arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is not an African American Problem!!! This is about the larger White Society that has allowed this kind of crap to continue to go on!!! If I keep burning your house down no matter where you go and what you do to try and prevent it, is that your fault??? NO YOU'RE BEING ATTACKED!!!

This is what is happening and has always happened to African Americans, Native Americans and other Minorities. They are just trying to live like every average American but they have powerful forces who are constantly doing detrimental things to AA's. Such as Police Forces that over-police Black Neighborhoods like Stop and Frisk and extract money to pay for the Cities needs like Ferguson. Predatory Lending. Longer Sentences for the same crimes. Voter Suppression Laws. etc.

Arkrud you keep thinking that AA's and those who support them have somehow not been working to try and change things. There has ALWAYS been efforts to change things for the better. Perhaps you simply aren't paying attention to what has been presented in this thread. This is also about the Poor and Middle Class, but as i've pointed out before, there are people who don't want Poor and Middle Class of all Races to come together. This has been the fear of those in power since the beginning.

This is why I posted the racist political ad above. It proves that this is a tactic that has been used since the end of the Civil War.

There have always been multiracial efforts to fight against this. This is Frederick Douglas and White Abolitionists.

Do you get it now???

I never denied anything that you said.
I interact with many AA people every day and cannot see them being any different from other folks and cannot see them being treated differently.
I guess I never lived in areas where is not like that.
Lived in Brooklyn and in NJ in various counties and all is pretty civilized out there.
I do not even pay attention to race, color, and accents at all because this is irrelevant to me.

Well MOST African Americans don't live in NYC!!! The vast Majority are living where they've always lived in the Old Slave States. It's called the Black Belt. These states have a history of mistreating AA's and the Laws are constantly being written to disadvantage AA's in every way they can get away with. Sure you can sue but they just come up with another law and you're constantly chasing and fighting which doesn't leave much time or money for people to PROGRESS!!!

This is what i've been trying to explain to you. Perhaps now you are ready to accept that this is a very difficult situation. The People in these areas are STUBBORN and were brought up with the Racist Mentality from the Old Days. There are some who want to change that but there is a very large group that doesn't want change! Why do you think they've had Segregated Proms even up to recent years???

Once you get out of the Big Cities it's pretty much like going back in time in the rest of the country!!! There's a certain order of things in Rural America and it's the Old Order that still dominates. In the South we have Holidays you don't have!

8 States Still Have Holidays Celebrating The Confederacy

Over 150 years ago, the state of Alabama took up arms against the United States in order to defend the state’s practice of enslaving black people and forcing them to work to enrich white property owners. Today, the state celebrates its four years of treason in defense of slavery with a statewide holiday.

Under Alabama law, the fourth Monday in April is “Confederate Memorial Day” — and this is actually one of two Confederate-themed holidays celebrated by the state. State law also recognizes the first Monday in January as a celebration of Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s birthday. State offices, courts, and licensing offices are all closed on Monday because of the state holiday.

Nor is Alabama alone in using today to celebrate the Confederacy. Mississippi also celebrates Confederate Memorial Day, although Mississippi state offices will only close “at the discretion of the executive head of the department or agency.” Until recently, Georgia celebrated the same holiday — in 2015, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) renamed Confederate Memorial Day with the generic term “state holiday.”

In total, eight states — Alabama, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Texas — still celebrate some sort of Confederate holiday, although the nature of the celebration (and whether state workers get the day off) varies from state to state. Texas’ holiday, which the state celebrated on January 19th, is called “Confederate Heroes Day.” Meanwhile, Virginia has long used its Confederate holiday as a counterbalance to the federal holiday honoring a fallen civil rights leader.

Shortly after federal legislation created a national holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Virginia combined that holiday with another celebration honoring Confederate Generals Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson. This “Lee-Jackson-King Day” existed until 2000, when it was split into two holidays.

Now, Virginia honors the man who died advancing the cause of racial justice on a Monday and the two men who fought to maintain slavery on the proceeding Friday.

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

Absolutely. This was my point all along and I was told that this argument is disrespectful.
To discard the huge achievement made by millions AA people in all ways of live after stopping crying and waiting with open hands for government help and starting building their live, family, and community on their own terms is disrespectful indeed. They are an example of perseverance, strength, and determination. They are what America is all about.

