Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:The kid is 20 and an opportunity is more valuable sometimes then some contracts. That he proved himself is one thing but he also owes the team the benefit of the doubt given few contending teams let rookies do what he is doing. With the right coach and staff in place that is very important than say go to a **** team with cap space and take nice 2 year-3 year deal. He is learning, surrounded by a mature group of players, and thriving. So rare this happens. Ask Frank. Ask Trier. Frank was drafted into chaos and he failed to execute. Trier was given a golden ticket/contract and was never to be seen again. Shit happens for many reasons. Not just Knicks either.

I know we all excited about his upside and if true the money will come regardless. Im not saying he ownes us a debt of graditude he should repay to his detriment. He, his agent, and the knicks had a plan and he fulfilled/executed his end wonderfully. Relationships that work are rare and I gather this FO, lead by an very smart former agent knows how to lay it all out to everyones benefit.

Maybe what we miss is we don't bring everyone back thus creating salary spots that can be filled. ON the surface Mitch and perhaps Josh could be gone. I don't know how our FO feels about Giannis and at what price. That itself will create massive change.

While there is value in running it back one more year with this core under Brown if there is still a higher ceiling with the same group, one can also say if we don't go to finals with Mitch and Josh, then maybe there is another path?
Same with KAT, OG and Mikal I suppose.

I don't see it, but all things I gather are on the table. That also includes at some level and in time Diawa becomming a really good trade chip. Kind of like Deuce with his current contract. Its another reason development is important. They create opportunities (IQ).

I thought the graphic during the SAS game sunday that Spurs get so much production from drafted players while the knicks hardly get any was interesting. They were not critical, just said there were different paths.

If you could choose only one of Deuce and Alvarado who you got? Deuce’s next contract is going to hurt, could be time to move on and stick with the veteran minimum guy. Besides we have a guy who’s not really a point guard but too small to be a shooting guard named Brunson. I love Deuce but sometimes you can’t keep everybody. Mitch on the other hand isn’t going anywhere. If someone is going to do a team friendly contest it’s him.

With the cap situation I don’t see us keeping our FRP either. Maybe we just kick it down the road because going over that second apron looks like a bad way to go.

I think the choice isn’t between Jose and Deuce, it’s between Shamet and Deuce. Both operate as 3 and D guards. Shamet can play up but Deuce provides more ball handling. Deuce is better overall but will get paid more. Outside of our starting 5, I think Alvarado, Mitch and Diawara come back and the final rotation spot is either shamet or Deuce as a 3&D guy. Then they will just fill out the roster on minimum contracts and rookie contracts. Ultimately the Deuce/ shamet decision comes down to money. If shamet is fine coming back cheap, great. If he wants to get paid, he’s probably gone and the Knicks shift focus to a deuce extension. This is all assuming no major trade. Obviously a trade changes things.

TBH, Shamet is as good as Deuce with more size for match-up purposes

I think Deuce is a much better player than Shamet. But I can see why the added size is important.

I'm a Deuce fan. He was blazing hot from 3 when he went down, but other than that there are no qualifications to say he is much better than Shamet.

I'd want them both on my team, but if a cap situation came up where you had to trade Deuce and pay Shamet a third or half as much you'd be getting the same impact on the floor.

Shamet is actually better than Deuce at getting over screens on defense. He is 6'5" and completely ripped. His size and strength matches him up with almost anyone you put him on. Deuce is a shorty and is known to struggle when defending anyone over 6'5" so there's that.

On offense, Shamet is every bit Deuce's equal in decisive actions on offense. If anything, Shamet will probe defenses more than Deuce and find seams to either score in or to get off a pass.

Shamet's ball handling skills are at least equal to Deuce.

Deuce may still be improving though and Shamet is a fairly finished product.

But in terms of their roles, they are very similar and Shamet was the player who supercharged this team to go on its current run with his defensive intensity and clean offensive contributions.

If you can make a case for why Deuce is a much better player I'm open, but I see them as pretty much equals at this point with a size advantage to Shamet.

Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:The kid is 20 and an opportunity is more valuable sometimes then some contracts. That he proved himself is one thing but he also owes the team the benefit of the doubt given few contending teams let rookies do what he is doing. With the right coach and staff in place that is very important than say go to a **** team with cap space and take nice 2 year-3 year deal. He is learning, surrounded by a mature group of players, and thriving. So rare this happens. Ask Frank. Ask Trier. Frank was drafted into chaos and he failed to execute. Trier was given a golden ticket/contract and was never to be seen again. Shit happens for many reasons. Not just Knicks either.

I know we all excited about his upside and if true the money will come regardless. Im not saying he ownes us a debt of graditude he should repay to his detriment. He, his agent, and the knicks had a plan and he fulfilled/executed his end wonderfully. Relationships that work are rare and I gather this FO, lead by an very smart former agent knows how to lay it all out to everyones benefit.

Maybe what we miss is we don't bring everyone back thus creating salary spots that can be filled. ON the surface Mitch and perhaps Josh could be gone. I don't know how our FO feels about Giannis and at what price. That itself will create massive change.

While there is value in running it back one more year with this core under Brown if there is still a higher ceiling with the same group, one can also say if we don't go to finals with Mitch and Josh, then maybe there is another path?
Same with KAT, OG and Mikal I suppose.

I don't see it, but all things I gather are on the table. That also includes at some level and in time Diawa becomming a really good trade chip. Kind of like Deuce with his current contract. Its another reason development is important. They create opportunities (IQ).

I thought the graphic during the SAS game sunday that Spurs get so much production from drafted players while the knicks hardly get any was interesting. They were not critical, just said there were different paths.

With the cap situation I don’t see us keeping our FRP either. Maybe we just kick it down the road because going over that second apron looks like a bad way to go.

I said this in another thread. Knicks have TOO MANY young players, with high potential, who would be free agents this Summer.

Diawara
Hukporti
McCullar
Jamison

Out of this group, the only one I would be "kind of" ok of letting go is Jamison but Huk, McCullar and Diawara are the next wave that can step up and replace, Mitch, Hart and OG. I think the Knicks FO know this too and, if there isn't a play for Giannis this off season, I can see Rose trading ALL of '26 draft for future picks in order to stay under the cap in order to keep our guys

Hukporti is not an essential must keep player. He's a nice insurance player to have to see if he gets better, but he has not taken a considerable leap to consider him a priority.

McCullar most certainly is. He's waiting his turn and is slept on right now, but the guy is a defensive stud with good fundamentals on both ends of the court. I expect the FO to try and keep him.

I think hukporti has been pretty bad. He seems to have regressed from his rookie year prior to that injury. It’s tough to keep him signed since he’s not eligible for a second round exception deal. There’s always going to be better bigs available for the minimum. As for McCullar, I like him. He brings good energy. But I’m concerned about the lack of shooting or any particular skill on the offensive end. The only true NBA players we have in our young core are Diawara and Kolek. Kolek is worth keeping as a 3rd string PG. And of course Diawara is a stud.

McCullar has offensive skills. He can shoot, he has a handle, he can create and he can dime. He is an NBA player.

And he is an elite defender.

Eventually he will need to show some of those things though. He never lit up summer league or Westchester. His proven skills are limited to defensive effort right now.

I think McCullar was considered a pretty good rim finisher and mid range guy in college. Just needed to prove the distance thing.

He is very connective like Josh Hart and willing shooter.

I don't know if Knicks would have bird rights after next year with him but Knicks have stood by his development and injury recovery. It'll take something weird for him to leave? Like maybe Shamet Deuce Hart Mikal Mo Dadiet all being on roster next year and no other above vet min offers that would yield minutes.

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:The kid is 20 and an opportunity is more valuable sometimes then some contracts. That he proved himself is one thing but he also owes the team the benefit of the doubt given few contending teams let rookies do what he is doing. With the right coach and staff in place that is very important than say go to a **** team with cap space and take nice 2 year-3 year deal. He is learning, surrounded by a mature group of players, and thriving. So rare this happens. Ask Frank. Ask Trier. Frank was drafted into chaos and he failed to execute. Trier was given a golden ticket/contract and was never to be seen again. Shit happens for many reasons. Not just Knicks either.

I know we all excited about his upside and if true the money will come regardless. Im not saying he ownes us a debt of graditude he should repay to his detriment. He, his agent, and the knicks had a plan and he fulfilled/executed his end wonderfully. Relationships that work are rare and I gather this FO, lead by an very smart former agent knows how to lay it all out to everyones benefit.

