nycericanguy wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

technomaster wrote:I'd like to see the Knicks bring everyone back for another run. Mitchell Robinson is the most critical piece by a wide margin, at least in my book. Outside of Wemby, he's quietly one of the most game-changing defensive weapons in the league when he's on the floor. Other teams see Mitch in the game and it changes how they attack the basket. On the other end, he remains one of the most imposing offense rebounds in the game today. Sure he has his flaws (FT shooting, unwillingness to take a jumper), but the eye test and advanced stats really say he's a high impact player. And a critical piece in tandem for KAT as we saw in the finals. If you give him starter minutes, he performs like a monster, but with more minutes he becomes a greater injury risk.

He'd be really hard to replace with anything close. That is unless Hartenstein finds his way back here (can sign and trade scenarios work here - would OKC want to bring him in as their antidote to the emerging Spurs threat?).

If you can bring everyone back, maybe pay extra on frontloaded deals for next season, I'd love that. But there are financial forces at play, and we have a really expensive top 6 salaries (especially if Mitch gets paid)

I would say I loved the Knicks roster make up this year. I think in 2024-2025 we overindexed in rookies and in the playoffs we didn't have game-ready players to plug in. This season, our young guys were more prepared (Kolek was a huge part of many games before we picked up Alvarado - I think Kolek would have done great if he were called instead of Alvarado or McBride in the finals; Hukporti provided some extremely valuable emergency minutes; Diawara put in some great minutes during the regular season). The youthful energy and enthusiasm is infectious and can't be discounted.

UFA's:
1) Clarkson - nice player, but he's sort of complete duplication of role for Deuce. It's like your backup for your backup.
2) Sochan - I'm sort of torn on this, but he was never really fully integrated into the system. On PAPER he's a big player (6'8") who was being groomed as a PG as recently as last season, before the Spurs saw what a diaster it was and replaced him with Fox, Castle, and Harper. :) In another era, maybe he's the next Pippen. In this era, who knows how he fits in. It's sort of a fascinating twist, how the Spurs released him and let him become a UFA - only to be snapped up by the Knicks. I'd like to think his knowledge of SA's system and his defense on Wemby for a few plays was another piece that tilted the series in our favor. I like his size as a backup PF (tho wish he was an inch taller for that); he brings a lot as a modern forward except for shooting...
3) Shamet - Oh boy, so so clutch. Such a good 3&D player. Really good player overall. If he went over to Europe, he might be something like Evan Fournier. :) I don't see a lot of difference between the value of him and something like Devin Vassell, especially when you knock down Vassell to your 4th or 5th option on offense. It's really about what roles players are given. In any case, I'd like to see this guy get some real money. He's too good (and too much in his prime) to be sacrificing on a near min contract. I'd love to have him back but ultimately there are probably other replacements who can give you the numbers and minutes. But boy he was so, so clutch at times in the playoffs. Not a lot of drop off between the 4th/5th option version of Bridges and him.

Player Options:
1) Alvarado - love his tenacity. But we do already have Kolek on board and under contract. Reasons why he'd stay? Depends on his market value - and whether hometown loyalty weighs heavily on him. His lack of height and slight build make him a questionable target from other teams for starter minutes.

On to the RFAs:
1) Hukporti - nice dev center. He might even put up numbers if he were on a bad team. If you can keep him cheap, do it - familiarity is important so we don't need to start from scratch. On the other hand, there are some great league minimum vet center available. Best one I can think of is DeAndre Jordan. Plus the Spurs had 2 stashed on their bench: Olynyk (sort of a poor man's KAT with his 3pt range) and Mason Plumlee (excellent court vision and passer). As 3rd stringers, these guys are fantastic. As direct replacements for Mitch, we should be very worried.
2) Diawara - We sort of seem him becoming a starting quality forward one day. And at the moment, he looks like a better prospect as a SF-ish player than Dadiet. Both are so young and they've had the benefit of experiencing this title and learning from our starters. But the nature of the beast is that championship teams never age gracefully and the handoff to the next generation is never so ideal and smooth. (The Warriors inability to develop a new young stud to help out the aging cast has been an issue for what feels like almost a decade. Harrison Barnes was supposed to be that guy. Jonathan Kuminga was supposed to be that guy.). So as much as I think he's our best young prospect, he's also expendable since we have a few others like Dadiet who is under contract and at least on paper can do similar things.
3) McCullar Jr - Like what we've seen, but he can be easily replaced by similar prospects at this current stage of his career. I mean, come on, Alec Burks is available!
4) Jemison - Also liked him in limited work. man this guy is a physical specimen. Great 4th string muscle.
5) Jones - ?!? who knows what he's capable of.

