stillafan wrote:I have to add this, i've been discussing year one primarily, year two no matter how I feel it's successful and that is the bottom line.

But i'm not sure what is refreshing when a FO inherits a team that finished as the 4th seed that season, and yet had 63m in cap and spent it on Fourn, Rose, Kemba and Noel, all negativs.

It's your come to Alba time because you have your facts wrong and need to reevaluate your thinking.

Leon Rose took over on March 2 of 2020 with 5 games left in the season of a 21-45 campaign, good for 12th in the East. His first move was hiring Thibs. He drafted Obi and IQ, then signed Burks Bullock and Noel and traded for Rose his first season.

Second season he drafted Grimes and McBride, resigned Noel Burks Rose, and signed Fournier and Kemba and extended Randle.

Third season he signed Brunson and Hartenstein and extended Robinson and Barrett, and traded for Hart.

Fourth offseason he signed DDV.

Knicks missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons prior to his arrival and have made the playoffs 2/3 since. The previous 3 seasons they won .293 of games, under Rose .531 an 81% improvement. They also have more first round picks in the bank than anytime I can remember.

Anyway you slice it Knicks present and future have improved since Rose and Co took over.

gradyandrew wrote:

stillafan wrote:I have to add this, i've been discussing year one primarily, year two no matter how I feel it's successful and that is the bottom line.

But i'm not sure what is refreshing when a FO inherits a team that finished as the 4th seed that season, and yet had 63m in cap and spent it on Fourn, Rose, Kemba and Noel, all negativs.

It's your come to Alba time because you have your facts wrong and need to reevaluate your thinking.

Leon Rose took over on March 2 of 2020 with 5 games left in the season of a 21-45 campaign, good for 12th in the East. His first move was hiring Thibs. He drafted Obi and IQ, then signed Burks Bullock and Noel and traded for Rose his first season.

Second season he drafted Grimes and McBride, resigned Noel Burks Rose, and signed Fournier and Kemba and extended Randle.

Third season he signed Brunson and Hartenstein and extended Robinson and Barrett, and traded for Hart.

Fourth offseason he signed DDV.

Knicks missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons prior to his arrival and have made the playoffs 2/3 since. The previous 3 seasons they won .293 of games, under Rose .531 an 81% improvement. They also have more first round picks in the bank than anytime I can remember.

Anyway you slice it Knicks present and future have improved since Rose and Co took over.

But....lol.

Alpha1971 wrote:Wonder what team Evan could help and fit in with the most, once he is moved ? He is a good guy. Hope he lands on his feet.

Either he gets traded with draft picks as salary filler or he's released at the deadline. Or he can have a Duncan Robinson like resurrection.

gradyandrew wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Wonder what team Evan could help and fit in with the most, once he is moved ? He is a good guy. Hope he lands on his feet.

Either he gets traded with draft picks as salary filler or he's released at the deadline. Or he can have a Duncan Robinson like resurrection.

I mean, there is really no reason to attach draft compensation for him. There is the possibility of a trade exception, but in the last year of his contract they can just write a check. Unfortunately, until it’s clear they are not making a bigger trade they should probably hold his contract.

Alpha1971 wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

stillafan wrote:I have to add this, i've been discussing year one primarily, year two no matter how I feel it's successful and that is the bottom line.

But i'm not sure what is refreshing when a FO inherits a team that finished as the 4th seed that season, and yet had 63m in cap and spent it on Fourn, Rose, Kemba and Noel, all negativs.

It's your come to Alba time because you have your facts wrong and need to reevaluate your thinking.

Leon Rose took over on March 2 of 2020 with 5 games left in the season of a 21-45 campaign, good for 12th in the East. His first move was hiring Thibs. He drafted Obi and IQ, then signed Burks Bullock and Noel and traded for Rose his first season.

Second season he drafted Grimes and McBride, resigned Noel Burks Rose, and signed Fournier and Kemba and extended Randle.

Third season he signed Brunson and Hartenstein and extended Robinson and Barrett, and traded for Hart.

Fourth offseason he signed DDV.

Knicks missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons prior to his arrival and have made the playoffs 2/3 since. The previous 3 seasons they won .293 of games, under Rose .531 an 81% improvement. They also have more first round picks in the bank than anytime I can remember.

Anyway you slice it Knicks present and future have improved since Rose and Co took over.

But....lol.

Are you that guy? Just asking, my facts never altered! As I preached to my kids growing up, Lead by example not words, think about it!

Alpha1971 wrote:Wonder what team Evan could help and fit in with the most, once he is moved ? He is a good guy. Hope he lands on his feet.

Spurs makes the most sense. Pop can make good use of motion shooters like him and he can be the Wemby mentor.

DLeethal wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Wonder what team Evan could help and fit in with the most, once he is moved ? He is a good guy. Hope he lands on his feet.

