I feel you nalod, everything being equal, you have a point there, but for some reason I have a thing about character guys, men who beat on their wives and players who admittingly quit on their teams, never strike me as winners. I want winners......
or
Maybe I am justa die hard Homer..

Its pathetic to see that all we have to knock Kidd is calling him a wifebeater. Whenever something good comes up about Kidd, he is immediately a wifebeater. Grow the hell up.

Aside from being a better defender, passer, rebounded and leader, going to two NBA finals and almost beating the Pistons on one leg and getting the depleated Nets into the Playoffs, while Marbury made two big shots the entire season while helping the knicks lose every close game they played i guess Marbury and Kidd are equal

Posted by tkf:

Posted by ultknicks524:

I feel you nalod, everything being equal, you have a point there, but for some reason I have a thing about character guys, men who beat on their wives and players who admittingly quit on their teams, never strike me as winners. I want winners......
or
Maybe I am justa die hard Homer..

Its pathetic to see that all we have to knock Kidd is calling him a wifebeater. Whenever something good comes up about Kidd, he is immediately a wifebeater. Grow the hell up.

what are you kidds secret lover? The FACT is that he is a wife beater, are you going to deny that? But I will knock kid on scoring zero points in a crucial game of a game 7 vs the pistons, I will knock kid for never developing a good jumper, and I will knock kid for running byron scott out of town after he led them to two finals... Are you happy now...!!!

Also dont forget: Asked for Motumbo, then asked for Zo. Threatened to force a trade because he was unhappy about the team losing. Kidd is just an annoying prima donna that hasnt won anything yet. Going to the NBA finals through/from a weak conference doesnt a winner make.

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by ultknicks524:

I feel you nalod, everything being equal, you have a point there, but for some reason I have a thing about character guys, men who beat on their wives and players who admittingly quit on their teams, never strike me as winners. I want winners......
or
Maybe I am justa die hard Homer..

Its pathetic to see that all we have to knock Kidd is calling him a wifebeater. Whenever something good comes up about Kidd, he is immediately a wifebeater. Grow the hell up.

what are you kidds secret lover? The FACT is that he is a wife beater, are you going to deny that? But I will knock kid on scoring zero points in a crucial game of a game 7 vs the pistons, I will knock kid for never developing a good jumper, and I will knock kid for running byron scott out of town after he led them to two finals... Are you happy now...!!!

Also dont forget: Asked for Motumbo, then asked for Zo. Threatened to force a trade because he was unhappy about the team losing. Kidd is just an annoying prima donna that hasnt won anything yet. Going to the NBA finals through/from a weak conference doesnt a winner make.

exactly, when it all boils down, kidd is a selfish, drama queen, loser.... If steph is a loser, then so is captain big head...

LOL...This is really quite funny. Ill take that selfish, drama queen loser over the gutless piece of crap we have.

[Edited by - ultknicks524 on 04/23/2005 01:42:11]

you are trying to make this into a Kidd vs. Marbury thing which has nothing to do with what most are saying.

Did you read the posts on this thread? I did not start a Kidd vs Marbury argument. MS did. If you had any comprehension skills whatsoever, you would see that. I was posting about the Nets future vs the Knicks future not Kidd vs Marbury.

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by ultknicks524:

LOL...This is really quite funny. Ill take that selfish, drama queen loser over the gutless piece of crap we have.

I am glad that its funny but you are trying to make this into a Kidd vs. Marbury thing which has nothing to do with what most are saying. The responses will be totally different if they were asked to choose. That is not what most are responding too.

Since you are enjoying this and you think it is funny, I will give you a couple of more knocks on Kidd:
1) He is not a franchise player ie: he is not good enough to be a the best player on your team.
2) If Jason Kidd is the best player on your team, you will never win a championship.

I would rather take a winner over your selfish, drama queen loser and Stephon. If you want to tell me you would rather have Kidd over Stephon, you can keep saying that. No one is talking about that on this thread.

that is what typical haters do, they bring the object of their hate into conversations that have nothing to do with them.... If you want to be real about this thing, give me chauncey billups over both of them, he is tough and a winner, MVP of finals.... Kidd hasn't won a thing, so we can argue who is better all day long.. I will take steph, he doesn't hit women( as far as I know) he doesn't get his coaches fired, and he doesn't go scoreless when his team needs him...