Maybe what we miss is we don't bring everyone back thus creating salary spots that can be filled. ON the surface Mitch and perhaps Josh could be gone. I don't know how our FO feels about Giannis and at what price. That itself will create massive change.

While there is value in running it back one more year with this core under Brown if there is still a higher ceiling with the same group, one can also say if we don't go to finals with Mitch and Josh, then maybe there is another path?
Same with KAT, OG and Mikal I suppose.

I don't see it, but all things I gather are on the table. That also includes at some level and in time Diawa becomming a really good trade chip. Kind of like Deuce with his current contract. Its another reason development is important. They create opportunities (IQ).

I thought the graphic during the SAS game sunday that Spurs get so much production from drafted players while the knicks hardly get any was interesting. They were not critical, just said there were different paths.

If you could choose only one of Deuce and Alvarado who you got? Deuce’s next contract is going to hurt, could be time to move on and stick with the veteran minimum guy. Besides we have a guy who’s not really a point guard but too small to be a shooting guard named Brunson. I love Deuce but sometimes you can’t keep everybody. Mitch on the other hand isn’t going anywhere. If someone is going to do a team friendly contest it’s him.

With the cap situation I don’t see us keeping our FRP either. Maybe we just kick it down the road because going over that second apron looks like a bad way to go.

I think the choice isn’t between Jose and Deuce, it’s between Shamet and Deuce. Both operate as 3 and D guards. Shamet can play up but Deuce provides more ball handling. Deuce is better overall but will get paid more. Outside of our starting 5, I think Alvarado, Mitch and Diawara come back and the final rotation spot is either shamet or Deuce as a 3&D guy. Then they will just fill out the roster on minimum contracts and rookie contracts. Ultimately the Deuce/ shamet decision comes down to money. If shamet is fine coming back cheap, great. If he wants to get paid, he’s probably gone and the Knicks shift focus to a deuce extension. This is all assuming no major trade. Obviously a trade changes things.

TBH, Shamet is as good as Deuce with more size for match-up purposes

I think Deuce is a much better player than Shamet. But I can see why the added size is important.

I'm a Deuce fan. He was blazing hot from 3 when he went down, but other than that there are no qualifications to say he is much better than Shamet.

I'd want them both on my team, but if a cap situation came up where you had to trade Deuce and pay Shamet a third or half as much you'd be getting the same impact on the floor.

Shamet is actually better than Deuce at getting over screens on defense. He is 6'5" and completely ripped. His size and strength matches him up with almost anyone you put him on. Deuce is a shorty and is known to struggle when defending anyone over 6'5" so there's that.

On offense, Shamet is every bit Deuce's equal in decisive actions on offense. If anything, Shamet will probe defenses more than Deuce and find seams to either score in or to get off a pass.

Shamet's ball handling skills are at least equal to Deuce.

Deuce may still be improving though and Shamet is a fairly finished product.

But in terms of their roles, they are very similar and Shamet was the player who supercharged this team to go on its current run with his defensive intensity and clean offensive contributions.

If you can make a case for why Deuce is a much better player I'm open, but I see them as pretty much equals at this point with a size advantage to Shamet.

And Shamet has always been a vet min guy more or less, which is why I don't buy this idea that Deuce is going to get $15m contract. I think he'll get something around 3/30m.

nycericanguy wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:The kid is 20 and an opportunity is more valuable sometimes then some contracts. That he proved himself is one thing but he also owes the team the benefit of the doubt given few contending teams let rookies do what he is doing. With the right coach and staff in place that is very important than say go to a **** team with cap space and take nice 2 year-3 year deal. He is learning, surrounded by a mature group of players, and thriving. So rare this happens. Ask Frank. Ask Trier. Frank was drafted into chaos and he failed to execute. Trier was given a golden ticket/contract and was never to be seen again. Shit happens for many reasons. Not just Knicks either.

I know we all excited about his upside and if true the money will come regardless. Im not saying he ownes us a debt of graditude he should repay to his detriment. He, his agent, and the knicks had a plan and he fulfilled/executed his end wonderfully. Relationships that work are rare and I gather this FO, lead by an very smart former agent knows how to lay it all out to everyones benefit.

