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The Two star approach vs. the 3 starphuch….
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newyorknewyork
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11/18/2023  11:38 AM
nycericanguy wrote:you look at this roster, and we will have probably 2 first round picks this summer along with 2nd round picks. we are so flush with assets that we could easily deal Grimes and those 2 firsts and not mortgage the future. theres simply no room for 2-3 more young guys on this team. not to mention we have Rokas overseas.


We would be overpaying for Lavine's services. At $40-50mil per that player needs to be an elite impact 2-way franchise player or very close to it. Especially on this Knicks roster since he won't be getting the same shot volume with Brunson, RJ, Randle & IQ in the fold. And all he has is his offensive output.

Due to the lack of spacing from our current frontcourt. Lavine has the ball more as a creator we would need Randle to stay out on the perimeter more this reducing his effectiveness. Or Lavine shifts to more of the catch and shoot option to open the paint for Randle. But we would be paying $40-$50mil for that. We have the slowest pace in the NBA and run a ton of iso ball. Shot volume to support 5 scorers won't be there.

The reason why Grimes starts over IQ though IQ is the better overall player is because with Brunson, RJ, Randle. Grimes makes more sense for fit. He gives 100% effort on defense ala doing things without the ball in his hands. And offers a quality catch and shoot option without demanding shots. As with Brunson, RJ, Randle there are only so many touches to go around. IQ then supplements a 4th scoring option and gives the 2nd unit the needed offensive juice.

If we were to take a $40-$50mil risk on a SG upgrade. The best fit would be a Paul George on a 2 yr ext. Lavine best fit is a stud defensive team that needs a 2nd player to carry heavy offensive load. We don't need someone to carry offensive load. We need upgraded 2-way players.

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nycericanguy
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11/18/2023  12:21 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:you look at this roster, and we will have probably 2 first round picks this summer along with 2nd round picks. we are so flush with assets that we could easily deal Grimes and those 2 firsts and not mortgage the future. theres simply no room for 2-3 more young guys on this team. not to mention we have Rokas overseas.


We would be overpaying for Lavine's services. At $40-50mil per that player needs to be an elite impact 2-way franchise player or very close to it. Especially on this Knicks roster since he won't be getting the same shot volume with Brunson, RJ, Randle & IQ in the fold. And all he has is his offensive output.

Due to the lack of spacing from our current frontcourt. Lavine has the ball more as a creator we would need Randle to stay out on the perimeter more this reducing his effectiveness. Or Lavine shifts to more of the catch and shoot option to open the paint for Randle. But we would be paying $40-$50mil for that. We have the slowest pace in the NBA and run a ton of iso ball. Shot volume to support 5 scorers won't be there.

The reason why Grimes starts over IQ though IQ is the better overall player is because with Brunson, RJ, Randle. Grimes makes more sense for fit. He gives 100% effort on defense ala doing things without the ball in his hands. And offers a quality catch and shoot option without demanding shots. As with Brunson, RJ, Randle there are only so many touches to go around. IQ then supplements a 4th scoring option and gives the 2nd unit the needed offensive juice.

If we were to take a $40-$50mil risk on a SG upgrade. The best fit would be a Paul George on a 2 yr ext. Lavine best fit is a stud defensive team that needs a 2nd player to carry heavy offensive load. We don't need someone to carry offensive load. We need upgraded 2-way players.

what you're saying makes sense in the regular season, but playoffs exposed that yes we absolutely need someone to carry an offensive load outside of Brunson.
newyorknewyork
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11/18/2023  1:04 PM
nycericanguy wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:you look at this roster, and we will have probably 2 first round picks this summer along with 2nd round picks. we are so flush with assets that we could easily deal Grimes and those 2 firsts and not mortgage the future. theres simply no room for 2-3 more young guys on this team. not to mention we have Rokas overseas.


