Nalod wrote:PhilC does not converse. Just makes empty statements with no substance.
Grady, your question was a good one looking for clarity. PhilC uses word salad with a question answering a question.

It's the hot take world I have trouble adjusting to. Someone says something and rather than reflect or retract, they just change the subject.Thanks though.

Philc1 wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Phil, is your argument that letting Hart walk this season, then letting Fournier's contract expire and clearing Hartenstein IQ Obi and McBride puts the Knicks in a better position? Knicks would have 6 guys rostered and about 30 million in space, depending on cap holds for incoming rookies. Do you think the likes of Siakim or Jaylen Brown are going to be available for 30 million when they can get 40 million per via a sign and trade? I just don't see it.

So now that you are going to strawman argue again let me make it clear. I simply don’t want the Knicks to get locked into stupid extension contracts with Hart and IQ this offseason. If IQ and Hart want to give us a hometown discount to stay great — I’m pretty sure neither will do so. We can make the playoffs and get to the second round next season with or without either player. Now go continue to put words in my mouth about luxury tax

Since you're "hanging your ass out" why don't you tell us now what you think would be a fair contract for each of IQ and Hart, and what qualifies as a reasonable "home town discount"? Just so we don't put words in your mouth about what you think they are worth?

Any player with close to a 50 million dollar cap hit worries me lol. The FO has done well building a playoff team without any big contracts. Not sure Butler would be the player. Only because of the mileage. We've had bad luck paying big bucks to aging stars.

BRIGGS wrote:I like the heat over the Celtics tonight. I like how the hear finished off that game and it should continue into this game

I’d like to see the Heat lose. And the entire Celtics team making that ridiculous Jimmy Butler face. The one Butler gave Randle.

Then it’s on to rooting for a Denver sweep.

Philc1 wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Phil, is your argument that letting Hart walk this season, then letting Fournier's contract expire and clearing Hartenstein IQ Obi and McBride puts the Knicks in a better position? Knicks would have 6 guys rostered and about 30 million in space, depending on cap holds for incoming rookies. Do you think the likes of Siakim or Jaylen Brown are going to be available for 30 million when they can get 40 million per via a sign and trade? I just don't see it.

So now that you are going to strawman argue again let me make it clear. I simply don’t want the Knicks to get locked into stupid extension contracts with Hart and IQ this offseason. If IQ and Hart want to give us a hometown discount to stay great — I’m pretty sure neither will do so. We can make the playoffs and get to the second round next season with or without either player. Now go continue to put words in my mouth about luxury tax

LOL Phil! Nothing in the above scenario I painted about the luxury tax. This is turning into an "I know you are but what am I" argument as you have for the 3rd post in a row said I'm misrepresenting what you said. This is what I meant in the beginning by saying "I want to give you some rope."

From what I gather your idea of "salary cap hell" is "getting locked into a stupid extension for Hart and IQ"? What's your feeling about the run the Knicks went on after trading for Hart?

Among all guards in the regular season, Hart ranked third in rebounds (behind Luka Doncic and Josh Giddey) and second in offensive rebounds (behind only Giddey). Opponents shot 41% when Hart was the contesting defender in his 25 games with the Knicks. That ranked in the top-10 among more than 100 players to contest 250 shots after Feb. 10 according to Second Spectrum tracking.

Or how about IQ?

In 21 games as a starter, Quickley averaged 22.6 points, 5.1 assists, 47% from the field and 40% on 3-pointers. He ranked in the top 10 in field goal percentage allowed as the closest defender among players to defend at least 500 shots per Second Spectrum.

These quotes are both from the same ESPN article https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/36092132/offseason-guides-trades-free-agency-draft-every-eliminated-nba-team#ny

In terms of their value to the team, IQ was worth 6.7 win shares (3rd on the team) and Hart .179/ 48 (second on the team). Yes, I'm using different metrics because Hart was a midseason acquisition. The rub is the same, both those guys we're integral parts of team success. Having Hart for the whole season could be the difference between a play-in spot (Knicks before the trade) and a top 4 seeding.