Maybe what we miss is we don't bring everyone back thus creating salary spots that can be filled. ON the surface Mitch and perhaps Josh could be gone. I don't know how our FO feels about Giannis and at what price. That itself will create massive change.

While there is value in running it back one more year with this core under Brown if there is still a higher ceiling with the same group, one can also say if we don't go to finals with Mitch and Josh, then maybe there is another path?
Same with KAT, OG and Mikal I suppose.

I don't see it, but all things I gather are on the table. That also includes at some level and in time Diawa becomming a really good trade chip. Kind of like Deuce with his current contract. Its another reason development is important. They create opportunities (IQ).

I thought the graphic during the SAS game sunday that Spurs get so much production from drafted players while the knicks hardly get any was interesting. They were not critical, just said there were different paths.

If you could choose only one of Deuce and Alvarado who you got? Deuce’s next contract is going to hurt, could be time to move on and stick with the veteran minimum guy. Besides we have a guy who’s not really a point guard but too small to be a shooting guard named Brunson. I love Deuce but sometimes you can’t keep everybody. Mitch on the other hand isn’t going anywhere. If someone is going to do a team friendly contest it’s him.

With the cap situation I don’t see us keeping our FRP either. Maybe we just kick it down the road because going over that second apron looks like a bad way to go.

I think the choice isn’t between Jose and Deuce, it’s between Shamet and Deuce. Both operate as 3 and D guards. Shamet can play up but Deuce provides more ball handling. Deuce is better overall but will get paid more. Outside of our starting 5, I think Alvarado, Mitch and Diawara come back and the final rotation spot is either shamet or Deuce as a 3&D guy. Then they will just fill out the roster on minimum contracts and rookie contracts. Ultimately the Deuce/ shamet decision comes down to money. If shamet is fine coming back cheap, great. If he wants to get paid, he’s probably gone and the Knicks shift focus to a deuce extension. This is all assuming no major trade. Obviously a trade changes things.

TBH, Shamet is as good as Deuce with more size for match-up purposes

I think Deuce is a much better player than Shamet. But I can see why the added size is important.

I'm a Deuce fan. He was blazing hot from 3 when he went down, but other than that there are no qualifications to say he is much better than Shamet.

I'd want them both on my team, but if a cap situation came up where you had to trade Deuce and pay Shamet a third or half as much you'd be getting the same impact on the floor.

Shamet is actually better than Deuce at getting over screens on defense. He is 6'5" and completely ripped. His size and strength matches him up with almost anyone you put him on. Deuce is a shorty and is known to struggle when defending anyone over 6'5" so there's that.

On offense, Shamet is every bit Deuce's equal in decisive actions on offense. If anything, Shamet will probe defenses more than Deuce and find seams to either score in or to get off a pass.

Shamet's ball handling skills are at least equal to Deuce.

Deuce may still be improving though and Shamet is a fairly finished product.

But in terms of their roles, they are very similar and Shamet was the player who supercharged this team to go on its current run with his defensive intensity and clean offensive contributions.

If you can make a case for why Deuce is a much better player I'm open, but I see them as pretty much equals at this point with a size advantage to Shamet.

And Shamet has always been a vet min guy more or less, which is why I don't buy this idea that Deuce is going to get $15m contract. I think he'll get something around 3/30m.

I guess it'll be a type of decision of what type of player you regard Deuce.

He is one of the best 3point shooters in the league. Period. He is a very good 2-way player, he plays very stout PoA defense. Playoff tested.

If you say had a big PG like DeJounte Murray or LaMelo Ball, you wouldn't want to invest in a $15+M 2-way player who kills it from distance? If he isn't a starter, he certainly is a very solid rotation player who could start in a pinch.

I don't think $10M is his range, it's much higher.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/07/how-teams-are-using-2025-26-mid-level-exceptions.html

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:The kid is 20 and an opportunity is more valuable sometimes then some contracts. That he proved himself is one thing but he also owes the team the benefit of the doubt given few contending teams let rookies do what he is doing. With the right coach and staff in place that is very important than say go to a **** team with cap space and take nice 2 year-3 year deal. He is learning, surrounded by a mature group of players, and thriving. So rare this happens. Ask Frank. Ask Trier. Frank was drafted into chaos and he failed to execute. Trier was given a golden ticket/contract and was never to be seen again. Shit happens for many reasons. Not just Knicks either.