We would be overpaying for Lavine's services. At $40-50mil per that player needs to be an elite impact 2-way franchise player or very close to it. Especially on this Knicks roster since he won't be getting the same shot volume with Brunson, RJ, Randle & IQ in the fold. And all he has is his offensive output.

Due to the lack of spacing from our current frontcourt. Lavine has the ball more as a creator we would need Randle to stay out on the perimeter more this reducing his effectiveness. Or Lavine shifts to more of the catch and shoot option to open the paint for Randle. But we would be paying $40-$50mil for that. We have the slowest pace in the NBA and run a ton of iso ball. Shot volume to support 5 scorers won't be there.

The reason why Grimes starts over IQ though IQ is the better overall player is because with Brunson, RJ, Randle. Grimes makes more sense for fit. He gives 100% effort on defense ala doing things without the ball in his hands. And offers a quality catch and shoot option without demanding shots. As with Brunson, RJ, Randle there are only so many touches to go around. IQ then supplements a 4th scoring option and gives the 2nd unit the needed offensive juice.

If we were to take a $40-$50mil risk on a SG upgrade. The best fit would be a Paul George on a 2 yr ext. Lavine best fit is a stud defensive team that needs a 2nd player to carry heavy offensive load. We don't need someone to carry offensive load. We need upgraded 2-way players.

what you're saying makes sense in the regular season, but playoffs exposed that yes we absolutely need someone to carry an offensive load outside of Brunson.

Current roster has been together for one season for one. Knicks also need to offer better spacing within the frontcourt in order to make Brunson, RJ, Randles, IQs jobs easier. Which will enhance 4th quarter crunch time pressure situations. Behind Mitch and Randle we need a PF/C or 2 that can stretch the floor and hit FTs. That should be the first target before investing in such a huge financial and fit risk.

Side bar Isaac needs to be targeted with a draft pick from the war chest. Absolute perfect player to fill that 3/4 spot for this team. Health will always be a concern but his skill set is extremely rare and perfect fit. Not to mention the potential if he actually can put 50-60 games in.

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Nalod
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11/18/2023  3:26 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:you look at this roster, and we will have probably 2 first round picks this summer along with 2nd round picks. we are so flush with assets that we could easily deal Grimes and those 2 firsts and not mortgage the future. theres simply no room for 2-3 more young guys on this team. not to mention we have Rokas overseas.


We would be overpaying for Lavine's services. At $40-50mil per that player needs to be an elite impact 2-way franchise player or very close to it. Especially on this Knicks roster since he won't be getting the same shot volume with Brunson, RJ, Randle & IQ in the fold. And all he has is his offensive output.

Due to the lack of spacing from our current frontcourt. Lavine has the ball more as a creator we would need Randle to stay out on the perimeter more this reducing his effectiveness. Or Lavine shifts to more of the catch and shoot option to open the paint for Randle. But we would be paying $40-$50mil for that. We have the slowest pace in the NBA and run a ton of iso ball. Shot volume to support 5 scorers won't be there.

The reason why Grimes starts over IQ though IQ is the better overall player is because with Brunson, RJ, Randle. Grimes makes more sense for fit. He gives 100% effort on defense ala doing things without the ball in his hands. And offers a quality catch and shoot option without demanding shots. As with Brunson, RJ, Randle there are only so many touches to go around. IQ then supplements a 4th scoring option and gives the 2nd unit the needed offensive juice.

If we were to take a $40-$50mil risk on a SG upgrade. The best fit would be a Paul George on a 2 yr ext. Lavine best fit is a stud defensive team that needs a 2nd player to carry heavy offensive load. We don't need someone to carry offensive load. We need upgraded 2-way players.


