knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

Getting excited about the team experiencing the most success in a decade and a half should be ok. How long are fans supposed to wait? Should it be 55 games or more and Eastern conference champions? Is it finals or no happiness? Not sure what the benchmark is for when it is ok to enjoy a team winning. Also, that great run in the 90's started with the team making the second round under Riley. I believe Ew was 28 that season.

is melo a franchise player? if yes then nothing less than a finals appearance or a strong ecf appearance will do.

if no then many battered-wife syndrome fans will be content with this also-ran team and dolan's folly and cynicism and contempt for the fan base will have been vindicated.

maybe this is the year fans recognize they are being taken advantage of.

misterearl wrote:Nothing Else Will Do

dk7th wrote:
is melo a franchise player? if yes then nothing less than a finals appearance or a strong ecf appearance will do.

if no then many battered-wife syndrome fans will be content with this also-ran team and dolan's folly and cynicism and contempt for the fan base will have been vindicated.

maybe this is the year fans recognize they are being taken advantage of.

dk7th - you ever consider than any of the "many battered-wife syndrome fans" could simply switch the channel?

Any fan who has the epiphany moment that they have been forced to watch NY Knicks basketball against their will, can always jump to the Brooklyn Nèts.

Taken advantage of is a tad bit dramatic, yes?

the essential trait of battered-wife fans is that they can't turn away because they keep believing the batterer will change his ways and treat her with respect. add a sprinkle of "wanting to be entertained" and you have what is apparently a typical dolan-era knick fan.

so your comment about simply switching is nonsensical because the brainwashed do not live in the real world and see things for what they are.

some fans-- the ones you don't think are such-- don't need epiphanies and the reason is they have seen the future from the outset. and if they do continue to watch it is because the analogy that fits is "rubbernecking," not "battered wife." a rubbernecker is someone who slows down his vehicle to look with morbid fascination at a roadside wreck.

just remember that the reason why you are watching is not the same reason others watch. and you bet i am going to pay more attention to the other new york team this coming season. do you have a problem with that?

dk7th wrote:

misterearl wrote:Nothing Else Will Do

dk7th wrote:
is melo a franchise player? if yes then nothing less than a finals appearance or a strong ecf appearance will do.

if no then many battered-wife syndrome fans will be content with this also-ran team and dolan's folly and cynicism and contempt for the fan base will have been vindicated.

maybe this is the year fans recognize they are being taken advantage of.

dk7th - you ever consider than any of the "many battered-wife syndrome fans" could simply switch the channel?

Any fan who has the epiphany moment that they have been forced to watch NY Knicks basketball against their will, can always jump to the Brooklyn Nèts.

Taken advantage of is a tad bit dramatic, yes?

the essential trait of battered-wife fans is that they can't turn away because they keep believing the batterer will change his ways and treat her with respect. add a sprinkle of "wanting to be entertained" and you have what is apparently a typical dolan-era knick fan.

so your comment about simply switching is nonsensical because the brainwashed do not live in the real world and see things for what they are.

some fans-- the ones you don't think are such-- don't need epiphanies and the reason is they have seen the future from the outset. and if they do continue to watch it is because the analogy that fits is "rubbernecking," not "battered wife." a rubbernecker is someone who slows down his vehicle to look with morbid fascination at a roadside wreck.

just remember that the reason why you are watching is not the same reason others watch. and you bet i am going to pay more attention to the other new york team this coming season. do you have a problem with that?

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

Getting excited about the team experiencing the most success in a decade and a half should be ok. How long are fans supposed to wait? Should it be 55 games or more and Eastern conference champions? Is it finals or no happiness? Not sure what the benchmark is for when it is ok to enjoy a team winning. Also, that great run in the 90's started with the team making the second round under Riley. I believe Ew was 28 that season.

is melo a franchise player? if yes then nothing less than a finals appearance or a strong ecf appearance will do.

if no then many battered-wife syndrome fans will be content with this also-ran team and dolan's folly and cynicism and contempt for the fan base will have been vindicated.

maybe this is the year fans recognize they are being taken advantage of.

