really doesn't bother me to be honest, I believe it's the way the majority feels, not just you...It's just an incorrect perception but nothing new...I really believe in an honest dialogue especially on the internet where no one can lose anything, because of their honesty..It's a place where we can probe deeper than in a face to face setting like work, and actually talk about the difficult things in life..All opinions are welcomed in my opinion..I'm not trying to get you to stop bringing forward your point of view, I just want to keep the honesty flowing so we all know exactly where we are coming from...If you see something I'm doing, I welcome the criticism...

In this sentence I prized the achievements of millions of AA people in the face of diversity and trails of racism.
Not sure why you perverted the meaning of it to me somehow blaming people who did not achieve progress and prosperity.
There are millions of "whites" and other people who did not make it. Complacency and reliance on outside support is one of the reasons why they did not.
Over-reliance and abuse of social services is an issue in many countries and for all population groups.
To me one of the issues is well known American exceptionalism and American AA exceptionalism specifically.
The problems America and American AA community is facing are not unique.
Slavery left its trail in Africa and many countries in Latin America.
Racism killed millions in Europe and Asia and continue to kill every day.
This issues are world wide problems. May be the main obstacle human race is facing our days.

What you seem not to be able to admit is that this is AMERICA!!! It's been a Hypocritical country for most of it's entire history. You know "Land of the Free" and holding it's principles of Democracy up to the world all the while holding Slaves or later Denying equal rights to it's minorities.

AA's get angry about the way European Immigrants have been given opportunities to climb up the social ladder that were denied to AA's. It's not relevant that Slavery is an old failing in the world or that other countries oppress their people!!! This country is supposed to be different and People like yourself come here to enjoy the freedoms and opportunity this country provides. ALL THE WHILE AA'S WHO HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING ARE DENIED!!! NATIVES HAVE BEEN KILLED, ABUSED AND LIED TO!!! MEXICANS HAVE BEEN SCAPEGOATED AND USED AS POLITICAL PAWNS!!!

This is straight bullsht.
The people who came here build their life with hard work and perseverance.
I came here with 2K in my pocket and never get any help except of 6 month of refugee money which were less that SSI...
I was not aware about "white" and AA even existed.
I really enjoyed and will enjoy the opportunity.
But opportunity means nothing if you not work for it.
With bigoted attitude you have against people of other races you will not get far.
Racism is racism. It does not mater if it comes from majority or minority. Same crap.

I've had to tell this to BRIGGS as well but my family is Multiracial and I don't hate other races!!!
Good for you that you were able to come here and find success. Just don't dismiss the grievances of those who have been here for hundreds of years struggling in an unjust system.

I've already "gotten far" so I don't accept your take at all. What I do is present FACTS! This system from the very start had an original sin and it was Slavery and Racism. The problem wasn't with the Slaves!!! You want some kind of moral equivalence were all Racism is equal but I'm not talking about INDIVIDUALS with racist views. I'm talking about a system built over hundreds of years in this country that disadvantages minorities.

You once again mentioned WORKING HARD. I can tell you that minorities have ALWAYS worked hard and still they face obstacles that White people don't face. If you're a person of color it's scary how easily you can get caught up in the teeth of this machine.

Most poor Whites face many of the same hurdles but for people of color there's another set of obstacles that a White person doesn't face. It's not about working hard when Trump and his father refused to rent to Black people!!! It's not about working hard when you get shot by a cop cuz he assumed the Black guy was a threat when in fact he was looking for HELP!

A lot of those obstacles created by modern democratic establishment policies to increase their voters and pockets

What are you referring to specifically?

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is not an African American Problem!!! This is about the larger White Society that has allowed this kind of crap to continue to go on!!! If I keep burning your house down no matter where you go and what you do to try and prevent it, is that your fault??? NO YOU'RE BEING ATTACKED!!!

This is what is happening and has always happened to African Americans, Native Americans and other Minorities. They are just trying to live like every average American but they have powerful forces who are constantly doing detrimental things to AA's. Such as Police Forces that over-police Black Neighborhoods like Stop and Frisk and extract money to pay for the Cities needs like Ferguson. Predatory Lending. Longer Sentences for the same crimes. Voter Suppression Laws. etc.

Arkrud you keep thinking that AA's and those who support them have somehow not been working to try and change things. There has ALWAYS been efforts to change things for the better. Perhaps you simply aren't paying attention to what has been presented in this thread. This is also about the Poor and Middle Class, but as i've pointed out before, there are people who don't want Poor and Middle Class of all Races to come together. This has been the fear of those in power since the beginning.

This is why I posted the racist political ad above. It proves that this is a tactic that has been used since the end of the Civil War.

There have always been multiracial efforts to fight against this. This is Frederick Douglas and White Abolitionists.

