blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:BLKEXEC, I don't have you pegged as Lazy! LOL........In fact perhaps just two or three of the board has reactions with little thought.

I suppose we have similar but you have Obi out the door and I have IQ. Yours is reasonable. I don't see Sims as a 4. iHart has range on offense, good high post passing, and perhaps the footspead to defend a stretch 4. Perhaps a simple switch on your lineup works. I'd think we trade for a back up 4 before we play Simms there.

It will be curious to see what Drose minutes are regardless of a DM trade. I like the dude and actually have no issues trading him for a late 1st to a contender and perhaps he can get a ring before he retires.

Good call on Sims.

My thinking is Sims (on defense) has the footspeed to guard multiple positions. You can see that on his defensive switching when guarding around the 3 pt line. So he has the footspeed. But I would only play him at 4 with Hart at 5. Since Hart has more of an offensive game and outside shooting, they will not take up the same space on the floor. I can also see Hart playing a little 4 as well, with a Twin Towers affect.

But agree, we need to add a backup 4, if we are trading Obi. Melo? Seems like a perfect fit on this roster, if we need backup help at PF.

If Obi traded, I can totally see Knicks signing Melo

martin wrote:Alan's 2 cents

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1562888123457015809

Eh, I don't buy that other teams that were rebuffed but the Nets are going to significantly change the Spida trade market. They were rebuffed for a reason. The teams that do pose a threat don't really make sense as a Spida destination. That said, I'm cool if the Knicks walk away. Hahn thinks 5 pics, four unprotected is what it will take. That's just too much for a player who doesn't provide the cleanest fit for the current roster. I've said this before, but I think the squad should hold tight and 2ait for the trade markets to open up.

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1563200530205138944

The prolonged nature of this has completely taken any excitement out of the prospect of the trade happening- which is a good thing, get the impression there is next to zero pressure from Knicks fans to get it done at this point, get the impression we can take it or leave it and most of us are bored/fed up reading words like "Trader Danny", "leverage" and "haul"- these words must be banned from the board after this reaches whatever conclusion.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:Alan's 2 cents

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NBA_NewYork/status/1562888123457015809

Eh, I don't buy that other teams that were rebuffed but the Nets are going to significantly change the Spida trade market. They were rebuffed for a reason. The teams that do pose a threat don't really make sense as a Spida destination. That said, I'm cool if the Knicks walk away. Hahn thinks 5 pics, four unprotected is what it will take. That's just too much for a player who doesn't provide the cleanest fit for the current roster. I've said this before, but I think the squad should hold tight and 2ait for the trade markets to open up.

Agree - I think a deal that may make sense (to me at least) is three way with the Nets - where Fournier goes to the Nets, and Simmons goes to Utah, and Mitchell to the Knicks - with the filler bits being tossed about as needed to make things fair and work numbers wise.

If I am the Nets, I do that deal to get KD & Kyrie a shooter - maybe they work out their differences if they start winning.

I don't know that I see Utah wanting Simmons - but I think (if he can pass a physical), he get's me to the cap floor, and perhaps rehabs his value if he plays - and then I can trade him deadline for more youth and picks.

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:Save the 10 min. What Hahn said was "Fuck you Danny!"......
Not really.
He did a good breakdown. Super important is fan and subsequent media pressure. That tanked/sucked it up for two years in our back court to get here with Brunson, a more developed IQ, Grimes, and RJ gives us options. We collected picks also. We could have used that capital but team has a vision of sorts.
Media and fans are not in on this. If fans have "Trade fatigue" that's because your lapping up the media stuff and react. The longer it goes on the better I feel about not over paying. Sure we'll be uncomfortable. Some of you love Obi and hate randle and want what you want, others see IQ as a future star and would not be happy to see him go. Others like me see RJ as a Jimmy Butler type who will still develop into his own brand of player.

Jimmy Butler is a good comp for RJ. I originally thought he was be a better shooting version and lesser defensive version of Jimmy, but still close as far as career ceiling.

I actually don't hate Randle, I hate management for putting Obi and Thibs in this situation. Randle is a beast and he can carry a team, he's already proved that. But still think he's better as the #2 or #1b on this team. But having Obi, Randle and Thibs on the same team next season doesn't work for me. And I believe that feeling is mutual. It creates a glut in the rotation and makes the relationship between Obi and Randle difficult. Moving on from Randle is a personal preference and quick fix, as far as chemistry and team style of play. I believe this team is moving from a half court team (Randle Style) to an up and down team (Obi Style).

I'm not confident in Randle taking 3 or 4 back seats (D.Mith, RJ, Brunson), when he struggled to take 1 back seat last year (RJ). Randle didn't seem engaged and spent more time focusing on the refs and allowing his man to run free or with the thumbs down gesture to the fans. RJ meanwhile was a solid professional during that time and simply got better and better each year. He's primed to have a solid year.

What Obi brings is something Randle cannot. Thats speed and easy transition buckets (with momentum shifting dunks), without dribbling the air out the ball. Now that we have Brunson and RJ, who will dominate the ball (and D.Mitch), we need to compliment them with players that fit, who are efficient scorers that do not have to over dribble to score (Grimes and Obi). And I'm sorry but Randle hasn't shown us he can play off the ball, while RJ dominated the ball. How do you think Randle will play as the 4th option, if he couldn't handle the 2nd option?

Simmons on Utah makes little sense given his contract and age. might as well keep DM. Nets have Joe harris and seth curry for shooter. EF is redundant if that his only purpose.
There is nothing we can think of or worry that the knicks themselves have not addressed or thought thru regarding Randle. They have film, advance breakdowns and all kinds of things that tells them far more than we can.