Spurs makes the most sense. Pop can make good use of motion shooters like him and he can be the Wemby mentor.

Chicago is going to want a big expiring contract in any deal for LaVine. Evan’s 18.5M + Obi’s 6.8M trade exception is a good start to building a deal

Rookie wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Wonder what team Evan could help and fit in with the most, once he is moved ? He is a good guy. Hope he lands on his feet.

Spurs makes the most sense. Pop can make good use of motion shooters like him and he can be the Wemby mentor.

Chicago is going to want a big expiring contract in any deal for LaVine. Evan’s 18.5M + Obi’s 6.8M trade exception is a good start to building a deal

I do not believe you can add TE's to a player's salary for trade purposes nor add multiple exceptions to make a trade, so I don't think that Obi TE will be helpful in a trade like you are talking about, that is when you hold a salary longer to use that players money for the trade.
We could have traded Fourn for the full TE before they traded for Payne and gave up seconds if we could combine his TE with other avenues. One of my things about the Obi trade, but i'm very happy for Obi who will at least get a chance to prove he's a good nba player.

gradyandrew wrote:

stillafan wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

stillafan wrote:I have to add this, i've been discussing year one primarily, year two no matter how I feel it's successful and that is the bottom line.

But i'm not sure what is refreshing when a FO inherits a team that finished as the 4th seed that season, and yet had 63m in cap and spent it on Fourn, Rose, Kemba and Noel, all negativs.

It's your come to Alba time because you have your facts wrong and need to reevaluate your thinking.

Leon Rose took over on March 2 of 2020 with 5 games left in the season of a 21-45 campaign, good for 12th in the East. His first move was hiring Thibs. He drafted Obi and IQ, then signed Burks Bullock and Noel and traded for Rose his first season.

Second season he drafted Grimes and McBride, resigned Noel Burks Rose, and signed Fournier and Kemba and extended Randle.

Third season he signed Brunson and Hartenstein and extended Robinson and Barrett, and traded for Hart.

Fourth offseason he signed DDV.

Knicks missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons prior to his arrival and have made the playoffs 2/3 since. The previous 3 seasons they won .293 of games, under Rose .531 an 81% improvement. They also have more first round picks in the bank than anytime I can remember.

Anyway you slice it Knicks present and future have improved since Rose and Co took over.

Actually besides Rose the guys that got us to the playoffs was mainly Randle who carried the knicks on his back. I agree about Thibs, Bullock was on the Knicks the prior season, Mitch was already on the roster, Taj played a nice role was already on the roster prior year, RJ had a great streak and came on his rookie season.

to be exact he did not draft Grimes in year two, that would be year three, I mention that Obi was his first player on anything, you know draft comes before FA. IQ was a great draft pick, love the kid but not getting Hali, well you decide ok?

Next draft you don't mention he traded one pick out of two and traded for a very heavily protected pick that turned into Cam. He then with the second pick took Grimes, very good.

But how come you don't mention the fact that year one with 63m in cap, all our picks,. Two Dallas picks having Randle, Mitch, RJ, Bully on the roster he used the cap on Noel- gone, Rose-gone, Kemba-gone, Bully- gone???? Can you tell me one asset just one that we got back from those 4 signings? Just one?

If Leon did nothing we could have kept our #13 pick, kept Burks, all our seconds, signed Jalen and still had over 25m to use on another FA? It's not hindsight he messed up with the Fourn signing, the Kemba signing and the Noel signings big time

He used his 8th pick and left Hali a very highly regarded point guard in the draft that now is a stud and he chose Obi, that we now have two lesser of two teams seconds?
(Can you even hint at our Leon not wanting Randle and using the 8th pick on Obi when we have searched for a PG for how long?

Rose was an amazing pick up at the deadline, he was our second best player imo, but in a Covid season, and if you look back our team was almost whole the entire season and we played many, many games with our competition missing two-three key players (starters even). I did a thread on this so I recall lol.

It's the NBA so winning is winning and it will go down that way, but here is my question to anyone?

Year one with 63m in cap, a #8 pick, a 23rd pick in the 2020 draft, how did Leon and company do?

My take terrible, we have nothing to show for all of it, then I'd say he made up for it, so hence imo, we lay dead equal.

I have the facts down very well, just depends how you look at them. I know the history, but thanks for the almost completed clarifications missing a couple items.

And lets not minimize the fact Leon took over in March, and basically adding Rose we were a 4th seed and then we crumbled the very next season to landing a 13th pick in the draft. That is not good early on FO work imo. Thank you Jalen and thank you Randle for his bounce back season and not being traded, no matter how anyone looks at that situation true or false.