Do you get it now???

I never denied anything that you said.
I interact with many AA people every day and cannot see them being any different from other folks and cannot see them being treated differently.
I guess I never lived in areas where is not like that.
Lived in Brooklyn and in NJ in various counties and all is pretty civilized out there.
I do not even pay attention to race, color, and accents at all because this is irrelevant to me.

Well MOST African Americans don't live in NYC!!! The vast Majority are living where they've always lived in the Old Slave States. It's called the Black Belt. These states have a history of mistreating AA's and the Laws are constantly being written to disadvantage AA's in every way they can get away with. Sure you can sue but they just come up with another law and you're constantly chasing and fighting which doesn't leave much time or money for people to PROGRESS!!!

This is what i've been trying to explain to you. Perhaps now you are ready to accept that this is a very difficult situation. The People in these areas are STUBBORN and were brought up with the Racist Mentality from the Old Days. There are some who want to change that but there is a very large group that doesn't want change! Why do you think they've had Segregated Proms even up to recent years???

Once you get out of the Big Cities it's pretty much like going back in time in the rest of the country!!! There's a certain order of things in Rural America and it's the Old Order that still dominates. In the South we have Holidays you don't have!

8 States Still Have Holidays Celebrating The Confederacy

Over 150 years ago, the state of Alabama took up arms against the United States in order to defend the state’s practice of enslaving black people and forcing them to work to enrich white property owners. Today, the state celebrates its four years of treason in defense of slavery with a statewide holiday.

Under Alabama law, the fourth Monday in April is “Confederate Memorial Day” — and this is actually one of two Confederate-themed holidays celebrated by the state. State law also recognizes the first Monday in January as a celebration of Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s birthday. State offices, courts, and licensing offices are all closed on Monday because of the state holiday.

Nor is Alabama alone in using today to celebrate the Confederacy. Mississippi also celebrates Confederate Memorial Day, although Mississippi state offices will only close “at the discretion of the executive head of the department or agency.” Until recently, Georgia celebrated the same holiday — in 2015, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) renamed Confederate Memorial Day with the generic term “state holiday.”

In total, eight states — Alabama, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Texas — still celebrate some sort of Confederate holiday, although the nature of the celebration (and whether state workers get the day off) varies from state to state. Texas’ holiday, which the state celebrated on January 19th, is called “Confederate Heroes Day.” Meanwhile, Virginia has long used its Confederate holiday as a counterbalance to the federal holiday honoring a fallen civil rights leader.

Shortly after federal legislation created a national holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Virginia combined that holiday with another celebration honoring Confederate Generals Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson. This “Lee-Jackson-King Day” existed until 2000, when it was split into two holidays.

Now, Virginia honors the man who died advancing the cause of racial justice on a Monday and the two men who fought to maintain slavery on the proceeding Friday.

https://thinkprogress.org/8-states-still-have-holidays-celebrating-the-confederacy-886db691da54#.xyei56s03

It is difficult to me and most new emigrants who are not leaving in the South to get into your shoes but I can relate.
I was leaving in the countries where antisemitism is the second nature of the absolute majority of the population.
It was no other way to survive and stop leaving in fear but to leave.
This what makes us refugees.
And this people who we left behind will not get better. They will find some other way to separate and abuse somebody.
Until they will self-destruct.
We can see this self-distraction happening all over the world. The ricochet.
But people never learn... so may be it is fair at the end.

It used to be that European Immigrants were mistreated in America by Native Born White Americans. Over time they were able to blend into the larger White Society. That doesn't work for Non White people here. I can't just blend in.

Originally there were White Indentured Servants in America but they were not slaves for life. Then they decided that the easier path was to make a law that Negro Servants should be Slaves for life. Skin color made an easy way to establish the order of class in American society.

AFRICANS ARRIVE IN VIRGINIA, 1619

The social status of the first Africans in Jamestown was confusing, and perhaps deliberately ambiguous. Records from 1623 and 1624 list the black inhabitants of the colony as servants, not slaves. In these same records, however, white indentured servants are listed along with the year in which they were to attain freedom; no such year accompanies the names of black servants. Freedom was the birthright of William Tucker, the first African born in the colonies. Yet court records show that at least one African had been declared a slave by 1640, the year that slavery was officially instituted in Jamestown. After the legalization of slavery by the Virginia colony, the African population began to rise slowly and steadily. The number of blacks increased from 23 in 1625 to approximately three hundred in 1650.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/africans-arrive-virginia-1619

Works same way for Africans, Indians, Chines, Argentinians, and others as for Europeans.
I know a couple of people personally. They came to US from Kenya and Nigeria and do quite well.
They do notice some police profiling but after actual conversations with officers thay have no farther issues.
I am not saying that there are no issues. They are. But not as drastic as you portrait.