I know we all excited about his upside and if true the money will come regardless. Im not saying he ownes us a debt of graditude he should repay to his detriment. He, his agent, and the knicks had a plan and he fulfilled/executed his end wonderfully. Relationships that work are rare and I gather this FO, lead by an very smart former agent knows how to lay it all out to everyones benefit.

Maybe what we miss is we don't bring everyone back thus creating salary spots that can be filled. ON the surface Mitch and perhaps Josh could be gone. I don't know how our FO feels about Giannis and at what price. That itself will create massive change.

While there is value in running it back one more year with this core under Brown if there is still a higher ceiling with the same group, one can also say if we don't go to finals with Mitch and Josh, then maybe there is another path?
Same with KAT, OG and Mikal I suppose.

I don't see it, but all things I gather are on the table. That also includes at some level and in time Diawa becomming a really good trade chip. Kind of like Deuce with his current contract. Its another reason development is important. They create opportunities (IQ).

I thought the graphic during the SAS game sunday that Spurs get so much production from drafted players while the knicks hardly get any was interesting. They were not critical, just said there were different paths.

If you could choose only one of Deuce and Alvarado who you got? Deuce’s next contract is going to hurt, could be time to move on and stick with the veteran minimum guy. Besides we have a guy who’s not really a point guard but too small to be a shooting guard named Brunson. I love Deuce but sometimes you can’t keep everybody. Mitch on the other hand isn’t going anywhere. If someone is going to do a team friendly contest it’s him.

With the cap situation I don’t see us keeping our FRP either. Maybe we just kick it down the road because going over that second apron looks like a bad way to go.

I think the choice isn’t between Jose and Deuce, it’s between Shamet and Deuce. Both operate as 3 and D guards. Shamet can play up but Deuce provides more ball handling. Deuce is better overall but will get paid more. Outside of our starting 5, I think Alvarado, Mitch and Diawara come back and the final rotation spot is either shamet or Deuce as a 3&D guy. Then they will just fill out the roster on minimum contracts and rookie contracts. Ultimately the Deuce/ shamet decision comes down to money. If shamet is fine coming back cheap, great. If he wants to get paid, he’s probably gone and the Knicks shift focus to a deuce extension. This is all assuming no major trade. Obviously a trade changes things.

TBH, Shamet is as good as Deuce with more size for match-up purposes

I think Deuce is a much better player than Shamet. But I can see why the added size is important.

I'm a Deuce fan. He was blazing hot from 3 when he went down, but other than that there are no qualifications to say he is much better than Shamet.

I'd want them both on my team, but if a cap situation came up where you had to trade Deuce and pay Shamet a third or half as much you'd be getting the same impact on the floor.

Shamet is actually better than Deuce at getting over screens on defense. He is 6'5" and completely ripped. His size and strength matches him up with almost anyone you put him on. Deuce is a shorty and is known to struggle when defending anyone over 6'5" so there's that.

On offense, Shamet is every bit Deuce's equal in decisive actions on offense. If anything, Shamet will probe defenses more than Deuce and find seams to either score in or to get off a pass.

Shamet's ball handling skills are at least equal to Deuce.

Deuce may still be improving though and Shamet is a fairly finished product.

But in terms of their roles, they are very similar and Shamet was the player who supercharged this team to go on its current run with his defensive intensity and clean offensive contributions.

If you can make a case for why Deuce is a much better player I'm open, but I see them as pretty much equals at this point with a size advantage to Shamet.

And Shamet has always been a vet min guy more or less, which is why I don't buy this idea that Deuce is going to get $15m contract. I think he'll get something around 3/30m.

I guess it'll be a type of decision of what type of player you regard Deuce.

He is one of the best 3point shooters in the league. Period. He is a very good 2-way player, he plays very stout PoA defense. Playoff tested.

If you say had a big PG like DeJounte Murray or LaMelo Ball, you wouldn't want to invest in a $15+M 2-way player who kills it from distance? If he isn't a starter, he certainly is a very solid rotation player who could start in a pinch.