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is not an African American Problem!!! This is about the larger White Society that has allowed this kind of crap to continue to go on!!! If I keep burning your house down no matter where you go and what you do to try and prevent it, is that your fault??? NO YOU'RE BEING ATTACKED!!!

This is what is happening and has always happened to African Americans, Native Americans and other Minorities. They are just trying to live like every average American but they have powerful forces who are constantly doing detrimental things to AA's. Such as Police Forces that over-police Black Neighborhoods like Stop and Frisk and extract money to pay for the Cities needs like Ferguson. Predatory Lending. Longer Sentences for the same crimes. Voter Suppression Laws. etc.

Arkrud you keep thinking that AA's and those who support them have somehow not been working to try and change things. There has ALWAYS been efforts to change things for the better. Perhaps you simply aren't paying attention to what has been presented in this thread. This is also about the Poor and Middle Class, but as i've pointed out before, there are people who don't want Poor and Middle Class of all Races to come together. This has been the fear of those in power since the beginning.

This is why I posted the racist political ad above. It proves that this is a tactic that has been used since the end of the Civil War.

There have always been multiracial efforts to fight against this. This is Frederick Douglas and White Abolitionists.

Do you get it now???

I never denied anything that you said.
I interact with many AA people every day and cannot see them being any different from other folks and cannot see them being treated differently.
I guess I never lived in areas where is not like that.
Lived in Brooklyn and in NJ in various counties and all is pretty civilized out there.
I do not even pay attention to race, color, and accents at all because this is irrelevant to me.

Well MOST African Americans don't live in NYC!!! The vast Majority are living where they've always lived in the Old Slave States. It's called the Black Belt. These states have a history of mistreating AA's and the Laws are constantly being written to disadvantage AA's in every way they can get away with. Sure you can sue but they just come up with another law and you're constantly chasing and fighting which doesn't leave much time or money for people to PROGRESS!!!

This is what i've been trying to explain to you. Perhaps now you are ready to accept that this is a very difficult situation. The People in these areas are STUBBORN and were brought up with the Racist Mentality from the Old Days. There are some who want to change that but there is a very large group that doesn't want change! Why do you think they've had Segregated Proms even up to recent years???

Once you get out of the Big Cities it's pretty much like going back in time in the rest of the country!!! There's a certain order of things in Rural America and it's the Old Order that still dominates. In the South we have Holidays you don't have!

8 States Still Have Holidays Celebrating The Confederacy

Over 150 years ago, the state of Alabama took up arms against the United States in order to defend the state’s practice of enslaving black people and forcing them to work to enrich white property owners. Today, the state celebrates its four years of treason in defense of slavery with a statewide holiday.

Under Alabama law, the fourth Monday in April is “Confederate Memorial Day” — and this is actually one of two Confederate-themed holidays celebrated by the state. State law also recognizes the first Monday in January as a celebration of Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s birthday. State offices, courts, and licensing offices are all closed on Monday because of the state holiday.

Nor is Alabama alone in using today to celebrate the Confederacy. Mississippi also celebrates Confederate Memorial Day, although Mississippi state offices will only close “at the discretion of the executive head of the department or agency.” Until recently, Georgia celebrated the same holiday — in 2015, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) renamed Confederate Memorial Day with the generic term “state holiday.”

In total, eight states — Alabama, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Texas — still celebrate some sort of Confederate holiday, although the nature of the celebration (and whether state workers get the day off) varies from state to state. Texas’ holiday, which the state celebrated on January 19th, is called “Confederate Heroes Day.” Meanwhile, Virginia has long used its Confederate holiday as a counterbalance to the federal holiday honoring a fallen civil rights leader.

Shortly after federal legislation created a national holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Virginia combined that holiday with another celebration honoring Confederate Generals Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson. This “Lee-Jackson-King Day” existed until 2000, when it was split into two holidays.

Now, Virginia honors the man who died advancing the cause of racial justice on a Monday and the two men who fought to maintain slavery on the proceeding Friday.

https://thinkprogress.org/8-states-still-have-holidays-celebrating-the-confederacy-886db691da54#.xyei56s03

It is difficult to me and most new emigrants who are not leaving in the South to get into your shoes but I can relate.
I was leaving in the countries where antisemitism is the second nature of the absolute majority of the population.
It was no other way to survive and stop leaving in fear but to leave.
This what makes us refugees.
And this people who we left behind will not get better. They will find some other way to separate and abuse somebody.
Until they will self-destruct.
We can see this self-distraction happening all over the world. The ricochet.
But people never learn... so may be it is fair at the end.