Maybe it’s me but I don’t see Mitch as that game changing defender that he was in the past. I think the injuries have taken its toll. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a strong defender and offensive rebounder. I’m not sure that Mitch was even better defensively in the playoffs than KAT.

He wasn't as dominant as we've seen from him but I don't think it's a declining thing just yet. He was still the best OREB in the NBA and still a really good defender. But he can probably stand to lose a few pounds at this point.

I think 3/39m is a fair deal for him.

3/39 would be great. I thought he would be getting something closer to 20 per.

What if we need to not sign Mitch and Shamet to keep Diawara? I would hate to lose Diawara. We can draft Zuby and Reed and be fine at backup center and likely outperform Mitch

PatCummings wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Sochan is a very interesting player. Maybe we are not giving him the credit for being key in how we managed wemby.
Cuz knicks did. Perhaps a bit of insight to his tendancies not caught on tape but in practice?
curious if he sticks. Perhaps he is a back up project if Diawra bolts? Or, sloted to be OG's understudy?
Sochan as we discussed week or so ago was Pop's point forward experiemnt that did not work.

McCullar? I kind of get the fan support but can just as easliy see him being released? If no clear role for him here maybe he wants to leave for an other opportunity if such exists. We drafting? We trading the picks up? Down?

The Knicks could have released McCullar any time over the past 2 years but instead chose to help him back from a major bone bruise knee injury after drafting him and then also gave him super ample opportunity in the GLeague. I could be 100% wrong on this guess but I think the Knicks regard him high on their Keep list.

POA defender that is a legit 6'5+, so bigger than Dylan Harper and same size as Stephen Castle but more slithery than strong than those guys. He is a secondary ball handler and facilitator (although both need to be proved at the NBA level), much much better than Deuce. His close to basket and mid range is solid and he has a lot to prove from distance.

In the GLeague, they often gave him the ball as a PG and let him do whatever, pass, shoot, TO and just let him go. Same with Dadiet to a lesser degree. Huk I think dominated his times in the GLeague so much that it wasn't really worthwhile (similar to Kolek) but I could be wrong on that one.

Knicks IMO will do a min deal with him and he'll overplay that contract by a lot.

Totally agree on McCullar. He will get a chance to be part of the rotation and I hope he succeeds. The point forward part of his game would be helpful.

Think of picking McCullar as similar to Denver when they drafted Michael Porter Jr. who was at one point the top prospect in the nation, but who dropped because he would require spinal surgery. It was considered a roll of the dice at that time and Denver ended up with a starter for multiple years.

McCullar is not that much different in terms of logic behind drafting him. He was considered either the best or close to the best defensive player in the nation with some offensive ability. His bone bruise was a multi-year injury that involved just rehabbing his first year as a Knick and then playing again this year, some off the bench, some in G League.

The biggest differences in this analogy is Porter had less obstacles to claiming a starter position in Denver and he was considered as primarily an offensive talent. McCullar's path to a starting role would either be next to Brunson instead of Hart or replacing Bridges, neither of which is likely next season. He is a swing player, a guard with good size, good strength and excellent lateral mobility who can slide over to SF, but who looks to play primarily as a backup combo guard.

His trajectory into a rotation spot was always going to be 3 years based on his rehab cycle. He got some playing time this year and showed a legitimately better handle than any of our bench guards, much better passing skills and floor vision than any of our bench guards plus an ability to score for real.

The guy is a legit baller with size with better skills than any other bench guards other than maybe Shamet, but he's still a much better floor general than Shamet anyway.

Kolek and McCullar are whom need to take over the guard minutes next season. You'll get superior orchestration plus elite defense from McCullar who will win games for you defensively, mark my words.