I don't think $10M is his range, it's much higher.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/07/how-teams-are-using-2025-26-mid-level-exceptions.html

based on a 35 game sample size on one of the best teams in the NBA where he gets alot of open looks?

Because he doesn't have the quickest release and isn't great at creating his own shot.

Last season he was at 36.9%. He was career 36% coming into this season. He was one of the best this season no doubt, but it's such a small sample size.

I don't think its crazy he gets 3/45m... but that's definitely more the ceiling IMO. Someone earlier said he's getting 4/80m which is more what I'm referencing.

I think he'll get a 3 year deal around 10-15m per but probably closer to 10m.

arent contract negotiations great? Because I love DEuce.

No, as a GM I wouldn't only base my decision off of that 35 game sample size, and they don't. Deuce has some injury history too. He is 25.

What's the going rate for starters or 6th men type who are very good 2-way players? It's much higher than $10M. Also, it's a % of the cap that'll determine the number more than raw $, and at even $15M, it'll be less than 10% of cap for a near starter. That's really good value.

I'm guessing that's how GM's look at him. And then it's just opportunity. Near starters don't come on the market all the time, especially at 25 with playoff experience.

Today, the Pistons are paying Duncan Robinson $17M, LeVert $14M, and traded for Kevin Huerter at $18M. They will have gonzo cap space when Deuce hits the market. It would be completely worthwhile - because of the unique market circumstance - to offer Deuce $15M+.

And that's what Leon is up against. CHO, Detroit are 2 example of in conference teams that would probably do it.

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:The kid is 20 and an opportunity is more valuable sometimes then some contracts. That he proved himself is one thing but he also owes the team the benefit of the doubt given few contending teams let rookies do what he is doing. With the right coach and staff in place that is very important than say go to a **** team with cap space and take nice 2 year-3 year deal. He is learning, surrounded by a mature group of players, and thriving. So rare this happens. Ask Frank. Ask Trier. Frank was drafted into chaos and he failed to execute. Trier was given a golden ticket/contract and was never to be seen again. Shit happens for many reasons. Not just Knicks either.

I know we all excited about his upside and if true the money will come regardless. Im not saying he ownes us a debt of graditude he should repay to his detriment. He, his agent, and the knicks had a plan and he fulfilled/executed his end wonderfully. Relationships that work are rare and I gather this FO, lead by an very smart former agent knows how to lay it all out to everyones benefit.

Maybe what we miss is we don't bring everyone back thus creating salary spots that can be filled. ON the surface Mitch and perhaps Josh could be gone. I don't know how our FO feels about Giannis and at what price. That itself will create massive change.

While there is value in running it back one more year with this core under Brown if there is still a higher ceiling with the same group, one can also say if we don't go to finals with Mitch and Josh, then maybe there is another path?
Same with KAT, OG and Mikal I suppose.

I don't see it, but all things I gather are on the table. That also includes at some level and in time Diawa becomming a really good trade chip. Kind of like Deuce with his current contract. Its another reason development is important. They create opportunities (IQ).

I thought the graphic during the SAS game sunday that Spurs get so much production from drafted players while the knicks hardly get any was interesting. They were not critical, just said there were different paths.

If you could choose only one of Deuce and Alvarado who you got? Deuce’s next contract is going to hurt, could be time to move on and stick with the veteran minimum guy. Besides we have a guy who’s not really a point guard but too small to be a shooting guard named Brunson. I love Deuce but sometimes you can’t keep everybody. Mitch on the other hand isn’t going anywhere. If someone is going to do a team friendly contest it’s him.

With the cap situation I don’t see us keeping our FRP either. Maybe we just kick it down the road because going over that second apron looks like a bad way to go.

I think the choice isn’t between Jose and Deuce, it’s between Shamet and Deuce. Both operate as 3 and D guards. Shamet can play up but Deuce provides more ball handling. Deuce is better overall but will get paid more. Outside of our starting 5, I think Alvarado, Mitch and Diawara come back and the final rotation spot is either shamet or Deuce as a 3&D guy. Then they will just fill out the roster on minimum contracts and rookie contracts. Ultimately the Deuce/ shamet decision comes down to money. If shamet is fine coming back cheap, great. If he wants to get paid, he’s probably gone and the Knicks shift focus to a deuce extension. This is all assuming no major trade. Obviously a trade changes things.