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Dems are something else! They RAN from Obama in the last Mid Term Election when they should've stuck by him! They didn't listen to him or his people this election and screwed the pooch!!! They didn't use the same methods Obama's Campaign did in reaching out to White Working Class Voters or Minorities.

This Russia thing was a mess but Obama was in a tough spot! He's damned if he went hard on Russia and damned if he didn't. He's a professional and tries to do things the right way. IMO Obama is not the one to really bash over this. This is on EVERYONE including the Republicans in Congress that KNEW the Russians were interfering and blocked telling the American people cuz it benefited them!!!

i agree obama was in a tough spot. there were choices though - he took the high road trying to work with people that had no real intention of working with him. this country is showing us that the high road is not necessarily the right way to go. i think there needs to be some recognition by the dems regarding that and to not give too much credit to the american people.

a tough option would've been to expose the republican party the past 4 years but i understand why he didn't go that route. but with the benefit of hindsight, it's would've probably been the better road to take.

i'm trying to figure out why the republican party are so united and don't always take the high road when working with dems while the dems come off as a bit weak and disjointed. i have a few hypothesis...and it's just me spitballing...but it seems the republicans have 2 strong common characteristics between their government officials...they are mostly white and they are mostly christian. i think there is a built in bond there, even if it's not openly acknowledged. the dems are a bit more racially diverse with diverse religious backgrounds...combine that with historic systemic oppression for people of color and it's tougher to unite and build a cohesive attack.

now i'm not sure i believe any of that but it's just some thoughts in my head trying to understand. does anybody else have an ideas or theories?

I've tried to make it clear to people like arkrud that the Republican Party is basically the descendants of the old Dixiecrats from the original Democratic Party. The guys who have ALWAYS been organized to protect the status quo of a racist system that also protects the rich and could give a crap about the poor! They represent businesses and social conservatives. They have ties that run deep and they are VICIOUS!

These were the people against the Civil Rights movement and back in the day they had no problem resorting to violence. They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

I think this will be the last time it's effective in this country tho. It's a dying strategy and it only worked this time cuz Hillary was such a flawed candidate. The Rural strongholds are weakening as the racial demographics keep changing. This election was the last hurrah for the old order.

Nixluva--do you dislike white people? I mean listen to your own words? They used KKK Terrorism to keep power. So to me it's clear why Trump went with the Southern Strategy in this election. It's worked for the Republicans for a long time.

These comments make no sense--theyre racist.

I just now saw this post. I have no idea what you're talking about!!! My KKK reference is based in FACT and I was clearly talking about the Civil Rights Era! It's clear in the context of the sentence I wrote. Surely you're not going to try and argue with me about the Terrorist actions of the KKK?

Regarding the "Southern Strategy" just look it up for yourself! Perhaps you just don't know what that is but it's a very real tactic.

Your question about me disliking White People is ridiculous. Talking about Racism doesn't make you a racist. That's a Republican mind trick. Just so you know there is more comfort with White People in the Black community than there is comfort with Blacks in White Communities. There are more Blacks with some White ancestry than Whites with Black ancestry. I have LOTS of White relatives!

Nix. Nothing personal but almost everyone of your posts are filled with racial proclamations. If you need to scream RACE as much as you do it just seems like you may have an outstanding issue I hope not you seem Like avery decent guy. Maybe it's time to put down the race stuff

Put down the race stuff??? What do you know about it??? I know FIRST HAND that this so called "race stuff" is still a huge problem in this country and this last 8 years plus this election have exposed the truth that it's still a big problem!!!

I have children and now a grandchild so you better believe this "race stuff" is gonna be important to me! Race and class are the 2 massive issues in this country as they've always been. My talking about Systemic Racism doesn't mean I have a problem with Race!!! You and the Republicans who love to try and flip this will not silence those who see the inequities of this system.

I can tell that you haven't really read a thing I've posted. All you do is key in on the fact that I'm pointing to racial injustice, which is a proven FACT in this country since it's inception. If it's not an issue anymore I'd LOVE to see your proof of this belief. Why don't you lay out your argument for the case that this is a post racial society and an equal system!!!