BlueKnickers wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Sochan is a very interesting player. Maybe we are not giving him the credit for being key in how we managed wemby.
Cuz knicks did. Perhaps a bit of insight to his tendancies not caught on tape but in practice?
curious if he sticks. Perhaps he is a back up project if Diawra bolts? Or, sloted to be OG's understudy?
Sochan as we discussed week or so ago was Pop's point forward experiemnt that did not work.

McCullar? I kind of get the fan support but can just as easliy see him being released? If no clear role for him here maybe he wants to leave for an other opportunity if such exists. We drafting? We trading the picks up? Down?

The Knicks could have released McCullar any time over the past 2 years but instead chose to help him back from a major bone bruise knee injury after drafting him and then also gave him super ample opportunity in the GLeague. I could be 100% wrong on this guess but I think the Knicks regard him high on their Keep list.

POA defender that is a legit 6'5+, so bigger than Dylan Harper and same size as Stephen Castle but more slithery than strong than those guys. He is a secondary ball handler and facilitator (although both need to be proved at the NBA level), much much better than Deuce. His close to basket and mid range is solid and he has a lot to prove from distance.

In the GLeague, they often gave him the ball as a PG and let him do whatever, pass, shoot, TO and just let him go. Same with Dadiet to a lesser degree. Huk I think dominated his times in the GLeague so much that it wasn't really worthwhile (similar to Kolek) but I could be wrong on that one.

Knicks IMO will do a min deal with him and he'll overplay that contract by a lot.

Totally agree on McCullar. He will get a chance to be part of the rotation and I hope he succeeds. The point forward part of his game would be helpful.

Think of picking McCullar as similar to Denver when they drafted Michael Porter Jr. who was at one point the top prospect in the nation, but who dropped because he would require spinal surgery. It was considered a roll of the dice at that time and Denver ended up with a starter for multiple years.

McCullar is not that much different in terms of logic behind drafting him. He was considered either the best or close to the best defensive player in the nation with some offensive ability. His bone bruise was a multi-year injury that involved just rehabbing his first year as a Knick and then playing again this year, some off the bench, some in G League.

The biggest differences in this analogy is Porter had less obstacles to claiming a starter position in Denver and he was considered as primarily an offensive talent. McCullar's path to a starting role would either be next to Brunson instead of Hart or replacing Bridges, neither of which is likely next season. He is a swing player, a guard with good size, good strength and excellent lateral mobility who can slide over to SF, but who looks to play primarily as a backup combo guard.

His trajectory into a rotation spot was always going to be 3 years based on his rehab cycle. He got some playing time this year and showed a legitimately better handle than any of our bench guards, much better passing skills and floor vision than any of our bench guards plus an ability to score for real.

The guy is a legit baller with size with better skills than any other bench guards other than maybe Shamet, but he's still a much better floor general than Shamet anyway.

Kolek and McCullar are whom need to take over the guard minutes next season. You'll get superior orchestration plus elite defense from McCullar who will win games for you defensively, mark my words.

Yeah I think this is really good stuff

Rookie wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Sochan is a very interesting player. Maybe we are not giving him the credit for being key in how we managed wemby.
Cuz knicks did. Perhaps a bit of insight to his tendancies not caught on tape but in practice?
curious if he sticks. Perhaps he is a back up project if Diawra bolts? Or, sloted to be OG's understudy?
Sochan as we discussed week or so ago was Pop's point forward experiemnt that did not work.

McCullar? I kind of get the fan support but can just as easliy see him being released? If no clear role for him here maybe he wants to leave for an other opportunity if such exists. We drafting? We trading the picks up? Down?

The Knicks could have released McCullar any time over the past 2 years but instead chose to help him back from a major bone bruise knee injury after drafting him and then also gave him super ample opportunity in the GLeague. I could be 100% wrong on this guess but I think the Knicks regard him high on their Keep list.

POA defender that is a legit 6'5+, so bigger than Dylan Harper and same size as Stephen Castle but more slithery than strong than those guys. He is a secondary ball handler and facilitator (although both need to be proved at the NBA level), much much better than Deuce. His close to basket and mid range is solid and he has a lot to prove from distance.