TBH, Shamet is as good as Deuce with more size for match-up purposes

I think Deuce is a much better player than Shamet. But I can see why the added size is important.

I'm a Deuce fan. He was blazing hot from 3 when he went down, but other than that there are no qualifications to say he is much better than Shamet.

I'd want them both on my team, but if a cap situation came up where you had to trade Deuce and pay Shamet a third or half as much you'd be getting the same impact on the floor.

Shamet is actually better than Deuce at getting over screens on defense. He is 6'5" and completely ripped. His size and strength matches him up with almost anyone you put him on. Deuce is a shorty and is known to struggle when defending anyone over 6'5" so there's that.

On offense, Shamet is every bit Deuce's equal in decisive actions on offense. If anything, Shamet will probe defenses more than Deuce and find seams to either score in or to get off a pass.

Shamet's ball handling skills are at least equal to Deuce.

Deuce may still be improving though and Shamet is a fairly finished product.

But in terms of their roles, they are very similar and Shamet was the player who supercharged this team to go on its current run with his defensive intensity and clean offensive contributions.

If you can make a case for why Deuce is a much better player I'm open, but I see them as pretty much equals at this point with a size advantage to Shamet.

And Shamet has always been a vet min guy more or less, which is why I don't buy this idea that Deuce is going to get $15m contract. I think he'll get something around 3/30m.

I guess it'll be a type of decision of what type of player you regard Deuce.

He is one of the best 3point shooters in the league. Period. He is a very good 2-way player, he plays very stout PoA defense. Playoff tested.

If you say had a big PG like DeJounte Murray or LaMelo Ball, you wouldn't want to invest in a $15+M 2-way player who kills it from distance? If he isn't a starter, he certainly is a very solid rotation player who could start in a pinch.

I don't think $10M is his range, it's much higher.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/07/how-teams-are-using-2025-26-mid-level-exceptions.html

based on a 35 game sample size on one of the best teams in the NBA where he gets alot of open looks?

Because he doesn't have the quickest release and isn't great at creating his own shot.

Last season he was at 36.9%. He was career 36% coming into this season. He was one of the best this season no doubt, but it's such a small sample size.

I don't think its crazy he gets 3/45m... but that's definitely more the ceiling IMO. Someone earlier said he's getting 4/80m which is more what I'm referencing.

I think he'll get a 3 year deal around 10-15m per but probably closer to 10m.

arent contract negotiations great? Because I love DEuce.

No, as a GM I wouldn't only base my decision off of that 35 game sample size, and they don't. Deuce has some injury history too. He is 25.

What's the going rate for starters or 6th men type who are very good 2-way players? It's much higher than $10M. Also, it's a % of the cap that'll determine the number more than raw $, and at even $15M, it'll be less than 10% of cap for a near starter. That's really good value.

I'm guessing that's how GM's look at him. And then it's just opportunity. Near starters don't come on the market all the time, especially at 25 with playoff experience.

Today, the Pistons are paying Duncan Robinson $17M, LeVert $14M, and traded for Kevin Huerter at $18M. They will have gonzo cap space when Deuce hits the market. It would be completely worthwhile - because of the unique market circumstance - to offer Deuce $15M+.

And that's what Leon is up against. CHO, Detroit are 2 example of in conference teams that would probably do it.

Deuce has a couple of things going against him though, he's 6'2 but not a PG, and the injury history.

So how many of those guys are 6'2? If he was 6'6 then $15-20m all day.

Same reason Alvarado only makes $4m. He's a PG but doesn't have the size or shooting.

Size matters. Even Shamet has been underpaid in his career because he's "only" 6'5" and not really a PG either.

but yes i can see DET as a fit

Deuce is definitely not a PG. He fits really well next to a big PG. He is also a PoA defender at the playoff level. His size doesn't really matter because of his strength level, wingspan, and screen navigation with the ability to spread the floor at near elite levels, even in a 35 game span.

This is a bit of a unique market value determination, cause those types of players don't come on the market too often. And you need to overpay in those circumstances, like NY did with Mikal kinda sorta.