HOW THE PHUCK WOULD YOU KNOW???

You know you say a lot of dumb shyte! Come down here and hangout with some of the Sons of the Confederacy on Confederates Day and see what you think. It's a very convenient thing to be smug and flippant when you live in a Big City in the North East per se but not everyone is so fortunate. Some people have never escaped the ravages of Slavery and Jim Crow and that poverty and lack of education has them trapped in bad situations.

You need to get in a car and travel the country. Don't go to all the glamorous hot spots. Go into the backwaters and small towns and you might learn something.

I am not hanging out with racists of any color or nation.
And they exist of any kind.
I knew some racist Jews and they are disgusting regardless of justifications they try to sell.
Think about what you are saying yourself "...very convenient thing to be smug and flippant when you live in a Big City in the North East per se but not everyone is so fortunate." Do you really know all this people and the issues they have in their life? Do you think they all deserve your dismissal?
Anger and hate are bad for anyone... they became like those who they hate and start hating the whole world. Why to self-distract?

My father is very distrustful of White people. He of course was born in the 1940's and his life experiences with White people were not good. I didn't know anything about this kind of experience since my best friend growing up in Queens was White. We we started out in kindergarten and now both of us are grandparents. I of course have had my own run ins with White Racists but unlike my father I had the benefit of growing up in an integrated society and yet even I realize things were not just or equal for everyone.

You are trying to put me in the category of a racist or bigot when all I'm doing is stating the facts about how things are and why. You have a convenient situation that allows you to look for moral equivalence but if you were an African American in this country your entire life you would not have had this luxury!!! I didn't have it being chased along a country road as a child by the KKK. You would've been running right alongside me if you were there! Don't tell me anything about racism.

This is a problem. You don't want to hear anything that shaking your view of the world.
That's why you recycling the same arguments ignoring most of my points.
Contrary I am open to change my views and I did already based on our conversation.
World is changing every moment so should our view.
Its not a problem, it is strength.
Flexibility and acceptance is a key to individual and societal success.
I am just sharing the knowledge I have and which worked wonders for a lot of people.
You a welcome to use it or reject it. It is up to you.

Arkrud you don't know what you don't know! That's the problem. You can't drop in and try to teach me about this country that my family has been in since before the American Revolution!!! You don't understand the dynamics of life in this country. You're relatively new and instead of being humble about your lack of knowledge you're arrogantly trying to lecture us about subjects you don't fully understand.

I wish things were so simple as you think they are. I can assure you that the solutions are not just about African Americans working harder. That is F'n insulting in addition to being flat out wrong. People of color have been disadvantaged by this system for a very long time and it's still happening only the tactics are less overt. If you have to spend so much effort, time and money trying to overcome these obstacles how can you ever make progress?

What you fail to recognize is that AA's already started off with less and with the negative impact of poverty and poor education. Then pile on top of that a system built to disadvantage them and keep them from power over their lives and do this for a few hundred years. It's going to have long lasting impact. If you're poor and living in a Black neighborhood there aren't the same resources available. No fresh food but plenty of liquor stores and drug dealers. Food deserts are a very real thing. There are so many issues I can point to and it's not an accident that things are like this. Redlinig and packing AA's into ghettos was done on purpose and still goes on!!! Man I'm done talking to you cuz you have nothing to add to this conversation.

Yep. So do you.
We are like two ships in the open ocean.
We met, exchange the horns, and went in opposite directions.
Its fine. Ocean is huge. Every ship will find his cost.
But do not stuck in you misery, the world is a beautiful place.
Don't worry, Be happy!!!

NYPD Stop And Frisks: 15 Shocking Facts About A Controversial Program
05/15/2012 09:43 am ET | Updated May 15, 2012

Earlier this week, the NYCLU released a report on NYPD stop and frisks. The report prompted Public Advocate (and likely mayoral candidate) Bill de Blasio to call for an internal audit of the program. Other politicians, including Jumaane Williams, Christine Quinn, Scott Stringer, and John Liu have also called for stop and frisk reform.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly have continued to defend the use of the program from criticism, saying it saves lives.

Here are 15 shocking facts about NYPD stop and frisks.

1. “In Brownsville, Brooklyn In 2009, 93 Out Of Every 100 Residents Were Stopped By The NYPD“

2. The NYPD Can Stop And Frisk You In Your Building

“Operation Clean Halls,” has been in effect since 1991. As Matt Taibbi describes, “it allows police to execute so-called “vertical patrols” by going up into private buildings and conducting stop-and-frisk searches in hallways –- with the landlord’s permission.”

The NYPD conducted 240,000 vertical patrols in 2003, and according to the NYCLU — who has filed a lawsuit against the police department regarding Clean Halls — “virtually every private apartment building [in the Bronx] is enrolled in the program,” and “in Manhattan alone, there are at least 3,895 Clean Halls Buildings.”

