tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

Getting excited about the team experiencing the most success in a decade and a half should be ok. How long are fans supposed to wait? Should it be 55 games or more and Eastern conference champions? Is it finals or no happiness? Not sure what the benchmark is for when it is ok to enjoy a team winning. Also, that great run in the 90's started with the team making the second round under Riley. I believe Ew was 28 that season.

is melo a franchise player? if yes then nothing less than a finals appearance or a strong ecf appearance will do.

if no then many battered-wife syndrome fans will be content with this also-ran team and dolan's folly and cynicism and contempt for the fan base will have been vindicated.

maybe this is the year fans recognize they are being taken advantage of.

I think that is a ridiculous statement. There are likely more franchise calibure talent that HAVEN'T been to the ECF than have been. It not just about talent, but coaching, management....so many things go into winning and talent it just one. We could have 2frnachise players on the squad but, if the other elements do come into play, it doesn't matter.

like who?

I think the problem is, there are more guys who are labeled franchise players than there actually are.... we have one of them... maybe two....

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

Getting excited about the team experiencing the most success in a decade and a half should be ok. How long are fans supposed to wait? Should it be 55 games or more and Eastern conference champions? Is it finals or no happiness? Not sure what the benchmark is for when it is ok to enjoy a team winning. Also, that great run in the 90's started with the team making the second round under Riley. I believe Ew was 28 that season.

is melo a franchise player? if yes then nothing less than a finals appearance or a strong ecf appearance will do.

if no then many battered-wife syndrome fans will be content with this also-ran team and dolan's folly and cynicism and contempt for the fan base will have been vindicated.

maybe this is the year fans recognize they are being taken advantage of.

I think that is a ridiculous statement. There are likely more franchise calibure talent that HAVEN'T been to the ECF than have been. It not just about talent, but coaching, management....so many things go into winning and talent it just one. We could have 2frnachise players on the squad but, if the other elements do come into play, it doesn't matter.

like who?

I think the problem is, there are more guys who are labeled franchise players than there actually are.... we have one of them... maybe two....

That's a good question. Maybe Chris Paul? But his seasons in LA *have* been considered team failures. So that proves DK's point of at least a finals or perhaps conference finals being necessary if you're a win-now team with an alleged franchise player.

Paul hasn't been out of the second round in his career. Durante hasn't without two other franchise guys running with him. Howard couldn't make it out of the first round this year. Aside from LBJ when he was withe cavs I can't think of a star player that took his team deep into the playoffs without another star on the team.

Besides the team oriented Pistons, only Dirk's Mavericks come to mind.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

Getting excited about the team experiencing the most success in a decade and a half should be ok. How long are fans supposed to wait? Should it be 55 games or more and Eastern conference champions? Is it finals or no happiness? Not sure what the benchmark is for when it is ok to enjoy a team winning. Also, that great run in the 90's started with the team making the second round under Riley. I believe Ew was 28 that season.

is melo a franchise player? if yes then nothing less than a finals appearance or a strong ecf appearance will do.

if no then many battered-wife syndrome fans will be content with this also-ran team and dolan's folly and cynicism and contempt for the fan base will have been vindicated.

maybe this is the year fans recognize they are being taken advantage of.

I think that is a ridiculous statement. There are likely more franchise calibure talent that HAVEN'T been to the ECF than have been. It not just about talent, but coaching, management....so many things go into winning and talent it just one. We could have 2frnachise players on the squad but, if the other elements do come into play, it doesn't matter.

like who?

I think the problem is, there are more guys who are labeled franchise players than there actually are.... we have one of them... maybe two....

That's a good question. Maybe Chris Paul? But his seasons in LA *have* been considered team failures. So that proves DK's point of at least a finals or perhaps conference finals being necessary if you're a win-now team with an alleged franchise player.

Paul hasn't been out of the second round in his career. Durante hasn't without two other franchise guys running with him. Howard couldn't make it out of the first round this year. Aside from LBJ when he was withe cavs I can't think of a star player that took his team deep into the playoffs without another star on the team.

tkf wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Melo loves volume shooting PFs who struggle in all other aspects of the game

whats the point of this comment?

you can say the same thing about this thread to be honest...

Really tkf?