In the GLeague, they often gave him the ball as a PG and let him do whatever, pass, shoot, TO and just let him go. Same with Dadiet to a lesser degree. Huk I think dominated his times in the GLeague so much that it wasn't really worthwhile (similar to Kolek) but I could be wrong on that one.

Knicks IMO will do a min deal with him and he'll overplay that contract by a lot.

Totally agree on McCullar. He will get a chance to be part of the rotation and I hope he succeeds. The point forward part of his game would be helpful.

Think of picking McCullar as similar to Denver when they drafted Michael Porter Jr. who was at one point the top prospect in the nation, but who dropped because he would require spinal surgery. It was considered a roll of the dice at that time and Denver ended up with a starter for multiple years.

McCullar is not that much different in terms of logic behind drafting him. He was considered either the best or close to the best defensive player in the nation with some offensive ability. His bone bruise was a multi-year injury that involved just rehabbing his first year as a Knick and then playing again this year, some off the bench, some in G League.

The biggest differences in this analogy is Porter had less obstacles to claiming a starter position in Denver and he was considered as primarily an offensive talent. McCullar's path to a starting role would either be next to Brunson instead of Hart or replacing Bridges, neither of which is likely next season. He is a swing player, a guard with good size, good strength and excellent lateral mobility who can slide over to SF, but who looks to play primarily as a backup combo guard.

His trajectory into a rotation spot was always going to be 3 years based on his rehab cycle. He got some playing time this year and showed a legitimately better handle than any of our bench guards, much better passing skills and floor vision than any of our bench guards plus an ability to score for real.

The guy is a legit baller with size with better skills than any other bench guards other than maybe Shamet, but he's still a much better floor general than Shamet anyway.

Kolek and McCullar are whom need to take over the guard minutes next season. You'll get superior orchestration plus elite defense from McCullar who will win games for you defensively, mark my words.

Yeah I think this is really good stuff

It might not be good news for Deuce. If McCuller gets a role it would be Deuces minutes

Great analysis on McCullar. I’d be open to trading Deuce. This is his last year of his contract and he has some value as a very inexpensive on ball defender with great length and 3 pt shot.

Until then?

I'm only talking about this current squad and living in the moment.

fitzfarm wrote:Mitch is a must and Mo.

I don’t think a lot of people realize how good Mitch is and what a nightmare he is to opposing teams he is a elite defender and a elite offensive rebounder… he also has quick hands and gets steals . He gave wimby hell and he’s BIG and can’t be bullied. For what he is good at you take the poor ft shooting .

We will bring Mitch back at all cost since we can financially and we need him. There’s not another player in this league that is Mitch, maybe Robert Williams is the closest to him but he has an even worse injury history.

Shamet will have to give us a discount as someone will give him a bag after what he accomplished. But I think he loves NY and this team so fingers crossed he signs a minimum deal or whatever we can offer him.

Clarkson I think is a goner because I think we can upgrade . Maybe that’s where we get cam Thomas.or we look at pick number 24 . Or we give Kolek his due.

What will be interesting is if we get a vet who just wants to win a chip and is willing to come over on a vet minimum contract.

at vet min prices

we're not gonna get an upgrade over Clarkson-level player/production potential

technomaster wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

PatCummings wrote:<snip>
Maybe it’s me but I don’t see Mitch as that game changing defender that he was in the past. I think the injuries have taken its toll. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a strong defender and offensive rebounder. I’m not sure that Mitch was even better defensively in the playoffs than KAT.

He wasn't as dominant as we've seen from him but I don't think it's a declining thing just yet. He was still the best OREB in the NBA and still a really good defender. But he can probably stand to lose a few pounds at this point.

I think 3/39m is a fair deal for him.

3/39 would be great. I thought he would be getting something closer to 20 per.

What if we need to not sign Mitch and Shamet to keep Diawara? I would hate to lose Diawara. We can draft Zuby and Reed and be fine at backup center and likely outperform Mitch

Expecting a rookie to come in and spell KAT when he's in foul trouble? Disaster waiting to happen.