In an earlier post I showed the decision tree for not resigning these players. Basically there is a price point where resigning these guys pushes New York into the luxury tax. I'm happy with an 8 player core of Brunson Hart IQ Grimes RJ Randle Robinson Hartenstein over the next 3 seasons. Those guys should be good enough to keep the Knicks competitive. The Knicks can also add talent through the draft or trade picks and some of those guys for a "superstar." The biggest benefit will come from internal improvement, as Thibs said "Randle is just hitting his prime."

To get to this enviable position (ie resigning Hartenstein IQ and Hart), the Knicks have Rose's slot this summer, Fournier's slot next summer, plus an increasing cap due to the incoming new TV deal.

So rather than complaining about me putting words into your mouth, take some rope and paint the picture of the "salary cap hell" you envision or what "a stupid contract extension" is.

PS. I'm still waiting (2 years later) for you to walk back your "Randle is the worst contract in the league" comment.

But screw ‘em of course.

martin wrote:I'm hopping on the Denver Nuggets train soon!

Be careful. That bandwagon you're jumping on is in danger of tipping over from the sudden influx of Denver "fans" jumping on it.

gradyandrew wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Phil, is your argument that letting Hart walk this season, then letting Fournier's contract expire and clearing Hartenstein IQ Obi and McBride puts the Knicks in a better position? Knicks would have 6 guys rostered and about 30 million in space, depending on cap holds for incoming rookies. Do you think the likes of Siakim or Jaylen Brown are going to be available for 30 million when they can get 40 million per via a sign and trade? I just don't see it.

So now that you are going to strawman argue again let me make it clear. I simply don’t want the Knicks to get locked into stupid extension contracts with Hart and IQ this offseason. If IQ and Hart want to give us a hometown discount to stay great — I’m pretty sure neither will do so. We can make the playoffs and get to the second round next season with or without either player. Now go continue to put words in my mouth about luxury tax

LOL Phil! Nothing in the above scenario I painted about the luxury tax. This is turning into an "I know you are but what am I" argument as you have for the 3rd post in a row said I'm misrepresenting what you said. This is what I meant in the beginning by saying "I want to give you some rope."

From what I gather your idea of "salary cap hell" is "getting locked into a stupid extension for Hart and IQ"? What's your feeling about the run the Knicks went on after trading for Hart?

Among all guards in the regular season, Hart ranked third in rebounds (behind Luka Doncic and Josh Giddey) and second in offensive rebounds (behind only Giddey). Opponents shot 41% when Hart was the contesting defender in his 25 games with the Knicks. That ranked in the top-10 among more than 100 players to contest 250 shots after Feb. 10 according to Second Spectrum tracking.

Or how about IQ?

In 21 games as a starter, Quickley averaged 22.6 points, 5.1 assists, 47% from the field and 40% on 3-pointers. He ranked in the top 10 in field goal percentage allowed as the closest defender among players to defend at least 500 shots per Second Spectrum.

These quotes are both from the same ESPN article https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/36092132/offseason-guides-trades-free-agency-draft-every-eliminated-nba-team#ny

In terms of their value to the team, IQ was worth 6.7 win shares (3rd on the team) and Hart .179/ 48 (second on the team). Yes, I'm using different metrics because Hart was a midseason acquisition. The rub is the same, both those guys we're integral parts of team success. Having Hart for the whole season could be the difference between a play-in spot (Knicks before the trade) and a top 4 seeding.

In an earlier post I showed the decision tree for not resigning these players. Basically there is a price point where resigning these guys pushes New York into the luxury tax. I'm happy with an 8 player core of Brunson Hart IQ Grimes RJ Randle Robinson Hartenstein over the next 3 seasons. Those guys should be good enough to keep the Knicks competitive. The Knicks can also add talent through the draft or trade picks and some of those guys for a "superstar." The biggest benefit will come from internal improvement, as Thibs said "Randle is just hitting his prime."

To get to this enviable position (ie resigning Hartenstein IQ and Hart), the Knicks have Rose's slot this summer, Fournier's slot next summer, plus an increasing cap due to the incoming new TV deal.

So rather than complaining about me putting words into your mouth, take some rope and paint the picture of the "salary cap hell" you envision or what "a stupid contract extension" is.