I'm a huge Knick fan since 1968, met Clyde as a 10 year old, got introduced to Gallinari, I just will not ever be that person that sugar coats or says my kids are the best when it's not true. Love this team, love where we are, want more, we right now have the assets to get more, I can give Leon credit for that, never said differently, but I saw how the DM trade was handled or mishandled which could be a good thing right now, I'm extremely excited for our next move(s) to see if this team can be a true contender and get to the championship game.

I think that is all our goals, No?

Take a break from writing and look up the facts.

2020 March- Rose becomes GM
2020-21 Obi IQ rookies (year 1)
2021-22 Grimes McBride Sims rookies (year 2)
2022-23 Keeps rookie (year 3)

You are correct that Rose didn't sign Bullock. He picked up Bullock's option in 2020 despite him only being available for 29 games the year before.

I'm happy to debate your other points once you get a handle on your chronology.

If you can't figure out when Rose became GM and what the Knicks record was before or after, here are some links:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2020.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2021.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/rosele99x.html

you said Grimes was year two and combined him, I didn't I had it correct, the rest you posted is basic information i'm not debating?

They failed in their inheritance, you disagree, i'd love to hear how? Do I really need to type what they inherited in cap, players and picks? did you answer the question on what we got back in return for Noel, Rose, Kemba and Fourn(to date, seems like we need to add)?

I know the timelines, you got it right with Grimes, congrats, why not answer the question that has been posed, don't need a break i've discussed this for quite sometime now.

First moves, horrible

Leon by getting Jalen, Hart, and Ihart, made up for the first blunders, yes that's a good thing unlike our past GM's.

Now we wait for the next moves that to me will define their tenure with this franchise.

OK? If you disagree that they didn't do well, please educate me and let me know how, i'm all for it. I learn from being wrong, and don't take it personally.

thanks

Alpha1971 wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Rookie wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Wonder what team Evan could help and fit in with the most, once he is moved ? He is a good guy. Hope he lands on his feet.

Spurs makes the most sense. Pop can make good use of motion shooters like him and he can be the Wemby mentor.

Chicago is going to want a big expiring contract in any deal for LaVine. Evan’s 18.5M + Obi’s 6.8M trade exception is a good start to building a deal

I do not believe you can add TE's to a player's salary for trade purposes nor add multiple exceptions to make a trade, so I don't think that Obi TE will be helpful in a trade like you are talking about, that is when you hold a salary longer to use that players money for the trade.
We could have traded Fourn for the full TE before they traded for Payne and gave up seconds if we could combine his TE with other avenues. One of my things about the Obi trade, but i'm very happy for Obi who will at least get a chance to prove he's a good nba player.

No TPE cannot be added to a player. But like I said they have pieces and salaries for all levels of trades Perhaps the use the TPE to bring in a player for the value of the TPE. They have assets for small, medium, large trades and multiple trades. I would have kept Obi until we had his replacement but whatever, it's in the past. Let go of it, it is what it is, let's see what happens

I agree, but I think the Obi trade had to do with distractions as well, I could be wrong but I sat at 5 games last year fans chanting Obi and it appeared Randle wasn't thrilled. I'm not stating this as fact, having knowledge or anything else but just as a possibility, because i'm not buying they did Obi a favor, not how they treated his brother the day after.

But yes we have a ton of assets to trade, only thing is now that we reached the 2nd round there is now a difference in our picks values vs last off season as a lottery team. I'll take being in the second round for sure.

Alpha1971 wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Rookie wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Wonder what team Evan could help and fit in with the most, once he is moved ? He is a good guy. Hope he lands on his feet.

Spurs makes the most sense. Pop can make good use of motion shooters like him and he can be the Wemby mentor.

Chicago is going to want a big expiring contract in any deal for LaVine. Evan’s 18.5M + Obi’s 6.8M trade exception is a good start to building a deal

I do not believe you can add TE's to a player's salary for trade purposes nor add multiple exceptions to make a trade, so I don't think that Obi TE will be helpful in a trade like you are talking about, that is when you hold a salary longer to use that players money for the trade.
We could have traded Fourn for the full TE before they traded for Payne and gave up seconds if we could combine his TE with other avenues. One of my things about the Obi trade, but i'm very happy for Obi who will at least get a chance to prove he's a good nba player.

No TPE cannot be added to a player. But like I said they have pieces and salaries for all levels of trades Perhaps the use the TPE to bring in a player for the value of the TPE. They have assets for small, medium, large trades and multiple trades. I would have kept Obi until we had his replacement but whatever, it's in the past. Let go of it, it is what it is, let's see what happens

I always screw this up. Like you say, we could easily construct a deal. That is the value of the Fournier contract. If they wanted Mitch + Fournier, a young player and picks for LaVine I would do it.

This is where a player like OG would be perfect.

Brunson
LaVine
OG
Randle
iHart

Bench

DiVincenzo
Grimes
Hart
Sims