Well if nothing less then a strong conference finals appearance is the parameters for a player to be a franchise player on a team with only one star you eliminate a lot of guys from the conversation. Obviously Chris Paul is out as a franchise guy. Durant wasn't able to get out of the second round without a second and third star. Dwight wasn't able to get out of the first round and we can't excuse him for his labrum tear because that is not allowed in as a variable. I think the only guy that qualifies is LBJ when he was in Cleveland.
Imagine what it would be like to be a Clips fan. You have two franchise players, win in the regular season and your no good racisist owner finally seems to be committed to winning and you still can't get out of the first round. Then you trade a first round pick in hopes that the coach you get can get your 'non' franchise player past the second round for the first time in his career.

durant has been to the finals. howard has been to the finals although i admit that was the year garnett was out. paul may not have been to the finals but i believe he will go further than melo this season. doc rivers is the coach now. if you could trade melo for paul straight up no strings would you make he trade.

yes or no question.

don't care about their scumbag owner i have enough problems with our scumbag lowlife degenerate owner.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

I'm 48 years old and my youngest son is 21. I've seen a lot of BB in my life. It's not that i'm all giddy about 2nd rd teams. I simply try to keep perspective when it comes to the team. We just saw this team win the most games since 1996-97. This team was flawed last year and they couldn't get to the ECF's as hoped. The teams have improved the roster this summer so that they can try to go deeper in the post season. What is sad is that some Knicks fans are actually not able to appreciate that they have a team for the 1st time in a decade that has a chance to fight for a title. This is the deepest and most talented team we've had since the last time we went to the finals. There is no question about that. NONE!

So why should fans not be looking forward to this season? Why should we be bashing the team as if it's full of bums and they have no shot? I was wondering what Grunwald would do this summer and how he would be able to get it done with no resources. I think he did a very good job given his limited resources. He managed to make the team deeper, younger, more athletic, more skilled and more balanced. Why should we not be pleased about that?

knickscity wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

There's really no way to argue any of this because most of what you have offered is subjective opinion. Things like "heart" and "entitlement" are cliche opinions formed by your personal preferences. They can not be measured in terms of offering a comparison.

While you see John Starks as a player with heart, I saw him as an overachieving tough guy who hustled, but also made hot headed and bone headed plays. I most remember him from shooting us out of the Knicks best chance at a ship in the past 40 years.

Bernard King is my favorite Knick of all time. However if he played today, I have no doubt that he would be roasted as a volume shooting ball hog on this board by some.

Comparing this Knicks team unfavorably to a past roster that couldn't get over the playoff hurdles to win a ship is a weak argument IMO.

Nothing is subjective, it's clear from a basketball standpoint, and needs no further explanation.
and as far as Starks...you dont get there without him, so i cant lay blame on him. BK would be even more efficient in this game today, yes he shot with volume but his efficency won over everyone that complains about melo in particular....your notorious melo cant standers love king, so now way would they rip him.

it's not the idea of not getting over the hurdle.....read my comment again....i accept that, if they put up a battle.

Howard was scratched from Friday night's game at Minnesota with a sore right shoulder and returned to Los Angeles to receive platelet-rich plasma treatments.

"It's extremely sore all over," Howard told reporters before the game. "[Saturday] after the procedure it was real stiff, but there's nothing I can do about it right now."

The All-Star center flew from L.A. to Detroit to rejoin the team Saturday evening but informed the Lakers he would not be able to play as the team boarded the bus Sunday morning on their way to the arena.

"As soon as the pain goes away he'll play," Lakers coach Mike D'Antoni said. "Hopefully that's the next game, but there are no guarantees. It's just day to day. They'll check it every day and see when he can go."

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

There's really no way to argue any of this because most of what you have offered is subjective opinion. Things like "heart" and "entitlement" are cliche opinions formed by your personal preferences. They can not be measured in terms of offering a comparison.

While you see John Starks as a player with heart, I saw him as an overachieving tough guy who hustled, but also made hot headed and bone headed plays. I most remember him from shooting us out of the Knicks best chance at a ship in the past 40 years.

Bernard King is my favorite Knick of all time. However if he played today, I have no doubt that he would be roasted as a volume shooting ball hog on this board by some.

Comparing this Knicks team unfavorably to a past roster that couldn't get over the playoff hurdles to win a ship is a weak argument IMO.

Nothing is subjective, it's clear from a basketball standpoint, and needs no further explanation.
and as far as Starks...you dont get there without him, so i cant lay blame on him. BK would be even more efficient in this game today, yes he shot with volume but his efficency won over everyone that complains about melo in particular....your notorious melo cant standers love king, so now way would they rip him.

it's not the idea of not getting over the hurdle.....read my comment again....i accept that, if they put up a battle.