People like Nix are in the golden list of KKK and other white supremacist.
They want divisive people to do their thing to aid their agenda.
I had a Zionist schoolmate who was going on and on about supremacy of Jews and was very educated and argumentative about it.
Antisemitic dudes in my school including some teaches, principal, and such loved this dude.
He was making their life so easy. Just let him talk and the job is done.
I hated the dude...

No one really cares about the Civil Rights era--in fact its an embarrassment to compare eras. You live your life you work hard you take care of your family have friends try to to the right thing and color/race means little to nothing

That's an ideal. Those are not facts.

In NC there were laws that were created in order to suppress votes from minorities. Because minorities vote a certain way for a certain party. Voting suppression so that a specific party can win an election and impose their ideals into society.

Ideals tend to differ when it comes to race which is y race will always be an issue. There are clear fact based evidence on how racist and biased the justice system is. Which also ties into voting suppression. So if race means little to nothing then y have these justice system racial biases been occurring?

Lets be factual. What are the laws that you referring to?
This is not some opinions, its written thing, so easy to examine.
If you have some examples of precedents when law used with racial bias also please give some reference.
I have no doubt that this is the case and the only way to get read of this issues is to bring attention to them.
We do not need statistical crap but specific real life cases.
As per voting - why any law obedient citizen will have a problem to bring passport, social security, drivers license, or ID to the voting place?
Why activists who care about voting right will not assist all citizens with obtaining the required documents if they do not have one and want to get it?

A federal appeals court decisively struck down North Carolina’s voter identification law on Friday, saying its provisions deliberately “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision” in an effort to depress black turnout at the polls.

These are facts. Law makers created and implemented laws that "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision". There is no defense for it, any excuse you can come up with is shot down that it was taken to court and ruled what was ruled after investigation in supreme court.

You can't claim stuff like color race has no meaning when laws created in 2011 have to be taken into supreme court in 2016 and *ruled* racist.

We all know about the dude Brock who was caught raping a girl and given a slap on the wrist in terms of sentencing. And then there is Levar Allen who was charged with child pornography for sexting his white girlfriend who sexted him first. In both cases the punishment didn't fit the crime. Brock was charged too light and Allen was charged to harsh. And that's our criminal justice system. Sympathy shown for one, and no sympathy shown for another. Since the system relies on human judgement a person can let racist/sexist views effect their judgement. Rather then everyone uniting in order to expose and weed out those who can ruin the system with racist views excuses are made.

So the law that was racist was overturned. That's great.
The judgments in court will be always dependent on the judge and jury but can always be appealed both when the sentence is to harsh or to light.
Public and press can take on it and force the process to correct itself.
So I cannot see any problem with that.
Couple of isolated cases is not an indictment to whole system.

I knew you would focus on the fact that it was overturned after 4 yrs in court. But what about the fact that it was implemented in the first place? Why were African Americans habits researched and laws put in place around their habits in the first place? Probably because guys like Arkud and Briggs would then make excuses about it. How many of these law makers lost their position for making such blatant racist laws? I can bet if it wasn't yet ruled racist in supreme court that you would be claiming how there isn't any issue with it and how African Americans should just adapt. You think randomly in 2011 this is the first time since slavery that laws were created after researching the habits of African Americans and embedded in the system?

Having to fight it with the public and press and try to force the change goes without saying and is after the fact. Having racist, racial bias would be the root of the problem. You go after the root of the problem then there is less need for people who have been done wrong to have to spend the time and energy fighting to correct it. But of course you rarely ever want to discuss that side.

Don't waste your time..He craftily dances around the point you are making and doesn't acknowledge what is said...You get sucked into the bad spelling and grammar, but he knows what's exactly what he is doing...

He just needs to get "they are all looking for government handouts" a few more times off his chest...

I never said this. This is what you said.
"government handouts" needed by people who are economically disadvantaged - mentally and physically handicapped, orphans, elderly, single moms, pure.
This has nothing to do with race criteria.
We agreed that AA were enslaved, displaced, segregated, and silenced by terror.
We agreed that racism exist, that some laws are still have racist smell and such.
My question stays unanswered.
What is you plan of actions to improve race relations in America you consider (and rightfully so) unacceptable?
For now I see that you want anyone who is looking for dialog to shut up and stop bringing it up, and let you vent you frustration to the wind.
Did I get it right?