The Spurs play a lot like OKC... and the Knicks. 1 mobile big + 4 guards/wings. These types of teams are the toughest to defend for a big man

The skill level around the league has really transformed over the past decade. Curry was a novelty until they won a title. Then he inspired a generation of freewheeling shooting. It seems like everyone can shoot the 3 - hot just the spot up. Seems like everyone (including KAT) has the pull up, step back, side step, and fallaway 3s in their arsenals. And everyone seems to have a floater too. It's like there are all of these counter moves to diminish the value of non-shooting bigs.

I don't know, I think Mitch is going to want a raise.

In a perfect world, Diawara and Shamet agree to reasonable deals to come back and we go over the 2nd apron to sign Mitch. Then we can draft a big who won’t need to play day 1

But if Diawara wants more $ and we prioritize him, we won’t be able to keep Mitch. We’ll likely draft a big and sign a vet min guy

PatCummings wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Sochan is a very interesting player. Maybe we are not giving him the credit for being key in how we managed wemby.
Cuz knicks did. Perhaps a bit of insight to his tendancies not caught on tape but in practice?
curious if he sticks. Perhaps he is a back up project if Diawra bolts? Or, sloted to be OG's understudy?
Sochan as we discussed week or so ago was Pop's point forward experiemnt that did not work.

McCullar? I kind of get the fan support but can just as easliy see him being released? If no clear role for him here maybe he wants to leave for an other opportunity if such exists. We drafting? We trading the picks up? Down?

The Knicks could have released McCullar any time over the past 2 years but instead chose to help him back from a major bone bruise knee injury after drafting him and then also gave him super ample opportunity in the GLeague. I could be 100% wrong on this guess but I think the Knicks regard him high on their Keep list.

POA defender that is a legit 6'5+, so bigger than Dylan Harper and same size as Stephen Castle but more slithery than strong than those guys. He is a secondary ball handler and facilitator (although both need to be proved at the NBA level), much much better than Deuce. His close to basket and mid range is solid and he has a lot to prove from distance.

In the GLeague, they often gave him the ball as a PG and let him do whatever, pass, shoot, TO and just let him go. Same with Dadiet to a lesser degree. Huk I think dominated his times in the GLeague so much that it wasn't really worthwhile (similar to Kolek) but I could be wrong on that one.

Knicks IMO will do a min deal with him and he'll overplay that contract by a lot.

Totally agree on McCullar. He will get a chance to be part of the rotation and I hope he succeeds. The point forward part of his game would be helpful.

Think of picking McCullar as similar to Denver when they drafted Michael Porter Jr. who was at one point the top prospect in the nation, but who dropped because he would require spinal surgery. It was considered a roll of the dice at that time and Denver ended up with a starter for multiple years.

McCullar is not that much different in terms of logic behind drafting him. He was considered either the best or close to the best defensive player in the nation with some offensive ability. His bone bruise was a multi-year injury that involved just rehabbing his first year as a Knick and then playing again this year, some off the bench, some in G League.

The biggest differences in this analogy is Porter had less obstacles to claiming a starter position in Denver and he was considered as primarily an offensive talent. McCullar's path to a starting role would either be next to Brunson instead of Hart or replacing Bridges, neither of which is likely next season. He is a swing player, a guard with good size, good strength and excellent lateral mobility who can slide over to SF, but who looks to play primarily as a backup combo guard.

His trajectory into a rotation spot was always going to be 3 years based on his rehab cycle. He got some playing time this year and showed a legitimately better handle than any of our bench guards, much better passing skills and floor vision than any of our bench guards plus an ability to score for real.

The guy is a legit baller with size with better skills than any other bench guards other than maybe Shamet, but he's still a much better floor general than Shamet anyway.

Kolek and McCullar are whom need to take over the guard minutes next season. You'll get superior orchestration plus elite defense from McCullar who will win games for you defensively, mark my words.

I’m concerned about Kolek. Drafted as a senior and the Knicks didn’t trust him enough to be the backup for us in his second year. We traded for a very avg undersized PG bc he can dribble and guys can’t blow past him. Kolek’s passing and shooting were very good but the Knicks determined it wasn’t good enough to offset his weaknesses

He improved from Y1 to Y2. Hopefully there’s more growth in Y3. But it’s hard to feel confident that the Knicks will play him in a big game

Kolek's D improved considerably by the third month of the season and he was actively staying in front of his man most of the time after that.