Your assuming all of "Brunson, RJ, Randle & IQ" are all on the team still if Lavine is bought in?
If rumors are true, he does not want any part of NYC. Perhaps he has an angle towards LakerLand. If your a SoCal guy, and have his money its a good place to be.
newyorknewyork
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11/18/2023  7:11 PM
Nalod wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:you look at this roster, and we will have probably 2 first round picks this summer along with 2nd round picks. we are so flush with assets that we could easily deal Grimes and those 2 firsts and not mortgage the future. theres simply no room for 2-3 more young guys on this team. not to mention we have Rokas overseas.


We would be overpaying for Lavine's services. At $40-50mil per that player needs to be an elite impact 2-way franchise player or very close to it. Especially on this Knicks roster since he won't be getting the same shot volume with Brunson, RJ, Randle & IQ in the fold. And all he has is his offensive output.

Due to the lack of spacing from our current frontcourt. Lavine has the ball more as a creator we would need Randle to stay out on the perimeter more this reducing his effectiveness. Or Lavine shifts to more of the catch and shoot option to open the paint for Randle. But we would be paying $40-$50mil for that. We have the slowest pace in the NBA and run a ton of iso ball. Shot volume to support 5 scorers won't be there.

The reason why Grimes starts over IQ though IQ is the better overall player is because with Brunson, RJ, Randle. Grimes makes more sense for fit. He gives 100% effort on defense ala doing things without the ball in his hands. And offers a quality catch and shoot option without demanding shots. As with Brunson, RJ, Randle there are only so many touches to go around. IQ then supplements a 4th scoring option and gives the 2nd unit the needed offensive juice.

If we were to take a $40-$50mil risk on a SG upgrade. The best fit would be a Paul George on a 2 yr ext. Lavine best fit is a stud defensive team that needs a 2nd player to carry heavy offensive load. We don't need someone to carry offensive load. We need upgraded 2-way players.


Your assuming all of "Brunson, RJ, Randle & IQ" are all on the team still if Lavine is bought in?
If rumors are true, he does not want any part of NYC. Perhaps he has an angle towards LakerLand. If your a SoCal guy, and have his money its a good place to be.

We were going by nycericanguy's trade proposal earlier in the thread. And it's more about the principal and theory of it than Lavine himself. Since Lavine already stated he didn't want NY. The idea is also around bringing in Lavine in hopes that he would help get the Knicks to the next level. So bringing him in without having to move out any of our top 4 offensive contributors.

Would literally be a starphuch move which you coined the phrase for. Should be more focused on seeing if he can swap Hartenstein out for a 2nd or 2(probably 2 knowing Ainge) for Kelly Olynyk.

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Philc1
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11/19/2023  5:58 AM
nycericanguy wrote:
martin wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:
martin wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:
VDesai wrote:If Randle/Brunson shooting % normalize and RJ sustains or even experiences a slight drop off, we have the potential for 3 "stars," with terrific depth. Not sure what makes a star these days, but all 3 guys should be able to average 20ppg - and if they can do so at 45% FG% and around 36%+ from 3 we are in good shape. Especially if Randle tosses in 9-10 rpg 4-5 apg and Brunson 6-7 apg.

the issue is do we trust Randle and RJ to be "stars" come playoff time?

RJ showed great potential last season so I trust him to be good, but he's not a great shot creator under pressure.

I think we still lack a 2nd elite scorer and shooting. I think that's where a guy like Lavine could really help.

To be fair, I don't think the Knicks have 1 ball handler that I would really trust under pressure. IQ, Brunson are not at that level.

Teams like Miami and Boston are always going to give Knicks fits because of that IMO

i mean those are great defensive teams, they are going to give most teams fits.

but I think we beat MIA last year if we had a guy like Lavine. it was scoring and shooting more than forced TO's that really hurt us against MIA.

haha you just backdoor'ed your Lavine trade. love it

And yes, just against the elite teams.

Lavine or DM is what this team needs, but Lavine probably costs less.

