Nalod wrote:Its not what Ainge wants. Its how important is Kessler to us for our objectives. If he is the missing piece then Knicks pay what he is worth to us.
For a few years we been adding to the war chest for this moment. We spend big on Mikal, and perhaps we now have just a bit more to go.
If Kolek is thought to step over Duece then he is expendable. Is Deuce worth a mid-late 1st pick for a team that needs him now? is that what Ainge wants?
Yeah, I do this. Its not about market value, its knicks value and if our FO thinks we need Kessler than we pay. If I know this, Ainge knows this and he understand not all teams will pay. Its not that he is stupid greedy, he is being smart.

I think most of this is wrong.

EwingsGlass wrote:

MS wrote:Do they trade McBride for him straight up and sign Lowry?

Deuce is a really tough guy to lose because he's scratching the surface and his defense is so elite and he's a worker and is one the best contract in the league. I don't want to move the guy.

Kessler is worth more than a 1st round pick at this point, because of his elite shot blocking. He's also a great replacement for Mitch at some point and the Knicks will have flexibility if they decide to make a trade.

I don’t think I would. I’m at like 2 seconds and the rights to Sergio Llull. Guy has two years before RFA. I know we have positional need, but I think Deuce has the higher value contract. I think the price will drop on Kessler.

Which part do you not agree with me on?

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Its not what Ainge wants. Its how important is Kessler to us for our objectives. If he is the missing piece then Knicks pay what he is worth to us.
For a few years we been adding to the war chest for this moment. We spend big on Mikal, and perhaps we now have just a bit more to go.
If Kolek is thought to step over Duece then he is expendable. Is Deuce worth a mid-late 1st pick for a team that needs him now? is that what Ainge wants?
Yeah, I do this. Its not about market value, its knicks value and if our FO thinks we need Kessler than we pay. If I know this, Ainge knows this and he understand not all teams will pay. Its not that he is stupid greedy, he is being smart.

I think this is exactly right.

And NY knows this too *and* they have walked away when the price is not correct, even under the pressure of deep "hot seat" NY media style scrutiny, they don't care what anyone else thinks. My sense is the NY FO has a good feel for what they understand to be good exchange value, and if it is not met, they easily walk because they are patient. From their side of things, they will absolutely ask for exactly the maximum of what they can get while making sure the core of what they are after is the first priority in the back and forth.

Leon knows he does not need to solve this problem today and has until Feb to make his move.

Agree with both posts. Ainge probably through that he could wait until Leon and co. folded like a cheap suit. If anything the aborted Mitchell trade might make Ainge less willing to play the long game with the Knicks.

I think Ainge did quite well with the DM trade and in the long run he did resign with Cavs.
Our need to pony up the price was far less when we signed Brunson. We had hoped he'd be good with us. Goodness me, he exceeded that!!!
So FO was correct but not because Ainge was greedy horder, but our needs shifted. Danny created a market for bidding and Cav's paid it.
Danny if he wants to trade Lauri Markkenen or Kessler would do well to create a market with bidders. He does not have to trade either. But if he does not want to lock into Markkenen I'd think that is a priority, then Kessler.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Its not what Ainge wants. Its how important is Kessler to us for our objectives. If he is the missing piece then Knicks pay what he is worth to us.
For a few years we been adding to the war chest for this moment. We spend big on Mikal, and perhaps we now have just a bit more to go.
If Kolek is thought to step over Duece then he is expendable. Is Deuce worth a mid-late 1st pick for a team that needs him now? is that what Ainge wants?
Yeah, I do this. Its not about market value, its knicks value and if our FO thinks we need Kessler than we pay. If I know this, Ainge knows this and he understand not all teams will pay. Its not that he is stupid greedy, he is being smart.

I think this is exactly right.

And NY knows this too *and* they have walked away when the price is not correct, even under the pressure of deep "hot seat" NY media style scrutiny, they don't care what anyone else thinks. My sense is the NY FO has a good feel for what they understand to be good exchange value, and if it is not met, they easily walk because they are patient. From their side of things, they will absolutely ask for exactly the maximum of what they can get while making sure the core of what they are after is the first priority in the back and forth.

Leon knows he does not need to solve this problem today and has until Feb to make his move.

Agree with both posts. Ainge probably through that he could wait until Leon and co. folded like a cheap suit. If anything the aborted Mitchell trade might make Ainge less willing to play the long game with the Knicks.

I think Ainge did quite well with the DM trade and in the long run he did resign with Cavs.
Our need to pony up the price was far less when we signed Brunson. We had hoped he'd be good with us. Goodness me, he exceeded that!!!
So FO was correct but not because Ainge was greedy horder, but our needs shifted. Danny created a market for bidding and Cav's paid it.
Danny if he wants to trade Lauri Markkenen or Kessler would do well to create a market with bidders. He does not have to trade either. But if he does not want to lock into Markkenen I'd think that is a priority, then Kessler.

Ainge did very well. Im guessing that given Mitchell’s numbers, DM’s NY roots, and his stating that he wanted to be a Knick, Ainge believed that it would have greased the wheels so to speak. But Rose wisely ignored all that. I was against the trade, mostly because I saw a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt as a bad fit.