We'll see. If they plan to use him next year they'll likely give him an extension.

My main criteria is our team almost always played well or better when he was the distributor. I can't say the same for any other bench guard this season.

Rookie wrote:If Kolek could handle the pressure of bigger stronger guards he would be playing. Heck, even Deuce disappeared in the playoffs. If our measure is the playoffs, neither make the team even though they both helped us get to the playoffs

Again, this is a manufactured narrative based on only a few instances where Kolek struggled against full-court pressure. It is not the norm, yet a few of you harp on it as if it was a chronic issue when it most definitely was not. He has a good handle, not a sub-par handle.

His ability to bring the ball up the court was just fine most of the time and it was as good or better than how Brunson handles the same pressure.

The only legitimate knock against Kolek is he's a small defender who will get exploited on defense sometimes.

Alpha1971 wrote:If I understand the cap regs and contract structure keeping Mo D has nothing to do with whether we keep Mitch or Shamet. We can keep Mitch and Shamet and we can offer them fair value. However, Mo because he was a second round pick who we offered a one year deal, is limited by contract as to how much we can offer him. Another team I believe can offer him more then we will be allowed to offer him. Now, would MoD seek out top dollar or take what we can offer him fairly to develop behind OG and Hart and be on a championship team that drafted him ? Will another team try offer him big money ? I seem to think he will remain for the environment. I am still optimistic about Dadiet and maybe he will come back more aggressive on offense and improve on defense. Anyone for summer league this year ?

OK, I took a look at the changes in the more current CBA on 2nd round picks. It's actually an exception ( that's an interesting wrinkle since it starts to fuzz the line with a later first round pick and an early 2nd, the NBPA must have conceded something for that to happen) , so it naturally locks out using a portion of the Tax Payers MLE to pay Diawara. Interesting.

And the exception for 2nd round picks is locked out because Diawara signed an Exhibit 10 deal. ( That provision actually makes more sense)

Yes, now this defaults to an Arenas Rule situation. Other teams can offer Diawara up to the full MLE, but the Knicks have a right to match. However it's unlikely another team would offer that much ( as Diawara looked good, he's also still mostly unproven) Now Diawara can help himself back to the Knicks, if he wants that, by only signing an offer he knows they will match and keep them under the 2nd Apron. From the perspective of Diawara's agent, he'll contend that while Diawara is not worth the full MLE, he is worth somewhere approximate to a mid to late first round picks slotting. More towards late. Obviously Knicks want less and Diawara wants more, so in the middle is probably fair.

However this team cannot keep all of Diawara, MRob and Shamet and stay under the 2nd Apron. This goes beyond the tax implications ( Dolan doesn't care about the money at this point), going above the 2nd Apron effectively locks the team out of practical trades, using its Annual Cash Allotment and prevents picking up mid season buyouts from other teams. For a chance at a repeat, you need some flexibility. The Veterans Minimum reduces it's value against the Apron to the salary slotting of a 2nd year player. Even if the player has more actual tenure than that. There are going to be value add type players available for the Veterans Minimum. Under the 2nd Apron, the Knicks will also still have the tax payers MLE too.

I just don't see it. I appreciate what MRob has done for this team over time, and what Shamet did this season, but I just don't see keeping them as worth the tradeoffs implied.

TripleThreat wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Mitch isn't an upside player. He pretty much is what he is. Will a team give starter money/role with the lack of upside and durability concerns in this cap environment?

2018-19: 66 games
2019-20: 61 games
2020-21: 31 games
2021-22: 72 games
2022-23: 59 games
2023-24: 31 games
2024-25: 17 games
2025-26: 60 games

****

IIRC, the projected 2nd Apron is about 223 million. Given the Knicks are roughly, math in my head, about 4-5 million off of the 1st Apron already, that means signing MRob, to somewhere around his probable market value, even with a slight discount, would mean the team would be essentially forced to trade Josh Hart off the roster to stay under the 2nd Apron. Out of the main 5 core players, Hart is the most expendable from a winning standpoint and the player with the most options to shed his salary as fast as possible. Don't get me wrong, the Knicks would win more games with Hart than without him, it's just his loss would be relatively less brutal than losing any of Brunson, OG, KAT or Bridges.