It appears you are still contributing to this pointless thread 41 pages later.

Party on.

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

Getting excited about the team experiencing the most success in a decade and a half should be ok. How long are fans supposed to wait? Should it be 55 games or more and Eastern conference champions? Is it finals or no happiness? Not sure what the benchmark is for when it is ok to enjoy a team winning. Also, that great run in the 90's started with the team making the second round under Riley. I believe Ew was 28 that season.

is melo a franchise player? if yes then nothing less than a finals appearance or a strong ecf appearance will do.

if no then many battered-wife syndrome fans will be content with this also-ran team and dolan's folly and cynicism and contempt for the fan base will have been vindicated.

maybe this is the year fans recognize they are being taken advantage of.

I think that is a ridiculous statement. There are likely more franchise calibure talent that HAVEN'T been to the ECF than have been. It not just about talent, but coaching, management....so many things go into winning and talent it just one. We could have 2frnachise players on the squad but, if the other elements do come into play, it doesn't matter.

like who?

I think the problem is, there are more guys who are labeled franchise players than there actually are.... we have one of them... maybe two....

That's a good question. Maybe Chris Paul? But his seasons in LA *have* been considered team failures. So that proves DK's point of at least a finals or perhaps conference finals being necessary if you're a win-now team with an alleged franchise player.

yes. just because the player will command a maximum contract because of what the market will bear does not automatically elevate that player to franchise player status. a "businessman" like dolan-- who is the poster boy for nepotism-- doesn't differentiate because he cynically understands that it isn't about bang for the buck in terms of winning it's bang for the buck in terms of knowing he can get undiscerning fans to follow the team because anthony is on it.

i still have the following ridiculous statement and it's brethren echoing in the vast cavern that is the inside of my head: "a player like melo becomes available you make that trade every day of the week and twice on sundays."

the reason why you never make that trade is because you know that melo's ceiling as the so-called franchise player is maybe the ecf... but no further.

in which case: why do you make the trade? oh yeah-- to line dolan's pockets with a 50% ticket hike and put an "entertaining product" out on the floor.

this will be the 3rd year that i can't wait for melo and his "supporting cast" to defy expectations and shut the naysayers up!

which is why I said, the trade has to be one of the worst in knicks history... you pretty much gut your team knowing the upside is no more, and at best ECF, at very best.... look at the pacers.. with no franchise player( although George may potentially be one) made it to game 7 of the ECF.. so what does this teach you? what should this tell dolan? honestly, I don't think he even paid attention....

i still have the following ridiculous statement and it's brethren echoing in the vast cavern that is the inside of my head: "a player like melo becomes available you make that trade every day of the week and twice on sundays."

I literally vomit in my mouth when I used to hear that ridiculous comment made, over and over again, by fans and dumb azz, azz kissing former basketball player/ analyst......

right and for me the cutoff point between mediocrity and being a top tier team is a strong showing in the conference finals. true contenders make the conference finals and make it a series.

by that measure there were 3 top teams and then everyone else: spurs, heat, pacers

then the grizzlies, whose dismantling by the spurs is more about the spurs and popovich than the grizzlies.

then warriors, okc, knicks

the common denominator for those top 3 is teamwork which leads to versatility and resilience, and of course defense. and of course there is the coaching and coachability.

the other 4 teams have considerable holes in this regard. it will be fascinating to see what these 4 teams have done to address these issues. we know what the knicks have done.

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

Getting excited about the team experiencing the most success in a decade and a half should be ok. How long are fans supposed to wait? Should it be 55 games or more and Eastern conference champions? Is it finals or no happiness? Not sure what the benchmark is for when it is ok to enjoy a team winning. Also, that great run in the 90's started with the team making the second round under Riley. I believe Ew was 28 that season.

is melo a franchise player? if yes then nothing less than a finals appearance or a strong ecf appearance will do.

if no then many battered-wife syndrome fans will be content with this also-ran team and dolan's folly and cynicism and contempt for the fan base will have been vindicated.

maybe this is the year fans recognize they are being taken advantage of.

I think that is a ridiculous statement. There are likely more franchise calibure talent that HAVEN'T been to the ECF than have been. It not just about talent, but coaching, management....so many things go into winning and talent it just one. We could have 2frnachise players on the squad but, if the other elements do come into play, it doesn't matter.

like who?