If we are trading the farm I want DM. And DM wants to come here. The bulls are going to ask for way too much for Lavine
Philc1
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11/19/2023  5:59 AM
Panos wrote:I like that we have players on value contracts. I'm not down for Lavine making twice as much as JB, JR and/or RJ. At some level, doesn't that become a chemistry thing? Imagine you have Lavine clocking $50M and JR is making $25M. Is there not going to be resentment? I don't know. I'd be patient and only blow that load if its a real MVP caliber player, which Lavine is not.

Bring in the Greek and I'm all in

The Greek is going to the Lakers. Silver will figure something out
Philc1
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11/19/2023  6:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/19/2023  6:01 AM
nycericanguy wrote:you look at this roster, and we will have probably 2 first round picks this summer along with 2nd round picks. we are so flush with assets that we could easily deal Grimes and those 2 firsts and not mortgage the future. theres simply no room for 2-3 more young guys on this team. not to mention we have Rokas overseas.

I think we trade IQ for future picks at the deadline and get a legit backup PF to finish out the season. We have a glut of Shooting Guards on the roster


The more picks the better because even if you can use those to put in a package for a superstar like Mitchell or Giannis
newyorknewyork
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11/19/2023  11:38 AM
Philc1 wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:you look at this roster, and we will have probably 2 first round picks this summer along with 2nd round picks. we are so flush with assets that we could easily deal Grimes and those 2 firsts and not mortgage the future. theres simply no room for 2-3 more young guys on this team. not to mention we have Rokas overseas.

I think we trade IQ for future picks at the deadline and get a legit backup PF to finish out the season. We have a glut of Shooting Guards on the roster


The more picks the better because even if you can use those to put in a package for a superstar like Mitchell or Giannis

I don't see it. If Knicks move IQ its for a superstar, or an S&T in the offseason. Other than that they will keep IQ and try to push as far into the playoffs as possible this season.

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Nalod
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11/19/2023  12:24 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:you look at this roster, and we will have probably 2 first round picks this summer along with 2nd round picks. we are so flush with assets that we could easily deal Grimes and those 2 firsts and not mortgage the future. theres simply no room for 2-3 more young guys on this team. not to mention we have Rokas overseas.

I think we trade IQ for future picks at the deadline and get a legit backup PF to finish out the season. We have a glut of Shooting Guards on the roster


The more picks the better because even if you can use those to put in a package for a superstar like Mitchell or Giannis

I don't see it. If Knicks move IQ its for a superstar, or an S&T in the offseason. Other than that they will keep IQ and try to push as far into the playoffs as possible this season.

Or something in between?
Do they do sign and trades anymore??
newyorknewyork
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11/19/2023  1:07 PM
Nalod wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
nycericanguy wrote:you look at this roster, and we will have probably 2 first round picks this summer along with 2nd round picks. we are so flush with assets that we could easily deal Grimes and those 2 firsts and not mortgage the future. theres simply no room for 2-3 more young guys on this team. not to mention we have Rokas overseas.

I think we trade IQ for future picks at the deadline and get a legit backup PF to finish out the season. We have a glut of Shooting Guards on the roster


The more picks the better because even if you can use those to put in a package for a superstar like Mitchell or Giannis

I don't see it. If Knicks move IQ its for a superstar, or an S&T in the offseason. Other than that they will keep IQ and try to push as far into the playoffs as possible this season.

Or something in between?
Do they do sign and trades anymore??

Anything is possible. Only going by the odds.
I'm sure they do. Knicks aren't gonna lose IQ for nothing or move him for picks this season when trying to compete. He plays a key role for the current team offering someone that can create offense play defense, and space the floor.

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martin
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11/20/2023  7:27 PM
Fair take

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ToddTT
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11/20/2023  7:37 PM
martin wrote:Fair take

I'm a huge fan of Lavine. Mainly because he has said he does not want to play in NY.

Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
martin
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11/20/2023  8:16 PM
ToddTT wrote:
martin wrote:Fair take

I'm a huge fan of Lavine. Mainly because he has said he does not want to play in NY.

lol

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