Any chance of holding onto Diawara requires access to the Mid Level Exception. Once you breach the 2nd Apron, that flushes the MLE. In order to optimize if they breach the 2nd Apron, they will need to do what the Warriors did, which was have player like Payton II, Seth Curry, De'Anthony Melton and others waiting in the wings for minimum deals. I.E. lock in your ring chasers early.

Average out MRob's last three seasons. His trend line, especially with Thibs attrition on his resume, doesn't bode well for even baseline availability.

If someone is asking it's a tradeoff, then Yes, it's a trade off. The extent of the tradeoff grows or shrinks based on the matchup. If the Knicks get into the Finals next season, and it's OKC Thunder versus the Spurs, then they'll wish they had more wing depth compared to an expensive backup center. One of the X Factors no one talks about is a much better long range shooting team than the Spurs can begin to neutralize the impact of having an expensive backup center deployed against them, assuming that expensive backup is even healthy enough to play.

In the "Space And Pace" era, I don't think you can lean that much of your total cap into your pivots, especially when the backup cannot give you gravity and floor spacing. I'm not sure he can safely give you back to backs anymore either.

Even though mid 20s slotting is not totally brutal, the Knicks might need to start thinking of trading back out of the first round in the upcoming draft, if there's not a really coveted player in that range for them. IIRC, they have the 31st pick as well. So that's useful. Trading back or trading the pick for a veteran player for help in the back end of the rotation.

Something to consider is Clarkson, Shamet and McBride, aspects of their production was created by opportunity opened by Brunson, KAT and OG. Someone is going to get left open somewhere. Which means someone like Shamet looks good on the Knicks this season, but that's not the entire story. If the system is a floor raiser, then a plug and play type veteran player can also give you some production in that format. Maybe not to the same degree. But again, can you 70 percent of the production at 20-25 percent of the cost?

Knicks really need to avoid breaching the 2nd Apron if possible. This operates more than just if Dolan is willing to eat the money for the taxes. The impact is just crippling. And some aspects linger into your next season as well. What's unintentionally hilarious about this is the CBA changes to the 2nd Apron was really designed to kill the dynasty Warriors. Except the splash damage hurt every other team in the league anyway. Father Time killed the Warriors in due course, the league didn't need to change the rules. The stupid ownership of the Warriors killed them before the CBA did ( forcing the Wiseman pick, etc)

IMHO, the math doesn't add up on MRob. He's a nice luxury to have if you can afford it. But the Knicks can't afford it really ( Loss of flexibility is a bigger problem, that the Knicks are a "cash rich" team is irrelevant on this matter). Also, as stated, he's in a situation were he's tragically a "luxury" to attempt a repeat.

A lot of good points.

I would say the Knicks probably aren't concerned with going into the 2nd apron for a season or 2 max. And I do agree for the most part about the system being a floor raiser where we will be able to find and plug in a new Shamet from the vet min or young prospect(McCullar)batch.

So getting hung up on paying players off this championship run will cripple the team over the long term.

If we went the no emotion cost effective route. They offer Mo, Huk, & McCullar cheap 2-3 year deals for full control. Banking on their development and another chip run right before they're due for larger increases. As well as using #24, #31 & #57 for long term rotational depth pieces. The money freed up from not resigning Mitch & Shamet opens up the money to cover all of that. Knick can also reallocate Deuce & Dadiet($6.8mil) for further cost controlled long term pieces and better fits. We would most likely maintain our tax payer mid level as well. Which can be used as the stop gap backup C to reduce the pressure off Huk. Which we will bank on being ready for full time backup C heading into his 4th season. While already locked up for cheap with about 2 years remaining on the new deal. Say they landed Andre Drummond for that mid level money.

KAT/Drummond(FA)/Huk
Mo/OG/Zuby(draft)/Karaban(draft)
OG/Hart/Mikal/Karaban(draft)
Mikal/McCullar/Hart/Brunson
Brunson/Alvarado/Kolek/Bradley(draft)

Keeps the team under the 2nd apron, completely dependent on the development of the prospects that have been working within the program and new ones. If the prospects develop, will maintain championship contender status as well as extending the championship window.