Nothing is subjective? I loved John Starks. But did he play with broken fingers like Ray and threaten his career? My guess is he would have but denying Ray's heart is asinine. How about Melo playing with his torn labrum? This is what happened when Superman tore his labrum

Howard was scratched from Friday night's game at Minnesota with a sore right shoulder and returned to Los Angeles to receive platelet-rich plasma treatments.

"It's extremely sore all over," Howard told reporters before the game. "[Saturday] after the procedure it was real stiff, but there's nothing I can do about it right now."

The All-Star center flew from L.A. to Detroit to rejoin the team Saturday evening but informed the Lakers he would not be able to play as the team boarded the bus Sunday morning on their way to the arena.

"As soon as the pain goes away he'll play," Lakers coach Mike D'Antoni said. "Hopefully that's the next game, but there are no guarantees. It's just day to day. They'll check it every day and see when he can go."

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8910455/los-angeles-lakers-dwight-howard-again-injured-shoulder
I am going to apologize now because it was my first day back at work after a 9 week vacation. Maybe I am pissed about that or maybe I drank too much free coffee but the ish you post is off the chain.
How about 40 year old Kurt Thomas playing on a fractured foot to start a 13 game winning streak. Was there no fight in that club? How about the 16 games where Tyson was out with the flu and neck ish? Was there no fight in KMart. Tired @ss Kmart. The nnly guy to play after micro fracture surgery on both knees? Come on now. I think you need to come clean and say what your issue is. Last years team overachieved if anything and fought tooth and nail to get to where they got. What is the real issue?

But i do agree with your assessment that I enlarged, not my words though....but yours.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

I'm 48 years old and my youngest son is 21. I've seen a lot of BB in my life. It's not that i'm all giddy about 2nd rd teams. I simply try to keep perspective when it comes to the team. We just saw this team win the most games since 1996-97. This team was flawed last year and they couldn't get to the ECF's as hoped. The teams have improved the roster this summer so that they can try to go deeper in the post season. What is sad is that some Knicks fans are actually not able to appreciate that they have a team for the 1st time in a decade that has a chance to fight for a title. This is the deepest and most talented team we've had since the last time we went to the finals. There is no question about that. NONE!

So why should fans not be looking forward to this season? Why should we be bashing the team as if it's full of bums and they have no shot? I was wondering what Grunwald would do this summer and how he would be able to get it done with no resources. I think he did a very good job given his limited resources. He managed to make the team deeper, younger, more athletic, more skilled and more balanced. Why should we not be pleased about that?

Wow....didn't know you guys were so old....(I'm 40)....So thats a good thing. At lease you guys lived through some of the history of the good ole knicks. I was 2-3 months old during our last championship.

And Nixluva....I agree with your post. But with Knickcity talking about old school. This is a different generation than back in the days. Back then most teams had those hard players willing to fight for anything...Starks was my favorite player.

This is a different generation now....Those players are becoming extinct. The more money players make, the softer their hearts become. It's like comparing blue collar and white collar workers. Blue collar workers will always fight because thats their culture. In todays game, we have mostly white collar players. Thats why having players like MWP, Shump, JR, Felton.....Those are the type of old school blue collar players you want if you are trully an old school fan.

Anthony Bonner and Xavier McDaniels types do not make up this league anymore. It's a different ball game now. Move on or move out the way. Whether you like it or not the league is full of spoiled rich kids, that cares more about their money and individual stats, than team wins.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

You said it all in the first sentence. Having 2nd round teams and players like Bargnani appears orgasmic to Nixluva and JROD. I'm wondering if they have forgotten about the team pre-2000 or if they were too young to appreciate them.

Getting excited about the team experiencing the most success in a decade and a half should be ok. How long are fans supposed to wait? Should it be 55 games or more and Eastern conference champions? Is it finals or no happiness? Not sure what the benchmark is for when it is ok to enjoy a team winning. Also, that great run in the 90's started with the team making the second round under Riley. I believe Ew was 28 that season.

is melo a franchise player? if yes then nothing less than a finals appearance or a strong ecf appearance will do.

if no then many battered-wife syndrome fans will be content with this also-ran team and dolan's folly and cynicism and contempt for the fan base will have been vindicated.

maybe this is the year fans recognize they are being taken advantage of.

I think that is a ridiculous statement. There are likely more franchise calibure talent that HAVEN'T been to the ECF than have been. It not just about talent, but coaching, management....so many things go into winning and talent it just one. We could have 2frnachise players on the squad but, if the other elements do come into play, it doesn't matter.