Kessler’s style of play fits the Knicks. I don’t know if he fits Utah of if Utah even has an identity or style of play. That roster is a mess. I have no idea if they are tanking. They are in no man’s land for a rebuild. They don’t suck enough and teams whose picks they own aren’t trending towards the lottery either. If I were the owner in Utah I’d be asking what’s the plan here and when are we turning this thing around

Rookie wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Its not what Ainge wants. Its how important is Kessler to us for our objectives. If he is the missing piece then Knicks pay what he is worth to us.
For a few years we been adding to the war chest for this moment. We spend big on Mikal, and perhaps we now have just a bit more to go.
If Kolek is thought to step over Duece then he is expendable. Is Deuce worth a mid-late 1st pick for a team that needs him now? is that what Ainge wants?
Yeah, I do this. Its not about market value, its knicks value and if our FO thinks we need Kessler than we pay. If I know this, Ainge knows this and he understand not all teams will pay. Its not that he is stupid greedy, he is being smart.

I think this is exactly right.

And NY knows this too *and* they have walked away when the price is not correct, even under the pressure of deep "hot seat" NY media style scrutiny, they don't care what anyone else thinks. My sense is the NY FO has a good feel for what they understand to be good exchange value, and if it is not met, they easily walk because they are patient. From their side of things, they will absolutely ask for exactly the maximum of what they can get while making sure the core of what they are after is the first priority in the back and forth.

Leon knows he does not need to solve this problem today and has until Feb to make his move.

Agree with both posts. Ainge probably through that he could wait until Leon and co. folded like a cheap suit. If anything the aborted Mitchell trade might make Ainge less willing to play the long game with the Knicks.

I think Ainge did quite well with the DM trade and in the long run he did resign with Cavs.
Our need to pony up the price was far less when we signed Brunson. We had hoped he'd be good with us. Goodness me, he exceeded that!!!
So FO was correct but not because Ainge was greedy horder, but our needs shifted. Danny created a market for bidding and Cav's paid it.
Danny if he wants to trade Lauri Markkenen or Kessler would do well to create a market with bidders. He does not have to trade either. But if he does not want to lock into Markkenen I'd think that is a priority, then Kessler.

Ainge did very well. Im guessing that given Mitchell’s numbers, DM’s NY roots, and his stating that he wanted to be a Knick, Ainge believed that it would have greased the wheels so to speak. But Rose wisely ignored all that. I was against the trade, mostly because I saw a Brunson/Mitchell backcourt as a bad fit.

Kessler’s style of play fits the Knicks. I don’t know if he fits Utah of if Utah even has an identity or style of play. That roster is a mess. I have no idea if they are tanking. They are in no man’s land for a rebuild. They don’t suck enough and teams whose picks they own aren’t trending towards the lottery either. If I were the owner in Utah I’d be asking what’s the plan here and when are we turning this thing around

The owner hired ainge and very well could be the one dictating what they want to do.
Ainge has been there since December of 2021. So basically 2.5 years. Not very long really. I don't know what the teams plans are or how they are going about building the foundation. Ainge issues are the team as you say has not tanked enough. Will Hardy has done "too good a job".
Im not going to read this article but if one wants to know this is a good primer: https://dailyutahchronicle.com/2023/07/14/danny-ainge-transformed-utah-jazz/

As a fan I am not to assume because I don't understand what they are doing mean they don't have a plan. Also the owner very will might have hired Ainge to attempt to do it for him. I do know that not all plans execute properly. Kessler was a better pro than thought and Markeenen turned into an allstar! What a royal **** up!! LOL

ToddTT wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Kessler would be the perfect kind of fit here. Costs matter, but I would lock it up if we could. Out of young centers, I think only Alperun Sengun would possibly be a better fit. This squad would make Sengun look like Jokic.

Feel like the Knicks will play the long game with Kessler, same as they did with OG and Mikal. He fits too well with what they do.

I tend to agree.

There is an obvious symmetry in the Knicks current starters, one that Randle almost signals he is not part of.

If you look at Brunson and Bridges, their shot charts are near mirrors of each other in their most efficient locations. Both very efficient from three at the top right and left and opposite corners with Brunson finishing his midrange at the top of the key and bridges at the hoops. [I am ignoring Bridges shot chart as lead Net, that’s not an accurate idea of what his role would be here]

If you look at DDV and OG, the same is also true. Both are strong from three from the top of the three, on opposite sides to the same corner.

It’s like these 4 were made to share the court in a motion offense. Randle’s passing as a big man is near elite. When he is a willing participant. I can imagine a world where these 5 share the court and OG defends the center.

A guy like Kessler would feast in a 4-1 motion with Brunson, DDV, Bridges and OG. Like insane synergy.

I’m not trying to implicate Randle, it’s just that his shot chart is a lot less efficient at times. And DDV had an insane year last year. If you go back to one of Randle’s more efficient years, (like I did with Bridges), it can work to.

January looked pretty good too.

Brunson and Randle played a year and a half together and looked fine. We don’t need to salary dump Randle. Is it possible he throws a hissy fit at some point next season because he isn’t averaging unlimited shot attempts and bc 35-40 minutes a night? Maybe but I doubt it and ultimately it’s not a big deal plus we need depth

martin wrote:In my mind, Knicks value Kessler more than Utah values having Deuce as a return. They’d rather have picks and so Knicks need to find those picks from a team that values deuce as a player and contract.

I’m starting to understand how Ainge evaluates assets. If he can’t multiply Kessler’s value he won’t trade him. If he came in to Utah valued at 1 FRP then for a trade to take place it will take 2 FRP’s. He’s going to keep moving and multiplying assets until he can manufacture a home run deal where he brings in a Garnet/Allen

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:Anyone for some clicks?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/nba_newyork/status/1810821715951231160

Can we trade OG for KAT? Keep Julius.

This is not even a legit rumor this is CP talking caca.