This is not an African American Problem!!! This is about the larger White Society that has allowed this kind of crap to continue to go on!!! If I keep burning your house down no matter where you go and what you do to try and prevent it, is that your fault??? NO YOU'RE BEING ATTACKED!!!

This is what is happening and has always happened to African Americans, Native Americans and other Minorities. They are just trying to live like every average American but they have powerful forces who are constantly doing detrimental things to AA's. Such as Police Forces that over-police Black Neighborhoods like Stop and Frisk and extract money to pay for the Cities needs like Ferguson. Predatory Lending. Longer Sentences for the same crimes. Voter Suppression Laws. etc.

Arkrud you keep thinking that AA's and those who support them have somehow not been working to try and change things. There has ALWAYS been efforts to change things for the better. Perhaps you simply aren't paying attention to what has been presented in this thread. This is also about the Poor and Middle Class, but as i've pointed out before, there are people who don't want Poor and Middle Class of all Races to come together. This has been the fear of those in power since the beginning.

This is why I posted the racist political ad above. It proves that this is a tactic that has been used since the end of the Civil War.

There have always been multiracial efforts to fight against this. This is Frederick Douglas and White Abolitionists.

Do you get it now???

I never denied anything that you said.
I interact with many AA people every day and cannot see them being any different from other folks and cannot see them being treated differently.
I guess I never lived in areas where is not like that.
Lived in Brooklyn and in NJ in various counties and all is pretty civilized out there.
I do not even pay attention to race, color, and accents at all because this is irrelevant to me.

Well MOST African Americans don't live in NYC!!! The vast Majority are living where they've always lived in the Old Slave States. It's called the Black Belt. These states have a history of mistreating AA's and the Laws are constantly being written to disadvantage AA's in every way they can get away with. Sure you can sue but they just come up with another law and you're constantly chasing and fighting which doesn't leave much time or money for people to PROGRESS!!!

This is what i've been trying to explain to you. Perhaps now you are ready to accept that this is a very difficult situation. The People in these areas are STUBBORN and were brought up with the Racist Mentality from the Old Days. There are some who want to change that but there is a very large group that doesn't want change! Why do you think they've had Segregated Proms even up to recent years???

Once you get out of the Big Cities it's pretty much like going back in time in the rest of the country!!! There's a certain order of things in Rural America and it's the Old Order that still dominates. In the South we have Holidays you don't have!

8 States Still Have Holidays Celebrating The Confederacy

Over 150 years ago, the state of Alabama took up arms against the United States in order to defend the state’s practice of enslaving black people and forcing them to work to enrich white property owners. Today, the state celebrates its four years of treason in defense of slavery with a statewide holiday.

Under Alabama law, the fourth Monday in April is “Confederate Memorial Day” — and this is actually one of two Confederate-themed holidays celebrated by the state. State law also recognizes the first Monday in January as a celebration of Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s birthday. State offices, courts, and licensing offices are all closed on Monday because of the state holiday.

Nor is Alabama alone in using today to celebrate the Confederacy. Mississippi also celebrates Confederate Memorial Day, although Mississippi state offices will only close “at the discretion of the executive head of the department or agency.” Until recently, Georgia celebrated the same holiday — in 2015, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) renamed Confederate Memorial Day with the generic term “state holiday.”

In total, eight states — Alabama, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Texas — still celebrate some sort of Confederate holiday, although the nature of the celebration (and whether state workers get the day off) varies from state to state. Texas’ holiday, which the state celebrated on January 19th, is called “Confederate Heroes Day.” Meanwhile, Virginia has long used its Confederate holiday as a counterbalance to the federal holiday honoring a fallen civil rights leader.

Shortly after federal legislation created a national holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Virginia combined that holiday with another celebration honoring Confederate Generals Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson. This “Lee-Jackson-King Day” existed until 2000, when it was split into two holidays.

Now, Virginia honors the man who died advancing the cause of racial justice on a Monday and the two men who fought to maintain slavery on the proceeding Friday.

https://thinkprogress.org/8-states-still-have-holidays-celebrating-the-confederacy-886db691da54#.xyei56s03

It is difficult to me and most new emigrants who are not leaving in the South to get into your shoes but I can relate.
I was leaving in the countries where antisemitism is the second nature of the absolute majority of the population.
It was no other way to survive and stop leaving in fear but to leave.
This what makes us refugees.
And this people who we left behind will not get better. They will find some other way to separate and abuse somebody.
Until they will self-destruct.
We can see this self-distraction happening all over the world. The ricochet.
But people never learn... so may be it is fair at the end.