3. A Hugely Disproportional Number Of Blacks And Latinos Are Stopped And Frisked By The NYPD

stop and frisk nypd new york

87 percent of those stopped by the NYPD in 2011 were black or latino.

4. The NYPD Is Stop-And-Frisk Happy

Since 2003, after Mayor Bloomberg took office, NYPD stop and frisks have increased 600 percent. In 2011, a record 684, 330 stops were conducted by New York City police officers. In the first three months of 2012, the NYPD stopped and frisked people 203,500 times. In the same three months last year, the NYPD stopped people 183,326 times.

5. More Young Black Men Were Stopped By The NYPD In 2011 Than There Are Young Black Men in New York City

nyclu nypd stop and frisks minorities

6. The NYPD Can Was Allowed To Stop And Frisk You In A Livery Cab

The Taxi/Livery Inspection Program (TRIP), was designed to prevent livery cab drivers from being robbed. Livery cabs who engaged in the program had placards that allowed the NYPD to pull over the car and search the vehicle. NYPD officers would often frisk the passengers inside.

After a lawsuit filed by the NYCLU last year, however, Ray Kelly has ordered cops to stop enforcing the program.

From The New York Daily News:

The NYPD operational order, issued on April 27, is a direct result of a lawsuit filed by two men who say they were forced out of livery cars and searched by cops, police sources said. In separate incidents, both men accused police of racial profiling and unlawful searches.

7. The NYPD Uses Force Against Black And Latinos More Than Whites

stop and frisk nypd force

8. With Huge Increase In Stop And Frisks, Only Minor Increase In Guns Found

The NYPD argues this shows the effectiveness of stop and frisk, saying the practice has prevented people from carrying guns on the street.

stop and frisk nypd

9. Small Percentage Actually Involved In Violent Crime

The NYPD and local politicians have repeatedly defended the racial disparity in stops by saying minorities are disproportionately involved in violent crime. In 2011, however, in only 10.5 percent of stops did cops record “violent criminal activity” as justification for the stop.

10. NYPD Will Stop You For ‘Inappropriate Attire Off Season‘

Also, for visible bulges in your pocket. And, in 51.3 percent of the stops in 2011, cops cited “furtive movements” as justification for the stops.

11. Many Stops Are Unconstitutional

When the Supreme Court deemed stop and frisk a legal practice, they set up a standard of “reasonable suspicion” under which cops “must be able to point to specific and articulable facts.” To rely on “inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or [a] ‘hunch’ ” is not permitted. In almost one out of three stops, according to The Center For Constitutional Rights, the NYPD fails to meet this standard:

Nearly 150,000 stops over the last six years are facially unconstitutional and lack any legal justification. All together, 30 percent of all stops are unconstitutional, underlining a severe lack of adequate officer oversight in the NYPD.

12. The Vast Majority Of Those Stopped Are Innocent

Nine out of 10 of those stopped in 2011 were neither arrested nor given summonses.

13. Whites Are Almost Twice As Likely To Be Found With A Weapon

The NYPD and politicians have repeatedly justified the racial disparity in stop and frisks saying that they cops essentially go where the guns are, i.e. minority neighborhoods. Yet, only 1.9 percent of frisks in 2011 turned up weapons and interestingly, according to the NYCLU, “a weapon was found in only 1.8 percent of blacks and Latinos frisked, as compared to a weapon being found in 3.8 percent of whites frisked.”

14. The NYPD Faces Numerous Stop And Frisk Lawsuits

From The Village Voice:

In the month of January alone, more than three dozen lawsuits alleging improper stop-and-frisks were filed, based on a Voice reading of the complaints. Extrapolated, that means that the city could be sued more than 400 times this year alone just on improper stops.
If each case settles for a minimum of $10,000, that’s at least $4 million in cost to taxpayers, not including the cost to the police department in work hours assembling the documents and removing cops from the street to be deposed, and the cost to the corporation counsel in paying lawyers to defend those cases. One wonders how much money the city is willing to spend on this litigation just to stick with the police commissioner’s campaign. (We asked the city law department this question but did not receive a response.)

15. Stop And Frisks Don’t Always Drive Down Murder Statistics

It is true that the first decade of the aughts in New York City has seen significantly fewer murders than say, the 1980s, when there were about 2,000 slayings a year. Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, and others believe this drop is largely due to stop and frisks taking guns off the street. The link, however, between increased stop and frisks and lower murder rates could be a tenuous one. From The New York Times:

In 2002, when Mr. Kelly last took office, officers stopped 97,296 New Yorkers and the city reported 587 homicides. Last year, those numbers were 685,724 and 532.