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:Save the 10 min. What Hahn said was "Fuck you Danny!"......
Not really.
He did a good breakdown. Super important is fan and subsequent media pressure. That tanked/sucked it up for two years in our back court to get here with Brunson, a more developed IQ, Grimes, and RJ gives us options. We collected picks also. We could have used that capital but team has a vision of sorts.
Media and fans are not in on this. If fans have "Trade fatigue" that's because your lapping up the media stuff and react. The longer it goes on the better I feel about not over paying. Sure we'll be uncomfortable. Some of you love Obi and hate randle and want what you want, others see IQ as a future star and would not be happy to see him go. Others like me see RJ as a Jimmy Butler type who will still develop into his own brand of player.

Jimmy Butler is a good comp for RJ. I originally thought he was be a better shooting version and lesser defensive version of Jimmy, but still close as far as career ceiling.

I actually don't hate Randle, I hate management for putting Obi and Thibs in this situation. Randle is a beast and he can carry a team, he's already proved that. But still think he's better as the #2 or #1b on this team. But having Obi, Randle and Thibs on the same team next season doesn't work for me. And I believe that feeling is mutual. It creates a glut in the rotation and makes the relationship between Obi and Randle difficult. Moving on from Randle is a personal preference and quick fix, as far as chemistry and team style of play. I believe this team is moving from a half court team (Randle Style) to an up and down team (Obi Style).

I'm not confident in Randle taking 3 or 4 back seats (D.Mith, RJ, Brunson), when he struggled to take 1 back seat last year (RJ). Randle didn't seem engaged and spent more time focusing on the refs and allowing his man to run free or with the thumbs down gesture to the fans. RJ meanwhile was a solid professional during that time and simply got better and better each year. He's primed to have a solid year.

What Obi brings is something Randle cannot. Thats speed and easy transition buckets (with momentum shifting dunks), without dribbling the air out the ball. Now that we have Brunson and RJ, who will dominate the ball (and D.Mitch), we need to compliment them with players that fit, who are efficient scorers that do not have to over dribble to score (Grimes and Obi). And I'm sorry but Randle hasn't shown us he can play off the ball, while RJ dominated the ball. How do you think Randle will play as the 4th option, if he couldn't handle the 2nd option?

Obi in crunch time is not that free flowing fun player we enjoy. His history is as a slow adaptor and given that, and how covid hit rookies to be that year it might have hurt him more than others. By that, March shutdown and summer lockdown. Draft was 2-3 weeks before camp that year. Weird stuff. I'm not negative on him at all.

Simmons on Utah makes little sense given his contract and age. might as well keep DM. Nets have Joe harris and seth curry for shooter. EF is redundant if that his only purpose.
There is nothing we can think of or worry that the knicks themselves have not addressed or thought thru regarding Randle. They have film, advance breakdowns and all kinds of things that tells them far more than we can.

I get it and understand they know more or SHOULD know more. But what fun is that? The fun part is to play GM. Thats what fans do and why forums like this is so fun and growing fast. Also, some of the people working for GM's go through or sign up to forums like this to get different ideas and perspectives. I don't remember where I read this, but it was in some article I read some time ago.

But GM's and the FO are humans and not robots, regardless how much film they watch. And they make mistakes. And clearly drafting Obi then giving Randle a huge contract extension was a calculated mistake. Adding Kemba (eventhough fans who supposedly doesn't know any better than the professional GMs) was another mistake, which is why we had to add a pick to get rid of certain players. So I don't put all my faith into people or humans who haven't shown to be perfect. Plus it takes the fun out of it. Otherwise this is how these discussions will go:

"Thibs is a pro and he's been a coach before some of these fans were born. Thibs knows talent and knows what to do better than any fan, they see these guys in practice all the time." yes thats very true and also very boring. Theres no challenge in saying he's a pro and he knows best.

VS

"Thibs needs to play X....Doesn't Thibs see that Deuce is a lockdown defender? Why add Brunson, if we already have IQ, Rose, Deuce and Grimes who used to be a PG."

Now thats fun. You should try it sometime. We all know they watch these guys all the time and have film from every angle on these guys. And they still made mistakes that fans called them out on. The Obi situation is something they could've avoided, if they listened to fans. We needed a PG, we had a PF. So we pass on a PG and draft a PF.

Maybe it's only me, but I challenge professionals all the time. I challenge my teachers all the time. I might be wrong most of the time, but its that one time where the teacher says, "you know what, thats a good idea".

Let these fans play GM....Play coach...Play owner. You should try it!

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1563200530205138944

The prolonged nature of this has completely taken any excitement out of the prospect of the trade happening- which is a good thing, get the impression there is next to zero pressure from Knicks fans to get it done at this point, get the impression we can take it or leave it and most of us are bored/fed up reading words like "Trader Danny", "leverage" and "haul"- these words must be banned from the board after this reaches whatever conclusion.

Also, don’t teams tend to say they’ve withdrawn interest once they’ve caught wind that the team has essentially made a deal with another team (or are soon going to?)

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/alanhahn/status/1563214802167934978

Seems like Ainge’s insistence on ‘winning’ trades has made him a lot of enemies among opposing GMs- seems like quite a few teams are helping out the knicks to screw Ainge (one of the heat insiders on a Miami board said a while ago even they were giving some insider info to the Knicks to thwart Ainge’s PR shenanigans).