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by codeunknown:


If your point is that Warrick is underrated by these mock drafts, substitute Petro, Villanueva, Andray Blatche - one of these guys is going to be avalaible at #15 and will elevate the Nets system. The Knicks do not have as much of a chance at Bogut than the Nets have at those players - that much is glaringly obvious. Without question, this draft is somewhat deep and the Nets do not need a superstar - just a well-rounded complementary player. And the gradient between pick 7 and pick 15 is not steep, unfortunately for us. Now look at it from our perpective - the Knicks need a superstar, anything less means we are not even on the same playing field as New Jersey.

Even if Kidd=Marbury, Vince>>Crawford, RJ>>Ariza, and Kristic>Sweetney. Our major assets are far worse.

Your point about Houston is irrelevant to a long-term evaluation of both teams. When I point out RJ's absence, I'm implying that you can count on his all-star production for years to come. Moreover, the Nets team baseline = playoffs (42 wins) even without RJ. Knicks team baseline = 30 wins without Houston and, importantly, there's a huge chance his career asa starter is over. So, next year, the Nets baseline is about 50 wins, the Knicks baseline is 30 wins. They are in better position.

Speaking of remaining on topic, lets have someone actually respond to the argument above. I happen to think its quite articulate.

I think there is a lot of speculation in your argument, First of all, you basicaally said with two first round picks, and improving young players in Ariza and sweetney, that the knicks are no better than a 30 win team? That doesn't seem to make sense to me. And it is really hard to measure the chances of the nets getting those players because we have no earthly Idea what the 13 teams before them are going to do. You also seemed to disregard that fact that vince has a history of visiting the IR often, Also I don't think sweetney is that far behind kristic, you are comparing talent for talent, that does not always mean you will have a better team, that is still yet to be determined, we have no clue how vince and RJ will play together and if they will negate one another more than they compliment.... Anyway, You are entitled to your opinion, I just don't agree, and as far as Houtons relevance to the conversation, I was referring to the comment that the nets made the playoffs this year and we didn't, well if we had a healthy Houston, this year, that might have been different, as far as the long term goes, I am not counting on Houston, but to count on the health of vince carter, long term is almost as risky...

Posted by tkf:


I think there is a lot of speculation in your argument, First of all, you basicaally said with two first round picks, and improving young players in Ariza and sweetney, that the knicks are no better than a 30 win team? That doesn't seem to make sense to me. And it is really hard to measure the chances of the nets getting those players because we have no earthly Idea what the 13 teams before them are going to do. You also seemed to disregard that fact that vince has a history of visiting the IR often, Also I don't think sweetney is that far behind kristic, you are comparing talent for talent, that does not always mean you will have a better team, that is still yet to be determined, we have no clue how vince and RJ will play together and if they will negate one another more than they compliment.... Anyway, You are entitled to your opinion, I just don't agree, and as far as Houtons relevance to the conversation, I was referring to the comment that the nets made the playoffs this year and we didn't, well if we had a healthy Houston, this year, that might have been different, as far as the long term goes, I am not counting on Houston, but to count on the health of vince carter, long term is almost as risky...

The improvement of Ariza, Sweetney and Crawford has no net effect on the relative baseline between the Nets and the Knicks. And we're most certainly talking about a relative baseline if you reference argument 4 - a comparison of the Nets and Knicks. Thats is unless you think that the disparity of young talent is in our favor, but I find that implausible. Jefferson, Krstic and Planinic will improve as well, making any difference negligible. So, in fact, the projections made are based on current performance without speculation as to the future development of younger players.

Again, in terms of draftees, there are 5-6 players projected to go below 15 that will really help New Jersey. If all of them are not available, that means someone originally seen in the top-10 has dropped. Splitter, Taft, Vasquez, Martynas - any of them would also be huge for New Jersey. Regardless, the Nets won't have a problem selecting a good, complmentary player that fits their scheme.

A discussion even about the playoffs this year (and Houston's potential contribution) is tengential because neither team can win the championship. So, the issue doesn't relate to the 4 points outlined.

I agree that an injury to VC is a concern but his current play inspires confidence. The incidence of injury to Vince appears just as likely as one to any other superstar.