PS. I'm still waiting (2 years later) for you to walk back your "Randle is the worst contract in the league" comment.

Stick to trying to explain how D-Lo is going to give us a discount to sign the MLE after we overpay to extend IQ and Hart

Philc1 wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Phil, is your argument that letting Hart walk this season, then letting Fournier's contract expire and clearing Hartenstein IQ Obi and McBride puts the Knicks in a better position? Knicks would have 6 guys rostered and about 30 million in space, depending on cap holds for incoming rookies. Do you think the likes of Siakim or Jaylen Brown are going to be available for 30 million when they can get 40 million per via a sign and trade? I just don't see it.

So now that you are going to strawman argue again let me make it clear. I simply don’t want the Knicks to get locked into stupid extension contracts with Hart and IQ this offseason. If IQ and Hart want to give us a hometown discount to stay great — I’m pretty sure neither will do so. We can make the playoffs and get to the second round next season with or without either player. Now go continue to put words in my mouth about luxury tax

LOL Phil! Nothing in the above scenario I painted about the luxury tax. This is turning into an "I know you are but what am I" argument as you have for the 3rd post in a row said I'm misrepresenting what you said. This is what I meant in the beginning by saying "I want to give you some rope."

From what I gather your idea of "salary cap hell" is "getting locked into a stupid extension for Hart and IQ"? What's your feeling about the run the Knicks went on after trading for Hart?

Among all guards in the regular season, Hart ranked third in rebounds (behind Luka Doncic and Josh Giddey) and second in offensive rebounds (behind only Giddey). Opponents shot 41% when Hart was the contesting defender in his 25 games with the Knicks. That ranked in the top-10 among more than 100 players to contest 250 shots after Feb. 10 according to Second Spectrum tracking.

Or how about IQ?

In 21 games as a starter, Quickley averaged 22.6 points, 5.1 assists, 47% from the field and 40% on 3-pointers. He ranked in the top 10 in field goal percentage allowed as the closest defender among players to defend at least 500 shots per Second Spectrum.

These quotes are both from the same ESPN article https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/36092132/offseason-guides-trades-free-agency-draft-every-eliminated-nba-team#ny

In terms of their value to the team, IQ was worth 6.7 win shares (3rd on the team) and Hart .179/ 48 (second on the team). Yes, I'm using different metrics because Hart was a midseason acquisition. The rub is the same, both those guys we're integral parts of team success. Having Hart for the whole season could be the difference between a play-in spot (Knicks before the trade) and a top 4 seeding.

In an earlier post I showed the decision tree for not resigning these players. Basically there is a price point where resigning these guys pushes New York into the luxury tax. I'm happy with an 8 player core of Brunson Hart IQ Grimes RJ Randle Robinson Hartenstein over the next 3 seasons. Those guys should be good enough to keep the Knicks competitive. The Knicks can also add talent through the draft or trade picks and some of those guys for a "superstar." The biggest benefit will come from internal improvement, as Thibs said "Randle is just hitting his prime."

To get to this enviable position (ie resigning Hartenstein IQ and Hart), the Knicks have Rose's slot this summer, Fournier's slot next summer, plus an increasing cap due to the incoming new TV deal.

So rather than complaining about me putting words into your mouth, take some rope and paint the picture of the "salary cap hell" you envision or what "a stupid contract extension" is.

PS. I'm still waiting (2 years later) for you to walk back your "Randle is the worst contract in the league" comment.

Stick to trying to explain how D-Lo is going to give us a discount to sign the MLE after we overpay to extend IQ and Hart

How about this?

Trade RJ IQ and Obi plus Dallas Washington and Detroit picks for KAT

Release Derrick Rose, Jeffries, Roby

Resign Hart to a deal starting at 17 million

Guarantee Sims and McBride

Use full non taxpayer mle to sign DLo

Sign Rudy Gay to a vet minimum contract

Brunson/ McBride
DLo/ Grimes
KAT/ Hart
Randle/ Gay
Robinson/ Hartenstein/ Sims

Lots of flexibility in that lineup because of injuries. It's a stretch to think KAT can move to the wing but that team would be able to dominate the boards in the playoffs.