I think the problem is, there are more guys who are labeled franchise players than there actually are.... we have one of them... maybe two....

That's a good question. Maybe Chris Paul? But his seasons in LA *have* been considered team failures. So that proves DK's point of at least a finals or perhaps conference finals being necessary if you're a win-now team with an alleged franchise player.

yes. just because the player will command a maximum contract because of what the market will bear does not automatically elevate that player to franchise player status. a "businessman" like dolan-- who is the poster boy for nepotism-- doesn't differentiate because he cynically understands that it isn't about bang for the buck in terms of winning it's bang for the buck in terms of knowing he can get undiscerning fans to follow the team because anthony is on it.

i still have the following ridiculous statement and it's brethren echoing in the vast cavern that is the inside of my head: "a player like melo becomes available you make that trade every day of the week and twice on sundays."

the reason why you never make that trade is because you know that melo's ceiling as the so-called franchise player is maybe the ecf... but no further.

in which case: why do you make the trade? oh yeah-- to line dolan's pockets with a 50% ticket hike and put an "entertaining product" out on the floor.

this will be the 3rd year that i can't wait for melo and his "supporting cast" to defy expectations and shut the naysayers up!

which is why I said, the trade has to be one of the worst in knicks history... you pretty much gut your team knowing the upside is no more, and at best ECF, at very best.... look at the pacers.. with no franchise player( although George may potentially be one) made it to game 7 of the ECF.. so what does this teach you? what should this tell dolan? honestly, I don't think he even paid attention....

i still have the following ridiculous statement and it's brethren echoing in the vast cavern that is the inside of my head: "a player like melo becomes available you make that trade every day of the week and twice on sundays."

I literally vomit in my mouth when I used to hear that ridiculous comment made, over and over again, by fans and dumb azz, azz kissing former basketball player/ analyst......

right and for me the cutoff point between mediocrity and being a top tier team is a strong showing in the conference finals. true contenders make the conference finals and make it a series.

by that measure there were 3 top teams and then everyone else: spurs, heat, pacers

then the grizzlies, whose dismantling by the spurs is more about the spurs and popovich than the grizzlies.

then warriors, okc, knicks

the common denominator for those top 3 is teamwork which leads to versatility and resilience, and of course defense. and of course there is the coaching and coachability.

the other 4 teams have considerable holes in this regard. it will be fascinating to see what these 4 teams have done to address these issues. we know what the knicks have done.

good point... we see that the warriors got iggy, to address some needs, and then you have to count in teams that will be back on the scene strong.. teams like the bulls who will finally have rose back, and honestly played well without him... The nets may be stronger as well.. I think the grizzlies will still be a strong team as well.

DurzoBlint wrote:how can you make a strong showing and make it to the finals when your team is decimated by injuries. People act like we had a full, strong, healthy team. Like Melo had Kobe and Kyrie Irving running besides him and still couldn't win. Anyone who though this team was a championship caliber team was drinking whatever Kidd was drinking when he was all laid out in the street.

how many teams have kobe and kyrie on it? carmelo said this was the best team he has played with.. goes to show, the guy is an idiot.. plain and simple... I am just blown away that you guys don't see we have the biggest idiot in the NBA on our team.. a one dimensional doof ball... if we had kyrie and kobe on this team, it would make carmelo irrelevant... as he plays one way...those guys won't be running besides carmelo, they would be running ahead and deservedly so as they both are superior players.. yes kyrie is a superior TALENT!!!! even at this point..

DurzoBlint wrote:how can you make a strong showing and make it to the finals when your team is decimated by injuries. People act like we had a full, strong, healthy team. Like Melo had Kobe and Kyrie Irving running besides him and still couldn't win. Anyone who though this team was a championship caliber team was drinking whatever Kidd was drinking when he was all laid out in the street.

i am reluctant to use injury as an excuse. but if you want to compare which teams stood the most to lose based on who was injured how would you rank them from most devastating to least?

here's my list just off the top of my head:

okc westbrook
celtics rondo
bulls rose
nuggets gallinari
pacers granger
knicks
lakers don't count for me-- dysfunctional aberration