It used to be that European Immigrants were mistreated in America by Native Born White Americans. Over time they were able to blend into the larger White Society. That doesn't work for Non White people here. I can't just blend in.

Originally there were White Indentured Servants in America but they were not slaves for life. Then they decided that the easier path was to make a law that Negro Servants should be Slaves for life. Skin color made an easy way to establish the order of class in American society.

AFRICANS ARRIVE IN VIRGINIA, 1619

The social status of the first Africans in Jamestown was confusing, and perhaps deliberately ambiguous. Records from 1623 and 1624 list the black inhabitants of the colony as servants, not slaves. In these same records, however, white indentured servants are listed along with the year in which they were to attain freedom; no such year accompanies the names of black servants. Freedom was the birthright of William Tucker, the first African born in the colonies. Yet court records show that at least one African had been declared a slave by 1640, the year that slavery was officially instituted in Jamestown. After the legalization of slavery by the Virginia colony, the African population began to rise slowly and steadily. The number of blacks increased from 23 in 1625 to approximately three hundred in 1650.

gunsnewing wrote:Any updates on the recounts?

Why don't you use your energy on keeping track of the Trump Administration he's building!!! Billionaires, Millionaires and Anti Government Crackpots. Flynn met with a far right Party from Austria that was started by a Nazi. His pick for Ambassador to Israel is a far right guy that might start another War in the Middle East. Trump's kids are trying to make money off his Presidency. SMDH

Trump tax plan's impact on housing
Wednesday, 30 Nov 2016 | 4:57 PM ET | 02:25

For more than a century, homeownership has come with a small bonus: The mortgage interest deduction.

It allows borrowers to deduct the interest paid on their home loans from their income taxes. Real estate agents, homebuilders and mortgage lenders have long used it as a selling point. Every so often it comes up in debate, but it is so popular that lawmakers are more than a little bit afraid to touch it. The future Trump administration apparently is not.

"We'll cap the mortgage interest, but we'll allow some deductibility," said Steve Mnuchin on CNBC Wednesday after confirming that has been asked by President-elect Donald Trump to head the Treasury Department.
The Internal Revenue Service headquarters in Washington.
Andrew Harrer | Bloomberg | Getty Images
The Internal Revenue Service headquarters in Washington.

The mortgage interest deduction is already capped at loans up to $1 million if you're married and filing jointly, and at $500,000 if you file separately. That said, the median price of a home in the United States is just more than $200,000, so not a lot of people make it to that cap. The vast majority of those who do benefit earn more than $100,000 a year and are not the most cost-burdened homeowners.

The deduction is very popular, but it benefits far fewer taxpayers than one might think. The current homeownership rate is around 62 percent, but of those homeowners, one-third do not have a mortgage. They own their homes outright, so the deduction would not apply to them.

Some homeowners, mainly middle- and lower-income families either don't pay federal income taxes or don't itemize, so the deduction wouldn't apply to them either. Only about 40 million (or 22.5 percent) of the 173 million households in the U.S. benefit from the mortgage interest deduction, according to the Tax Policy Center.

For those who do itemize, here's how the math works: Let's say you have a $500,000 30-year-fixed mortgage at 4.5 percent, and you're in the 33 percent tax bracket. In the first year of your loan, the deduction saves you just more than $10,000 in taxes.

If the Trump administration caps deductions at even $100,000, as Mnuchin suggested, that would not hit most borrowers because on that $500,000 (which is more than most loans in general) the total annual interest payment was about $23,000. Granted, homeowners may have other deductions, medical expenses, charitable, religious or otherwise, but most would not make it to $100,000 even with the mortgage.

Despite the small number of borrowers a cap would affect, real estate industry leaders oppose any changes, especially in an environment where they are trying to convince young millennials that a home is a good investment.

Millennials lived through the recession and the housing crash and saw what the crisis did to their parents' savings. First-time buyers have been the missing link in the housing recovery, already cash strapped by low wages and high levels of student debt.