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Rookie wrote:

Nalod wrote:The kid is 20 and an opportunity is more valuable sometimes then some contracts. That he proved himself is one thing but he also owes the team the benefit of the doubt given few contending teams let rookies do what he is doing. With the right coach and staff in place that is very important than say go to a **** team with cap space and take nice 2 year-3 year deal. He is learning, surrounded by a mature group of players, and thriving. So rare this happens. Ask Frank. Ask Trier. Frank was drafted into chaos and he failed to execute. Trier was given a golden ticket/contract and was never to be seen again. Shit happens for many reasons. Not just Knicks either.

I know we all excited about his upside and if true the money will come regardless. Im not saying he ownes us a debt of graditude he should repay to his detriment. He, his agent, and the knicks had a plan and he fulfilled/executed his end wonderfully. Relationships that work are rare and I gather this FO, lead by an very smart former agent knows how to lay it all out to everyones benefit.

Maybe what we miss is we don't bring everyone back thus creating salary spots that can be filled. ON the surface Mitch and perhaps Josh could be gone. I don't know how our FO feels about Giannis and at what price. That itself will create massive change.

While there is value in running it back one more year with this core under Brown if there is still a higher ceiling with the same group, one can also say if we don't go to finals with Mitch and Josh, then maybe there is another path?
Same with KAT, OG and Mikal I suppose.

I don't see it, but all things I gather are on the table. That also includes at some level and in time Diawa becomming a really good trade chip. Kind of like Deuce with his current contract. Its another reason development is important. They create opportunities (IQ).

I thought the graphic during the SAS game sunday that Spurs get so much production from drafted players while the knicks hardly get any was interesting. They were not critical, just said there were different paths.

With the cap situation I don’t see us keeping our FRP either. Maybe we just kick it down the road because going over that second apron looks like a bad way to go.

I said this in another thread. Knicks have TOO MANY young players, with high potential, who would be free agents this Summer.

Diawara
Hukporti
McCullar
Jamison

Out of this group, the only one I would be "kind of" ok of letting go is Jamison but Huk, McCullar and Diawara are the next wave that can step up and replace, Mitch, Hart and OG. I think the Knicks FO know this too and, if there isn't a play for Giannis this off season, I can see Rose trading ALL of '26 draft for future picks in order to stay under the cap in order to keep our guys

Hukporti is not an essential must keep player. He's a nice insurance player to have to see if he gets better, but he has not taken a considerable leap to consider him a priority.

McCullar most certainly is. He's waiting his turn and is slept on right now, but the guy is a defensive stud with good fundamentals on both ends of the court. I expect the FO to try and keep him.

I think hukporti has been pretty bad. He seems to have regressed from his rookie year prior to that injury. It’s tough to keep him signed since he’s not eligible for a second round exception deal. There’s always going to be better bigs available for the minimum. As for McCullar, I like him. He brings good energy. But I’m concerned about the lack of shooting or any particular skill on the offensive end. The only true NBA players we have in our young core are Diawara and Kolek. Kolek is worth keeping as a 3rd string PG. And of course Diawara is a stud.

McCullar has offensive skills. He can shoot, he has a handle, he can create and he can dime. He is an NBA player.

And he is an elite defender.

Eventually he will need to show some of those things though. He never lit up summer league or Westchester. His proven skills are limited to defensive effort right now.

Yes he did. You missed it

Come on. He’s shooting below 40% from the field and below 25% from 3pt in his gleague career. It’s only 22 games but still a decent sample size. He is not shooting the ball well in his limited nba career. In summer league he did not do much offensively. As a college player he was good as a super-senior but not a standout. I did not miss anything. He simply hasn’t proven he can shoot yet. He’s an energy guy. Can’t pretend he’s something he’s not. Doesn’t mean he’s not worth keeping around. He is.

martin wrote:2 recent contracts given to Gabe Vincent and Max Strus 3 years ago, within the Deuce performance range?

One got 3/$33M, the other 4/$63M

I think the injury helps us with his contract negotiations. Silver lining. I also think we are looking at mid level exception range for both deuce and Mitch. So around 15M per year. Have to ask what teams would offer either player more than that, given the new CBA and apron concerns.