"We would strongly oppose any attempt to limit or eliminate the mortgage interest deduction. Realtors know that the MID is an important benefit not just for the millions of current homeowners who depend on it, but also for renters looking to make the transition into homeownership," said William E. Brown, president of the National Association of Realtors.

"We're living in a time of tight credit and low inventory, with homeownership rates hovering around a 50-year low. Doing anything that would make it harder for buyers to enter the market is a fundamental step in the wrong direction."

Mortgage interest rates have been rising dramatically since the election in November, and that has already slowed demand among some homebuyers. Home prices also just crossed over to record highs in September, according to the S&P CoreLogic Case-Shiller Home Price Index.

Affordability is weakening, and while some claim that job and income growth will make up for it in 2017, the prospect of losing the deduction, meaningful or not, is another emotional barrier to entry for potential homebuyers on the edge of ownership.

During a Monday appearance on NPR, Trump adviser Newt Gingrich argued that Congress should consider changing ethics laws so President-elect Donald Trump could freely mix his administration and his business interests.

“We’ve never seen this kind of wealth in the White House, and so traditional rules don’t work,” Gingrich said during a panel discussion on “The Diane Rehm Show.” “We’re going to have to think up a whole new approach.”

The “new approach” Gingrich has in mind also involves Trump liberally using his pardon powers to extract his advisers — including, at least during the presidential transition, three of his adult children — from whatever legal troubles they might find themselves in.

“In the case of the president, he has a broad ability to organize the White House the way he wants to. He also has, frankly, the power of the pardon,” Gingrich said, in comments first covered by Politico. “It’s a totally open power. He could simply say, ‘Look, I want them to be my advisers. I pardon them if anyone finds them to have behaved against the rules. Period.’ Technically, under the Constitution, he has that level of authority.”

Gingrich suggested Congress should consider changing ethics laws so Trump can freely intermingle his business interests and duties as president. He also floated the idea of a Trump-created “panel” led by former government officials that can help monitor his conflicts of interest.

“Congress can try to figure out how to do this,” he said. “I’ve suggested that people who are widely respected, like Attorney General [Michael] Mukasey, might — that the president-elect might want to form a panel who are sort of a review group, if that makes sense, and that the panel would monitor regularly what was going on and would offer warnings if they get too close to the edge.”

Trump reportedly plans to maintain ownership of his international business while president, though he hasn’t yet publicly disclosed any of the specifics. In a tweet published December 12, he said his adult sons, Donald Jr. and Eric, will manage the Trump Organization.

Donald Jr. and Eric later sat at the head of the table during their father’s meeting with the nation’s tech elite at Trump Tower two days later. That came weeks after Trump’s daughter Ivanka was photographed participating in her father’s first meeting with a head of state, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

Trump’s message in those cases was clear — deal with my children, and you deal with people who have my ear. The interests of the Trump Organization are the interests of the Trump administration, regardless of whether or not Donald Jr. and Eric have official public roles.
Trump also hasn’t indicated any willingness to address the constitutional issue posed by his continued ownership of the Trump International hotel in Washington, D.C. Not divesting means Trump will be accepting money from foreign governments and hence violating the Constitution on his first day in office.

Gingrich acknowledged that Trump’s business entanglements are “a very real problem.” But he made a case that voters knew what they were getting and endorsed a businessman being in the White House during the election.

“I think there was a general sense that the president had the ability, that this was going to be a billionaire presidency,” he said. “I don’t think anyone who voted for him was not aware that he was a very, very successful businessman.”

But other guests who appeared with Gingrich on Rehm’s show were more troubled by Gingrich floating the idea of Trump pardoning his way out of trouble.

Richard Painter — a former George W. Bush White House ethics lawyer who told us last month he thought the Electoral College should reject Trump unless he sells his hotel, because continued ownership of it would violate the Constitution’s Emoluments Clause — disagreed with Gingrich’s interpretation of the president’s constitutional powers.

“If the pardon power allows that, the pardon power allows the president to become a dictator, and even Richard Nixon had the decency to wait for his successor to hand out the pardon that he received for his illegal conduct,” Painter said. “We’re going down a very, very treacherous path if we go with what Speaker Gingrich is saying, what he is suggesting.”

https://thinkprogress.org/gingrich-trump-ethics-laws-conflicts-of-interest-kleoptocracy-17d500c1d6c6#.r6283n120